Racial stereotypes

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DanielAnuchan

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I notice that books and movies present members of different races in a stereotypical manner. The current wave seems to be for a terrorist to be Middle Eastern.

What I'd like to know is this:

Should we be perpetuating these stereotypes? Will readers and movie audiences rebel if we try to present Middle Easterners as sensible people?
 

shadowwalker

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I doubt anyone will 'rebel'. Of course, you'll lose a few readers who see anything but this stereotype as anti-American, subversive, and probably traitorous - but every writer loses a few readers no matter what they write. I personally think a lot of people (myself included) would find it refreshing to move away from the stereotypes.
 

Libbie

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Wait...you're complaining about media portraying terrorists as Middle Eastern, or about media portraying Middle Easterners as terrorists? There is a world of difference between the two. If a story is focused on a terrorist -- his occupation and how his decision to become involved in terrorism effects his life and the lives of the people he loves -- then maybe making him Middle Eastern would be timely and possibly even moving. If it's well written, it might help people who have little experience of Middle Eastern politics come to understand how some people who live under those political conditions end up turning to terrorism. It wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. It could be an amazing, world-changing book.

On the other hand, if you're writing about a typical Middle Eastern family, or a family of Mid-East descent living in Europe and somebody just happens to be a terrorist for no apparent reason because duh, obviously Middle Easterners are terrorists!, or if your book about how terrorists become terrorists boils down to nothing more than DERKA DERKA MUHAMMAD JIHAD, then you're writing a stupid stereotype and you need to be smacked. (Unless it's satire, and then that goes into a whole other realm of what's acceptable.)

And while anybody could be a terrorist, the majority of the terrorists who have been making the North American and European news for the past 20 years have been affiliated with Middle Eastern-based terrorists organizations. So if a writer is from North America or Europe, writing about a terrorist affiliated with Al-Qaeda or Hamas or the Muslim Brotherhood would be a pretty natural choice.

I don't know whether it's automatically stereotyping to write a terrorist who is from the Middle East. But it totally depends on why you're writing it, and how you approach it.
 
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jeffo20

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Should we be perpetuating these stereotypes?
Of course not. However, as Libbie so ably pointed out, just having characters that are Middle Eastern terrorists is not automatically stereotyping, though there will be those who howl in protest no matter how the chacacters are developed.

Will readers and movie audiences rebel if we try to present Middle Easterners as sensible people?
Not the intelligent ones.
 

kaitie

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I think the other two have explained this well, but I do know that, in movies more than books, I am often really frustrated that members of a particular race are almost always bad guys. To use this example, for instance, if we looked at all movies recently that portray characters who are Middle Eastern, what percentage of those characters were bad guys or terrorists or whatever?

While it's not quite as common anymore, I remember being younger and criminals were almost always African-American. Or movies during the Cold War where bad guys were always Russian.

It actually does bother me because I feel like, when the vast majority of portrayals are negative, it is encouraging a general opinion that people of that race are more likely to have whatever the negative trait is and I feel it is incredibly unfair. I think it also goes pretty far in showing how average society sees these groups.

I guess my way of thinking is two-fold. Yes, lately many terrorists have been from the Middle East (though certainly not all), and so yes it might be more accurate to have a terrorist in a story also be, but why do people feel the need to write so many stories about bad guy terrorists in the first place? Second, why can't we see more characters of these various minority groups who aren't bad guys, but just normal people going about their lives? Why don't we see the neighbor down the road who helps rescue the MC and helps him find shelter be a Middle Eastern man? Or an African-American cop? Or the Hispanic woman is a teacher instead of the janitor?

I'm not really sure that I'm making sense. I just feel like there's no balance, and that the ratios we do see tend to encourage negative views that can be interpreted to imply that more people of a particular group fit into a category than really do. I mean, the vast, vast majority of people from the Middle East aren't terrorists, they're normal people living normal lives. I wish we could see that portrayed more often.

And none of this goes to the cliche issue at all, but seriously, if you are going to do it, why only bad guy Middle Eastern terrorists? Why not the IRA, or a homegrown American crazy person like the ones who did the Murrah Building? When something is done over and over and over again it just becomes cliche. I'd much rather find out that the bad guy was someone I hadn't seen be a bad guy in fifteen other movies (or books) before.

Anyway, I don't think audiences would typically rebel if we presented Middle Easterners as sensible. Hell, this audience member would be cheering it. Sure, there are some racist asshats out there who will have a problem with it, but that doesn't really matter. There are always people who won't like something for whatever reason.

I remember seeing a bit on the Daily Show awhile back discussing someone who had said we need a Muslim Cosby Show that could portray a Muslim family as a normal, everyday family in a relate-able way. I think if we had more "sensible" portrayals, as you put it, it would make it easier to get rid of those stereotypes.
 
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jeffo20

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if we looked at all movies recently that portray characters who are Middle Eastern, what percentage of those characters were bad guys or terrorists or whatever?
This, to me, is the problem. It's not that there are Middle Eastern terrorists; it's that all the M.E. characters in these books/movies in question are terrorists. That's part of what perpetuates the stereoptypes.

why do people feel the need to write so many stories about bad guy terrorists in the first place?
I suspect, for a lot of writers, it's a way of being timely and current. Or, it's just stuff that's on their minds. Or, it's a way of pandering to a crowd (especially for movies). "I know, I'll make the bad guys Arab terrorists; that'll get the crowd going!"

I'm not really sure that I'm making sense. I just feel like there's no balance, and that the ratios we do see tend to encourage negative views that can be interpreted to imply that more people of a particular group fit into a category than really do. I mean, the vast, vast majority of people from the Middle East aren't terrorists, they're normal people living normal lives. I wish we could see that portrayed more often.
You're making perfect sense. I agree with you completely. Nicely stated.
 

kaitie

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The real irony is that putting terrorists in something is one of the best ways to turn me off, just because I'm so tired of it lol. That's slightly less so now, but especially after the terrorist attacks. At first it was just too hard, and then it was such a common thing to hear about all the time that I just burned out on the topic.

My guess would be that a lot of it has to do with playing on people's fears for the sake of drawing a strong emotional reaction. In much the same way that certain topics have become very common in stories, rape and pedophilia for example, I think it's something that gives an automatic emotional response.

I also think it gives an "easy" villain most of the time. How many times do you see terrorists that are developed characters? I think it's kind of a lazy way to get around having to develop a strong character. I actually am always impressed when you have a character like a terrorist whose reasoning and back story is provided, but most of the time I see the stereotyped bad guy like this, there is no development whatsoever. They just serve as a generic "evil bad guy."
 

DanielAnuchan

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I cannot blame a particular writer for choosing to make a terrorist in his/her book Middle Eastern. Nor can I blame a writer for making all the victims as non-Middle Eastern. After all, I want my book to sell, and if I put a Canadian as my terrorist, I don't want all Americans to complain that it isn't realistic and all the Canadians to complain that I'm attacking their nationality.

We can argue idealistically all we want about how unfair it is, but in the end, I still think if I make my terrorist Middle Eastern, I will ruffle the fewest feathers.

I actually am always impressed when you have a character like a terrorist whose reasoning and back story is provided, but most of the time I see the stereotyped bad guy like this, there is no development whatsoever. They just serve as a generic "evil bad guy."

kaitie, I agree 100%. Down with 2D characters!!!

P.S. My book has no terrorists in it, and no Middle Easterners, either. I'm dealing with other stereotyped races.
 
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blacbird

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There's another way to look at this: How well would it work to have Amish terrorists? Quaker terrorists? Icelandic terrorists?

Unless you're doing Terry Pratchettish satire, you do need to maintain some connection with reality. Regrettably, we have recent history with terrorists of Islamist persuasion, originating in places like Egypt, Yemen, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. That's reality.

caw
 

mccardey

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There's another way to look at this: How well would it work to have Amish terrorists? Quaker terrorists? Icelandic terrorists?

Unless you're doing Terry Pratchettish satire, you do need to maintain some connection with reality. Regrettably, we have recent history with terrorists of Islamist persuasion, originating in places like Egypt, Yemen, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. That's reality.

caw

Well, I think we have terrorists of all kinds of persuasion, originating in all kinds of places. But don't get me started ...

ETA - I have to agree about the Quaker thing though, knowing the Quakers I do. I mean - the idea of a Quaker terrorist is kind of engaging, yes? What would they do? Sit down and be quiet at you for a while...? ;)
 
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friendlyhobo

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I'm went to a Quaker boarding school and there was a Quaker cemetery across the road. Quietest zombies ever. "Brrraiiiins? Please?"
But as for the original question: The biggest writing problem with stereotypes is that they are shallow. They have no depth and if you character is a stereotype they will be the same. If you write an in depth interesting character who is middle eastern and a terrorist, it won't be a stereotype because terrorist and middle eastern won't be the entire character.
 

kaitie

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There's another way to look at this: How well would it work to have Amish terrorists? Quaker terrorists? Icelandic terrorists?

Unless you're doing Terry Pratchettish satire, you do need to maintain some connection with reality. Regrettably, we have recent history with terrorists of Islamist persuasion, originating in places like Egypt, Yemen, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. That's reality.

caw

And yet an Orthodox Jewish man just brutally murdered and dismembered a Hasidic boy in a neighborhood that was safe and peaceful. It's almost unimaginable. I'm not saying that an Amish terrorist would be likely, but I am saying that sometimes even reality throws us something we'd never expect.

And yes, most terrorists come from those places (right now...well, the terrorists we care about here), but there are also terrorists from other areas and...well, I've already said my opinion on this bit.

I just feel like the reason we had tons of books and movies about Middle Eastern terrorists is because the country as a whole was afraid and fear was being encouraged and perpetuated--in particular fear of that particular group. It was scarier to say it was a terrorist from the Middle East than some random country in Africa or Eastern Europe or something like that because people were afraid of the Middle East. That's what they heard about and that's what people were banking on.

And I have no problem portraying reality. If that's a legitimate issue we're facing, then sure, let there be a movie or two or a book or two dealing with it. The problem comes when that group takes on the role of dominant bad guy in Hollywood and in books. There reaches a point where it goes beyond reality and the portrayal is now reinforcing the original fears that started it. It goes beyond just portraying reality.

Especially when you consider how many terrorist attacks America has been hit with. If someone really wanted to portray reality, they should be writing about the other parts of the world that really do deal with this stuff on a regular basis.
 

Kitty27

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Every race and ethnic group takes a turn being the whipping boy in the USA. It's just in vogue now to do this to Middle Easterners. Not too long ago,Black people were responsible for everything! From uppity women to bold Negroes to Chinese immigrants in the early 20th century,the list is endless.

With 9/11,it became popular to stereotype an entire group of people because that is always what happens with people of color. It's easy to heap more abuse on someone that is different from the supposed norm or mainstream.

After Oklahoma,no white guys were stereotyped as potential terrorists. After Columbine,no white teen-age males were stereotyped as potential killers.This is because they were viewed as nutters and NOT the norm.This should be true for ALL people but it just doesn't happen. Most of the time,POC aren't given the benefit of the doubt. One does something wrong,the entire group is judged for it. Middle Eastern people have been stereotyped for a LONG time. The terrorist attacks just add a new dimension to what was already there.

We aren't adding to the stereotypes. People that don't like folks because of race,gender,sexuality will NOT change their minds. You can write a very respectful portrayal and some will still hate the character because of the above factors.Nothing can be done to enlighten ignorant people.
 
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Mr Flibble

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A British teenager was killed leading an Al Qaeda attack in Somalia. The cell also boasts a US dad of three among their number. That count?

This is because they were viewed as nutters and NOT the norm.This should be true for ALL people but it just doesn't happen.

QFMFT
 

Jamesaritchie

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Murder, however gruesome, or however many killed, isn't terrorism. Right now, the vast, vast majority of actual terrorism happening around the world IS being done by terrorists from the Middle East.

It isn't stereotyping to present fact as fact.

And anyone who thinks white guys weren't being portrayed as terrorists after Oklahoma must avoid all newspapers, all TV, and most of the Internet. Columbine was not terrorism, of course, it was just a multiple murder.

Despite the fact that nearly all terrorists on a worldwide basis ARE from the Middle East, white guys get portray as terrorists constantly, purely because it's politically incorrect to tell the truth.

Presenting a person from the Middle East as a terrorist is not stereotyping, it's simply the daily news.
 

kaitie

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Every race and ethnic group takes a turn being the whipping boy in the USA. It's just in vogue now to do this to Middle Easterners. Not too long ago,Black people were responsible for everything! From uppity women to bold Negroes to Chinese immigrants in the early 20th century,the list is endless.

With 9/11,it became popular to stereotype an entire group of people because that is always what happens with people of color. It's easy to heap more abuse on someone that is different from the supposed norm or mainstream.

After Oklahoma,no white guys were stereotyped as potential terrorists. After Columbine,no white teen-age males were stereotyped as potential killers.This is because they were viewed as nutters and NOT the norm.This should be true for ALL people but it just doesn't happen. Most of the time,POC aren't given the benefit of the doubt. One does something wrong,the entire group is judged for it. Middle Eastern people have been stereotyped for a LONG time. The terrorist attacks just add a new dimension to what was already there.

We aren't adding to the stereotypes. People that don't like folks because of race,gender,sexuality will NOT change their minds. You can write a very respectful portrayal and some will still hate the character because of the above factors.Nothing can be done to enlighten ignorant people.

I so agree with all of this.
 

Susan Coffin

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Stereotyping is making all Middle Eastern people terrorists, and creating all or most of their victims as white and other nationalities. However, creating a Middle Eastern terrorist is not stereotyping, anymore than making a terrorist any other nationality.
 

kaitie

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That was a horrible crime, but it wasn't exactly a terrorist incident, was it?


caw

I know, but my point is that evil can come from the most unexpected corners.
 

mscelina

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Okay, let's look at this way--

There are terrorists in every country in the world. The US has their share of nutters--Waco, TX anyone?--and for a while that colored our perceptions. But what is the single-most memorable incident involving terrorists in the past twenty years? It's not Patty Hearst's kidnapping; not Columbine; not even the Westboro Baptist Church idiots. No--it's 9-11.

You can't underestimate or invalidate the importance of that event. Ever. My kids were 12 and 11 when that happened. THeir perceptions are based off the horror that event instigated. One of my sons-in-law is in Iraq right now. What you call a 'stereotype' is well beyond that. To the people who were kids in 2001, this isn't a stereotype. It's a reality. The only terrorists they know were from the Middle East.

We've had to work with our adult kids, teaching them that not all ME folks are terrorists. We have ME friends; we go to ME festivals with the babies. They met ME exchange students in college and have gotten past that original fear.

They've learned that terrorist and Middle Eastern are not the same thing.

But writers have to present an equation that the audience (reader) can relate to. We're in the business of providing entertainment. Just because a writer makes his terrorist threat originate from the Middle East doesn't mean he's stereotyping. What it means is that's what is necessary to complete that particular plot. *shrug* Before long, someone will write about that French chef terrorist organization Vive la Bomb! and break that mold. And that will be cool and unexpected--and what is necessary to complete THAT particular plot.
 

Mr Flibble

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. Right now, the vast, vast majority of actual terrorism happening around the world IS being done by terrorists from the Middle East.

I'm assuming you're ignoring Africa, the Far East and Russia/ex Russian states....cos while the majorty may be Middle eastern, I wouldn't say the vast majority of incidents. Not even the majority, depending on what time period we're talking here.

They may be the vast majority where US citizens are killed. But that doesn't mean the majority in the world. And to assume it does is just another form of stereotyping. ;)

ETA: For instance, of the 50 odd instances in January (depending on how you define terrorism) 1 only was in the US, and that was by a US citizen. 16 were in non Middle East countries/not by Middle Eastern perps (as admitted/no one admitted culpability). If you count Pakistan as Far East/Asian and not Middle East, 40 ish weren't anything to do with the middle east. Again, depending on how your define terrorism, at least two were perpetrated by the CIA...and whta we can gain from this is: If you're in the US, you're not that likely to get got be Da Big Bad Terrorist. In fact, if you're Middle Eastern you have more to be afraid of AND people assume you want to blow people up.
 
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kaitie

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Okay, let's look at this way--

There are terrorists in every country in the world. The US has their share of nutters--Waco, TX anyone?--and for a while that colored our perceptions. But what is the single-most memorable incident involving terrorists in the past twenty years? It's not Patty Hearst's kidnapping; not Columbine; not even the Westboro Baptist Church idiots. No--it's 9-11.

You can't underestimate or invalidate the importance of that event. Ever. My kids were 12 and 11 when that happened. THeir perceptions are based off the horror that event instigated. One of my sons-in-law is in Iraq right now. What you call a 'stereotype' is well beyond that. To the people who were kids in 2001, this isn't a stereotype. It's a reality. The only terrorists they know were from the Middle East.

We've had to work with our adult kids, teaching them that not all ME folks are terrorists. We have ME friends; we go to ME festivals with the babies. They met ME exchange students in college and have gotten past that original fear.

They've learned that terrorist and Middle Eastern are not the same thing.

But writers have to present an equation that the audience (reader) can relate to. We're in the business of providing entertainment. Just because a writer makes his terrorist threat originate from the Middle East doesn't mean he's stereotyping. What it means is that's what is necessary to complete that particular plot. *shrug* Before long, someone will write about that French chef terrorist organization Vive la Bomb! and break that mold. And that will be cool and unexpected--and what is necessary to complete THAT particular plot.

But see, I would actually argue that part of the reason your children had that fear was because the media portrayed Islam and those from the Middle East as dangerous and terrifying and deadly. The guy behind the Oklahoma City bombing was Catholic. I never saw anyone suggesting Catholics were terrorists and we needed to be afraid.

The problem is that it has become socially acceptable to assume that Middle Eastern people (or Muslims) are terrorists or evil or bent on destroying America. If you watch the news or TV or movies or anything like that, everything seems to reinforce that belief. I was just thinking the other day that when I was a kid, one of the most popular kids in my class was Muslim. We were curious, used to ask about the ceremonies, the clothes, etc., but I never saw anyone treat him poorly. After 9/11, I can't imagine that. I've seen the shit too many of my friends went through, racial stereotyping, insults, etc., and it's horrifying.

My boyfriends mother recently had someone shouting insults at her and trying to run her car off the road for having a bumper sticker for religious equality. And she's a white woman from the Midwest. She had to take the damned bumper sticker off the car because she was so afraid, and the insults were a regular occurrence.

Stop and think about how, if as Kitty had mentioned before, rather than perpetuating the idea that Muslims/Middle Easterners were to be feared, which I can show numerous instances of so there is no doubt in my mind this has occurred, the dialogue had gone like this: "Several crazy men have attacked New York." Not "Muslims" or "Middle Easterners" or anything like that, but just a few crazy extremists--which is what they are. Hell, most people don't even realize that most of them were Saudi Arabian because that wasn't mentioned often--because they're our allies.

The dialogue quickly became that it was okay to discriminate against these groups, that everyone in those groups should be suspect, that we needed to use racial profiling, and the implication is that most group members believe the same things. Rather than a few crazy people, it became a religious issue, a country against country issue. Entire nationalities were declared the enemy overnight. The president was allowed to call someone a "paki."

I have absolutely no doubt that the media had a major influence in making it not just about a few crazy extremists, but about making people afraid. It didn't have to be that way. We could have had a nation that, even after such a horrible event, blamed those responsible rather than holding entire nations and religions responsible.
 

Wayne K

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There's a bit of truth in every stereotype. How you write it is important.
 
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