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RiseBeauty
06-25-2011, 06:01 PM
Okay, here's what brought this Q to mind. My nephews are avid readers (Harry P in the house!...Hollahhhh!) but they love it the most when I read to them. I often buy books that I read them over the phone since I live 2000 miles away. Last summer they were between books so I began writing them personalized chapter books with them as the main characters plus familiar people and places that branch off into the adventure. For example one started off with them playing in the woods behind their house and then suddenly...! From there their known world takes wild detours into magic and suspense.

They went nuts for this and now prefer their "own" stories over others. When I mentioned this to someone the other day she asked, "Since they love them so much, why don't you try to sell them?" But I told her that the stories belong to my nephews. I don't intend to publish them for pay. I wrote them exclusively for their personal enjoyment. She then said, "Why write them if they're not for sale?"

And that's my question for Awers. Do you write anything that's not for sale? If so, what and why? This excludes writing exercises, stories you trunked, etc.

My answer to this question might be obvious---I wrote them for the kids! I write fiction for adults but don't write children's books or YA other than for them.

I'm really curious about your answers. Thanks in advance for your replies AWers! :)

Cyia
06-25-2011, 06:29 PM
Anyone who's ever written fanfiction has written fiction not for sale.

You get writing practice, and it can cheer someone up if they're having a bad day. You also get the gratification of knowing someone's read your writing, even if FF readers aren't exactly the most selective readers in the world.

bearilou
06-25-2011, 07:09 PM
And that's my question for Awers. Do you write anything that's not for sale? If so, what and why? This excludes writing exercises, stories you trunked, etc.

Yes I do. Fanfiction on occasion, not as much as I used to. Sometimes I have small vignettes that stick in my head that I'm simply not interested in trying to clean up and find an audience.

No real reason why I don't try to sell them other than I DON'T WANNA. :Shrug:

It actually ruffles my feathers (fins? murlocs don't have feathers) when people are allowed to have other hobbies or things they do simply because it gives them pleasure to do so but the moment it happens in writing, people immediately hone in on the 'make money' aspect of it, as if they have some glamorous ideal that writers make scads of money. Or implying that writing for pleasure is a waste of time. 'Don't waste your time, do it for money.'

:Headbang:

shadowwalker
06-25-2011, 07:15 PM
I've written a ton of fanfiction, so definitely not for sale. It was something I enjoyed doing, made me force myself to really think about writing and all the things one has to do to tell a good story, and it made me feel good when people let me know they enjoyed my writing. On days when I'm getting discouraged by my current projects, I still look at those emails to give myself a boost :D

Absolutely no reason a person can't write just for the pleasure of it, without thought of making a buck.

Maryn
06-25-2011, 07:55 PM
Sure, I write things I never intended to sell. Some I can't, and I knew that when I wrote the fanfiction. Others I wrote for my own amusement, as a learning tool, to experiment, and similar reasons. Sometimes those went well enough that I later attempted a sale, but more often, they remained what they started, as entertainment, education, or experiment.

Maryn, who's got scads on her hard drive which will never sell

gothicangel
06-25-2011, 07:56 PM
You know, my current WIP was supposed to be fanfiction then Marcus just sprang from my imagination and took control.

dgaughran
06-25-2011, 08:02 PM
Sometimes I write things for my own amusement, and might show them to friends, but they are not for sale.

I've toyed with the idea of writing stories for my nieces, but I haven't been able to get into it yet.

However, if they genuinely loved them, I would consider selling them, why not? I could always use a pseudonym.

DeleyanLee
06-25-2011, 08:07 PM
I write things not for sale quite often. The reason is: Because I want to write the story for someone (even if it's me) and it's for them. Screw publication. There's more to writing than publication. I just think it's sad that people don't realize that.

kaitie
06-25-2011, 08:26 PM
I wrote a couple of long short stories/novellas that were just for practice and I never intend to sell those. I knew that going into it. I wrote it at the same time a friend was writing one, and we had fun combining our characters into one story that we were telling different parts of. It was purely just for kicks and no one else has ever read it and I'm okay with that.

I've also done the fanfiction thing.

Misa Buckley
06-25-2011, 08:28 PM
There's more to writing than publication. I just think it's sad that people don't realize that.

QFT.

shelleyo
06-25-2011, 08:41 PM
I've written fanfiction since I was about 9. I have also occasionally written stories for friends. And sometimes I have an idea that I love that I know probably isn't marketable, but I'll write it anyway, just for me.

Shelley

Adam
06-25-2011, 09:05 PM
Only some shorts a few years ago while I was new to it. The rest is written to sell. I couldn't care less if that makes me 'sad'.

If a story is solely for me, I don't need to write it down in the first place.

shaldna
06-25-2011, 09:20 PM
I write fiction that;s 'not for sale' most notably a three book (65k each) YA series for my three best friends. No one else has ever seen it other than me and them. And most likely they never will. It was written for them, as a gift, and that's as far as that goes.

scarletpeaches
06-25-2011, 09:27 PM
There's more to writing than publication. I just think it's sad that people don't realize that.Pardon me for wanting to be paid for the work I put in. :rolleyes:

I've never not wanted to be published. Time is money, and you're damn right I want payback. I find usually the people who bleat about publication not being the be-all and end-all of writing either can't get published, or infrequently manage to achieve such a state.

Right back as a kid, I never wrote just for the sake of it. I always had that end goal in sight.

More to writing than publication? Sure. Makes me wonder why people who write exclusively just for 'fun' join AW. I thought we were here to improve? If you're not trying to be published, there's no need to improve.

Well, whatever. I write to be published. I guess I'm a sell-out.

A sell-out with a big, fat royalties cheque.

Soccer Mom
06-25-2011, 09:30 PM
I've written stuff for my kids just to entertain them. I used to write and sell my flash fiction. I'm too busy with novels to mess with all the subbing involved in selling shorts, but sometimes I still write them if I get an idea that won't let me alone.

Nothing wrong with writing stuff just because you wanna.

shadowwalker
06-25-2011, 09:37 PM
More to writing than publication? Sure. Makes me wonder why people who write exclusively just for 'fun' join AW. I thought we were here to improve? If you're not trying to be published, there's no need to improve.

Well, whatever. I write to be published. I guess I'm a sell-out.

A sell-out with a big, fat royalties cheque.

I don't think there's anything wrong with writing only for publication - or writing only for one's own enjoyment. But why shouldn't those who write for their enjoyment (or friends/relatives) not try to improve? Isn't one of the joys of *any* hobby being able to get better and better at it? Before I had any thought of trying to get published, I still wanted to become the best writer I could be.

I don't think either "enjoyment" or "publish" factions should be making judgments about the other. And after all, there are quite a few who do both, and manage quite happily.

scarletpeaches
06-25-2011, 09:39 PM
Pardon me. My hackles rise when the suggestions made it's sad that people don't accept there's more to writing than publication.

For me, there isn't. That is to say, it's an ever-present goal for me. There's more to writing than publication in that there are steps to take along the way, but publication is the end-goal.

Writing for fun don't pay the rent, yo.

(God. Did I just say yo?)

shelleyo
06-25-2011, 09:39 PM
Jesus. Nobody is wrong.

99% of what I've written has been for publication. The rest was for fun, for me, or for somebody else.

If someone wants to write 99% of their stuff for them alone, good for them, fewer submissions to compete against. I'm not a sell-out, that person isn't silly.

I write for a living. It solely pays my bills. I will still occasionally write a piece of fan fiction about a character I love. I'm fine.

Shelley

bearilou
06-25-2011, 09:42 PM
Pardon me for wanting to be paid for the work I put in. :rolleyes:

I've never not wanted to be published. Time is money, and you're damn right I want payback. I find usually the people who bleat about publication not being the be-all and end-all of writing either can't get published, or infrequently manage to achieve such a state.

Right back as a kid, I never wrote just for the sake of it. I always had that end goal in sight.

More to writing than publication? Sure. Makes me wonder why people who write exclusively just for 'fun' join AW. I thought we were here to improve? If you're not trying to be published, there's no need to improve.

Well, whatever. I write to be published. I guess I'm a sell-out.

A sell-out with a big, fat royalties cheque.


I don't think anyone is suggesting that writing with an eye toward publication is 'sad' or wrong-headed. I'm certainly not.

I crochet because I love to. I have a lot of things I've crocheted that I won't ever try to sell because that's not why I created them. I just like to crochet.

Because I like to crochet and don't ever intend to sell anything doesn't mean that I'm not constantly and consistently trying to improve my skills as a crocheter. I love being able to take on more challenging patterns and see something come of my hard work.

I'm still not going to sell it. I just like to crochet.

Why is writing any different than that?

And just because I like to write certain things that I don't intend to sell, doesn't mean I'm not writing something that I intend to sell. Nor does it mean that I'm still not interested in writing my best, just because it's not something I won't be selling.

I don't know. Maybe I'm not any good as a writer and will never get sold because I'm trying to write things with no intention of getting sold and that I'm writing for the sheer enjoyment of writing and trying to improve my abilities quietly.

And maybe I didn't read the comments deeply enough but I don't think anyone so far as said they write strictly for fun, only that they have written strictly for fun and that it's not exactly encouraging that once someone finds out, the pressure's on to publish it.

shelleyo
06-25-2011, 09:43 PM
I don't think there's anything wrong with writing only for publication - or writing only for one's own enjoyment. But why shouldn't those who write for their enjoyment (or friends/relatives) not try to improve? Isn't one of the joys of *any* hobby being able to get better and better at it? Before I had any thought of trying to get published, I still wanted to become the best writer I could be.

I don't think either "enjoyment" or "publish" factions should be making judgments about the other. And after all, there are quite a few who do both, and manage quite happily.

I'm sure many hobby writers do try to improve. Most people who have hobbies that they enjoy and do for reasons other than income tend to try to do the best they can at it. Every time I wrote a piece of fan fiction as a kid and a teenager, I was struggling to improve. Not all fan fiction writers do--okay, most don't--but I wanted it to be good, not just there. And that was solely a non-income hobby.

Shelley

scarletpeaches
06-25-2011, 09:44 PM
Of course, without the goal of publication in mind, there's no obligation to actually finish anything...

Now, where's my saucer of milk? :D

bearilou
06-25-2011, 09:45 PM
Of course, without the goal of publication in mind, there's no obligation to actually finish anything...

Now, where's my saucer of milk? :D

I'm not putting any out for you. Your teeth are sharp!

scarletpeaches
06-25-2011, 09:47 PM
Fangs. They're fangs. :e2teeth:

blacbird
06-25-2011, 11:16 PM
My history of practical results has led to the conclusion that all of my work is not for sale.

shelleyo
06-25-2011, 11:23 PM
My history of practical results has led to the conclusion that all of my work is not for sale.

:(

Have you and Eeyore ever been in the same room at the same time?

Shelley

RiseBeauty
06-25-2011, 11:28 PM
Thanks for all of your replies!

I also emailed the Q to a few friends that aren't on AW but are authors at various stages of their careers. One of them used to write fake humorous biographies (just about 5-20 pages) about his girlfriend and give them to her as gifts every Christmas. They were different every year, more and more outlandish each time. She loved them and he loved writing them. It's one of the reasons why she married him:tongue He said he still does this and she appreciates it even more now that he's an author who makes enough to give them a very comfortable lifestyle. Since his royalties bought their house and sent their kids to good schools, he said those bios shot up in value, lol. And no, she won't sell 'em on eBay.

I begged...but he won't let me read any of them :( He'd only say that in some of them she's not always "human"....

Jamesaritchie
06-26-2011, 12:01 AM
No. Nothing at all wrong with writing something you never intend to publish, but it's definitely not in my mindset. I've written quite a few stories that my kids loved, but I always figured that if they loved them, so would other kids, so why not share?

Sheer entertainment is what publishable fiction is all about. Entertainment is what you have to have in mind when you write, or you'll never sell anything.

For me, it's easy to please a kid or five, but the real test is putting it on the market and learning whether it's good enough to please large numbers of people I don't know, who have no feelings for me, and who are very tough to make happy.

It's just what I do. I write for sheer entertainment, but I don't believe there's any way to know whether I've actually succeeded as well as I wish without putting the piece on the market. And if I have succeeded, I may as well be paid for it.

AmsterdamAssassin
06-26-2011, 01:25 AM
I've written gory stories for my girlfriends, to get them in the mood for when I came around, so they'd be all moist and willing...
I've written hilarious scary letters to employers to point out the errors of their ways...
They can be sold when everybody involved is dead and buried. Including me.

DeleyanLee
06-26-2011, 05:59 PM
Pardon me. My hackles rise when the suggestions made it's sad that people don't accept there's more to writing than publication.

Sorry, SP, but this isn't about you. My comment wasn't aimed at any writer, but at the non-writers who discover we're writers.

It irks me that the FIRST question out of anyone's mouth when they first find out that I'm a writer is "Ever have anything published?" Like that's the only validation writing can have for anyone, regardless at what stage you're at in your writing.

People who don't do have this concept that if you're not already published when they talk to you, then you're not really doing anything important and you're wasting your time. And if you HAVE been published, they'd better have heard of you somewhere or then you haven't been published "enough" and what you're doing still doesn't matter and is totally dismissive. Unless you're Nora Roberts or J. K. Rowling or Stephen King or some other celebrity writer, then they feel completely justified in telling you that you're wasting your life and you should do something more important. Even more, they don't care to hear about the facts of how writing and publishing actually works. They believe the fairy tale of the mega-million super-rich author and they don't want to be educated.

It's possible that you've never experienced it or, if you have, you've blown them out of the water because of your strong personality. That's great for you. Not everyone has the benefit of your confidence and bravado to get them through external attitude about something they're equally passionate about.

Carrie in PA
06-26-2011, 06:55 PM
I've written a lot of stuff for my kid, a lot of it variations of fairy tales (some that included Goldilocks meeting an untimely demise as punishment for breaking and entering. LOL) He enjoyed them, and other kids might enjoy them, but those stories were... private. They were a nice thing that just he and I shared. That's not for sale.

Several years back, PeeDee & I co-wrote a series of Variety Hours for AW that were a huge investment of time and effort, but that was purely for fun.

I've written a lot of stories that were theraputic... those will never see the light of day.

My novels, however, I want those puppies SOLD!!

backslashbaby
06-26-2011, 08:42 PM
I write a lot of things that arent for sale because I gave them away (or basically did) on people's sites, to tiny publishers, etc. I'm not always interested in the whole submissions process. But I do want them read :) They were written to be read.

AmsterdamAssassin
06-26-2011, 09:34 PM
It's possible that you've never experienced it or, if you have, you've blown them out of the water because of your strong personality. That's great for you. Not everyone has the benefit of your confidence and bravado to get them through external attitude about something they're equally passionate about.

Or you look like the kind of person it would be ill adviced to pick a fight with. I think that's the case with me, because people might joke 'hey, haven't you finished that book yet', but nobody ever told me that I was wasting my time writing.

scarletpeaches
06-26-2011, 09:43 PM
It irks me that the FIRST question out of anyone's mouth when they first find out that I'm a writer is "Ever have anything published?" Like that's the only validation writing can have for anyone, regardless at what stage you're at in your writing.Controversial of me to say this, but...it's the best validation you're ever going to get. "You've written something so good that I want to pay you for it, and make it available to other people!" Who wouldn't accept that?
It's possible that you've never experienced it or, if you have, you've blown them out of the water because of your strong personality.Oh dear God; that just shows how little you knew me way back when. I have experienced it and no, I didn't blow anyone out of the water with the force of my personality.

It's not that I never experience ridicule because of my strong personality. I have a strong personality because I have experienced ridicule.
Not everyone has the benefit of your confidence and bravado to get them through external attitude about something they're equally passionate about.I didn't have the benefit of my confidence and bravado until I got over myself, owned it, and started telling people to suck my fat one if they didn't think I was a writer.

DeleyanLee
06-26-2011, 09:55 PM
Controversial of me to say this, but...it's the best validation you're ever going to get.

Actually, and this is probably just personal, but the best validation I've ever gotten was my own satisfaction at a story well told--regardless of whether or not it sold. But, that's me and the results of my own run-ins with ridicule and rejection.

Everyone's path is different.

Kenra Daniels
06-27-2011, 01:08 AM
As a preschool teacher, I wrote and illustrated lots of children's stories to go with my lesson plans. I suppose some of them might still be in use somewhere - I left a bunch at every center I worked at while hubby was in the military, and after he got out as well. When I got sick and couldn't work any more, I sold all my activity materials, including the stories I had at the time.

I spent about 20 years writing the occasional short story just for the hell of it. I started several novels in various genres, but never finished them. I had other priorities at the time. Before that, I wrote with publication as a goal, but I lacked the determination to follow through and really try. These days, I write to be published, but I still occasionally work on a piece not intended for public viewing.

skylark
06-27-2011, 01:57 AM
Stacks of fanfic. When I say stacks, I mean I'm pushing a million words, polished and posted.

Why would I want to improve? Apart from personal pride, because my fandom's highly selective archive site doesn't take crap, and I'd like to get everything I write selected for it, rather than the about 50% I manage at the moment.

I had to laugh at the comment about never needing to finish anything. I'm taking part in a fic swap right now. Deadline's two weeks today. I either submit (and what I submit is posted online as-is) or I'm publicly listed as defaulting on something I committed to write (before I knew what the topic would be, btw).

I guess I didn't need to enter, but then no wannabe pro writer needs to submit anything either.

I honestly think there'd be a lot fewer people for the likes of PublishAmerica to get their claws into if it was accepted that the way writers start out is just like the way athletes or musicians start out - by taking part as unpaid amateurs for fun and practice. I really dislike this everyone must get published at all costs attitude. If it's all that matters to an individual, fine. It shouldn't be expected to be all that matters to all individuals. I mean, I could probably have chosen to be a really low level pro violinist. Instead I chose to be a high level computer programmer and play the violin for fun. But in music, that's common and normal. In writing?

scarletpeaches, I couldn't care less whether you want to be paid for the work you put in - that's your choice. I do care that you look down your nose at me and make snide comments about my inability to be published based on the fact that I write for fun. As it happens, I've yet to try to be published. Though I do beta-read for four or five people who have. Been published, that is, not tried.

Can't you accept that there's more to writing than your personal little corner of it? And that some of it might actually be high quality?

(By "care", I mean "have to resist the urge to respond in a way which would get me yelled at by a mod." I don't "care" what you think of me - you're just one in the vast crowd who make that default assumption about my quality of writing and my pride in my writing based solely on my income from writing. But it does make me cross when my fellow writers are so casually judgemental.)

CACTUSWENDY
06-27-2011, 01:57 AM
Ah, do you mean intentional or unintentional? You know there is a difference.....;) I can only assume that mine will be all 'not for sale'. :roll:

scarletpeaches
06-27-2011, 02:19 AM
Can't you accept that there's more to writing than your personal little corner of it? And that some of it might actually be high quality?Can't you accept I might have been referring to someone other than yourself?

Jersey Chick
06-27-2011, 02:44 AM
I have a series (so far three complete books and two in progress) that I wrote because I had an idea for one and it spawned from there. I doubt I'll ever seek publication for them because they are outside my usual genre and I don't have the time or energy right now to establish myself a second time over.

But that's not to say I won't ever sub them somewhere. It's just not on my list of priorities right now.

And knowing they will never see the light of day beyond my office hasn't kept me from finishing those two unfinished (or any other project, for that matter.) Just the opposite, really. I work on them when I want to, so they'll get done because it's a case of wanting to finish rather than having to finish, if that makes any sense. There just isn't any pressure for it, so if it takes me a year, who cares?

JimmyB27
06-28-2011, 03:38 PM
Pardon me. My hackles rise when the suggestions made it's sad that people don't accept there's more to writing than publication.

For me, there isn't. That is to say, it's an ever-present goal for me. There's more to writing than publication in that there are steps to take along the way, but publication is the end-goal.
See, the thing is, you're guilty of the very thing you complain about. For YOU there isn't anything more to writing than being published, but why should someone else not write just because they like to? Or, like the OP, because their nephews like to hear stories starring themselves.


Writing for fun don't pay the rent, yo.

(God. Did I just say yo?)No, it doesn't. But why should it? Have you never had a hobby or interest that you did just for the love of it, with no thought of getting paid?

I think it's great that you're doing everything to get published (and have been, iirc), but why should everyone else have the same goal as you?

(PS: Yes, you did just say 'yo'.)

Mr Flibble
06-28-2011, 04:13 PM
I've written stories that were never meant for sale. Two that were as a result of prompts in the SFF forum and one from the SFF secret santa I have on my website as 'free reads'. GOt a very nice compliment a couple of months ago about the secret santa one. ('I thought it was going to be all romantic, and it was, but I had to keep reading!') I also belong to a group blog that releases a free read every week - there's 26 of us, so we each do one short every six months. We might make an anthology out of them at some point, but mainly they are there for 'Look, this is how I write, if you like it, you might like one of my books'


Then there is my comfort writing - a hideously cheesy fanfic that no one else will ever see. Cheers me up on the days I wonder why the heck I bother, you know? Sometimes I just want to write for fun.

quicksand
06-28-2011, 04:43 PM
I write short fiction, but short ficion pays so little that it might as well not be for the money. Getting a short story published is more about the glory and satisfaction, not for very small payment that you get for a short story.

Even so, like scarletpeaches, I'm in this game for the money. I write short stories so that I can experiment with different styles, settings, and genres, and find my voice. Ultimately that might make me a better writer for the things that count - books - but it's not for the money.

RiseBeauty
06-28-2011, 06:04 PM
Wow, I didn't anticipate that this would inspire a debate. I was simply curious about other reasons why people write besides being paid. But it has definitely been interesting to read the various POV's people have about this topic. IMO, I don't care whether someone is a hobbyist or hitting the NYT bestseller list. Their reasons for their 'side-writing' is what interests me most.

Again, in my case those stories for my nephews yielded a payoff that is very different, but no less valuable to me, than being paid for what I've written. Several others have had this experience in some way and I've enjoyed reading about them. That's part of what I love about AW. It's a forum where you can holler over the fence to others drawn to this craft and say, "Hey! Is this in your yard too?" And get answers. Sometimes a very wide range of them.

And one more thing, and I really don't intend this to be inflammatory but only as my sincerest opinion, but the world of writing/publishing is tough enough without us looking down on one another when we're often the only allies we have in this fight. Sometimes other folks 'get' what we do and why, sometimes they don't. All too often the non-writing world wants a writer to stand up and explain himself. Are you published? Where? Have I read anything you've written? And even when they have (though it's published and paid) they ain't always a fan. Not to mention that to even make it to that point there were thousands of thankless hours getting that story into a readable/saleable and entertaining form. And probably countless submissions and elbow grease to get it repped with a buttload of rejection slips behind it too before an acceptance finally came. We put ourselves out there every day with publishers, agents, readers, reviewers, etc with our blood and sweat staining the work we offer with no guarantees that we'll be rewarded in ways others recognize as valuable. This of course leaves out all the humiliating moments of doubt and self-criticism that arrived with that lengthy process.

But the non-writing world don't think about that, do they? Not much. But we do. And having people who understand what it took to get there is worth its weight in Solomon's gold. We catch enough BS as writers and are constantly held up to such arbitrary standards of success from "are you published?" to "y'know, your last book in that series sucked, right?"

It just never friggin' ends....

Giving each other the same rough treatment over our personal choices just seems like overkill to me. Honestly, I don't mean what I've written above as fuel to the fire. If anything, I'd hope it would promote some understanding because our feet all stand on the same, sometimes quite rocky, ground no matter where we are in our level of achievement.

I simply wanted to hear about some of the other writing we do. Some projects that don't enter into that process and present some satisfaction elsewhere. And thanks to all who threw your hats into the ring to respond.

Now let's hold hands and sing kooom-bye-ahhhhhh, and thank our lucky stars that there's a place we can meet as writers that can provide not only education, networking, and friendship among other delights but also a little peace, shall we?

Misa Buckley
06-29-2011, 01:12 AM
Those that don't write and don't read that much are always going to ask the publication question. And probably follow it up with the inane "I'm going to write a book one day."

Just smile, nod and kill off a character based on them in your next story :D

Writing doesn't have to be a business. It's fine if that's what you want, but it's also fine if it's not. Everyone is different. Everyone wants different things. For me, it's one of the few ways I've found to maintain my mental health. That I have managed to sell some of my work is a bonus, but that's not why I write.

I don't write to sell, I write to be read. And yes, there is a difference.

scarletpeaches
06-29-2011, 01:15 AM
...why should everyone else have the same goal as you?

(PS: Yes, you did just say 'yo'.)I don't remember saying they should. But there are too many people who say "I write for the love of it, not to get published." That's fair enough, if it's true.

They still submit to publishers though, so clearly publication is a goal for them. You don't 'accidentally' sell a manuscript.

(And God. I'm so ashamed.)

Phaeal
06-29-2011, 01:31 AM
My bestest beta and I write Christmas stories for each other. Sometimes they're fanfic, and are then unpublishable. Other times they're original fic, and then we feel free to sub the hell out of them.

I sub the hell out of everything I write these days. These MSS need to understand that I'm going to SUB THEIR LAZY ASSES UNTIL THEY GET THEIR DAMN SELVES PUBLISHED ALREADY. None of this whiny crawling off into a trunk for my MSS, no way. Like the Badger with his big stick, I'll learn 'em.

Emptyeye
06-29-2011, 01:37 AM
Sure.

I wrote a couple short stories that, upon re-reading, I realized "This was great therapy for me. It is not, however, a very good story."

Goldenleaves
06-29-2011, 02:44 AM
I write because I do. Because now I can. I've had some tame bits and pieces published and did turn down a chance of publication for a full work because - lets just say mental problems. I've only recently begun to have enough confidence to actually write what I want to without worrying what anyone else may or may not think. Time was I could hardly bear to let anyone read anything I wrote.

I like to think it'll get published, I want some money, but the freedom of actually creating something I want to, shaping what I actually enjoy, and not giving a rat's whisker what anyone thinks about it is so weird to me I haven't got to thinking about much else yet.

If the WIP takes time to get published I don't care, I have the next one to work on. And the one after that.

AmsterdamAssassin
06-29-2011, 02:51 AM
I doubt if I'll ever be able to sell Captain Smegma and the Tranny from the Sewer of Sorrows. No matter how much ScarletPreacher endorses it.

Fruitbat
06-29-2011, 02:59 AM
I've written gory stories for my girlfriends, to get them in the mood for when I came around, so they'd be all moist and willing...
I've written hilarious scary letters to employers to point out the errors of their ways...
They can be sold when everybody involved is dead and buried. Including me.

ROFL!

DancingMaenid
06-29-2011, 03:49 AM
I've never not wanted to be published. Time is money, and you're damn right I want payback. I find usually the people who bleat about publication not being the be-all and end-all of writing either can't get published, or infrequently manage to achieve such a state.

I've never really tried to get published, to be honest. I've submitted to a few small contests, and have done fairly well in them, though they're hardly big enough to give me bragging rights. I've also "worked" for free on some websites. But I haven't submitted for payment yet. I'd like to give it a try eventually, but it's not something I've made a priority.


More to writing than publication? Sure. Makes me wonder why people who write exclusively just for 'fun' join AW. I thought we were here to improve? If you're not trying to be published, there's no need to improve.

I joined because I love writing and love discussing it. Writing will probably always be my main passion in life.

I try to improve because I'm passionate about the craft and it's important to be to be good at the things I do.

I mean, the way I look at it, publication isn't a big goal of mine, so improving and becoming a better writer is the main thing in it for me beside having fun.

But yeah, to answer the main thread question, I write a lot of stuff without the intention of publishing it. For me, if I wrote only things that I thought could sell, I probably wouldn't write. I'm too inclined to be critical of my own work, and some of my stuff is a little out there.

I also write a lot of fanfic, which is obviously purely a labor of love.

adarkfox
06-29-2011, 05:52 AM
I figured I need a vacation sometimes.. and so do the characters. If I'm stuck in my WIP I will go off on a tangent with the same characters in a completely different setting/stage of life/anything. Or visit backstory on some random odd character just to explore.

It's play for me. No one will ever pay me to play- and I don't expect anyone too. There's stuff that's "for sale"... others "for rent" (that I share with a few others)... and "the playground". I'm a kid at heart so I'm never selling the playground.

Lyra Jean
06-29-2011, 06:29 AM
While I've never written them down my brother and I have a shared universe of a chef and his best friend a T-Rex who own a restaurant together.

Even if I did get to writing them down and I do want to one of these days I'll probably never sell them only because it's just a fun family thing I never saw as a way to make money to begin with.

If I could draw I would turn it into a comic and post it on the web though.

scarletpeaches
06-29-2011, 04:47 PM
I doubt if I'll ever be able to sell Captain Smegma and the Tranny from the Sewer of Sorrows. No matter how much ScarletPreacher endorses it.Anyone who turns that down is an idiot who doesn't know talent when he or she sees it.

JimmyB27
06-29-2011, 05:32 PM
I don't remember saying they should. But there are too many people who say "I write for the love of it, not to get published." That's fair enough, if it's true.

They still submit to publishers though, so clearly publication is a goal for them. You don't 'accidentally' sell a manuscript.

(And God. I'm so ashamed.)
Could that subbing not just be more of a happy bonus rather than an actual goal? My dad's been into photography most of his adult life, but he's only pursued publication since retiring, as he now has the time to research markets etc.

scarletpeaches
06-29-2011, 05:33 PM
If someone says they don't care about being published, while trying to get published, I have to wonder how honest they're being with themselves.

JimmyB27
06-29-2011, 05:38 PM
If someone says they don't care about being published, while trying to get published, I have to wonder how honest they're being with themselves.
I'd agree with that.

muravyets
06-29-2011, 07:10 PM
I would agree with that as well.

However, of course, that has nothing to do with with people who try to get one thing published while writing other things they don't plan to get published. It's possible to do both, as there are different reasons for writing different things, as several posters have said. For another example, I periodically put a lot of time and effort into collaborative fiction with friends that is, essentially, a free toss-away, never to be published or paid for. We do it for laughs and happy-fun times, and as a writing exercise. For me, it's a character incubator/proving ground, as well as an exercise in getting over first draft control-freak/commitment-phobe issues. It's entirely separate from the now and future novels I'm writing with the goal of publication, and the benefit it gives me is real and I hope it will help me improve as a writer, even though it doesn't pay the bills.

I would also say scarletpeaches' comment does not apply to those who write without a plan for publication (heh, my fingers always want to follow "plan for" with "world domination; why is that?) but change their mind later when circumstances change or an opportunity comes up. Deciding to publish at some point or other does not invalidate the statement that publication is not a person's primary reason for writing, surely.

But people who pish-tish the goal of publication as if it's the last thing on their purely artistic minds, while they are secretly subbing like mad and hiding all their rejections -- yeah, I'd say they are engaging in some sour grape sucking there.

Jess Haines
06-29-2011, 11:46 PM
If someone says they don't care about being published, while trying to get published, I have to wonder how honest they're being with themselves.

I also agree with this.

Back to the original topic at hand--I've written hundreds of thousands of words in fanfic, stories I wrote for no one but myself, and online RPGs. I may be published, but first and foremost, I write for fun.

AmsterdamAssassin
06-30-2011, 01:58 AM
Anyone who turns that down is an idiot who doesn't know talent when he or she sees it.

I love you. And I hate myself for that... :D

blacbird
06-30-2011, 10:43 AM
If someone says they don't care about being published, while trying to get published, I have to wonder how honest they're being with themselves.

I catch hell here every time I say something like this. How come you don't?

caw

scarletpeaches
06-30-2011, 11:07 AM
I catch hell here every time I say something like this. How come you don't?

cawProbably because 99% of your posts are negative.

99% of my posts are ballsy.

The trick is to scare people out of arguing with you.

McCaw

jaksen
06-30-2011, 04:01 PM
I wrote a whole series of stories for a Swedish guy I met online. (Purely Platonic Relationship; we met over shared love of a particular type of electronic music.)

I had him and me saving the world multiple times. The stories were sort of zaftig-bizarro-out of this world. He was always chasing women; I was always trying to drag him back to the mission at hand. There were persons on a shared site who we hated (anti-music lovers) and I built villains around their personalities. (But altered the names and some of these people became fans of the stories, never realizing they were part of it.) The whole enterprise was pure nonsense and I posted some on a site he had. Those who read them thought them wildly hilarious, foolish, sometimes infantile, other times incomprehensible. He and I inhabited this weird, almost parallel-like universe for a few months.

So yeah, I've done this.

And btw, op, when these boys become young men, that might be the time to look over the stories and think, hey, if they liked them...maybe I can sell them so other children can enjoy them. The boys might like the idea, too.

blacbird
07-01-2011, 08:40 AM
Probably because 99% of your posts are negative.

73.65%. I did some math.

caw

scarletpeaches
07-01-2011, 02:46 PM
I stand corrected.

McCaw

shaldna
07-01-2011, 03:26 PM
73.65%. I did some math.




64.7% of all statistics are made up.

whimsical rabbit
07-03-2011, 04:53 PM
I'm writing because I love writing. So presumably when you do something you love, you're doing it for yourself. So yes, I'm writing for myself.

I haven't tried to get published yet. Laziness, fear, growing up, learning, drafting and redrafting. With all that, I have fourteen years of writing experience, doing a cw phd and beta-reading for amazing authors/writers.

Do I want to get published?

Hell, yeah. Now that I've finally taken this seriously, put my bum down, felt confident and even happy with my writing skills, and even more comfortable with the idea of constant struggle and amelioration, now's the time I want to be published more than ever before.

I believe I'm a good writer. If I get published, and people have the chance to read my work, they may believe so too.

The way I see it, publication is a reward you get for your hard work, persistence, refusal to accept defeat, open-mindedness and, well, that satisfaction of one's vanity I guess. :D

mistri
07-04-2011, 02:09 AM
I've done both - but while money isn't always a goal, I do like to reach an audience no matter what.

Yeah, I'm talking about fanfic. I was into it for a bit, for a particular fandom, and doubt I'll ever do it again. But for a while there I had great fun, feeling free to write whatever I wanted (mostly, so long as two characters always ended up together) and knowing there would be people ready to lap it up. Though it's true you could write crap and still have fans, certain people would only comment on the good stories and I did get a thrill from that. It was really, really fun.

The majority of the time, however, I do write with publication and money in mind - because a) money is nice and b) publishers can get me to an audience as well.

At the same time, I can see myself writing stuff that isn't for sale again. Perhaps not fanfic (that was a 'particular point in my life' type thing), but maybe stuff for my son or grandkids. There is a real reward in writing for people who love your work even when money isn't involved. No shame in insisting on being paid though.

Steph King
07-23-2011, 11:37 PM
I wrote a children's story with my 8 year old son because he was feeling left out from my writing endeavours.

It was read out in his class at school, and we have a certain amount of pressure from the class to finish the follow up because they are looking forward to it, but that is as far as they will go. They are ours, written for fun, and I am not interested in having them criticised, rejected, or the shiny rubbed off them for him in any other way.

Incredible way to improve literacy in disinterested children, by the way. I absolutely recommend it for writing parents.

Sevvy
07-24-2011, 12:55 AM
I've thought of some stories that I knew would be too outrageous for publication, but still wanted to write them, so I did. I also wrote a lot of stories I wasn't going to sell when I was younger, before I even wanted to be a writer. In fact, I've come up with lots of stories that, while I love them, I know aren't really publishable. I just tell them to myself when I'm bored and waiting in a line or something.

Emerson
07-24-2011, 01:04 AM
I guess it depends what you mean by the question.

The phrase "not for sale" implies that you will not sell it. I can't imagine anyone writing anything "not for sale." If someone came up to you and offered to publish your story, I imagine you would do so whether that was your original intent or not.

If you mean "do you write stories without a desire to sell them?" then yeah, I have done and am sure many do.

Bracken
07-24-2011, 01:24 AM
Anyone write stories "not for sale"?

Hellz no. Not I.
All of my stories are for sale... and since nobody wants to buy them, I just give them away for free. :tongue

I want my stories to reach the widest possible audience.
That's all.

AmsterdamAssassin
07-24-2011, 01:33 AM
I've thought of some stories that I knew would be too outrageous for publication, but still wanted to write them, so I did.

Like Captain Smegma and the Tranny from the Sewer of Sorrows? That's what I'd like to read...