Is it Tight Enough?

Boy Wonder · Aug 16, 2011

Hey, everyone

This isn't so much about general editing as it is about specific sentences and how you handle each one carefully.

I'd like opinions on how you rework them. I often find myself going back to tighten wordy sentences and the like, but I linger too long on it. For some sentences, I always feel that it can be written better and I don't know when enough is enough. Even after I leave them alone for a bit, I still think it can be better.

So, how do you overcome this (if you have ever struggled with it)? Do you just hope that after letting the rewritten words cool down for a week, you might be satisfied with it? How do you get to that point where you approve of each sentence enough to submit it as a complete piece?

Any input on this would be great! Thanks

P.S. Forgive the suggestive title...lol

Rachael7 · Aug 16, 2011

How about reading your work out loud? How you read in your head and how it sounds out loud are two different things. If you find you can't catch a breath or you're stumbling over words, then you know it's a problem.

Archie1989 · Aug 16, 2011

Seconding the "read it aloud" suggestion. It helps a TON.

Also, I really liked the suggestive title, and was slightly dissapointed when I realized what this thread was really about

Karen Junker · Aug 16, 2011

I'd like to recommend a book that's the greatest guide to editing I've run across. It's called The 10% Solution by Ken Rand http://www.amazon.com/dp/0966818407/?tag=absowrit-20

dangerousbill · Aug 16, 2011

Boy Wonder said:
This isn't so much about general editing as it is about specific sentences and how you handle each one carefully.

1. Re-read 'Self-Editing for Fiction Writers' often.

2. Mix sentence structures, tuning them to the story. For example, action --> shorter and simpler sentences, static scene --> longer and more complex sentences.

3. Remove adverbs and put back only the ones that are needed.

4. Do the same with adjectives.

5. Inspect the verbs carefully and try to substitute more colorful ones. (He got the newspapers. --> He scooped up the newspapers.)

6. Make sure too many sentences don't start with I, he, or she.

I don't use a checklist for these steps, but I've more or less incorporated them into my editing routine.

DB

Boy Wonder · Aug 16, 2011

Thanks for the input already, guys!

Yes, the reading aloud is a big help. At the least, I can hear if it's fluid. I suppose part of my problem is in terms of imagery? I'll have a sentence to describe X but then think it can be said in a better way?

Maybe I'm just never satisfied with the picture I paint, knowing it can be tweaked just a bit more (and more, and more) until it's as close to ideal as it can get.

@Karen: Thanks for the link. I'm looking at the reviews now

@Archie: lol Sorry for the dissapointment on the title!

RobJ · Aug 16, 2011

Write and revise. Write and revise. Write and revise. With experience, you should begin to write a tighter first draft as it becomes second nature.

Boy Wonder · Aug 16, 2011

dangerousbill said:
1. Re-read 'Self-Editing for Fiction Writers' often.

2. Mix sentence structures, tuning them to the story. For example, action --> shorter and simpler sentences, static scene --> longer and more complex sentences.

3. Remove adverbs and put back only the ones that are needed.

4. Do the same with adjectives.

5. Inspect the verbs carefully and try to substitute more colorful ones. (He got the newspapers. --> He scooped up the newspapers.)

6. Make sure too many sentences don't start with I, he, or she.

I don't use a checklist for these steps, but I've more or less incorporated them into my editing routine.

DB

Thank you for this

A little step-by-step idea might be the way to go. I might just be thinking about it all at once and it makes my mind a mess when I try to edit.

I actually never knew of number 6 before. Why is it a good idea to avoid those? I'm curious now!

Thanks again for all the help already~

elisadasilva · Aug 16, 2011

That's what she said.

Sorry, I couldn't resist.

Victoria · Aug 16, 2011

Archie1989 said:
Also, I really liked the suggestive title, and was slightly dissapointed when I realized what this thread was really about

Yeah, for a second I thought I had strayed into the erotica forum.

n3onkn1ght · Aug 16, 2011

Here's a bit of my thought process when tightening a manuscript. Let's start with a sample sentence:

"The young boy in the pajamas was running towards the fence excitedly until he got close enough to grasp the iron bars and was sticking his face between them to gawp at the passers-by."

A mouthful, right?

First, figure out the root of the sentence. Strip it down to its subject and verb.

"The boy ran."

Preceding this sentence, my imaginary manuscript already described the boy as twelve and as wearing pajamas, so "Young boy in the pajamas" is majorly redundant. I cut it out. Only use these if necessary to describe or elucidate.

Also, use active verbage as much as possible, which cuts out one-and-a-half words.

*

Next, see if there's any information you need to express that informs the scene before the subject/verb, and put it there. For example, "Excited, the boy ran." which gets rid of that awkward adverb.

*

Then discern the object of the sentence: "Excited, the boy ran to the fence."

"To" is preferable to "toward" because it implies he reaches the fence without needing another line. Economy in action.

*

That sentence is now concise and compact enough, so start a new one: "He grasped."

Direct object: "He grasped the iron bars." Since I've haven't explained the fence is iron, the adjective can stay.

*

The five-word sentence is definitely short enough that I could conflate some more information into it, rather than have a bunch of extremely simple sentences. The choice is between either two pieces of information, in which I'd use "and" with no comma (unless I want a pause in the action), or the Rule of Three and have three pieces of information with commas.

So I come up with either: "He grasped the iron bars and gawped at the passers-by." or "He grasped the iron bars, stuck his face between them, and gawped at the passers-by."

It depends on the mental image you want the reader to have,

*

So, in the end, I have: "Excited, the boy ran to the fence. He grasped the iron bars, stuck his face between them, and gawped at the passers-by." Two perfectly taut sentences.

Then, I sit back and think, Is there any more information I need to convey? If so, I work it in tactfully as an adjective, such as if I need the fence to be easily breakable, I'd work in "the flimsy iron bars". If not, then I move on to the next sentence.

Repeat until the book is done!

Hope that helps.

Little Ming · Aug 16, 2011

dangerousbill said:
....

6. Make sure too many sentences don't start with I, he, or she.

...

Boy Wonder said:
....

I actually never knew of number 6 before. Why is it a good idea to avoid those? I'm curious now!

...

I suspect it's because you would be basically repeating the same sentence structure:

He did this. He went there. He said that. He wants this. He likes that. He hates this. He eats that. etc. etc.

Repeated too many times it makes your story sound boring and you sound rather uncreative.

To add my own little advice, I suggest you look at a bigger picture when editing sentences, and not just individual sentences. Sentences do not exist in isolation. Sentences feed each other, build on each other and they need to flow together. Even two fantastic sentences may not sound right when placed right next to each other. Or if you have too many fantastic sentences and they all have the same sentence structure and/or length (see above) it can still sound boring when read together.

Boy Wonder · Aug 16, 2011

n3onkn1ght said:
Here's a bit of my thought process when tightening a manuscript. Let's start with a sample sentence:

"The young boy in the pajamas was running towards the fence excitedly until he got close enough to grasp the iron bars and was sticking his face between them to gawp at the passers-by."

A mouthful, right?

First, figure out the root of the sentence. Strip it down to its subject and verb.

"The boy ran."

Preceding this sentence, my imaginary manuscript already described the boy as twelve and as wearing pajamas, so "Young boy in the pajamas" is majorly redundant. I cut it out. Only use these if necessary to describe or elucidate.

Also, use active verbage as much as possible, which cuts out one-and-a-half words.

*

Next, see if there's any information you need to express that informs the scene before the subject/verb, and put it there. For example, "Excited, the boy ran." which gets rid of that awkward adverb.

*

Then discern the object of the sentence: "Excited, the boy ran to the fence."

"To" is preferable to "toward" because it implies he reaches the fence without needing another line. Economy in action.

*

That sentence is now concise and compact enough, so start a new one: "He grasped."

Direct object: "He grasped the iron bars." Since I've haven't explained the fence is iron, the adjective can stay.

*

The five-word sentence is definitely short enough that I could conflate some more information into it, rather than have a bunch of extremely simple sentences. The choice is between either two pieces of information, in which I'd use "and" with no comma (unless I want a pause in the action), or the Rule of Three and have three pieces of information with commas.

So I come up with either: "He grasped the iron bars and gawped at the passers-by." or "He grasped the iron bars, stuck his face between them, and gawped at the passers-by."

It depends on the mental image you want the reader to have,

*

So, in the end, I have: "Excited, the boy ran to the fence. He grasped the iron bars, stuck his face between them, and gawped at the passers-by." Two perfectly taut sentences.

Then, I sit back and think, Is there any more information I need to convey? If so, I work it in tactfully as an adjective, such as if I need the fence to be easily breakable, I'd work in "the flimsy iron bars". If not, then I move on to the next sentence.

Repeat until the book is done!

Hope that helps.

Yes, this was great help! Thanks for putting the time to use the examples. It makes more sense when I can see it step-by-step like this.

Thanks again for all the opinions coming in. They're all really helping!

J. Tanner · Aug 16, 2011

Everyone's a bit different in regards to how much editing they need, but since you've gotten lots of advice about editing I'll play devil's advocate a bit and say...

Don't overdo it.

Your story is about your story, not about "perfect" sentences (outside of certain literary circles where the language itself can almost take center stage.)

Most people can write reasonable sentences to begin with. There are no perfect sentences. So all you're doing is shifting slightly from reasonable toward perfect without ever reaching it, and ultimately you're telling the same story which will tend to sell on the merits of the story more than the merits of the sentence construction.

So sure, spend some time editing. Listen to feedback of your critique group for any horrible offenders at the sentence level. Make a pass yourself. But don't get so lost in editing and reediting and rereediting that you've lost sight of the forest for the trees and you sound like an amalgamation of writing advice over sounding like you. That story is typically all it will ever be very close to the first or second draft. Move on and apply what you've learned to the next story.

(This is a loose interpretation of Heinlein's rules.)

Fruitbat · Aug 16, 2011

Ugh, I do this too. Not sure of your overall context but for me I think it is just a bad habit, kind of a compulsion. And of course it's easier to keep tweaking sentences than to move on and write new ones. Maybe just put a limit on it. Such as, no editing until the draft is done. Then, go through once. And once more after getting critiques. Then move on and that's it.

Boy Wonder · Aug 22, 2011

Thank you very much for the extra input. It all helps!

I'll try putting a limit to avoid picking at sentences too much and keep in mind that it's never perfect.

Glad to know I'm not alone! Thank you again!!

JSDR · Aug 22, 2011

J. Don't overdo it. [/QUOTE said:
I second this.

There's a pressure to make your sentences as clear and as concise as possible. But, as a reader/writer of poetry, fantasy, and reader of other genres, I'm going to say that it can be a detriment to a good story.
I want to know as much about the character/scene/whatever as possible. My imagination is great, but if I wanted to rely on my imagination, I'd sit here all day and daydream about porn or something. I want to know what's inside *your* head.

The character is traveling to a city. Is he tired? Cynical? Excited? What's the scenery like. Is it lush? Desolate? Futuristic?

How do I overcome it in my own writing? Well, like others have said, read it out loud. Have other people read it. Then take their advice with a grain of salt. Do they want the sentence to sound like it came out of a lesson book? The point may still be made, but does the sentence become impersonal and sterile? Are they telling you how the sentence would sound if *they* wrote it?

Escape Artist · Aug 22, 2011

Boy Wonder said:
P.S. Forgive the suggestive title...lol

LOL - I admit I had a "That's what she said" moment when I read your thread title. Although, I suppose it would be more accurate to say "That's what she asked", but I digress. As others have said, just read it out loud to yourself and see how it sounds.

Linda Adams · Aug 22, 2011

J. Tanner said:
Don't overdo it.

Your story is about your story, not about "perfect" sentences (outside of certain literary circles where the language itself can almost take center stage.)

Thirding this. I've seen writers fuss with sentences endlessly (I cowrote with one who did that), thinking that somehow, removing one word in one sentence is going to make a big difference in getting an agent's attention.

I look at editing more as kind of clean up work. It's getting rid of sentences that made sense when I wrote it, but a month later I'm looking at it and wondering what I was trying to say. It's cleaning up confusing pronouns. It's deleting a scene or paragraph I suddenly realize isn't important. It's improving the flow of the story. It's improving the pacing in action scenes. Sometimes it's even about shortening sentences.

Lady Ice · Aug 23, 2011

Avoid tautology:

"A common mistake Billy often makes is mispelling things."

"Common" already implies that Billy makes this mistake frequently. Adding "often" doesn't clarify anything- it just sounds clumsy.

It's not just words that are the problem:

"A common mistake Billy makes is mispelling things. He often gets spelling wrong."

The second sentence is basically another way of saying the first. It makes the writing sound clumsy- as if the author feels he has to say it again in case we missed it the first time.

jeffo20 · Aug 23, 2011

J. Tanner said:
Don't overdo it.

Fourthing this.

The last thing you want to do is edit your 'voice' clean out of the manuscript.

The tough part, as with so many things related to writing, is knowing when enough is enough. A lot of it is just by 'feel', which is such a hazy thing.

Boy Wonder · Aug 23, 2011

Woot, more comments!

Thanks to the five new comments. I'm reading aloud more than I use to. Normally, I'd read after a certain amount of time but starting earlier seems to be helping.

@Lady_Ice: Thank you for the example! I'm looking for clumsiness because I see it sprinkled in my writing now :/

I'm getting that 'feel' going on so I think it's a step in a better direction lol I also don't want to end up wiping my voice clean (who does?)

So, thanks for all the help. I'll do my best to not overdo it

@Escape Artist: lol Maybe the suggestive title brought in some extra helpers that I might have otherwise not gotten.

Thanks everyone!

Is it Tight Enough?

Boy Wonder

in the Batlibrary of the Batcave

Rachael7

Archie1989

Is Published!!!

Karen Junker

Live a little. Write a lot.

dangerousbill

Retired Illuminatus

Boy Wonder

in the Batlibrary of the Batcave

RobJ

Boy Wonder

in the Batlibrary of the Batcave

elisadasilva

Victoria

practical experience, FTW

n3onkn1ght

Little Ming

Boy Wonder

in the Batlibrary of the Batcave

J. Tanner

Fruitbat

.

Boy Wonder

in the Batlibrary of the Batcave

JSDR

wants moar baddassery.

Escape Artist

Plotting her escape...

Linda Adams

Soldier, Storyteller

Lady Ice

Makes useful distinctions

jeffo20

Tyrant King

Boy Wonder

in the Batlibrary of the Batcave