IP Lawyers instead of Agents

If you read closer their arguments are against low level agents who have nothing to offer and to not hand over your brain with a contract.

You are entering a business with business agreements and it's important to know what's going on rather than checking out and letting the "big boys" handle it.

Also, I'd venture to guess that an IP lawyer in Boogerville, TN (real place, unincorporated) has limited contacts in the publishing business, and therefore would have a lot of trouble opening the doors that need to be opened.

Meh, as someone with a lot of business experience (and both the personal and executive level) I'm extremely leary of advice that questions whether laymen need agents or proposes that we substitute in a lawyer for an agent (I admit I didn't read all your links).

Are there bad agents out there? Sure.
Are there instances where an author may have gotten a bad deal? Sure.

But you can always find an example that supports an argument. The real question is how probable are those instances?

Good agents know the industry and have tons of business experience that relates to publishing.

I've negotiated multi-million dollar deals with hostile companies so i'm no stranger to negotiation. And even I would rather negotiate a book deal, licensing, royalties, etc. with a good agent vs doing it alone.

Now, the link made some decent points and had nice bullets on all the things you should know. The more you know the better you will be able to negotiate or recognize if your agent is competent or not. However, that should not be a substitute for doing it on your own.

Negotiation is an argument and you win arguments with information. Agents have more information than you; thus, they will be able to get you a better deal then you would be able to get on your own.

Mel...

There's nothing wrong with having an IP lawyer go over your contracts; my agent has it done with mine, and on her dime.

The thing is, lawyers don't negotiate with a publisher, and they don't act as your advocate (except legally) or your buffer during the relationship with the publisher -- and you may very well need an advocate staunchly on your side (because his/her commission depends on your work) if anything goes sideways in the relationship.

The other thing is that many writers -- Laura Resnick springs to mind -- have had horrendous experiences with agents (Laura's have been so consistently, wildly bad I can only believe the universe wants her to go it alone ) and so their view is colored by that.

Having had a long and successful relationship with my own agent, I'm on the other side of the fence; without my agent, I wouldn't be where I am today, and might very possibly not even be sane, because she dealt with the publisher shit that would have made me crazier than most writers tend to be by nature.

But your mileage will vary. With the Internet and the ease of self-publishing these days, many writers are choosing to go it alone. However, if you want to print publish, and with one of the Big Publishers in New York, chances are pretty damned good you'll need a good agent to get your foot in the door.

Right now the agent still serve as gatekeepers for the publishers; nobody really knows what will happen in the future. But unless you really, truly understand publisher contracts, and have the will and stamina to negotiate a good deal for yourself (knowing what that good deal consists of, mind you), an agent will more than earn her 15%.

And if she doesn't earn it, you can always end the relationship. Though, yes, any deal she negotiated earns her 15%, unless and until the works in that contract revert back to the author.

When IP lawyers get you through the heavily guarded doors of the Big Six and take care of your business post-contract, they'll be a closer equivalent of agents.

The times are a-changin', but they ain't changed that much yet. Keep an eye on the emerging paradigms, for sure. Everyone else is. But no need to shun the agent route before you give it a thorough try.

A good agent brings you work.

A good agent protects your rights--and gets you more money, either on the front or on the back of the deal.

If the agent waits for you to bring a contract, or doesn't negotiate for you, you might want to ask if there might not be a better agent for you.

If your agent doesn't bring you work, I'd look hard at what the agent provides, and what you pay.

An IP lawyer will only advise you on the contract you present to him or her.

That lawyer won't negotiate the contract for you, nor will they ensure that the publisher holds to the terms agreed.

The lawyer won't seek out new deals for you, nor will they attempt to sell your work into new markets. And before you dismiss this, a literary agent I know tweeted this week that on average, her clients get more than two dozen foreign rights deals per book.

Yes, there are bad or incompetent agents out there: but as members of AW we know better than to consider those agents. Don't we?

I think the problem is most people don't understand or respect exactly what agents do.

A good agent understands the industry, has contacts, has their finger on the pulse of the publishing world, knows the value of a piece, can sell, can be the voice of reason, can champion your cause, etc. etc.

I think a lot of writers are misguided on how it works. The typical layman understanding of writing is more or less: I write a great book, then mail it to major publisher, they gush over my genuis, then cut me a check for $100K plus $2 per book royalty, and my book finds its way into every major and minor bookstore. Why the hell do I need an agent?

Mel...

dgiharris said:

I think a lot of writers are misguided on how it works. The typical layman understanding of writing is more or less: I write a great book, then mail it to major publisher, they gush over my genuis, then cut me a check for $100K plus $2 per book royalty, and my book finds its way into every major and minor bookstore. Why the hell do I need an agent?

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Yeah, I think that's right.

A good agent *acts on your behalf.* Because the agent profits only when you profit, a good one is out there looking for opportunities for you.

And you absolutely want an agent with good contacts, one who is respected by editors and other writers, especially their clients.

A good agent is happy to have you ask about who they rep and will wax enthusiastic about their sales

I might also add that 15% for an agent is not that bad. A good one will make sure you get more than the mere 15% he/she gets...

Ask an IP lawyer to audit your royalty statement and see how much they charge you.

In the fine art and commercial art world, I would KILL for representation that only charged 15% of the take. Honestly. Most galleries and art reps take 40% to 50% commission off sales. The good ones justify it with publicity, venue overhead, show-planning, client databases, and online sites -- but it's still a hassle.

15% is a bargain for a great agent's services.

para said:

I have to admit I've always been wondered about agents, why do you need to pay them 15% for the life of the work? What if I don't like them or we fall out? Anyway with all the changes these days and agents increasing their conflicts of interest I'm wondering if it's better to go it alone and employ an IP Lawyer for any contract negotiation.

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Fire them. And find another one. It happens.

Also echoing the Lawyers Cost Money Too side of this argument. And lawyers you mostly have to pay upfront, no matter what good they ultimately do for you. Whereas agents--the reputable ones anyone--don't make a dime until they get YOU sold.

waylander said:

Ask an IP lawyer to audit your royalty statement and see how much they charge you.

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That's a bit daft.

They're not going to know any more about the veracity than you do, and quite likely, less.

Medievalist said:

That's a bit daft.

They're not going to know any more about the veracity than you do, and quite likely, less.

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Which I think was part of the point, no?

Filigree said:

In the fine art and commercial art world, I would KILL for representation that only charged 15% of the take. Honestly. Most galleries and art reps take 40% to 50% commission off sales. The good ones justify it with publicity, venue overhead, show-planning, client databases, and online sites -- but it's still a hassle.

15% is a bargain for a great agent's services.

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This is absolutely the truth. I've known art galleries to take up to 65%.

However, if we look at selling art like selling books, then the gallery would actually be the publishing house and the agent might be your framer.

Agents give a writer market access. In the past, agents and publishing houses were the only way to access the market, so they got away with charging huge fees. Now that e-books are on the upswing, access is more readily available to a larger group of people, and the market will even out in the author's favor -- or so I hope.

However, for now, agents really do give the author a tremendous boost because of their knowledge and connections. Ten years from now, it may not be that way at all.

Kayla G said:

This is absolutely the truth. I've known art galleries to take up to 65%.

However, if we look at selling art like selling books, then the gallery would actually be the publishing house and the agent might be your framer.

Agents give a writer market access. In the past, agents and publishing houses were the only way to access the market, so they got away with charging huge fees. Now that e-books are on the upswing, access is more readily available to a larger group of people, and the market will even out in the author's favor -- or so I hope.

However, for now, agents really do give the author a tremendous boost because of their knowledge and connections. Ten years from now, it may not be that way at all.

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First off, 15% is NOT a huge fee. Especially when you consider that an agent will be able to negotiate, typically, for a larger purchase which, typically, offsets at least some of that.

Second, the fact that access is more readily available to a larger group of people means, to my mind, a greater premium on "gatekeepers" like agents.

para said:

I have to admit I've always been wondered about agents, why do you need to pay them 15% for the life of the work?

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You don't pay agents their commission for the life of the work, just for the life of the contract they negotiated on your behalf. Seeing as they put the work into negotiating the contract, it seems fair that they should earn from it for as long as it's in place.

I've been reading articles from Laura Resnick, Kristine Katherine Rusch and Dean Wesley Smith among others and they make a persuasive arguments against agents
The Deal Breakers
The Deal Breakers Continued
Killing the sacred cows of publishing
Literary Agents and Self Publishing

Killing the Sacred Cows of Publishing: The 15% Myth

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Those aren't the most reliable sources. Their logic is often horribly convoluted, and much of what they say is misleading. Have you read Carole Blake's book From Pitch To Publication? Although it's a bit old now, it will give you an indication of all an agent does for her clients.

Kayla G said:

This is absolutely the truth. I've known art galleries to take up to 65%.

However, if we look at selling art like selling books, then the gallery would actually be the publishing house and the agent might be your framer.

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I don't think the art world is a good comparison with publishing: with books, you have more than one copy of each work to sell for a start. But if we're using that comparison then I'd suggest that the gallery is akin to the bookshop, as both businesses sell the final object to the end user. Bookshops get discounts of 50% or more off the books they sell, and some get that 65% that you mention.

Agents give a writer market access.

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They do so much more than this.

In the past, agents and publishing houses were the only way to access the market, so they got away with charging huge fees.

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Good agents and publishers never charge fees of any kind.

Now that e-books are on the upswing, access is more readily available to a larger group of people, and the market will even out in the author's favor -- or so I hope.

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You're assuming that writers make up the group which determine the market, and they're not. The readers are the ones who fund publishing, and they're the ones who the market should favour. We need to do all we can to make book buying a better and more rewarding experience for those readers, because if they go away we're sunk.

*Takes a deep breath and thinks careful thoughts*

I can't help feeling that we'd all do better to learn how publishing works, and what good agents actually do, before we start suggesting how publishing should be reformed.

There's so much stuff about publishing online which is unreliable, and there's not the same volume of information from professional publishers and agents to counter it: that's because those publishers and agents tend to be too busy publishing and agenting to correct the misinformation which abounds.

It's really important that writers learn to evaluate the information presented to them. To check that the logic isn't skewed; to make sure that the information is statistically valid, and not just a bunch of ill-informed opinions cobbled together. And to consider the agenda which provides the backdrop to every piece. Because there is almost always an agenda.