Straights writing gays

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efreysson

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I was wondering: Is there something a straight writer should keep in mind when writing gay characters, aside from the obvious "no cardboard stereotypes"? Are there any non-obvious things in fiction that tend to annoy or offend?
 

JohnnyGottaKeyboard

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There are so many things, I could be typing here for hours (I'm actually somewhat annoied by your question, not that you asked it, but that it exists).;) But I'm going to follow the AWWC golden rule and assume you ask it with the very best intentions and willingness to accumulate knowledge, however dubious*.

Kitty Pride posted a link to a list of tropes in one of the stickies above...Here it is.

But one of my personal annoyances, and the cause of me tossing more than one book across the room, is the idea that gay characters must ultimately be punished for being gay (either through death or ostracization, etc.). That's not to say gay characters can't suffer or die (a major gay character suffers a horrible death in the Obsidian Man), they just shouldn't suffer these things because they are gay. (Conversely, it is perfectly acceptable to me for gay characters to suffer because society et al does not "like" the fact that they are gay, as long as I feel confident the author is fully aware of what s/he is doing.)

Oh, and "Women in Love"--the idea that any time there is more than one gay character in a story they will de facto end up together. (Another conversely here, practical experience has taught that most gay men will have sex with another gay man they are only marginally attracted to, simply due to opportunity, but this is not anything even remotely the same as falling in love. I kid! Or do I...?)

Just my (exact) two cents.

*ETA: That "dubious" applies to the merit of any knowledge I might impart, not your motives for seeking it.
 
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Chris P

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Interesting question, responses, and link. I like it when a character is "different" in some way (gay, in an interracial relationship, physically disabled, etc.) and the story isn't about the characters' struggle with the situation. I've so far stayed away from gay characters because I don't trust my abilities to write them fairly. I guess that means I have some things to learn before I do :)
 

BunnyMaz

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Same advice for men writing women, women writing men, white people writing POC and so on.

One thing. Write the character as a person first, and as a ___ person second.
 

Mutive

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Same advice for men writing women, women writing men, white people writing POC and so on.

One thing. Write the character as a person first, and as a ___ person second.

Very much so. ;)

I also strongly recommend research. Ask questions, check out message boards, do your homework. It will help you avoid doing something that is horribly offensive and/or stupid.
 

efreysson

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But I'm going to follow the AWWC golden rule and assume you ask it with the very best intentions and willingness to accumulate knowledge

Well, yes. Questions are for accumulating knowledge.

But one of my personal annoyances, and the cause of me tossing more than one book across the room, is the idea that gay characters must ultimately be punished for being gay (either through death or ostracization, etc.). That's not to say gay characters can't suffer or die (a major gay character suffers a horrible death in the Obsidian Man), they just shouldn't suffer these things because they are gay. (Conversely, it is perfectly acceptable to me for gay characters to suffer because society et al does not "like" the fact that they are gay, as long as I feel confident the author is fully aware of what s/he is doing.)
Yeah, I would consider that one of those "obvious" things. Same with the notes in those links, but thanks all the same.
I'm mostly asking to feel on the safe side.

Interesting question, responses, and link. I like it when a character is "different" in some way (gay, in an interracial relationship, physically disabled, etc.) and the story isn't about the characters' struggle with the situation.

Yes, I find that refreshing. People and their whole lives aren't defined by a single trait.

Same advice for men writing women, women writing men, white people writing POC and so on.

One thing. Write the character as a person first, and as a ___ person second.

Absolutely. That's a fundamental rule to keep in mind when writing. Otherwise, your characters will be either cliches, stereotypes or both.
 
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Same advice for men writing women, women writing men, white people writing POC and so on.

One thing. Write the character as a person first, and as a ___ person second.
First of all, I'd like to say, this, this, a thousand times this.

Secondly: nice signature. :D
 

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I was wondering: Is there something a straight writer should keep in mind when writing gay characters, aside from the obvious "no cardboard stereotypes"? Are there any non-obvious things in fiction that tend to annoy or offend?

I think it helps to bear in mind that
a) there is a more to gay people than who they have sex with, and

b) gay people are pretty much the same as straight people (e.g., they go grocery shopping, not gay grocery shopping; they do laundry, not gay laundry), and

c) gay people do not want to boink every person of the same sex they see, just as a straight woman does not want to boink every man she sees, and

d) being gay is a 24/7 thing, and it can affect how the person does things/views things/interacts with people/interacts with their environment. This will to a large degree depend on the society/microsociety in which the person lives, and the amount of homophobia they experience in their daily life, and

e) contrary to what you read in lesbian romance novels, lesbians do not have mindblowing sex and simultaneous multiple orgasms with their lover several times a day every day, while dealing with disaster/death/intrigue/mystery/devastation/depression/etc.
 

AyJay

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Not that I'm self-promoting or anything, but I just kind of blogged about this...

I think there are queer stories told by queer people, and there are queer stories told by non-queer people. Both can be great (or terrible) qualitatively, but essentially there's a different sensibility, or POV if you will.

The Queer Matrix.

The tie-in with your question is: we can only write from our particular worldview. That doesn't mean it's not important to research different cultures, check yourself for prejudices, etc. But the gay characters you create will be yours--the way you see them. Some people will love 'em, some will hate 'em.
 

BunnyMaz

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I agree! I'd be interested in a more in-depth thread AyJay, even if I just lurk and read it.

Also agree that OP sounds like they're in about as good a position to start writing as is possible. You've got the important stuff sorted in your head already. :D
 

DiloKeith

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...I also strongly recommend research. Ask questions, check out message boards, do your homework. It will help you avoid doing something that is horribly offensive and/or stupid.

A great idea, but it's not as easy as it sounds. On one forum, people seemed more willing to help with a personal matter than writing. The first time, I said up front I was asking because I was writing about it (not about being gay, BTW, since I used to be a lesbian) and that bothered some people. Plus, it takes time to meet the right people if the information is about something general, like culture and sensibilities. If you just want to know how many men enjoy both topping and bottoming, for example, that's not too difficult. I spend a lot of time on a gay forum (predominantly men) - at first it was for research (since I'm female).
 

KTC

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I wrote a novel this past weekend with a gay main character. The narrator's best friend is gay. It was, I will admit, an 'issue' novel. The gay character gets beat up...bad enough to be hospitalized. The three main characters---narrator, his girlfriend & his best friend---go to Kenya with the narrator's parents. Homosexuality isn't the only issue but it is addressed, as it's illegal in Kenya. It's a YA and I wrote it in 72 hours. Editing now. I'm going to take advantage of Kitty's info and things shared here. I want to get it all right. Thanks for starting the thread...ands thanks to all who answered.
 

Mutive

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A great idea, but it's not as easy as it sounds. On one forum, people seemed more willing to help with a personal matter than writing. The first time, I said up front I was asking because I was writing about it (not about being gay, BTW, since I used to be a lesbian) and that bothered some people. Plus, it takes time to meet the right people if the information is about something general, like culture and sensibilities. If you just want to know how many men enjoy both topping and bottoming, for example, that's not too difficult. I spend a lot of time on a gay forum (predominantly men) - at first it was for research (since I'm female).


True, and no amount of research will ever duplicate living another person's life. But there are certainly non-straight authors who write non-straight protagonists who are well worth a read. And you can hang out, listen to stories, etc. It's definitely not a perfect replica of another person's life (nothing is), but it will at least give an idea as to what might be different/the same/similar/etc.
 

BunnyMaz

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Not at all unusual. It can squick me out a bit, too.
 

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Is it unusual that I find myself cringing at the words "gays" and "straights"?

No; it's . . . well, it's clumsy writing at best.

It's still grouping people as a unit based on a single characteristic; this sometimes leads to stereotyping, and is often a Freudian slip.

It's no better or worse than grouping together individuals as "Swedes" or "Cellists."

It's marginally better than "the Gays," "The Swedes," etc. which is, often, though not always, a clue that the appositive or verb structure following is not really well-thought out.

I'm probably going to post a thing I've been working on for a while on one of my sites about language and the Other.

One of the things I'm seeing from all kinds of well-meaning people from all sorts of places and orientations is "openly gay, " "openly queer," "openly X."

Openly, most of the time, is used to preface a negative characteristic; to express shock that person X is engaging in behavior Y in public.

There are other ways of expressing the fact that the person is out and proud, without using a potentially Freudian adverb.

It's, again, clumsy writing rather than malicious. It's not at all meant unkindly.

There are some useful tips in this style guide from the National Gay Lesbian Journalists Association and in the GLAAD Media Reference.
 
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DancingMaenid

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Is it unusual that I find myself cringing at the words "gays" and "straights"?

No, it kind of makes me wince, too, I think mainly because most of the time when I see people talk about "gays," it's negative. Though it's not being used negatively here, so that's good.

To the OP: I second what others have said. First and foremost, treat your characters like people and individuals. Read the resources that have been suggested, and if a particular question or concern comes up during the course of your writing, look into it.
 

AyJay

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OK...I started a Queer Matrix thread.

To Medievalist, I hope I'm not contributing to the grouping/language issue. People might notice that I use terms like non-gay, or non-queer a lot, and it's a habit and intentional: to subvert the norm and make people think. Can gay/queer be a "predominant," or "normal," or "mainstream," or "majority" worldview?

I most definitely agree that "openly gay" is judgmental, imprecise and just ridiculous.
 

Deleted member 42

OK...I started a Queer Matrix thread.

To Medievalist, I hope I'm not contributing to the grouping/language issue. People might notice that I use terms like non-gay, or non-queer a lot, and it's a habit and intentional: to subvert the norm and make people think. Can gay/queer be a "predominant," or "normal," or "mainstream," or "majority" worldview?

I most definitely agree that "openly gay" is judgmental, imprecise and just ridiculous.

No worries; I also like to use lesbian, on purpose, because English post 1100 has a male default, and makes it ever more easy to ignore lesbians along with all the other women.

You use herstory, or womyn and I'll mock you unmercifully. That there's language abuse.
 

KTC

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You use herstory, or womyn and I'll mock you unmercifully. That there's language abuse.

HA! I know someone who does. But she also grows mushrooms in her bathtub. (-; Love her to bits...but she's crazy.
 
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