Plane crash procedures

shadowwalker

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I've looked on the internet and can't find this, so hopefully can get some help here.

I have a Gulfstream I crash landing at a small private airport (landing gear collapses on landing and it flips on its side). I'm trying to find out a) what possible injuries would be likely (passengers and pilots) and b) what would be the emergency responder procedure for extracting the occupants.

Links to sites or organizations to contact would be fine, as I'm not sure I'll even use this in the actual story at this point. I just have to have some idea of what could/would happen.

Thanks for any help :)
 

jclarkdawe

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Level of injuries can be anywhere from they walk away to they're dead. And they may or may not be burnt if the plane catches on fire. Crashes on landing are less likely to burn than taking off.

Response is from the municipal fire department, unless the airport has its own department. Usually the nearest engine company will have a deck gun with foam capability. Usual response will be a couple of engines, one or more rescues/ambulances, and one or more ladder companies (ladder trucks have heavy rescue equipment).

Extrication is roughly similar to a car accident. You make sure the plane is stable, force open the doors if possible, or cut the plane to crap to remove occupants. Planes usually tend to be easy to cut in many places than cars because the body work is not as heavy gauge metal.

From the firefighters I've known to respond to small plane crashes, they sound a lot more exciting than they actually are. All it really is is a car with wings and some really flammable fuel.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe
 

shadowwalker

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Extrication is roughly similar to a car accident. You make sure the plane is stable, force open the doors if possible, or cut the plane to crap to remove occupants. Planes usually tend to be easy to cut in many places than cars because the body work is not as heavy gauge metal.

Thanks for the info. I was thinking it could be similar to a car wreck, but I know nothing about planes so... :tongue
 

Buffysquirrel

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I might well be corrected by AWers with better knowledge than my own, but I would've thought in that situation, the plane flipping would be unlikely. If the nose wheel collapses, the plane's nose hits the ground and it skids along on its belly throwing up sparks. If the landing gear collapses on one side, the wing on that side hits the ground. To flip round that wing...I don't know. Someone help me!
 

shadowwalker

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I might well be corrected by AWers with better knowledge than my own, but I would've thought in that situation, the plane flipping would be unlikely. If the nose wheel collapses, the plane's nose hits the ground and it skids along on its belly throwing up sparks. If the landing gear collapses on one side, the wing on that side hits the ground. To flip round that wing...I don't know. Someone help me!

The scenario I had envisioned was a side landing gear breaking apart (due to mechanical malfunction) and the plane's wing hitting the ground - hard. The wing would then break apart, causing the plane to flip (flop?) onto its side. But perhaps that scenario isn't realistic either.
 

Tsu Dho Nimh

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I have a Gulfstream I crash landing at a small private airport (landing gear collapses on landing and it flips on its side). I'm trying to find out a) what possible injuries would be likely (passengers and pilots)


and b) what would be the emergency responder procedure for extracting the occupants.

How bad does your plot need to hurt them ... tell us that and we can figure out the mechanism of the crash to make it happen.

Extraction is much like automobiles - stabilize necks, splint busted limbs, etc. and then haul them out on a backboard. The hydraulic openers used to pry apart the body of the plane is needed.

More attention to fire vontrol because aviation fuel is more likelty to catch on fire.
 

shadowwalker

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Hey SW,

Whe I read the OP I immediately thought of ex-Formula 1 driver David Coulthard's near-death experience in a Learjet.

Here's a link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/733565.stm

DC and his girlfriend survived. The pilots, sadly, didn't.

Regards

Whacko

Thanks. I'm seeing more and more incidents where the passengers were able to extricate themselves. Don't know if that's as common as it appears or if I'm just finding those articles. The pilots don't seem to fare as well, unfortunately.
 

shadowwalker

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How bad does your plot need to hurt them ... tell us that and we can figure out the mechanism of the crash to make it happen.

Extraction is much like automobiles - stabilize necks, splint busted limbs, etc. and then haul them out on a backboard. The hydraulic openers used to pry apart the body of the plane is needed.

More attention to fire vontrol because aviation fuel is more likelty to catch on fire.

The copilot needs to be hurt badly enough to never want to fly again, but survivable and not with a permanent disability. But I've set up the damaged landing gear/wing to be on his side also. The pilot I'm looking at relatively minor injuries due to the sudden jolt/seatbelt.
 

jclarkdawe

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I might well be corrected by AWers with better knowledge than my own, but I would've thought in that situation, the plane flipping would be unlikely. If the nose wheel collapses, the plane's nose hits the ground and it skids along on its belly throwing up sparks. If the landing gear collapses on one side, the wing on that side hits the ground. To flip round that wing...I don't know. Someone help me!

I'm no great expert on planes, but my guess is the following happens. As long as the part touching the ground keeps skidding, the plane stays upright. If the part touching the ground grabs or buries in the ground, the part causes that part to stop, while the rest of the plane wants to continue moving. Result is a flip. Speed is also a factor here, as the faster the plane is going, the more likely a snag will be to cause it to flip.

A plane's center of gravity is lower than a car's with a wider area, so I think a plane is less likely to flip. But I've seen pictures of crashed planes upright and upside down. Both happen and very few people are going to understand the dynamics of accident reconstruction to quibble with the result.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe
 

Buffysquirrel

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And, if the plane were landing too fast, that might be what broke the undercarriage. *nods*
 

shadowwalker

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The faulty landing gear happened when the plane landed in a very remote area in South America - basically the only flat stretch they could find, although very rough. (Leaky hydraulics, in a nutshell). Because of pursuit, they didn't have time to properly repair it, thus when they landed the next time, their luck ran out.

I hope that's also believable just because of the headaches developed trying to figure out the technical manual! :Headbang:
 

debirlfan

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Your plane might be more likely to flip if it's landing on grass/dirt and it's muddy (broken gear digs into the soft ground).

And your co-pilot not wanting to fly again may have noting to do with extent of injuries. If the accident scares him badly enough (for example, him and the others aboard barely manage to get out before the plane burns to a crisp) - then he might not be hurt at all, but yet have a panic reaction when he thinks about flying again.
 
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shadowwalker

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Your plane might be more likely to flip if it's landing on grass/dirt and it's muddy (broken gear digs into the soft ground).

It is a private airport, so it would be easy enough (I think) to have them slide off the runway itself and onto grass or mud. Definitely would increase the probability of flipping, I would agree.

And your co-pilot not wanting to fly again may have noting to do with extent of injuries. If the accident scares him badly enough (for example, him and the others aboard barely manage to get out before the plane burns to a crisp) - then he might not be hurt at all, but yet have a panic reaction when he thinks about flying again.

Quite true. Just watching the runway swirl away in a maelstrom, accompanied by the noise of the crash itself followed by a traumatic escape... yeah, who needs an injury? ;)
 

Hallen

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Crashes on landing are less likely to burn than taking off.

All it really is is a car with wings and some really flammable fuel.

Planes are no more likely to burn on a takeoff crash than they are on a landing crash. Yes, there is more fuel on board during takeoff, generally, but that doesn't mean they are more likely to burn. A half full fuel tank is actually more dangerous than a full one because there is more likely to be fuel/air vapor in the tank which is highly flammable and potentially explosive. However, most modern fuel systems have mechanisms to vent this kind of thing to minimize the risk. Also, all fuel systems are "crash worthy" these days. They have cut off valves, rubber, self-sealing, fuel tanks and other safety features. They can and do rupture and burn in major crashes, but it takes a whole lot of smashing for that to happen (or a system failure).

Jet fuel is technically less flammable than car gas. It's just highly filtered diesel. It has a higher flash point than car gas so is less likely to ignite from a spark than gas (petrol if you're across the pond).

Modern reciprocating engine airplanes use something very similar to car gas, but again, it's better filtered and has other additives. But it's no more flammable than car gas.


I'm no great expert on planes, but my guess is the following happens. As long as the part touching the ground keeps skidding, the plane stays upright. If the part touching the ground grabs or buries in the ground, the part causes that part to stop, while the rest of the plane wants to continue moving. Result is a flip. Speed is also a factor here, as the faster the plane is going, the more likely a snag will be to cause it to flip.
Yes. A single gear failure is dangerous because of the drag on that side and the risk of catching the wing tip causing the airplane to violently rotate and possibly start the tumbling flips. I'd much rather have a nose gear failure than a main gear failure. In practice, if you know one of your main gears is not down and locked, the pilot will opt for a belly landing (landing gear retracted) rather than try to land on one main gear and the nose gear.

A plane's center of gravity is lower than a car's with a wider area, so I think a plane is less likely to flip.
Probably not.
CG varies per aircraft just like it will per car. It depends on configuration, cargo and weight. An airplane's center of gravity is much more sensitive longitudinally than a car's because of it's center of lift vs 4 tires on the ground, but vertical CG is going to be roughly similar.

Anyway, if the pilot does not know they have a problem with a main gear, the landing can go very badly. A tumble is pretty likely in this case. The gear will probably collapse on contact with the ground and the pilot won't be ready for it. The wing on the Gulfstream is a low wing configuration with no engine pod on the wing. The wing tip will contact the ground, if it snags, the plane can potentially flip.

Hope this helps.
 
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shadowwalker

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Hope this helps.

Thank you. I appreciate the detailed information, although I do think the comments to Jim could've been withheld. He did state he was not an expert on planes, and I am grateful for all the responses I've had so far. They've helped not only factually but in bringing up other questions/concerns I need to address. :)
 

CaseyMack

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Here are a few things you might want to consider:

1). It is unlikely that the aircraft will flip. Even if one of the main gear collapses, aircraft wings are strong enough to support the entire weight of the plane--they have to, otherwise the plane couldn't fly! Unless a wing is shorn off, the aircraft will probably slide along the ground more or less intact (you should be able to find good videos and pictures of this from WWII--especially 8th Air Force B-17s, which landed without gear or with only one main gear, frequently). If you really want the damned thing to flip, it has to have a wing sheared off by contact with an object. That would both shear-off the wing, and induce a rotational moment to the aircraft about its vertical axis (i.e., make it start spinning--as Hallen mentions.) The trouble is that unless the Gulfstream was using an airport unsuitable to it, there shouldn't be objects for its wings to both contact and be sturdy enough to shear a wing off.

2). Depending how small the "small airport" is, it might have no firefighting or emergency equipment at all. (You might be surprised at the size of airports at which this is true--and I mean really surprised.) For that reason, it would be legitimate to write in any level of equipment and response your story needs.

3) The following site has lots and lots of accident reports. You might find some useful information in the reports--although it may take a while. http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/index.aspx

4) I believe that Horizon Air had that kind of accident at SeaTac some years ago. You might do a search for it. The only thing is that that was a high-wing, Dash-8 aircraft--I think.

Happy Landings!
 

shadowwalker

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Thanks for the info. Maybe it should just be the propellor that breaks apart... I'll check out that Horizon Air - maybe there's a video (seems to be a huge cache of those).

Definitely like the idea that the airport doesn't have to have its own emergency equipment. It actually would work better that way.

Thanks again. :)
 

CaseyMack

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Hi shadowwalker

Check these out:

Keep in mind, this is a crash rather than a landing. Note that, even still, the plane doesn't flip over.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a8a_1188708940

This one seems close to the G-I accident you describe. In this one, note the remarkable ending position of the aircraft. Note also the reason given for the wheels-up landing!

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6b9cdeb6d2

Last, not least, here's a B737 landing on one main gear.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fd4_1180503736

I hope you find these short videos useful!

Cheers,
Casey