Machine Gun

KyraDune

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Does anybody know how long it takes to load a fully automatic machine gun? Also, how heavy is a machine gun? Do you think a teenanger could handle one? I'm not talking about any specified model, just in general. What kind of recoil do they have when you fire them? Any other information on machine guns would be much appreciated.
 
Drachen Jager

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Magazine fed would normally be an assault rifle Steve.

A light machine gun, in 5.56 mm could easily be held by a teenager http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Minimi at about 15 lbs. Even a 7.62 mm one could be carried if the teen were very athletic, they weigh 22-25 lbs or so.

Belts usually come in 200 rounds, though some carry different amounts. A belt can be changed in about 2-4 seconds if the next belt is ready to go. Pop the cover, grab the end of the new belt, slap it in place, snap the cover closed again. Almost as quick as reloading a magazine fed weapon.

Recoil from firing prone is minimal. You can't accurately fire one without a rest. It's hard to describe the recoil, but it's nothing like as heavy as firing say a hunting rifle or shotgun.

Look here for more info on various models of machine gun http://world.guns.ru/machine-e.html
 
Drachen Jager

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Also, if you're in a static position and know you're going to need the firepower, belts can be attached to eachother. Each is held together by a disintegrating link (shown below) and it's easy enough to slip the first round out of the next belt and then slip it in to the end link of the previous belt and back into it's own link at the same time. The picture should be self explanatory.

Also note, that most military belts of ammo will be 4 ball (normal) rounds and 1 tracer, so every fifth round is a tracer.

M27_links.gif
 
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ironmikezero

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You might want to consider a sub-machine gun; smaller, easier to handle, and can be reloaded quickly by replacing the magazine (never call it a clip - that's a different device).

Machine guns are in rifle calibers (.223/5.56mm, .30/7.62mm, etc...) whereas sub-machine guns are in pistol calibers (9mm, .40/10mm, .45ACP, etc...).
 
KyraDune

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ironmikezero said:
You might want to consider a sub-machine gun; smaller, easier to handle, and can be reloaded quickly by replacing the magazine (never call it a clip - that's a different device).

Machine guns are in rifle calibers (.223/5.56mm, .30/7.62mm, etc...) whereas sub-machine guns are in pistol calibers (9mm, .40/10mm, .45ACP, etc...).
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You may be right, I'd forgotten about sub-machine guns. That's like a tommy gun, right? That would probably be easier for a fourteen year old to handle. My MC is a little on the small side and he's never handled a gun before.
Let's say my MC is in a situation where he has to grab up a gun and start shooting. How hard would it be for him to do that with a sub-machine gun if he'd never handled one before? I mean as far accuracy goes.
 
Drachen Jager

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If the targets are really close he wouldn't have much problem. If he's never handled a firearm before I'm not sure how easy it would be.

Is the weapon already loaded and ready to go? If so the safety should be on, if he doesn't know how to operate it it could take him a while to take the safety off.

What is the setting? I presume he's in some kind of military setting with weapons like that lying around. SMGs are normally only used by special forces, regular soldiers normally carry assault rifles or machine guns.

If you want to create some tension you could have him hunt for the safety, but hit the magazine release instead.

Also, it's worth noting that on ARs and SMGs, the safety is normally also the fire control, on some it goes from safe, to 1 shot, to full auto, on others there is a three round burst option between 1 shot and full auto.
 

ironmikezero

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The "tommy gun" is a Thompson sub-machine gun in .45ACP, and it's heavy - over 9lbs (depending on stock & mag).

Some level of familiarity with full-auto/burst control weapons is going to be essential if you want your MC to hit anything he intends to shoot. Full-auto and burst capable firearms are difficult to control; consequently, accuracy suffers.

Some think spray & pray works - typically it doesn't, and suddenly you're out of ammo (oops, game over?).

Give some thought to your MC acquiring some basic firearms handling skills before letting him go all Rambo... Otherwise, credibility may become an issue,
 
The Grift

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What's the situation this kid is in? That could help. What time period and why does he need to load/fire an automatic weapon?

When he starts firing, is he just squeezing the trigger, or does he know enough to bring the weapon to his shoulder and align the sights? How many video games with plastic light guns has he played? How many bb guns, paintball guns, or airsoft guns has he shot? These won't do anything once he pulls the trigger, but he might at least know enough to AIM the thing.

There's no getting around things that WILL startle him: weight of the weapon, recoil, and noise. If he's not wearing ear protection a fully automatic weapon could cause hearing damage almost instantly if he's inside a building. Recoil will probably cause him to flinch, tighten up, drop the weapon, point the weapon where it shouldn't go, or otherwise throw off his aim. And with your standard assault rifle or submachine gun, if you hold down on the trigger you can empty your magazine in 2-5 SECONDS. That means, if you get startled and clamp down on the trigger, your magazine is essentially gone. (Of course a Thompson submachinegun could have a 100 round drum, and assuming it didn't jam, that could last a few seconds. But that's a big assumption for those weapons.)

As far as your original question, I have no idea how long it takes to load a machine gun, but loading an assault rifle or submachine gun takes almost no time at all for someone that knows what they're doing and could take forever for someone who didn't. At it's heart it's just fitting a rectangular peg into a rectangular hole in the correct direction. Whether or not the weapon is ready to fire is another question.
 
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Drachen Jager

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KyraDune

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Drachen Jager said:
Is the weapon already loaded and ready to go? If so the safety should be on, if he doesn't know how to operate it it could take him a while to take the safety off.
Click to expand...

A soldier had the gun, so it's already loaded. I figured the safety might be off, since the soldier was in a position where he thought he might need it. Also, the close quarters and lack of hiding places makes me think my MC wouldn't have time to be hunting for the safety.

ironmikezero said:
Give some thought to your MC acquiring some basic firearms handling skills before letting him go all Rambo... Otherwise, credibility may become an issue,
Click to expand...

That's a good idea and I don't see a problem working in a scene like that.

The Grift said:
What's the situation this kid is in? That could help. What time period and why does he need to load/fire an automatic weapon?

When he starts firing, is he just squeezing the trigger, or does he know enough to bring the weapon to his shoulder and align the sights? How many video games with plastic light guns has he played? How many bb guns, paintball guns, or airsoft guns has he shot? These won't do anything once he pulls the trigger, but he might at least know enough to AIM the thing.

There's no getting around things that WILL startle him: weight of the weapon, recoil, and noise. If he's not wearing ear protection a fully automatic weapon could cause hearing damage almost instantly if he's inside a building. Recoil will probably cause him to flinch, tighten up, drop the weapon, point the weapon where it shouldn't go, or otherwise throw off his aim. And with your standard assault rifle or submachine gun, if you hold down on the trigger you can empty your magazine in 2-5 SECONDS. That means, if you get startled and clamp down on the trigger, your magazine is essentially gone. (Of course a Thompson submachinegun could have a 100 round drum, and assuming it didn't jam, that could last a few seconds. But that's a big assumption for those weapons.)
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This story is set in a secondary world (it's a YA fantasy), not ours, but with our kind of modern day weapons. In one scene, my MC is confronted by a number of soldiers intent on capturing him and the machine gun he managed to get his hands on is the only avaible weapon. I had thought to have this scene inside a building, but what you said about hearing damage is giving me second thoughts. I think the scene could work outside, if I tweak it a little.
Initially, my MC had never handled a gun before, but if I take iron mike's suggestion and have him work with a machine gun beforehand, that should take care of the problems with aim and all the rest.
 
The Grift

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KyraDune said:
A soldier had the gun, so it's already loaded. I figured the safety might be off, since the soldier was in a position where he thought he might need it. Also, the close quarters and lack of hiding places makes me think my MC wouldn't have time to be hunting for the safety.

That's a good idea and I don't see a problem working in a scene like that.

This story is set in a secondary world (it's a YA fantasy), not ours, but with our kind of modern day weapons. In one scene, my MC is confronted by a number of soldiers intent on capturing him and the machine gun he managed to get his hands on is the only avaible weapon. I had thought to have this scene inside a building, but what you said about hearing damage is giving me second thoughts. I think the scene could work outside, if I tweak it a little.
Initially, my MC had never handled a gun before, but if I take iron mike's suggestion and have him work with a machine gun beforehand, that should take care of the problems with aim and all the rest.
Click to expand...

If he knows even a little about guns and is prepared for the shock of actually firing one, I don't really see an issue with having him believably gun down a room (or hallway) full of soldiers. In building-to-building urban combat you have a concept known as "the fatal funnel" which is when everybody has to go through one entrance, such as a doorway or hallway (look up "enfilade") and the unit is EXTREMELY vulnerable to even a single attacker in that predicament. If he can keep the weapon reasonably level, he can cause some serious damage. Unfortunately you can just research child soldiers and see kids wielding weapons bigger than they are with deadly effect.

I wouldn't lose sleep over the hearing thing. How many movies have you seen where people fire machine guns on full auto in enclosed spaces and then carry on a whispered conversation? If you even address the fact that his ears would be ringing you would be ahead of 99% of the fiction out there. Plus, the fact is that we have military and law enforcement firing weapons in buildings every day without much, or anything, in the way of ear protection. It's so prevalent that the VA basically has a rubber stamp that awards a 10% disability rating for the tinnitus that inevitably develops.

By the way, I'm not military or law enforcement, have only fired a few handguns and rifles/assault rifles, and am not an expert. I just read a lot and know and work with veterans.
 
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There's all kinds of automatic weapons though they break down into some basic groups:

Gatling gun: Developed in 1860s. Lots or barrels set in a rotating circle and fire one at a time. Very big and slow, (but faster than single-shot muskets). Updated to ultra-high rate of fire for sophisticated weapons systems in the 20th century.
Machine guns: developed in the 1880s. Originally big things lugged about on wheels. Fire powerful rifle rounds linked into chains. Sometime needs a team to fire. Revolutionized warfare in WWI. Browning .50 cal is an example, WWII era but still in use.

Light Machine Guns: Machine gun that can be carried and fired by an individual soldier. Some fire from a magazine (eg Bren or DP28, WWII-era). Some use a chain (M-60, US, Vietnam-era)

Automatic Rifle: a rifle that can fire automatically. Concept emerged early on, but did not catch on until post-WWII. A personal battle weapon. The US has the M-16 (developed in 1960), Russia the AK-47 (developed 1947, the designer is still alive). Either one is light, portable, rugged and relatively easy to figure out. Carries a magazine. AK-47s are ubiquitous, especially in those wars with child soldiers.

Sub-machine gun: Developed toward the end of WWI. Fires pistol rounds, which are generally less powerful than rifles. Examples: Tompson SMG (1918, US), Sten (WWII-era, UK), HK MP-5 (German, 1970s). Not so common with military any more, but still employed by police special-weapons teams.

That might get you started on some scene-setting. Learning to load & fire weapons isn't so hard, but isn't necessarily obvious. Hitting things is trickier. As you noted, you can set up some familiarity before-hand. A group of targets bunched together is easier to hit, especially if they are too surprised to duck or scatter.
 
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