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icenine
07-04-2011, 06:41 PM
Bet I'm posting this in the wrong thread but anyways, what I'd like to know is where should I complain about ebook theft?

I recently came across a site where users upload all the latest ebooks on a forum to be freely downloaded by anyone who joins. It's truly sickening. All the hard work that goes into some of those novels, the writers and publishers not making a cent. It's outright theft. The site in question has been running for years, the posts go back over 1,400 pages. Literally millions of ebooks new and old downloadable on filesonic and mediafire. The upload site won't take down the copyrighted material, the site running the theft won't take down the forum, and the criminals posting the stuff in the first place are either completely immoral or retarded. Probably both.
I've complained on the site (was banned), to the owners of the site (ignored) and to the upload sites (got a ridiculous and flippant reply).

Is there some kind of regulatory body for this sort of crime?

Torgo
07-04-2011, 07:12 PM
Are you in the UK or the US?

Actually, scrub that. Point me in the right direction. I will then locate some of our books on there and then get our anti-piracy team on it. With forums like this we tend to have a pretty good relationship with the upload hosts; politely asking the forumites not to steal stuff unfortunately doesn't ever work.

icenine
07-04-2011, 07:34 PM
PMed you the details

veinglory
07-04-2011, 08:48 PM
The older, larger file-sharing sites tend to manage it by being difficult to reach legally. Either the server is in a country that doesn't police that kind of crime or the actually files are loaded elsewhere and just linked to.

That said it never hurts to send the correct DMCA and/or let your publisher know.

areteus
07-05-2011, 02:14 AM
Yeah, its a major issue and there are several of these sites out there. It's one problem inherent in all digital media formats. I know some authors who specifically go onto these sites to challenge those who download their books (or any books) for free. Glad to heat there is an antipiracy group on here... I am now imagining a black clad, balaclavad special ops group abseiling into a building to plant explosive charges on servers holding illegal downloads... :)

Torgo
07-05-2011, 02:17 AM
Glad to heat there is an antipiracy group on here... I am now imagining a black clad, balaclavad special ops group abseiling into a building to plant explosive charges on servers holding illegal downloads... :)

Not affiliated with AW, I should point out - basically these guys: http://www.copyrightinfringementportal.com/ - and the people at my employers who work with them.

Cyia
07-05-2011, 02:33 AM
*waits for the inevitable "it is / it isn't theft" debate to erupt"

There are file sharing sites that will remove contested material once someone tells them it's on there. However, downloads =/= lost sales.

Torgo
07-05-2011, 02:42 AM
*waits for the inevitable "it is / it isn't theft" debate to erupt"

There are file sharing sites that will remove contested material once someone tells them it's on there. However, downloads =/= lost sales.

Yeah, I'm generally on that exact side of the argument, and have expounded upon it at length in these pages. Still, having tried being nice, showing up to talk books on warez forums, etc, my experience is that you get treated with contempt; at which point I'm generally happy to release the hounds.

Soccer Mom
07-05-2011, 05:54 AM
*waits for the inevitable "it is / it isn't theft" debate to erupt"

There are file sharing sites that will remove contested material once someone tells them it's on there. However, downloads =/= lost sales.

Nope. We aren't having that debate. Let's keep this one strictly on the mechanics of having illegally posted stuff removed. Any posts delving into theft debate will be terminated with extreme prejudice. Or deleted. And the poster will have his or her avatar changed WITHOUT MERCY.

Just so we're clear.

blacbird
07-05-2011, 05:59 AM
Nope. We aren't having that debate. Let's keep this one strictly on the mechanics of having illegally posted stuff removed. Any posts delving into theft debate will be terminated with extreme prejudice. Or deleted. And the poster will have his or her avatar changed WITHOUT MERCY.

Just so we're clear.

Okay. I'm not inviting or going to participate in the "debate", if it happens. But I am curious to know what this extreme animus toward the topic is. Is it not a significant issue?

caw

benbradley
07-05-2011, 07:25 AM
*waits for the inevitable "XXXXXXXXX" debate to erupt"

There are file sharing sites that will remove contested material once someone tells them it's on there.
That sounds like most LEGITIMATE Internet businesses. The Internet has gone to the "opt out" model - Youtube and Google Books both appear to work that way. "stuff" is there until the rights holder finds out about it and sends a DMCA takedown letter (http://www.google.com/search?q=DMCA+takedown+letter).

I can hear a song: "With me you can get away with anything until you get caught. I'm The Web and I was born this way."

Oops, sorry. </derail>

But the pirate host sites are about like the "419" scam emails (that don't just come from Nigeria anymore) - they're highly illegal in most countries, but they're hosted in countries where copyright laws are not well enforced.

Can Western governments put pressure on them to more effectively enforce such laws? Yes, and that's sometimes been done, but there's often other touchy issues in those countries that may need more attention and pressure, such as human rights.

Woops, another derail. Let's just say that substantial parts of the Internet are still like the Wild Wild West.

However, XXXXXXXXX. Another Dirty Phrase! Two in one short post! I Vote Avatar Change!


Okay. I'm not inviting or going to participate in the "debate", if it happens. But I am curious to know what this extreme animus toward the topic is. Is it not a significant issue?

caw
Topic XXXXXXXXX is indeed A Significant Issue, but I've seen with my own eyes what has happened to threads where XXXXXXXXX was brought up. It made me wish for a good old honest troll thread.

I tried to save a LOLkitten but it was too late

BardSkye
07-05-2011, 10:06 AM
** ponders bringing up topic XXXXXXXX just to see what her avatar would look like when she logs on tomorrow night**


:e2tongue:

Polenth
07-05-2011, 10:18 AM
** ponders bringing up topic XXXXXXXX just to see what her avatar would look like when she logs on tomorrow night**

Sparkly and/or steampunked.

icenine
07-05-2011, 06:57 PM
Filesonic makes money from the illegal ebook downloads by charging premium accounts. On the ebook forum I mentioned, users are encouraged to take out premium accounts with Filesonic to get more ebooks, more quickly. The whole racket is sickening. There are zipped packages of an author's entire works in one single download being posted on site. Not always old books either. But it's the upload sites you need to target - if the sites/forums are taken down, they just pop up somewhere else after a while and start again.

Cyia
07-06-2011, 12:25 AM
Anyone dumb enough to download a zipfile from a sharing site probably isn't reading the books anyway ;)

ChaosTitan
07-06-2011, 01:31 AM
Okay. I'm not inviting or going to participate in the "debate", if it happens. But I am curious to know what this extreme animus toward the topic is. Is it not a significant issue?

caw

It's a hugely significant issue. However, every time it comes up the same people jump to the same sides, arguments go round and round, and the thread eventually gets locked.

That and it's off-topic for this particular thread.

brainstorm77
07-06-2011, 02:23 AM
Okay. I'm not inviting or going to participate in the "debate", if it happens. But I am curious to know what this extreme animus toward the topic is. Is it not a significant issue?

caw:deadhorseThat's why.

thebloodfiend
07-06-2011, 02:37 AM
The piratebay is rather anal about that sort of stuff. Their replies to cease and desist letters are hilarious. Since their servers are located in Sweden (or some small country in Europe) they're aren't obliged to remove any files.

4shared, rapidshare, and uploading.com will. But uploaders catch on quickly and have lots of mirrors. It's nearly impossible to remove every single file because as soon as it's taken down, a mirror is put up on another site. And often times, people just won't do anything.

Scribd removes copyrighted stuff almost immediately. Avax usually uses deposit files or hotfiles, neither of which remove links. I, personally, am not interested in contacting a mod and asking them to remove files, but it is possible. You'd basically have to sit in front of your computer with a google alert to a book like Vlad Tod pdf 1 and wait for the pirates to upload the book again. They're quite fast and some even sell ebooks (which IMO, is a million times worse than just pirating).

The attitude of the pirates you deal with really depends on the forum. Some of them are assholes, but others are kind of nice. Don't go on tehparadox or sinfuliphone and expect to talk someone out of uploading though. They don't care and they often post books out of spite. I do like the policy on burgomeister books. He's actually purchased the books and expects you to delete them (like an actual library).

Wesley Kang
07-14-2011, 12:41 AM
This is truly awful. I always wondered about this, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Torgo
07-14-2011, 12:45 AM
I do like the policy on burgomeister books. He's actually purchased the books and expects you to delete them (like an actual library).

The Burgomeister? If he was that fucking ethical we would have been able to lay him by the heels by now, the whole book trade having been after him for about five years. He's like some sort of frickin' book theft supervillain, hosted off a Mongolian server stuck in a hollowed-out volcano somewhere. He is not in the least bit cooperative

AeliusBlythe
07-19-2011, 08:34 PM
Let's keep this one strictly on the mechanics of having illegally posted stuff removed.

Ok, just the mechanics, then.
The mechanics are different whether you're talking about a site that actually hosts copyrighted files or a site that points to files on users computers. If a site actually hosts a file, then of course that file can be deleted. But for the most part this is not how people share material. If the file exists on many computers possibly all over the world it can't just be removed by deleting it from one site.
If you want to stop most sharing of copyrighted material...

1) watch all internet traffic in private homes for transfer of copyrighted material.
2) Compel ISPs to block internet access to offending individuals
3) watch all internet traffic on public computers
4) collect all personally identifying data on indiviuduals using public computers.
5) Compel those responsible for public computers (libraries, universities etc.) to ban access to offending individuals.
6) collect personally identifying data from individuals using public wifi networks on any personal devices.
7) compel any public wifi networks to ban offending individuals
8) criminalize use of proxies/VPNs/TOR or any attempts at anonymizing internet activities.
9) Invest in telescopes
10) Look through windows.

Worth it?



The piratebay is rather anal about that sort of stuff. Their replies to cease and desist letters are hilarious. Since their servers are located in Sweden (or some small country in Europe) they're aren't obliged to remove any files.

Actually TPB servers are located in many different countries, so in order to take them down some country (gee, I wonder who that would be....) would need to...
1) find the servers
2) force the countries to accept the original countries interpretation of copyright law
3) force the countries to investigate and raid individuals suspected of harboring the servers--probably through threats, as the US did to Sweden to get TPB.
4) force other countries ISPs to block offending sites
5) Hold meeting with Hu Jintao and emphasize, respectfully, that censorship is bad.


So you see there's a lot of .... co-operation .... involved.

Snitchcat
07-20-2011, 08:51 AM
Let's leave China out of this, please? Not sure bringing in politics to this thread is a good thing to do and last I looked, politics was not included in the definition of mechanics.

AeliusBlythe
07-20-2011, 06:00 PM
Let's leave China out of this, please? Not sure bringing in politics to this thread is a good thing to do and last I looked, politics was not included in the definition of mechanics.

Alright. How exactly would you describe the mechanics necessary to stop sharing of information between private computers spread all over the world? Or bring down a site with servers all over the world?

Snitchcat
07-20-2011, 10:08 PM
Hmmm. I feel your post is attacking me in some way -- its tone strikes me as antagonisic. So, I'll elaborate: I asked to leave politics and China out of this thread because "censorship is bad" is very subjective and plenty of background knowledge is required to understand its use in China. And said knowledge is not the limited surface information presented by "news entertainers". Which seem to be prevalent in various parts of the world these days.

That said, back to topic:

Instead of censoring all these illegal sites, why not harness some of them to work with you? They have the viral network set up and the power to use it effectively. Many people are looking to make a living. So instead of sticking them in overfull jails, give them an opportunity to make some honest money.

This won't shut down all illegal activity, but it would eliminate some of it.

If you can turn a negative into a socially beneficial positive, barring costs and hiccups, why not try? After all, if such an initiative succeeds, then everyone wins.

AeliusBlythe
07-21-2011, 04:23 AM
Hmmm. I feel your post is attacking me in some way -- its tone strikes me as antagonisic.
It was a direct question based on your statement. I'm not sure how that would be interpreted as antagonistic.


So, I'll elaborate: I asked to leave politics and China out of this thread because "censorship is bad" is very subjective and plenty of background knowledge is required to understand its use in China. And said knowledge is not the limited surface information presented by "news entertainers". Which seem to be prevalent in various parts of the world these days.
Whether or not you think censorship is bad wasn't the point. The point was the inconsistency of lawmakers condemning censorship while advocating pursuing file-sharers and file-sharing sites. My mistake if that was not clear. I guess I was too subtle.


That said, back to topic:

Instead of censoring all these illegal sites, why not harness some of them to work with you? They have the viral network set up and the power to use it effectively. Many people are looking to make a living. So instead of sticking them in overfull jails, give them an opportunity to make some honest money.

This won't shut down all illegal activity, but it would eliminate some of it.

If you can turn a negative into a socially beneficial positive, barring costs and hiccups, why not try? After all, if such an initiative succeeds, then everyone wins.

Working with file-sharing sites is a great idea, unfortunately many authors/publishers seem more interested in pursuing them than understanding and working with them.

Snitchcat
07-21-2011, 07:04 AM
First: you don't see how your post might come across as antagonistic because that is your viewpoint. I said it strikes me as such.

Second: I never said censorship is bad or not; I was quoting a sentence from your post:


5) Hold meeting with Hu Jintao and emphasize, respectfully, that censorship is bad.

Thank you for the clarification about condemnation. Perhaps looking at home before looking abroad would help here: as I understand it, there are still many States which have a law against obscenity. Is that good or bad? Does it matter? It's still censorship.

Anyhow, back to topic (and let's stay on topic this time):

As with everything else in this world that a group of people or an individual does not understand, knowledge is key. Not a preliminary scan of information, but in-depth, well-researched education about the subject. IMO, this is part of the mechanics of how to turn something negative, positive.

However, it strikes me that various authors/publishers want control over every part of the process that their books go through, even after they're launched. Understandable though that is, IMO, it's also a waste of energy: You can influence, persuade, or otherwise convince the reading public that the books are brilliant. However, you cannot control what they will do with it. Or what anyone else will do with the work once it's out in the market.

This is the same as saying, Person A wants to control how Person B thinks. About as productive.

Clearly, there are people who will never see this point. For them, it will always be about shutting down everything illegal, even if it means implementing censorship and forcing others to swallow their viewpoint. I don't understand how that would be effective.

So, bringing it back round:

My preferred (major and simplified) mechanics would work this way:


Educate the authors / publishers about file-sharing (this includes pointing out the disadvantages and advantages without bias)



Harness the power of the file-sharing sites for marketing purposes (e.g., turn illegal ones (that are willing to cooperate) into honest, law-abiding ones, thus giving those behind them a chance to make an ethical living (you'd be surprised how many just want to do that, but have been pushed into something they don't like because it was either (let their family) starve or tolerate the risk of going to jail))



Harness the power of the illegal ones willing to cooperate to help shut down the ones that insist on staying illegal



And cooperate with the willing sites in such a way that they retain their cultural heritage and practices, while you retain yours, aka, don't impose your culture's values and methods on another's (cooperation efforts run much more smoothly if different cultures can respect each other)

AeliusBlythe
07-21-2011, 07:45 AM
Aside from this part I agree with you (as previously stated):


Harness the power of the illegal ones willing to cooperate to help shut down the ones that insist on staying illegal