A Work that didn't Work

Undercover · Aug 28, 2011

Just recently I was released from my contract with my agent. It was for six months and during those months she pitched it to about 7 places. I had submitted it before I connected with her, and after got one of those submissions interested. So I told my agent about it and she persued it because there was infact an advance.

Turns out, the seven places that she submitted to all declined...but the one I submitted to and got my agent involved in, gave an offer. Well that's when she "released" me of her contract because the advance was too low for her to work with, so she said pretty much good-bye and good luck.

I know in my heart she could have done more for me, but she even said she was stepping down from the agency thing, so there.

I'm not taking the deal either cause I still feel it can do better. But here's the thing...when I did my first agent hunt, I sent out to like umm 80 some agents...yeah, I know, bad. Well I don't think I should shop it again until I figure out how to juice it up first. I'm worried because it's a little tiny 35K YA novel. I think that hada lot to do with my rejection. I think even one of the declining editors even said, was really good but (that dreaded but) it needed more character development.

Anyways...the good news is that I have another YA novel, this one is 52K, my best work yet, (in my momma's opinion which is totally bias...and maybe bs but anyways) I was able to get three bites! Two agents wanted the first 50 pages and one wanted the full, and that was all last week. One had asked about other projects so I told him. But I was wondering, do you think they may be interested in my first YA, the one that bombed out? I have a feeling they are going to say no because the word count for some reason. Should I try pumping it up more?

I don't know. They could all decline I suppose, but it gave me hope again. Just worried about my first YA since it was worked and reworked and shopped around quite a bit.

Stacia Kane · Aug 28, 2011

Lmc71775 said:
I have a feeling they are going to say no because the word count for some reason. Should I try pumping it up more?

They're not going to say no because of the word count; they're going to say no because the book has already been shopped to and declined by all the major houses. It can't be resubmitted there. Sorry.

Undercover · Aug 28, 2011

Stacia Kane said:
They're not going to say no because of the word count; they're going to say no because the book has already been shopped to and declined by all the major houses. It can't be resubmitted there. Sorry.

It wasn't shopped to "all" the major publishers, just 7 of them. Or maybe there is just 7, I don't know. But there are in fact other wonderful publishers out there that hasn't seen it yet. What about them? There is two in particular that I feel may be a good fit too, for my genre too.

I just think my agent could have done more. They always say everything happens for a reason. It's just ironic that it's happening while I shop another one of my books.

firedrake · Aug 28, 2011

Perhaps the best thing to do is set the first book aside and move on and concentrate on the next one.

Just a thought.

ChaosTitan · Aug 28, 2011

firedrake said:
Perhaps the best thing to do is set the first book aside and move on and concentrate on the next one.

Just a thought.

This x 20.

Put the shopped novel away for now. Concentrate on making the new YA the best possible book you can. Write a fantastic query, target your agents, and start submitting again.

Maybe down the road, if this new book sells, you can bring up the old manuscript. But for now, the best thing to do is look forward. Don't keep glancing at back at what you've already done. Put this bad agent experience behind you and call it a learning experience.

Undercover · Aug 28, 2011

Yeah, thanks guys. I believe you got the right idea. I have another (third YA that's halfway done, but stalled over the summer right in the middle of it all) Perhaps I can open that up again?

I printed out the first chapter of the old one, then printed out the this stalled one and was teetering on which to work on more. I'm just gonna go with the third one that's not even finished yet. thanks for pointing me in the right direction guys, much appreciate.

amyashley · Aug 28, 2011

Lisa, I have to agree with the others. Go with the third book. You've learned how to beef up a work and make it what it needs to be.

Setting that first book aside doesn't mean that the ideas in it won't get used someday. The characters there may drift into other novels, the subplots may be stolen. Nothing is ever wasted because you have learned.

Also, and I know this from experience, there is nothing wrong with coming back to a novel that has been sitting. You'll be fine with that 3rd book.

defcon6000 · Aug 28, 2011

Sorry to hear about the agent, Lisa. :Hug2:

I agree with the others, working on new projects always helps, just keep yourself busy. I set aside my first novel as well, mostly because it's terribad, haha. But with each new project I commit to, I improve and hopefully, I'll be able to write a kick-ass revision of previous novel, or recycle it into something better. Nothing is ever wasted.

Filigree · Aug 28, 2011

It's a hard choice, Lisa, but I agree with everyone else. Move that first novel lower on your list. Concentrate on your newer work, which you feel better about, anyway.

When you have some time and distance from the first novel, go back and look at it objectively, for ways it might be both tightened and enriched. You've already had hints that you need more character development, so consider that. A few scenes of development that also help the plot will probably give you at least another 5K to 8K.

This reads like a case of taking the wrong agent from the start: she was already getting tired of the agenting game, she didn't shop your work with as much study and enthusiasm as she might have, and she ended by going with a publisher who offered too low. I wonder how successful an agent she was, before she decided to get out of the business?

Don't give up! The right agent is out there. The bites you've had on the newest project indicate that you're ready. Maybe a new agent can look at the first novel sometime and give you possibilities, but for now, look away from it.

Jamesaritchie · Aug 28, 2011

You're much, much better off without that agents. She has no business sense at all. If the publisher who made an offer is reputable, grab it. Size of the advance is the least important thing in the world, except to agents who are more bottom line conscious that writer career conscious.

Books turned down by all the major publishers, but then find a home with a tiny but reputable publisher with a small advance can still become massive bestsellers, and launch a writer's career.

You don't always get to start at the top, but you can start at the bottom and still climb to teh top very rapidly.

Ferret · Aug 28, 2011

I would seriously consider going with the offer you have, unless you have a problem with the publisher. Hopefully, this new book will land you an agent--one who's really dedicated to you--and you can get an even better deal on this one. All things considered, you're not in a bad position.

Filigree · Aug 28, 2011

In this situation, I'd want to know how much of a contractual hold the first publisher wants on your other works. I'd want their sales records, their standing in the industry -- you know the drill. Do you want them to own your first book?

A new agent might want to shop your new work to a different publisher. In fact, they probably will, given that low advance. If it were my first book, I'd stand my ground and not take the offer. Especially if you're getting partial requests on newer work, and you're happier with the new stuff.

Jumping at a low advance because it was the only publisher willing to say 'yes' might actually harm your career in the long run. You can always re-write the first book, to address the issues raised by other agents and editors.

Repairing early career mistakes is much, much harder than simply waiting and engineering better opportunities.

happywritermom · Aug 28, 2011

Ditto what Filigree wrote.
Patience.
That first novel will have its day.

Filigree · Aug 28, 2011

You might even find that, once you take a little time from it, that first novel will come roaring back and virtually rewrite itself. After all, it will still be percolating in the back of your mind, while you work on the newer stuff.

Old Hack · Aug 29, 2011

Who is the publisher who has offered? I'd be very interested to know.

Undercover · Aug 29, 2011

I'm not going to mention what publisher, sorry. But I will say the small advance and the percentage (minus everyone's take) plus the extensive editing they want (whatever that may be) and not knowing whether it will be in print and the fact that I didn't hear many good things about it, from here (in Bewares) plus the fact that they spelled my title wrong (or is that what they want) and the fact that they spelled my NAME wrong, I am not going to go with them.

It was a poor contract. That's why my agent walked away and that's why I doing the same.

I opened the third one up and am having a hard time even reading it. I just have so much on my mind it isn't even funny. I just want to get passed this.

Thanks everyone for your input.

Old Hack · Aug 29, 2011

If the publisher concerned got a bad rap in BR&BC then you're almost certainly doing the right thing it walking away from the deal, regardless of what else has happened. It's a shame you didn't mention that sooner as it would have simplified this whole conversation.

Anyway. Onward and upward.

Undercover · Aug 29, 2011

It's a shame you didn't mention that sooner as it would have simplified this whole conversation.

Sorry bout that. What can I say, I'm a mystery/suspense writer, I like to suspend and draw things out. LOL Thanks tho, for giving me much needed support. Much appreciate.

Ferret · Aug 29, 2011

Lmc71775 said:
I'm not going to mention what publisher, sorry. But I will say the small advance and the percentage (minus everyone's take) plus the extensive editing they want (whatever that may be) and not knowing whether it will be in print and the fact that I didn't hear many good things about it, from here (in Bewares) plus the fact that they spelled my title wrong (or is that what they want) and the fact that they spelled my NAME wrong, I am not going to go with them.

It was a poor contract. That's why my agent walked away and that's why I doing the same.

I opened the third one up and am having a hard time even reading it. I just have so much on my mind it isn't even funny. I just want to get passed this.

Thanks everyone for your input.

In that case, I'd say you're right not to accept the offer. Good luck querying the new book, and I hope you're able to come back to this book later and sell it, too!

Old Hack · Aug 29, 2011

Lmc71775 said:
Just recently I was released from my contract with my agent ...

Turns out, the seven places that she submitted to all declined...but the one I submitted to and got my agent involved in, gave an offer. Well that's when she "released" me of her contract because the advance was too low for her to work with, so she said pretty much good-bye and good luck.

So your agent sent your book out to seven publishers, all of whom declined; but before that you sent your book elsewhere and got an offer, but your agent declined to help you with that offer "because the advance was too low for her to work with".

When I asked you who that publisher was you wrote,

Lmc71775 said:
I'm not going to mention what publisher, sorry. But I will say the small advance and the percentage (minus everyone's take) plus the extensive editing they want (whatever that may be) and not knowing whether it will be in print and the fact that I didn't hear many good things about it, from here (in Bewares) plus the fact that they spelled my title wrong (or is that what they want) and the fact that they spelled my NAME wrong, I am not going to go with them.

So when you looked that publisher up in Bewares here you found out that they probably weren't a good publisher and you'd be better off without them.

Did it not occur to you to check them out before you submitted?

Could it be that your agent wasn't prepared to help you with that contract because she realised that the publisher wasn't a good one, and that if you wanted to be published by them that perhaps you weren't the sort of client she could work with?

Do you really think that a publisher wanting "extensive editing" on a book is a reason to reject the publisher's offer? It's only a bad thing if you aren't capable of doing the work required, or if the publisher asks you to pay for the editing: but on its own there's nothing wrong with it.

It was a poor contract. That's why my agent walked away and that's why I doing the same.

So your agent "walked away" because you were offered a poor contract? Are you sure? Because earlier you said,

she "released" me of her contract because the advance was too low for her to work with,

That's a different thing entirely.

Lmc71775 said:
Sorry bout that. What can I say, I'm a mystery/suspense writer, I like to suspend and draw things out. LOL Thanks tho, for giving me much needed support. Much appreciate.

LOL? LOL? LOL?

Do you really think it's laughable that you've wasted my time and everyone else's by discussing this offer that you've been made without mentioning that the publisher's probably a stinker and the contract you were offered was so completely unworkable that it didn't even stipulate whether your book would appear in print or not?

You've mentioned that you've been asked for partials or fulls from other agents: I hope you researched them better than you researched publishers before you sent your work out.

Chicago Expat · Aug 29, 2011

Lmc71775 said:
Yeah, thanks guys. I believe you got the right idea. I have another (third YA that's halfway done, but stalled over the summer right in the middle of it all) Perhaps I can open that up again?

I printed out the first chapter of the old one, then printed out the this stalled one and was teetering on which to work on more. I'm just gonna go with the third one that's not even finished yet. thanks for pointing me in the right direction guys, much appreciate.

I also agree with the idea of putting the "old" book to the side.

I saw an excellent presentation by Chuck Sambuchino (Writer's Market, great blog, too) where he talked about having finished projects in your back pocket, just in case an agent asks you, "what else do you got?"

Good luck with the current project. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions or just want someone to yell at you, since I always find that helpful during moments of uncertainty.

Cheers.

Jamesaritchie · Aug 29, 2011

Filigree said:
In this situation, I'd want to know how much of a contractual hold the first publisher wants on your other works. I'd want their sales records, their standing in the industry -- you know the drill. Do you want them to own your first book?

A new agent might want to shop your new work to a different publisher. In fact, they probably will, given that low advance. If it were my first book, I'd stand my ground and not take the offer. Especially if you're getting partial requests on newer work, and you're happier with the new stuff.

Jumping at a low advance because it was the only publisher willing to say 'yes' might actually harm your career in the long run. You can always re-write the first book, to address the issues raised by other agents and editors.

Repairing early career mistakes is much, much harder than simply waiting and engineering better opportunities.

I don't know where you got the idea that publishers own books, but it's wrong. No matter who publishes a book, the writer still owns it.

With reputable publishers, you don;t need sales numbers, you just need to walk into your local bookstore, or check to see which writers they publisher via a place like Amazon.

When reputable, small publishers are very, very often the fastest road to success most writers will ever see. This is exactly what happened to Tom Clancy's Hunt For Red October, and with John Grisham's A Time To Kill. Even Harry Potter started life at a fairly small publisher.

There's nothing wrong with small advances, except that they don't meet an agent's needs. They often work out extremely well for writers.

Becca C. · Aug 29, 2011

Jamesaritchie said:
There's nothing wrong with small advances, except that they don't meet an agent's needs. They often work out extremely well for writers.

Exactly. Much easier to earn out, and that looks a lot better for your future career than a large initial advance.

Filigree · Aug 29, 2011

Sometimes a writer doesn't own a book, James. Publishers can lock down rights for ridiculous spans of time, which can be heartbreaking if the publisher messes up and essentially kills the writer's career with poor or no marketing support. We've all seen the horror stories. It happens less often now, with e-pubs and electronic backlists kept in print. But in the eighties and nineties, there were lots of genre writers mistreated this way. They had to reinvent themselves with new publishers and pen names, or go through long and costly battles to buy back the rights to their own work.

Good small publishers can do wonders for a writer's career, I agree. Sales figures are a small part of that research, but certainly not all. Reputation is a biggie, as are their marketing and distribution channels. This research really should be done before a writer submits to any publisher. And most of it can be found online, with a little work.

Smaller advances are probably the way of the future, in that they're much less risky for the publisher. With a large advance, there's so much hype and pressure. I know a few writers who took very small or no advances, and are now earning out 5K to 10K a month. It will be interesting to see how agencies adapt to that dynamic, over the next few years.

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