Murder covered-up as a suicide.

stray

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
214
Reaction score
10
Location
Bangkok, Thailand
Website
jamesnewmanfiction.blogspot.com
I have a murder that is covered up as a suicide hanging.

There is a commom belief in the country that the deceased is murdered that if a victim sees the murderer before the victim dies, the latter's spirit will haunt the murderer the rest of his life. The victim is blindfolded before murdered and then the blindfold taken off before the body is discovered.

My question is would there be any sign of this post mortum, stands of cotton fibre in the eye-brows perhaps? Would this be picked up forensically or could it be discovered by a detective or mortician?

Thanks for any thoughts.
 

VeryVerity

I like bewbs.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 5, 2011
Messages
338
Reaction score
28
Location
England.
I don't know what time period this is set in, but if it's modern day then yes I don't see why not. I watch an awful lot of CSI, so I have to be an expert, right? :D

As I understand it the forensic examiners will pull any trace off the body they see and then the coroner will do an in-depth examination during post mortem and pick up anything else he finds. If it's a murder or suicide then they will likely pay very close attention.

Fabric fibres are things that are likely to be picked up, I would have thought. It's certainly believable.
 

kikazaru

Benefactor Member
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Messages
2,142
Reaction score
433
If you want the suicide to be noticed as a murder then you could allow the fabric (flannel or wool maybe) to leave trace evidence on the brows or eyelashes, or even in the eye or damage to the eye, so the forensic examiner would have to find it but the killer wouldn't notice it.

If you don't want the murder to be noticed as one, you could perhaps instead of using a blindfold to cover the eyes, you could use a hat of some sort (toque or some other stretchy fabric) to just pull over the face. Then the killer can either reposition the hat so it's not over the eyes or remove it from the scene all together. If the hat stays, this might add to the puzzle for the police, as to why he was wearing a hat, or if the victim habitually wore a hat, it wouldn't cause any notice which would make the murder harder to "diagnose".
 

dirtsider

Not so new, really
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 8, 2008
Messages
2,056
Reaction score
166
I seem to recall there being a differences in how a noose digs into the victim's neck that could tip off a medical examiner as to whether a hanging was murder or suicide. You might want to look into that.

Also, if the killer is going to go into such detail as to blindfold a person to keep the victim from seeing them, what's to stop the victim from fighting the killer? I'm sure there would be defensive wounds if the victim is fighting his captor, i.e. bruises, cuts/scrapes, hand marks on the victim's arms, etc. And if they're drugged, wouldn't said drugs show up in a drug test?
 

stray

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jun 17, 2011
Messages
214
Reaction score
10
Location
Bangkok, Thailand
Website
jamesnewmanfiction.blogspot.com
Thanks for all your input.

Like most victims this one knows the killer and is in a relationship with him. The blindfold will be used in a kind of sex game, hence the lack of fighting back, defence wounds etc. The police want to find a suicide rather than a murder and the investigator suspects that there is more too it. The fabric strands should prove this.

If there's anything I've overlooked please advise.

Thanks again.
 

Shakesbear

knows a hawk from a handsaw
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 4, 2008
Messages
3,628
Reaction score
463
Location
Elsinore
What dirtsider said about how the noose digs into the victims neck. Also the position of the rope knot.
 

jclarkdawe

Feeling lucky, Query?
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
10,297
Reaction score
3,861
Location
New Hampshire
First off you need to understand that a proper hanging involves a significant drop in order that the body reaches sufficient speed to snap the neck. Most suicides involve a minimal drop which results in slow strangulation of the person.

To do a proper hanging, the knot has to be somewhat substantial and arranged behind one of the ears, usually the right. The rope actually hangs slack when the victim is standing, and as well as the vertical pulling up short that occurs when the rope runs out, there's also the knot slamming against the side of the neck where the spine is located. The position of the knot is very natural for a person standing behind the victim and very difficult for a suicide to mimic.

Drop length is very important, with the drop being too short resulting in strangulation and significant time (minutes) before death to if the drop is too long the head being pulled off (effective but crude). As a murderer, you don't want to be sitting around waiting for the victim to slowly die.

An alternative form of hanging is standing the victim on the ground and running the victim up a tree. This was basically the approach used in the British Navy. Here you again want slack in the rope if you want a quick kill. The idea is to get running fast enough so that when the killer hits the end of the slack, a sudden shock is transmitted to the victim's neck, making the neck more likely to snap. If the victim is uncooperative (won't stand still) or you want the victim to suffer, you bring the victim slowly off the ground, again causing death by strangulation rather than the neck snapping. This type of hanging is virtually impossible for a suicide to mimic.

Suicides use very short drops, such as a chair. The process is gradual, taking several minutes. The knot is frequently placed in front of the ears, where it won't affect the spine, but will affect the throat (which is what you want to obstruct).

Suicides may or may not tie their hands, but even if their hands are tied, the knotting is very different from someone else tying their hands. Murderers will almost always tie the person's hands. This is needed both for the preparation stage as a person with untied hands is more of a problem to subdue enough to hang. Further, if the drop is insufficient to result in immediate death, someone with untied hands to grab the rope, pulling themselves upwards and reduce the rope's pressure. They can stay alive for a significant amount of time, until the arms become exhausted. Because of the desperation factor on the part of the victim, this means the victim could survive for half an hour or more.

The result is that a murder and a suicide look different in the details. Depending upon the expertise of the police and the medical examiner, you can tell. Most of the time relatively easily. But some can be very close calls.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe
 

MarkEsq

Clever title pending.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
3,711
Reaction score
1,139
Age
56
Location
In the wilds of Texas. Actually, the liberal oasi
I want to echo what Jim said. If you're looking to fake a murder as a suicide, there are much better ways. It's very very hard to realistically pull this off.

As to your original question, it's very unlikely that a blindfold will leave trace evidence that would be discovered and tested.

Thinking about it, if you are incorporating sex games, you could read about auto-erotic asphyxiation. That might get you there. So to speak. :)
 

Callista Melaney

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 7, 2011
Messages
152
Reaction score
12
Location
Arizona
I just thought I'd say that a lot of the technology in shows like CSI used for forensic analysis don't exist, and they do a lot of crazy, super-detailed testing. Sure, it's improbable that a blindfold would leave behind a traceable quantity of fibers, but that doesn't mean impossible. The writers of CSI take that possibility and run with it, so why can't you? :)
 

debirlfan

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
273
Reaction score
22
Oddly, there's a case that's been in the news in the last couple weeks - you can read some of it here:

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20525863,00.html

Police are saying it was a suicide, but nobody else believes it - her hands and feet were bound, she was naked (supposedly rare among female suicides) and she'd been hit in the head.... strange case.
 

Mac H.

Board Visitor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 16, 2005
Messages
2,812
Reaction score
406
Heck - when the young lady LaVena Johnson was found dead with a broken nose, black eye, loose teeth, burns from a corrosive chemical on her genitals and a bullet in the head .. that was deemed a suicide by the powers-that-be.

If people don't want to know the truth they are willing to overlook everything.

Mac
 

jaksen

Caped Codder
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 6, 2010
Messages
5,117
Reaction score
526
Location
In MA, USA, across from a 17th century cemetery
The way a person ties him/herself up is one of the determining factors in whether it's a murder or suicide. Supposedly you can tie yourself up and hang yourself, and an expert can decide (conclude) if the person tied themselves up or someone else did. In one recent case they did a sort of re-enactment and a woman of the same size was able to tie herself up just as the suicide victim did. (The re-enactor had no previous experience in tying knots, etc.)

Well, that's what I heard. That's what I read. I do think it's an area where the public at large will make a lot of quick assumptions, such as: omg how can a person tie themselves up AND hang themselves, but there were also other factors involved, such as time of death, the note left on the wall, etc.

One other thing: I heard an expert in this area say that some suicides will tie themselves up so they can't back out at the last minute. This information was gleaned from would-be suicides who were saved and asked why they tied themselves up. I had a student who did this, btw, and hung herself from a tree in the woods behind her house.
 
Last edited:

Archerbird

Nightowl
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 23, 2011
Messages
1,598
Reaction score
335
Also, if the killer is going to go into such detail as to blindfold a person to keep the victim from seeing them, what's to stop the victim from fighting the killer? I'm sure there would be defensive wounds if the victim is fighting his captor, i.e. bruises, cuts/scrapes, hand marks on the victim's arms, etc. And if they're drugged, wouldn't said drugs show up in a drug test?

That would depend on the drug.

Jim Clark-Dawe

If I didn't know any better, I would be terrified by you. ;)


I just thought I'd say that a lot of the technology in shows like CSI used for forensic analysis don't exist :)

This^. You may want to research a little before you use technology that aren't really used/don't exist. Some of the stuff they do on the CSIs are really out there.

I'm not 100% sure (perhaps JCD knows), but if you keep the victim blindfolded long enough (and the cloth is tight enough), livor mortis might show that something was there. But maybe that would make things a little too obvious?

Anyway, good luck.
 
Last edited:

jclarkdawe

Feeling lucky, Query?
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
10,297
Reaction score
3,861
Location
New Hampshire
I'm not 100% sure (perhaps JCD knows), but if you keep the victim blindfolded long enough (and the cloth is tight enough), livor mortis might show that something was there. But maybe that would make things a little too obvious?

Anyway, good luck.

I think this is going to be a big 'it depends' situation.

Technically, livor mortis is the blood pooling in the body as a result of gravity. This is different from bruising signs that occur either pre- or post-death. However, something such as a binding or pressure point will affect livor mortis. This would be similar to moving the body after death. Livor mortis does not show up until three or more hours after death.

A blindfold could cause bruising, especially if tied too tightly. Bruising would likely be in the back of the head from the knot and around the eye orbits. I've never heard of it, but it's possible. The knot in the back of the head, unless the person shaved the head, would not be very noticeable and could easily be missed in an autopsy. Eye orbits tend to be protected by the scalp during blind-folding. Try it on yourself and see where the points of contact are.

Other signs you might see is hair in disarray from removing the blindfold, and eye makeup might be disturbed during the process. Neither would be terribly conclusive, though, and would be hard to take seriously by a jury. ("So, doctor, you conclude she was wearing a blind-fold because her eye-liner was mess up? Is that what you really want to say?")

I think it would be very hard to conclude definitively that a person had been wearing a blindfold before their death.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe
 

debirlfan

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
273
Reaction score
22
If the fabric was relatively coarse, and the murderer was rushed/rough, perhaps it scrapes her face enough to cause an abrasion?

Probably not enough for a jury, but if I understand correctly, you're just looking for something odd enough to make your cop suspicious/look a little further?

Humm, just thought of something. Can you arrange to have the victim and murderer outside in the daytime for awhile before he kills her (maybe having sex?) If she's very light skinned and the sun is strong, she might start to sunburn around the blindfold....
 
Last edited: