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icenine
07-27-2011, 07:24 PM
Ross Kemp is now a novelist.
Bloody ridiculous. Random House needs to get a grip.

Cranky
07-27-2011, 07:25 PM
For clueless sorts (like me) could you give us a link? I have no idea who Ross Kemp is and why he's a novelist is somehow a bad thing, sorry to say. :)

ETA: I see that he's an actor and an investigative journalist. And I found a link (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8475683.stm) to the news about his debut novel.

fireluxlou
07-27-2011, 07:27 PM
He most likely uses ghost writers if he is published. Nice work if you can get it.

Mr Flibble
07-27-2011, 07:27 PM
?

Why shouldn't he write a novel? (How good it is will depend obviously). Random House is seeing a market - those who watched his series on gangs and on Afghanistan etc.

He was a pretty crap actor, but I've got to give him his due, he's got balls that bloody clank at times...and isn't above admitting his peed himself in fear first time he was shot at.

If Andy McNab can write a book, heck if I can write a book, why not him? From what I can gather, he's using his experiences in Afghanistan, writing what he knows. So what?

dpaterso
07-27-2011, 07:29 PM
Brit actor, famous for roles in long-running soap EastEnders, SAS-style action series Ultimate Force, maybe a couple of action movies, plus documentary series "Ross Kemp on Gangs" and "Ross Kemp in Afghanistan" -- one of those guys whose acting somehow blends into reality and you ask yourself, was he really an East End thug, was he really in the SAS? :)

-Derek

Mr Flibble
07-27-2011, 07:31 PM
I wonder if the non fiction title he's signed for will be an expose of the time he was married to NOTW's Brooks? :D

Adam
07-27-2011, 07:32 PM
?

Why shouldn't he write a novel? (How good it is will depend obviously). Random House is seeing a market - those who watched his series on gangs and on Afghanistan etc.

He was a pretty crap actor, but I've got to give him his due, he's got balls that bloody clank at times...and isn't above admitting his peed himself in fear first time he was shot at.

If Andy McNab can write a book, heck if I can write a book, why not him? From what I can gather, he's using his experiences in Afghanistan, writing what he knows. So what?

Wot Tank Girl said.

RobJ
07-27-2011, 07:37 PM
Ross Kemp is now a novelist.
Bloody ridiculous. Random House needs to get a grip.
It's not ridiculous. It's business.

Alpha Echo
07-27-2011, 07:47 PM
?

Why shouldn't he write a novel? (How good it is will depend obviously). Random House is seeing a market - those who watched his series on gangs and on Afghanistan etc.

He was a pretty crap actor, but I've got to give him his due, he's got balls that bloody clank at times...and isn't above admitting his peed himself in fear first time he was shot at.

If Andy McNab can write a book, heck if I can write a book, why not him? From what I can gather, he's using his experiences in Afghanistan, writing what he knows. So what?

Exactly. Who cares? If you don't want to read it, don't.

mscelina
07-27-2011, 07:51 PM
Quite frankly, I get a little tired of seeing complaints like this. Yeah, Hollywood bios by actors who are usually too blitzed to walk down the street are a pain in the ass, but I have no problem with an actor/journalist writing a novel.

How could I? Then I'd be complaining about myself.

That being said, seems to be a writer shouldn't really care who else is writing a novel or what their background is. Doesn't matter. All that should matter to any of us is our own stories, our own careers. All the rest is just bullshit distraction, and that's the last thing we need.

Mr Flibble
07-27-2011, 07:56 PM
That being said, seems to be a writer shouldn't really care who else is writing a novel or what their background is.

Funny how we never get a thread about 'Random House is going to publish a novel by a housewife/lifeguard/accountant. Bloody ridiculous, haha'.

Jamesaritchie
07-27-2011, 08:01 PM
So an actor doesn't have the right to be a novelist? High school dropouts can write a novel. Factory workers can write a novel. The drug addict you pass on the way to work can write a novel. But an actor shouldn't?

Many, many actors make incredibly good writers. Why shouldn't they? They generally read more, are exposed to more good writing, and very, very often do much of the writing that goes into a film or TV series.

Random House has a grip. Readers determine who makes a good writer, not forums.

leahzero
07-27-2011, 08:21 PM
Many, many actors make incredibly good writers. Why shouldn't they? They generally read more, are exposed to more good writing, and very, very often do much of the writing that goes into a film or TV series.

[citation needed]

Alpha Echo
07-27-2011, 08:40 PM
[citation needed]

Tina Fey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tina_Fey)- this is from Wikipedia, but I read it in her own book as well - which was a very good book.



While performing shows with the Second City in 1997, Fey submitted several scripts to NBC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBC)'s variety show Saturday Night Live (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday_Night_Live) (SNL), at the request of its head writer Adam McKay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_McKay), a former performer at Second City.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tina_Fey#cite_note-heffernan-5) She was hired as a writer[28] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tina_Fey#cite_note-Levin2001-27) for SNL

*snip*

In 2002, Fey suggested a pilot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_pilot) episode for a situation comedy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sitcom) about a cable news (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cable_news) network to NBC, who rejected it. The pilot was reworked to revolve around an SNL style series, and was accepted by NBC.[48] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tina_Fey#cite_note-Poniewozik2006-47) She signed a contract with NBC in May 2003, which allowed her to remain in her SNL head writer position at least through the 2004–2005 television season (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004%E2%80%9305_United_States_network_television_s chedule).


Michael J. Fox's memoirs are fantastic.

Porsha De Rossi's memoir is beautiful.

I can find more.

BenPanced
07-27-2011, 08:48 PM
1) post about about actor/actress, obviously unqualified person, writing a novel
2) disparaging remark actor/actress, obviously unqualified, obviously used ghost writer
3) snark about actor/actress, obviously unqualified
4) refute
5) rebuttal
6) request for lolcatz
7) mod threat to lock thread, ban everybody, and sell domain name

Think about it. How the hell are YOU qualified to write a novel and Ross Kemp isn't?

Phaeal
07-27-2011, 08:58 PM
I think what annoys people about celebrity novels is this imagined scenario:

Celeb (or ghost) writes novel.
Unknown writes novel.
Unknown's novel is of equal or greater quality.
Who's likelier to get published?

Celeb name on novel guarantees a certain amount of media attention and fan sales. And so the world spins on.

Alpha Echo
07-27-2011, 09:00 PM
I don't really look at it like that. There are different markets out there - there are markets for celeb authors and markets for everyone else.

I could be wrong, but that's how I see it.

Now, I have to admit I've never read a fictional novel written by a celeb. I've read only memoirs, and only those I enjoyed after skimming the first page or two.

Oooh, Chelsae Handler. She was hilarious.

gothicangel
07-27-2011, 09:39 PM
I agree with what others are saying. Why shouldn't Kemp have the opportunity to publish a novel just as anyone else. Or does a high profile career exempt you?

I like Kemp, he knows he's not the greatest actor. I did love Ultimate Force - especially the early series with the actor who was in Billy Elliot [name escapes me.]

seun
07-27-2011, 09:52 PM
From what I just read on Cranky's link, it doesn't sound like he's stretching too far from what he knows or from what he's known for. It might not end up being the best book in the universe, but if he writes it himself, I personally don't care. The only issue that gets up my arse about celebrities writing fiction is when they say they're a novelist and every word is ghost-written.

IceCreamEmpress
07-27-2011, 09:59 PM
I don't really look at it like that. There are different markets out there - there are markets for celeb authors and markets for everyone else.

This is correct. And it has been the case since the dawn of the publishing industry (at least in the English- and French- and Spanish- speaking worlds; the other industries I don't know so much about).

Of course, in the 16th century, the "celebrity authors" were generally aristocrats or highwaymen, but.

On the "actors who are good novelists" front, let me suggest Dirk Bogarde, Hugh Laurie, Stephen Fry, Dawn French, and Harley Jane Kozak.

Alpha Echo
07-27-2011, 10:07 PM
Ooooh...I keep meaning to get Hugh Laurie's books. I love him.

Theo81
07-28-2011, 02:52 PM
I saw Ross Kemp on the One Show talking about his book and I honestly can't remember if he said he *wrote* it himself or not, but he was certainly heavily involved with the plotting. Either way, if that was my sort of thing, I look out for it. He genuinely knows about the subject.

Oh, and what Julia said, too.

shaldna
07-28-2011, 03:23 PM
Ross Kemp is now a novelist.
Bloody ridiculous. Random House needs to get a grip.

so you'red his work then? and you have a stella publishing /writing / editing career and a track record that's longer than a mitchiner novel? in which case you, and only you, are qualified to have an opinion and can attest to the quality of the book and the writing?

shaldna
07-28-2011, 03:28 PM
my publisher publishes several celebrities, a couple of quite big names. The profits my publisher makes from those books mean that my publisher can invest in writers like me.

Think of it that way.

firedrake
07-28-2011, 03:34 PM
I've always liked Kemp.
Given that he's actually been to Afghanistan more than once and spent time with the troops out there, he'll have a bit more to offer than a writer who hasn't been to Afghanistan yet still attempts to write about it. :D

*points at self*

pdblake
07-28-2011, 03:37 PM
my publisher publishes several celebrities, a couple of quite big names. The profits my publisher makes from those books mean that my publisher can invest in writers like me.

Think of it that way.

That is a very good way to look at it.

Jamesaritchie
07-28-2011, 07:26 PM
[citation needed]

The list would be a a yard long in small print, but have you read any of Steve Martin's work? I love it to death. Carrie Fisher's, as well. And Fisher makes bazillions just for writing dialogue for this screenplay or that one. If you want an actor who was well known in his day, and went on to be even better know as a writer, try Tom Tryon. The Other is a spectacular novel.

Every profession has its share of dunces and dolts, but on a percentage basis, actors are the most literate, well-read group of people I've ever been around. Most of them read more in a day that most others read in a month, and many, many of them are writers.

Because the';re actors, most of the writing is in the form of teleplays and screenplays, but novels aren't uncommon, either.

I suspect it's the William Shatners of the acting world who gave acting and writing a bad name. He didn't even know the name of his ghostwriter. Too many want to tar and feather an entire group because of one Shatner.

But acting is inherently a profession of reading and writing.

Certainly far, far more so that the professions of most who decide to write a novel.

Jamesaritchie
07-28-2011, 07:29 PM
From what I just read on Cranky's link, it doesn't sound like he's stretching too far from what he knows or from what he's known for. It might not end up being the best book in the universe, but if he writes it himself, I personally don't care. The only issue that gets up my arse about celebrities writing fiction is when they say they're a novelist and every word is ghost-written.

An awful bunch of writers earn a living, and get their first big break, as a ghostwriter.

aruna
07-28-2011, 08:16 PM
The sky is falling, I agree with JAR!
In general, I find that acting is one profession that seems to me actually helps qualify a person to be a writer of fiction. An actor must be able to identify completely with a character he or she is playing, get into that person's mind, feel with the character -- just like a novelist. I imagine an actor has a very natural feeling for plot, pacing, drama, dialogue, conflict and so on. All that needs to be done is the actual narrative, and the writing itself. But we all have to learn that.

seun
07-28-2011, 09:51 PM
An awful bunch of writers earn a living, and get their first big break, as a ghostwriter.

Not really the point I was making.

whacko
07-29-2011, 04:06 AM
The other side of the coin is writers becoming actors. Alan Bennet springs to mind.

And then you've got a horse pilot like Dick Francis suddenly deciding that he can string words together in a well-honed, tightly-plotted fashion.

Makes me sick, quite frankly.;)

But that may be tonight's cocktail of cheap cabernet and downright bargain basement cider's fault of course.

Regards

Whacko

Jamesaritchie
07-29-2011, 04:50 AM
Not really the point I was making.

Nope, it was the point I made in response to your point. Ghostwriting is an old and honorable profession, and you can't have ghostwriters without people to ghost.

I really don't care who writes a novel, or whether the real writer's name is on the cover. What matters to me is whether the novel was worth my beer money.

If a publisher wants to put a celebrity's name on the cover, and if the celebrity is willing to go along with this for a boatload of money, and if a ghostwriter gets his big break because of it, it's fine with me.

It's the same reason I simply don't care that screenwriters are almost invisible in Hollywood, outside of the writing community. I want to write things I enjoy writing, and I want to be paid well for what I write, but, for me, it's about the writing, not the writer. I knew William Shatner wasn't writing the Tek War novels. Really, who thought he was writing them? But they looked interesting, so I tried them.

After I read the first two, I looked up the ghostwriter's name, just so I could look around for anything else he'd written, but a good novel is a good novel, and good business is good business. I thought tek Tek War novels were entertaining, and I know having Shatner's name on the cover was good business, and paid the advances of some brand new writers.

So what if Shatner says he's a writer? It's no skin off my nose, and doesn't affect my writing, or my career, in any way. It doesn't affect the quality of the books he claims to have written, either.





.

Mr. Anonymous
07-29-2011, 06:26 AM
IMO,

When a publisher writes a novel/memoir is by and it's actually been ghostwritten, the publisher is lying.

I don't care if the ghostwriter/celebrity/publisher is happy. I don't even care if the reader likes the book. If you didn't write the book, then the book's not "by" you. You may have inspired it. You may have provided the material for it. There might not have been a book without you. But the book is not [I]by you, unless you actually sat your ass down and typed out the words (or dictated the words.)

As far as celebrity authors go in general, lots of points have been made and most of them are right.

It's true that many celebrities make great writers

It's true that the money a publisher makes through publishing a celeb book can allow the publisher to take some risks with other novels/novelists.

It's true that publishing is a business and the goal of business is to make money by giving customers what they want (celeb books are a sure thing, because there is a demand for them.)

It's also true that some novels that don't get published would have been published if they'd had a celeb name attached to them, and vice versa. In other words, celebs have an unfair advantage when it comes to getting published in the sense that their chances of getting published do not necessarily have anything to do with their talent as writers.

If I were a well known actor, it might be that my first novel would have been published. As it stands now, it took me four novels to get representation, and though I certainly hope not, it might very well take me another four before I get published.

Susan Littlefield
07-29-2011, 06:46 AM
I think it's awesome! Best of luck to Ross Kemp!


Ross Kemp is now a novelist.
Bloody ridiculous. Random House needs to get a grip.

Icenine:

Please explain where you are coming from. Why is it ridiculous? Why do you say Random House needs to get a grip?

Phaeal
07-29-2011, 06:21 PM
Random House is pulling down big bucks from George R. R. Martin, with his new tome at NYT (Combined Print/Ebook) # 1 and the other four ASOIAF tomes ranging from #5 to #18, so one hopes its grip is currently strong even with this Ross Kemp threat. ;)

Cybernaught
07-29-2011, 06:38 PM
Perhaps the OP's disdain is in the fact that celebrities don't go through many hurdles to get published, so they never really earn their dues by facing a swarm of rejections before that first break. Maybe most of them don't even write the work themselves. So maybe all they're really offering is their name on a book. I don't know why anyone would want to have their fiction ghostwritten though. Hopefully this isn't the case and celebrities have to go through some gatekeeping of their own, but I doubt it.

Though, I won't lie, I've read a Peter Coyote novel once.

Alitriona
07-29-2011, 06:41 PM
I really don't see Ross Kemp as an investigative journalist, any more than other actors like Danny Dryer. Or celebrities who visit places like Africa and report back.

Having said that, I like him and I think he has an interesting story to tell about his experiences. He seems to put his heart and soul into everything he does and have no reason to think this will be different. I hope he writes it himself and not through a ghost writer.

I'm surprised it hasn't happened sooner. Good luck to him.

icenine
09-09-2011, 10:59 AM
I'll ignore the petty personal attacks and respond as an adult.

The big publishing houses are failing, and this is the reason why. They keep putting out trashy, sub-standard celeb novels. There is a false belief that these million dollar contracts handed out to celebs for books they don't write themselves helps the small writer in some way. It does not. In fact, the opposite is true. Only the small press has any integrity. The big publishing houses lost any integrity they may have had long ago when they started publishing the likes of Katie Price and every other celeb's aunt who has a "story" to tell.




Perhaps the OP's disdain is in the fact that celebrities don't go through many hurdles to get published, so they never really earn their dues by facing a swarm of rejections before that first break.

Cybernaught, spot on!

icenine
09-09-2011, 11:07 AM
http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/books/article6941605.ece


In a speech to the Crime Thriller Awards this year, Lynda La Plante implored publishers to “stop spending your millions on this tripe ... on these reality TV writers who are here for their 15 minutes of fame”. Pointing out that Price’s book had outsold the Booker Prize list, she added: “She is a terrible thing for young girls who just want pink welly boots.”

2011 and things are no better

blacbird
09-09-2011, 11:11 AM
I have no idea who Ross Kemp is

My instant reaction, too.

My second reaction, a microsecond later, was:

I don't give a scoop of used cat letter who Ross Kemp is.

caw

Terie
09-09-2011, 11:16 AM
The big publishing houses are failing, and this is the reason why.

Really? Which big publishing houses are failing? Name them, please. I haven't heard or read any news about any of the large publishers failing.

Now, if you can cite an instance of a big publisher failing, can you then also produce evidence that this failure was caused by publishing celebrity books?

Of course, if the first part of the statement is demonstrably untrue, it's pretty obvious that the second part can't possibly be true.

As it happens, a recent survey (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/09/books/survey-shows-publishing-expanded-since-2008.html?_r=1) shows that publishing has, in fact, grown in the past three years.

Do you have information that contradicts the result of that survey? If not, you might want to moderate your rhetoric and stick to actual facts.

icenine
09-09-2011, 11:24 AM
Oh did I hear God speak?

You saying so doesn't make it true. I'm not going to do the work for you. Look it up. Do some digging. Not hard to find the facts. The big publishing houses ARE losing money. Stands to reason if they're stupid enough to spend millions on celeb "writers". A fool and his money ...


By the way, hints of revival are just that. Wishful thinking.

blacbird
09-09-2011, 11:35 AM
You saying so doesn't make it true. I'm not going to do the work for you. Look it up. Do some digging. Not hard to find the facts.

So present some. The etiquette around here generally is that the person making an assertion has the obligation to back it up with linked documentation.

And you'll serve yourself better by dropping the attitude. It's going to get you in trouble right quicklike with the mods. I doubt anybody here dislikes celeb books more than I do, but where you took your distaste for them doesn't wash, near as i can see. Terie's question was reasonable and appropriate.

caw

gothicangel
09-09-2011, 12:07 PM
The big publishing houses are failing.


No, they are not. If they were, the administrators would be circling. I suggest a subscription to The Bookseller.

Here's a few to get started:

http://www.thebookseller.com/news/john-wiley-reports-5-first-quarter-growth.html

http://www.thebookseller.com/news/quercus-plots-become-top-five-uk-trade-publisher.html

shaldna
09-09-2011, 01:03 PM
I'll ignore the petty personal attacks and respond as an adult.

There were no personal or petty attacks.



The big publishing houses are failing,

Name one. Just one, go on. One 'big' publishing house that is 'failing' and telling me to look it up myself isn't a sufficient answer. If you are going to make grand sweeping statements then you'd better have something to back it up with, because we will ask for evidence.



and this is the reason why. They keep putting out trashy, sub-standard celeb novels.

Because they make money. If Katie Price or Snooki books (regardless of who actually wrote them, ghostwriters need to make a living too) sell a million copies then that's profit that the publisher can invest into OTHER books.

Whatever you might want to believe, publishing is a business first and foremost, and publishers are going to publish the books that are going to make the most money, and if those books are 'trashy' celeb books then that's how it's going to go.

How does this effect the average writer? Well, it's great for us actually because more people buying books means the publishers have more money to invest in writers further down the food chain.

It's not just celeb books either, ANY of the literary big hitters - Stephen King, Terry Pratchett, Lynda La Plante, James Patterson etc etc etc - they get big contracts but they sell big numbers, and those sales make profit for the publisher who then invests in less well known and new writers.



There is a false belief that these million dollar contracts handed out to celebs for books they don't write themselves helps the small writer in some way.

See my point above.

I take it from your post that you don't work in the industry at all, well I have, as have many many other people here, both writers, editors, publishers and agents, and I would say that each and every one of those people will tell you that you are wrong here - for the reasons I have listed above.



It does not. In fact, the opposite is true.

And you have the facts and figures to prove this then? Because I'm sure we would all LOVE to see them.



Only the small press has any integrity. The big publishing houses lost any integrity they may have had long ago when they started publishing the likes of Katie Price and every other celeb's aunt who has a "story" to tell.

Here's something that might shock you a little - small presses like to make money too. And I can name at leave five of the top of my head which have published celeb memoirs in the last year - including my husbands small press which is publishing three in the coming year. And the profit from those books, which practicly sell themselves with minimal effort from publishers in terms of promotion etc, will pay for the books he is contracting from new writers.




Really? Which big publishing houses are failing? Name them, please. I haven't heard or read any news about any of the large publishers failing.

Because they aren't. Publishing is doing very well, as we all know, as the reports constantly show.

There have been some bookstore failures, but that has been more to do with their business model than to do with the publishing industry.



As it happens, a recent survey (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/09/books/survey-shows-publishing-expanded-since-2008.html?_r=1) shows that publishing has, in fact, grown in the past three years.

A fact also supported by the increased sales numbers reported each week in the Bookseller, and the increase in number of new authors being signed. In addition, the number of new presses and publishing houses have increased.


Do you have information that contradicts the result of that survey? If not, you might want to moderate your rhetoric and stick to actual facts.

Agreed.


Oh did I hear God speak?

Yeah, that attitude is really helping. Well done.


You saying so doesn't make it true. I'm not going to do the work for you. Look it up. Do some digging. Not hard to find the facts.

Actually, being clearly better informed than you are, we HAVE looked up the figures, infact those sort of figures, reports and facts are constantly the source of conversation here, and given that many of us work in the industry in some capacity, it would be stupid of us NOT to keep up to speed with what was happening in the industry.



The big publishing houses ARE losing money.

I think you'lll find that they aren't.



Stands to reason if they're stupid enough to spend millions on celeb "writers". A fool and his money ...

Which will earn them five times what they spent, so a million spent on a celeb novel means there's five million to spend on new writers, which at an average of £10k a piece equals about 500 new writers that the publisher can afford to sign.

Think about it for a moment, the maths isn't that hard really.



No, they are not. If they were, the administrators would be circling. I suggest a subscription to The Bookseller.

Here's a few to get started:

http://www.thebookseller.com/news/john-wiley-reports-5-first-quarter-growth.html

http://www.thebookseller.com/news/quercus-plots-become-top-five-uk-trade-publisher.html

And this is what we call 'supporting evidence' to back up a statement. Might wanna pay attention.

Momento Mori
09-09-2011, 01:31 PM
icenine:
I'll ignore the petty personal attacks and respond as an adult.

If only that was true.


icenine:
The big publishing houses are failing, and this is the reason why. They keep putting out trashy, sub-standard celeb novels. There is a false belief that these million dollar contracts handed out to celebs for books they don't write themselves helps the small writer in some way. It does not. In fact, the opposite is true.

Well, I'm only talking about the UK here, but:

- last month Harper Collins posted its best profits since 2008 - http://www.thebookseller.com/news/harpercollins-reports-best-year-2008.html

- last month Simon & Schuster announced booming digital and international sales, which offset a decline in print sales - http://www.thebookseller.com/news/digital-sales-double-simon-schuster-international-blooming.html

- Random House saw a very small drop in profits (which, at £44.3 million still seem pretty good to me) - http://www.thebookseller.com/news/random-house-profits-marginally-down-2010.html

- likewise although Penguin saw a 4% drop in profit, its operating company Pearson saw operating profit rise 20% - http://www.thebookseller.com/news/penguins-sales-and-profits-fall-digital-rises.html.

And so on and so forth. For "failing" companies, they seem to be doing pretty well to me.


icenine:
Only the small press has any integrity.

It all turns on what you mean by "small press". Integrity is all well and good, but if you don't have sales then you're going to go under. There are some small presses out there that are doing very well at the moment because they're focusing on niche markets (and in the case of Canongate, having a title on the Booker shortlist one year turned it into a bigger player), but there are equally some that are struggling, e.g. Tindale Press which rely on a degree of public funding from the Arts Council.


icenine:
The big publishing houses lost any integrity they may have had long ago when they started publishing the likes of Katie Price and every other celeb's aunt who has a "story" to tell.

There's that word "integrity" again. Commercial publishers exist to make money. Katie Price makes them money.


icenine:
Oh did I hear God speak?

Yes and She's reminding you that you promised to "respond as an adult".


icenine:
You saying so doesn't make it true. I'm not going to do the work for you. Look it up. Do some digging. Not hard to find the facts. The big publishing houses ARE losing money.

You've been given enough evidence to suggest that your opinion is unsubstantiated. If you're just here to troll, then no doubt a Mod will come along and deal with you in the appropriate manner. If you actually want to debate, then you need to give us something other than your bitterness.

MM

MacAllister
09-09-2011, 08:46 PM
I'm giving icenine seven days off, to reconsider his or her extraordinarily unpleasant mode of communication.