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JennieRose8
07-23-2011, 01:58 AM
****FIRST LET ME SAY THAT I KNOW NOT ONLY RICH PEOPLE MANIPULATE. lol People kept bringing that up, so I'm editing my opening post. I realize that poor people manipulate, but the point is that the richer you are, the more resources you've got. And my male MC's family was rich, his father a master manipulator. That explained, I beg of you, don't bring this up again. LOL *****

OK, I know that immediately probably struck you funny. Please don't be offended if you're rich- I know that not all rich people are snobs or manipulate the system. lol

The issue I'm having is this- my male MC in my story is from a very rich family- his father being the CEO of a major medical supply company. His father is the stereotypical, control-freak, super rich guy and began sharing with his son (Dan) at a very young age how to manipulate, get what he wants, etc, etc.

Dan doesn't pull these tricks any longer. Mostly I don't even expound on what they are, I just hint that this stuff is in his background.

Mostly I don't expound on it because it can come across so cheesy and TVish.

I think for the most part, I want to leave this to the reader's imagination...but there are times when something needs to come to a head. He might be tempted to pull some tricks out of his pocket, etc.

I don't have specific scenario to give you now- except maybe to ask how he could intimidate someone in a round about way. Mess with their mind, etc, etc, without anyone being able to prove anything against him.

Also, let me know what you think of mostly leaving this to the imagination. Wise? Or not?

Thanks in advance.

Jen

backslashbaby
07-23-2011, 04:14 AM
Are you asking for examples of tricks?

My boyfriend was a waiter for a big company owner (y'all would know the company) as he stole the tip his dinner companion left for my guy on credit card :D :D

And the restaurant owner let my boyfriend ask both parties if there weren't some mistake! So busted.

Anyway, are you looking for general asshattery like that or more business-specific stuff?

I think examples would be nice in a story. It's certainly interesting enough that it gets tongues wagging in real life, so readers would probably be interested, too, imho.

Lil
07-23-2011, 04:55 AM
Are you somehow under the impression that only the rich manipulate either the system or other people?

raburrell
07-23-2011, 05:12 AM
(Lil, the OP did answer your concern in her first line actually :))

Jennie, not sure if this works at all for your story, but one favorite 'sport' of a wealthy man I know (not by choice) is to game the courts - basically, he amuses himself by filing frivolous litigation against people who can't afford to defend themselves. Once their lives are good and ruined, he moves on to a new target. I wish I was exaggerating. Yes, he really is that much of a soulless shell of a former human. He's old, his wife hates him, this is how he amuses himself. He calls litigation 'The new sport of kings'.

whacko
07-23-2011, 05:42 AM
Hey JR,

I'm with Lil on this one. I don't think the rich have a monopoly on manipulation. If you know what I mean? And I hope you do because my argument is based in the sober part of brain. I'm a tad disconnected from that part at that the minute.

Regards

Whacko

JennieRose8
07-23-2011, 06:59 AM
Hey, quick post and I'll be back soon- no, I realize poor people manipulate but the rich are more capable of finding things out and getting what they want.

backslashbaby
07-23-2011, 07:25 AM
When you say no proof, are you excluding conversations? In other words, can he directly verbally threaten the person he wants to intimidate and things like that? Or do you mean that he looks totally clean to everyone?

benbradley
07-23-2011, 07:46 AM
Are you somehow under the impression that only the rich manipulate either the system or other people?

(Lil, the OP did answer your concern in her first line actually :))

No, the OP only said that NOT ALL rich people manipulate the system. That's not the same as saying that ONLY the rich manipulate the system:

OK, I know that immediately probably struck you funny. Please don't be offended if you're rich- I know that not all rich people are snobs or manipulate the system. lol

benbradley
07-23-2011, 07:49 AM
(Lil, the OP did answer your concern in her first line actually :))

Jennie, not sure if this works at all for your story, but one favorite 'sport' of a wealthy man I know (not by choice) is to game the courts - basically, he amuses himself by filing frivolous litigation against people who can't afford to defend themselves. Once their lives are good and ruined, he moves on to a new target. I wish I was exaggerating. Yes, he really is that much of a soulless shell of a former human. He's old, his wife hates him, this is how he amuses himself. He calls litigation 'The new sport of kings'.
There's a legal term for people who do that. Maybe one day his name might show up here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vexatious_litigation#Notable_vexatious_litigants
On the other hand, he's probably not so big-time as to be "notable" enough for Wikipedia.

benbradley
07-23-2011, 08:01 AM
To get to the question:

...
The issue I'm having is this- my male MC in my story is from a very rich family- his father being the CEO of a major medical supply company. His father is the stereotypical, control-freak, super rich guy and began sharing with his son (Dan) at a very young age how to manipulate, get what he wants, etc, etc.

Dan doesn't pull these tricks any longer. Mostly I don't even expound on what they are, I just hint that this stuff is in his background.

Mostly I don't expound on it because it can come across so cheesy and TVish.

I think for the most part, I want to leave this to the reader's imagination...but there are times when something needs to come to a head. He might be tempted to pull some tricks out of his pocket, etc.

I don't have specific scenario to give you now- except maybe to ask how he could intimidate someone in a round about way. Mess with their mind, etc, etc, without anyone being able to prove anything against him.
This, especially the last paragraph, is called gaslighting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting), and no you certainly don't have to be rich to do it.

dreamcatcher
07-23-2011, 11:35 AM
I realise this is probably not the direction you're looking for, but one of my grandmother's husbands was very, very rich and he somehow managed to manipulate those he met by basically pretending he was a pauper. Picture this: an old man riddled with polio and confined to a wheelchair, wearing second hand clothing, is actually a multi-millionaire. I recall the one and only present he ever gave us kids was from an op shop. Heh.

JennieRose8
07-23-2011, 01:53 PM
OK. I gotta say something here, because I'm really disappointed. I made it clear that no, I do not think *only* rich people manipulate. Why is it more important to quibble over words than to just answer the question?

Sorry, but I asked a question and wish we could stay focused on that instead of engaging in somewhat of a debate over what I think about rich/poor people and who exactly it is that manipulates. That's not what this thread is about.

That said, I'm going on to answer other posters and plan to ignore any other questions that suggest I don't know the facts about which people manipulate. lol

No hard feelings, but please, let's just move on.

JennieRose8
07-23-2011, 01:55 PM
When you say no proof, are you excluding conversations? In other words, can he directly verbally threaten the person he wants to intimidate and things like that? Or do you mean that he looks totally clean to everyone?

Hey, backslash- no, he wouldn't directly threaten. He'd do it in a round about way- say something that only the other person would understand and would have a difficult time proving that any threats were made.

JennieRose8
07-23-2011, 02:00 PM
(Lil, the OP did answer your concern in her first line actually :))

Jennie, not sure if this works at all for your story, but one favorite 'sport' of a wealthy man I know (not by choice) is to game the courts - basically, he amuses himself by filing frivolous litigation against people who can't afford to defend themselves. Once their lives are good and ruined, he moves on to a new target. I wish I was exaggerating. Yes, he really is that much of a soulless shell of a former human. He's old, his wife hates him, this is how he amuses himself. He calls litigation 'The new sport of kings'.

Raburrel, that sounds like a real jerk. :S But these guys wouldn't prosecute just for fun. They actually want something out of what they're doing. The father would be more likely to pull stunts like this, but my MC, Dan, would save nasty stuff for people who really deserve it- the "bad guys" lol.

I guess what I am trying to figure out is how to have him threaten someone in a round about way- as a teacher, too!!- and no one be able to prove anything. And how can I pull it off without it looking too cheesy or TVish?

(and remember, folks- yes, I know rich people aren't the only ones who do this. The point is his family is rich and his father has many resources at his fingertips to get what he wants and he's passed that info on to his son. lol)

JennieRose8
07-23-2011, 02:03 PM
Are you asking for examples of tricks?

My boyfriend was a waiter for a big company owner (y'all would know the company) as he stole the tip his dinner companion left for my guy on credit card :D :D

And the restaurant owner let my boyfriend ask both parties if there weren't some mistake! So busted.

Anyway, are you looking for general asshattery like that or more business-specific stuff?

I think examples would be nice in a story. It's certainly interesting enough that it gets tongues wagging in real life, so readers would probably be interested, too, imho.

Oh, I'm looking for both. I'm sure some of the small-potatoes games are played just for the sheer fun of the power trip, but I'd like an example of business stuff, too. Dan wouldn't pull any of the business stuff but it would help to provide an example as he's thinking of his father.

Becca_H
07-23-2011, 03:17 PM
I would link manipulation to intelligence and Machiavellianism, not their financial situation.

There may be a positive correlation between intelligence and salary, but I've met extremely manipulative people from all walks of life.

JennieRose8
07-23-2011, 03:27 PM
I would link manipulation to intelligence and Machiavellianism, not their financial situation.

There may be a positive correlation between intelligence and salary, but I've met extremely manipulative people from all walks of life.

Becca, I like you..so far you've struck me as kind, helpful and intelligent. But I've had to edit my opening post now because of several comments like this.

Thanks for your input.

Jen

raburrell
07-23-2011, 03:51 PM
There's a legal term for people who do that. Maybe one day his name might show up here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vexatious_litigation#Notable_vexatious_litigants
On the other hand, he's probably not so big-time as to be "notable" enough for Wikipedia.

Yeah, my boss (one of the guys he sued) actually did get the lawsuit dismissed on precisely this grounds. He's a 'name' (eta: or at least I'm pretty sure that was the grounds. Something like that anyhow. He has to get 'permission' to sue in the future)

Jennie, I'm sorry for the response you've gotten here from a few people - it was clear to me at least that you had no axe to grind with a generic class of people. Anyhow, to that end, maybe the answer lies in the characters themselves? I don't really have enough info to go on from what you've posted here, but I'd say start by figuring out what the one truly important, very specific thing is to the guy who's getting screwed. (reputation, love, a job, whatever) That is what the screw-er is going to want to take away, and if it requires money to do it, that's what he'll use. Lie, cheat, bribe, steal - again, it comes down to the character of your antagonist. Decide what he's willing to do. :)

HTH

Becca_H
07-23-2011, 04:07 PM
Becca, I like you..so far you've struck me as kind, helpful and intelligent. But I've had to edit my opening post now because of several comments like this.

Thanks for your input.

Jen

I wasn't intending to be critical or judgmental, Jen, just contributing. All I believe is that manipulation isn't related to money, especially because I've just kicked an extremely manipulative asshole out of my life - and he's far from wealthy. And his attempted manipulation wasn't just for financial gain, either.

So all I'm saying is don't necessarily base his wealthy background on his ability to manipulate. It's more of a personality trait.

PinkAmy
07-23-2011, 04:18 PM
From my experience with a few rich folks in my family, they use money more subtly to manipulate. In my opinion, the subtle manipulation is worse than the in your face screwing.

For instance:

If you go to X college we'll pay your way, give you a large monthly allowance and buy you a car. If you go to the college you want, Y college you're on your own. (both X and Y college are academically equal)

We'd like to donate tons of money to your organization so that you'll name Z after ________ (unscrupulous person)

My treat.
Save your money.
Let me pay for that.
Here's a nice gift that you could never afford.
I need you to do ________ (unscrupulous thing.)
Your the only one I trust to do ______________. How's your ______ (expensive gift that was previously given.)
~~~~~~~~~

PinkAmy
07-23-2011, 04:20 PM
So all I'm saying is don't necessarily base his wealthy background on his ability to manipulate. It's more of a personality trait.

Yes, the money is merely a tool of manipulation that wealthy people have at their disposal and non wealthy people don't.

JennieRose8
07-23-2011, 04:25 PM
I wasn't intending to be critical or judgmental, Jen, just contributing. All I believe is that manipulation isn't related to money, especially because I've just kicked an extremely manipulative asshole out of my life - and he's far from wealthy. And his attempted manipulation wasn't just for financial gain, either.

So all I'm saying is don't necessarily base his wealthy background on his ability to manipulate. It's more of a personality trait.

Got ya! Good point. It used to be part of him, but he's changed and could not, in good conscience, pull it off well.

JennieRose8
07-23-2011, 05:45 PM
Yeah, my boss (one of the guys he sued) actually did get the lawsuit dismissed on precisely this grounds. He's a 'name' (eta: or at least I'm pretty sure that was the grounds. Something like that anyhow. He has to get 'permission' to sue in the future)

Jennie, I'm sorry for the response you've gotten here from a few people - it was clear to me at least that you had no axe to grind with a generic class of people. Anyhow, to that end, maybe the answer lies in the characters themselves? I don't really have enough info to go on from what you've posted here, but I'd say start by figuring out what the one truly important, very specific thing is to the guy who's getting screwed. (reputation, love, a job, whatever) That is what the screw-er is going to want to take away, and if it requires money to do it, that's what he'll use. Lie, cheat, bribe, steal - again, it comes down to the character of your antagonist. Decide what he's willing to do. :)

HTH

Hey, I'll get back to you in a bit- just wanted to acknowledge that I saw your post. :)

JennieRose8
07-23-2011, 05:46 PM
From my experience with a few rich folks in my family, they use money more subtly to manipulate. In my opinion, the subtle manipulation is worse than the in your face screwing.

For instance:

If you go to X college we'll pay your way, give you a large monthly allowance and buy you a car. If you go to the college you want, Y college you're on your own. (both X and Y college are academically equal)

We'd like to donate tons of money to your organization so that you'll name Z after ________ (unscrupulous person)

My treat.
Save your money.
Let me pay for that.
Here's a nice gift that you could never afford.
I need you to do ________ (unscrupulous thing.)
Your the only one I trust to do ______________. How's your ______ (expensive gift that was previously given.)
~~~~~~~~~

Yup, I've dealt with people like this- and they weren't exactly "rich," but pretty well off.

backslashbaby
07-24-2011, 01:38 AM
OK, tell us about the dude he's threatening. Is he/she a business owner? Does reputation matter a lot in his/her life or profession? That sort of thing.


(I had a really rich, pissed man threaten me with towing my car that stalled off the street by his yard in the wee hours. As I was taking exams that morning, him having it towed would have worked out nicely, and I told him that, bwahaha :) I just didn't have time to do it myself before my exam!

It's all about the effectiveness of the threat, given the situation of the threatened.)

Xelebes
07-24-2011, 06:30 AM
Gaslighting: some links above

Horseheading: forcing someone's hand by terrifying him with the unspeakable. Goodfellas had it where the mob head or his henchman places a severed horse head into a guy's bed, terrifying him into action. A more subtle example would be in the current Murdoch scandal, where News of the World manages to get the medical records of Brown's child before Brown gets to even hear about it. Brooks, executive of NotW or NI (forget which), rubs the horsehead in by forcing the Browns' hand to invite Brooks to Brown's wife's birthday party. Another set up may be getting your hands on a patent, contract, or financial papers and releasing them before that person gets to see them and the plutocrat forces the man's hand into doing something uncomfortable.

Hush money: paying people to be quiet about something, especially bullying behaviour on the bullied.

Con Job: lots of this is criminal, but there are more subtle things. Sweeten the deal with sweet words but always have the victim give up something they hold dear. This is like horseheading, but there might not be any intimidation as part of it. It can totally be up to chance: the plutocrat sees the opportunity, takes it and runs away.

JennieRose8
07-24-2011, 06:31 PM
OK, here's the deal. My male MC, Dan, is a high school English teacher who slowly begins to fall for an 18 year old student (GASP)- oh and he's only 24, btw.

There's a bully in school, the football quarterback, in fact, who enjoys messing with this girl- not flirting but cruel jokes and possibly assault. Dan would be seriously tempted to mess with his mind or threaten him in a round about way. So I'm trying to think of how he could pull this off without getting fired. He doesn't really want to hurt any of his students and considers this kid (Brian) one of the kids who need some sort of intervention. But because of the way he was raised, his mind would naturally keep veering back to intimidation or the pulling of certain strings to keep Brian in line.

I'm not saying he IS going to do it...but what could he be thinking about? What MIGHT he put into action- at the risk of losing his job, etc, etc.?

Thanks in advance.

Jen

PinkAmy
07-24-2011, 06:49 PM
There are lots of ways you could pull this off w/o him getting fired--money has nothing to do with how Dan can manipulate the situation. He could subtly threaten that college scouts might think he's a predator. If you want to stick homophobia into the picture and you're able to do so by being clear that his threats are homophobic, you can have his insinuate false rumors about Brian seen in a gay hot-spot (this will take a lot of skill to pull off, but homophobia, especially often runs rampant in locker rooms from HS thru the pros.) He could screw with the kids grades and endanger his eligibility to play. He could hire a former student to physically threaten Brian (though honestly, this seems more like a scene you'd see in a soap opera than in real life.)

Becca_H
07-24-2011, 07:11 PM
For a teacher, I immediately see three possible routes of intimidation: Grades, bullying, unfair treatment, or a combination of all three.

If he teaches this kid, he can't unfairly grade due to the audit trail, but he could do other things, like claim the assignment was late (when it wasn't) and give him a zero. Set additional homework because he needs 'extra help', when he doesn't - which he can unfairly grade because others might not know about it. He could also 'lose' assignments and various other things.

Then you can have bullying/unfair treatment. So he could pick him up on things that other kids might be able to get away with: Being late, eating in class, coughing, dropping a pen, talking. These are all technically low-level disruption that a teacher can exaggerate into something more serious. The teacher could easily write him up for being a disruptive kid when he actually isn't doing much wrong.

Do this enough times, and he can eventually mess with the kid's head. "Maybe I am a bad kid because I keep getting in trouble?" "Maybe I should leave the football team because my grades are really slipping?" And not to mention what this teacher can say to the parents.

I've seen teachers bully students. These were younger kids (13-15) but they actually had no idea they were being bullied. They were far too young to see these role-model authority figures as capable of doing anything wrong. Of course, try to bully an 18-year-old and it won't work as well.

Also, to touch on my earlier posts, I still feel none of this really relates to his father or his financial upbringing. Okay, it might work as useful backstory, but personally, from my own life experience, I don't think you need it. To be a teacher, you need to have certain interpersonal skills, including the ability to manipulate a class if necessary. I would assume a (good) teacher already has these people skills. It's not a huge step from mild manipulation like "Unless you behave, everyone's going to get detention" to what I suggested above.

JennieRose8
07-24-2011, 07:15 PM
There are lots of ways you could pull this off w/o him getting fired--money has nothing to do with how Dan can manipulate the situation. He could subtly threaten that college scouts might think he's a predator. If you want to stick homophobia into the picture and you're able to do so by being clear that his threats are homophobic, you can have his insinuate false rumors about Brian seen in a gay hot-spot (this will take a lot of skill to pull off, but homophobia, especially often runs rampant in locker rooms from HS thru the pros.) He could screw with the kids grades and endanger his eligibility to play. He could hire a former student to physically threaten Brian (though honestly, this seems more like a scene you'd see in a soap opera than in real life.)

You see, the reason the money keeps being brought up is because he can easily pay anyone to help him. But I'll dash that aside for now and reply to the rest...

LOL @ the soap opera scene remark. I've caught myself veering in that direction so many times. Sometimes I stick with it just for fun- if I"m not really serious about getting the story published. You can really have a lot of fun with your writing if you're not trying to be too impressive. LOL

But see, that's the thing. Anything I choose to do, if not done correctly, will come off very TVish, but I suppose I might not be able to avoid it. What brings it full circle is that so many of our choices can reflect the influence TV has had on our lives. All the drama we invite into our lives, etc, etc.

As for the homophobia thing- Dan might play on that. That would really strike Brian hard, being a tough jock and all. But Dan's also a Christian and not a hateful one (though not agreeing with different lifestyles, he is not a hater), so I'm not sure how well he'd pull any of this off. LOL He might to some degree but the guilt would eventually get to him.

Thanks for your input. You're very helpful.

JennieRose8
07-24-2011, 07:20 PM
There are lots of ways you could pull this off w/o him getting fired--money has nothing to do with how Dan can manipulate the situation. He could subtly threaten that college scouts might think he's a predator. If you want to stick homophobia into the picture and you're able to do so by being clear that his threats are homophobic, you can have his insinuate false rumors about Brian seen in a gay hot-spot (this will take a lot of skill to pull off, but homophobia, especially often runs rampant in locker rooms from HS thru the pros.) He could screw with the kids grades and endanger his eligibility to play. He could hire a former student to physically threaten Brian (though honestly, this seems more like a scene you'd see in a soap opera than in real life.)

OH! I have you to thank. This may be one of Brian's problems. Maybe he IS gay, and being the quarterback is afraid to let anyone know. Aaaaah, the possibilities. Thanks...I never considered this possiblity AT ALL. Man, will this add more depth that end of the story.

JennieRose8
07-24-2011, 07:23 PM
For a teacher, I immediately see three possible routes of intimidation: Grades, bullying, unfair treatment, or a combination of all three.

If he teaches this kid, he can't unfairly grade due to the audit trail, but he could do other things, like claim the assignment was late (when it wasn't) and give him a zero. Set additional homework because he needs 'extra help', when he doesn't - which he can unfairly grade because others might not know about it. He could also 'lose' assignments and various other things.

Then you can have bullying/unfair treatment. So he could pick him up on things that other kids might be able to get away with: Being late, eating in class, coughing, dropping a pen, talking. These are all technically low-level disruption that a teacher can exaggerate into something more serious. The teacher could easily write him up for being a disruptive kid when he actually isn't doing much wrong.

Do this enough times, and he can eventually mess with the kid's head. "Maybe I am a bad kid because I keep getting in trouble?" "Maybe I should leave the football team because my grades are really slipping?" And not to mention what this teacher can say to the parents.

I've seen teachers bully students. These were younger kids (13-15) but they actually had no idea they were being bullied. They were far too young to see these role-model authority figures as capable of doing anything wrong. Of course, try to bully an 18-year-old and it won't work as well.

Also, to touch on my earlier posts, I still feel none of this really relates to his father or his financial upbringing. Okay, it might work as useful backstory, but personally, from my own life experience, I don't think you need it. To be a teacher, you need to have certain interpersonal skills, including the ability to manipulate a class if necessary. I would assume a (good) teacher already has these people skills. It's not a huge step from mild manipulation like "Unless you behave, everyone's going to get detention" to what I suggested above.

I see what you're saying, but my point is that his father taught him to manipulate and how to do it using their funds, as well. That is the backstory, but it's also at least part of Dan's nature to revert to this sort of thing.

he would only take it so far, though. He's sort of split between caring for this kid and wanting to push him in line. ;)

Thanks for your helpful suggestions. (oh and the rich thing isn't in the backstory just because of this. There are different aspects of it that I haven't discussed here)

Jen

PinkAmy
07-24-2011, 10:09 PM
OH! I have you to thank. This may be one of Brian's problems. Maybe he IS gay, and being the quarterback is afraid to let anyone know. Aaaaah, the possibilities. Thanks...I never considered this possiblity AT ALL. Man, will this add more depth that end of the story.

Many a closeted gay goes in the opposite direction to avoid people thinking they're gay. Look at all the politicians who denounce gay people--next thing you know they're caught in the men's room of an airport with a "wide stance" soliciting sex. But being gay isn't a problem, IMHO. Being bullied for being gay or being kicked out of home or being targeted by homophobes is the problem.

JennieRose8
07-25-2011, 05:04 AM
Yes, Brian is afraid of the hostility, the backlash. I'm not sure I'm going to take this angle yet, but it is a good idea.

Hallen
07-25-2011, 10:11 PM
Try reading "The Art of Racing in the Rain" by Garth Stein. There's a subplot in there about a man's inlaws who had resourses and used those resources to get what they want. They weren't bad people, they were just exploiting legal avenues to secure what they thought was the best outcome. They were able to do that because they had the resources to accomplish it. I think it would be a good example for you to review. Plus, it's a really good book.

JennieRose8
07-25-2011, 10:28 PM
Try reading "The Art of Racing in the Rain" by Garth Stein. There's a subplot in there about a man's inlaws who had resourses and used those resources to get what they want. They weren't bad people, they were just exploiting legal avenues to secure what they thought was the best outcome. They were able to do that because they had the resources to accomplish it. I think it would be a good example for you to review. Plus, it's a really good book.
]

Hey, thanks! I'll look into it. Love your Snoopy Avatar, too. :D

gayle12
07-25-2011, 11:34 PM
A manipulation trick I have seen and experience a lot is shifting blame. To quote from an ex:

"I wouldn't be a bastard if you hadn't left me."
(Yeah, he was a winner.)

My biological father (also a winner), used similar techniques for years, culminating in once e-mailing my sister a diatribe complete with a lot of awful name-calling. When she responded to tell him off (as he was expecting her to), he swore up and down his e-mail had been hacked, and it wasn't his fault. I still think he's full of crap.

It's all about charm + manipulation. I think your MC's dad needs to be very charming on the service, as people will forgive a lot if someone is charming or can fake a good apology or excuse. If he's just an out-and-out bastard, it'll be harder for anyone to believe that he's gotten anything past anyone ever.

Hope this helps!

Gayle

Becca_H
07-25-2011, 11:48 PM
Putting words into other people's mouths can be extremely effective, as has happened to me. I've had people tell me stuff that people have allegedly said about me. Because I didn't know them well, the seed of doubt was planted, even if the person denied it.

When I was younger, someone managed to screw me over with this trick, until he tried it on some of my closest friends (who I KNEW wouldn't say what he claimed they said) and then his entire scheme fell flat as we all discovered him - but after a lot of damage was done.

And this wasn't bitching or plain and simple talking behind our backs. This was contrived, well-planned, long-term, intelligent manipulation of multiple individuals.

So yeah, unless two people's relationship is extremely strong, it's very easy to make one person doubt the other with only a small amount of input.

JennieRose8
07-25-2011, 11:58 PM
A manipulation trick I have seen and experience a lot is shifting blame. To quote from an ex:

"I wouldn't be a bastard if you hadn't left me."
(Yeah, he was a winner.)

My biological father (also a winner), used similar techniques for years, culminating in once e-mailing my sister a diatribe complete with a lot of awful name-calling. When she responded to tell him off (as he was expecting her to), he swore up and down his e-mail had been hacked, and it wasn't his fault. I still think he's full of crap.

It's all about charm + manipulation. I think your MC's dad needs to be very charming on the service, as people will forgive a lot if someone is charming or can fake a good apology or excuse. If he's just an out-and-out bastard, it'll be harder for anyone to believe that he's gotten anything past anyone ever.

Hope this helps!

Gayle

Yup, you hit the nail on the head. His father is very charming and knows how to get on peoples' good sides. Very, very sly fox.

backslashbaby
07-26-2011, 08:41 AM
How about the teacher screwing up the kid's college admissions (athletic scholarship perhaps?) by writing a confidential letter expressing concern about him to the sports scouts or college interviewer?

eta: no, a phone call is better! Nothing in writing.

JennieRose8
08-06-2011, 02:48 PM
Getting ready to employ some of your ideas. :) Ah, this is fun. LOL

RexZentah
08-08-2011, 12:57 AM
Hi Jennie, I know this thread has digressed from the original topic, but I think your question should be "how do rich people use their money to 'buy' what they want?"

As a writer, you may change the question to "How would I be tempted to use my money to get what I want?" Or, "How would I offer to pay people to achieve what I wanted if I was such character?"

frimble3
08-08-2011, 02:21 AM
Now that the circumstances have been explained, I don't think your teacher has to 'hire' anybody. If he sets it up that 'all will be punished for the sins of any' and keeps harping on the class being punished for the jock's failings, the whole class will start to give the jock the stink-eye.
And, if the teacher doesn't want to leave a trail back to the jock's harassing the girl (because, presumably, that would be the quick, easy thing to do), if he's called on his own behaviour, he can say some variation of "Those football players get away with murder. Unlike the rest of the staff, I'm not cutting him slack because he's a quarterback. He has to learn responsibility." Which sounds teacherly enough that people might think he's a jerk, but in a 'Yeah, he's overdoing it, but I can see what he's getting at' way.
He could even slide in a little "I was a rich man's son, I wish someone had cared enough to be tough on me."

And, the dynamic makes sense, it's two guys, about the same age, squaring off against each other. It's not like the teacher is some older guy, years of experience, who's going to take the long view. Add a pretty girl to the mix, and it could get very dicy. I hope frustration and building tension doesn't lead to violence. : )

JennieRose8
08-08-2011, 04:22 AM
Hi Jennie, I know this thread has digressed from the original topic, but I think your question should be "how do rich people use their money to 'buy' what they want?"

As a writer, you may change the question to "How would I be tempted to use my money to get what I want?" Or, "How would I offer to pay people to achieve what I wanted if I was such character?"


Good point. Thanks, Rex. :)

JennieRose8
08-08-2011, 04:23 AM
Now that the circumstances have been explained, I don't think your teacher has to 'hire' anybody. If he sets it up that 'all will be punished for the sins of any' and keeps harping on the class being punished for the jock's failings, the whole class will start to give the jock the stink-eye.
And, if the teacher doesn't want to leave a trail back to the jock's harassing the girl (because, presumably, that would be the quick, easy thing to do), if he's called on his own behaviour, he can say some variation of "Those football players get away with murder. Unlike the rest of the staff, I'm not cutting him slack because he's a quarterback. He has to learn responsibility." Which sounds teacherly enough that people might think he's a jerk, but in a 'Yeah, he's overdoing it, but I can see what he's getting at' way.
He could even slide in a little "I was a rich man's son, I wish someone had cared enough to be tough on me."

And, the dynamic makes sense, it's two guys, about the same age, squaring off against each other. It's not like the teacher is some older guy, years of experience, who's going to take the long view. Add a pretty girl to the mix, and it could get very dicy. I hope frustration and building tension doesn't lead to violence. : )


Frimble, love your suggestions. Some of that sounds like Dan (my male MC). Yeah, the tension will be fun, though. LOL

JennieRose8
08-11-2011, 05:40 PM
Well so far I have a jock acting like he's scared to death of teacher (of course this is mainly while the jock is drunk) with no good explanation. LOL Teacher is by no means threatening his life, though. ;)

JennieRose8
08-12-2011, 10:25 PM
lol well scratch that for now. I wound up deleting the past two chapters. Decided a big rewrite for those are in order. :)

Mark G
08-17-2011, 03:20 AM
I read a book that would be a totally awesome reference for techniques on manipulation: Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward (Amazon link (http://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Blackmail-People-Obligation-Manipulate/dp/0060928972/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1313536157&sr=8-1)). It helped me realize what my EX-fiancee was doing to me!!!

You can pick and choose from the GREAT examples in that book for manipulation techniques!

JennieRose8
08-18-2011, 02:22 AM
I read a book that would be a totally awesome reference for techniques on manipulation: Emotional Blackmail by Susan Forward (Amazon link (http://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Blackmail-People-Obligation-Manipulate/dp/0060928972/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1313536157&sr=8-1)). It helped me realize what my EX-fiancee was doing to me!!!

You can pick and choose from the GREAT examples in that book for manipulation techniques!


Thanks for the recommendation. :) I'll have a look.