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Jonathan Dalar
06-21-2011, 06:17 PM
This article made me laugh quite a bit. Very interesting to see some of the comments in here, especially in today's light of our ultra-politically correct politeness toward one another.

Enjoy! (http://flavorwire.com/188138/the-30-harshest-author-on-author-insults-in-history)

entropic island
06-21-2011, 06:31 PM
Very interesting. It seems to be a trend for famous male authors to bash on Austen for some reason.

Azure
06-21-2011, 06:44 PM
I've always loved Hemingway's quote about Faulkner - I think because of the truth it contains.

Says something, though, doesn't it? I mean, the fact that pretty much everyone on that list is regarded as brilliant in their own right, yet even they have staunch critics.

Jonathan Dalar
06-21-2011, 06:47 PM
Yea, the Hemingway-Faulkner barbs are some of the most awesome I've seen. And I think Hemingway's spot on there.

quicklime
06-21-2011, 06:51 PM
I'm waiting for it to open, but wondering if any of the slams on Brown are in there; I recall some English writer calling his work "stool-water" and someone else describing one of his books as his "thrilling manual on how not to construct a sentence" or something similar

Lyra Jean
06-21-2011, 07:07 PM
I'm waiting for it to open, but wondering if any of the slams on Brown are in there; I recall some English writer calling his work "stool-water" and someone else describing one of his books as his "thrilling manual on how not to construct a sentence" or something similar

There is one on Browning. I think the only current author on the list was J.K. Rowling.

quicklime
06-21-2011, 07:27 PM
sorry; DAN Brown...

seun
06-21-2011, 07:45 PM
I'm waiting for it to open, but wondering if any of the slams on Brown are in there; I recall some English writer calling his work "stool-water" and someone else describing one of his books as his "thrilling manual on how not to construct a sentence" or something similar

I can't open the link for some reason so I don't know if it's on there, but I always liked Stephen Fry's quote about DVC:

"Arse gravy of the worst kind."

JC Romel
06-21-2011, 07:48 PM
Wow! I had no idea classical authors were such bitches! Me-ow!

Seriously, though, the best comeback was Hemingway's retort of Faulkner's ridiculous criticism. Lord Byron on Keats was bad, but how about Twain starting out all meek and mild with the "I haven't any right to criticize books, etc..." and ending by digging up her corpse and braining her with her own shinbone?

And would somebody get a muzzle for Nabakov already? Sheesh!

Phaeal
06-21-2011, 09:57 PM
Very interesting. It seems to be a trend for famous male authors to bash on Austen for some reason.

Which is that they are terminally envious.

I don't know. I generally feel sorrier for the insulter than the insultee. Bile is so unattractive. Well, except in the professional cats, like Oscar Wilde. ;)

lindseyanne
06-21-2011, 10:18 PM
15. William Faulkner on Ernest Hemingway“He has never been known to use a word that might send a reader to the dictionary.”
14. Ernest Hemingway on William Faulkner
“Poor Faulkner. Does he really think big emotions come from big words?”


That made me laugh. Actually, the entire article made me laugh. Lots of childish insults there.

Libbie
06-21-2011, 10:36 PM
Man...I kinda yearn for the day when this sort of thing happened. It's amusing.


Very interesting. It seems to be a trend for famous male authors to bash on Austen for some reason.

Er -- there were exactly as many digs against Ernest Hemingway and James Joyce on that list as there were against Jane Austen.

Libbie
06-21-2011, 10:43 PM
I have to say, this one made me chuckle a little bit, even though I loved Don Quixote:



17. Martin Amis on Miguel Cervantes
“Reading Don Quixote can be compared to an indefinite visit from your most impossible senior relative, with all his pranks, dirty habits, unstoppable reminiscences, and terrible cronies. When the experience is over, and the old boy checks out at last (on page 846 — the prose wedged tight, with no breaks for dialogue), you will shed tears all right; not tears of relief or regret but tears of pride. You made it, despite all that ‘Don Quixote’ could do.”

Plus, the exchange between Hemingway and Faulkner was awesome, and I am so glad they included some Oscar Wilde. He was the High Lord of Suave Insults. It must have been hard to choose from all he had to offer.

JayMan
06-21-2011, 11:18 PM
Awesome list. I also loved the Hemingway/Faulkner exchange.

My favorite recent author insult was not included on the list, but it's Stephen King on Stephenie Meyer:
"The real difference is that Jo Rowling is a terrific writer and Stephenie Meyer can't write worth a darn. She's not very good."

Phaeal
06-22-2011, 02:03 AM
:roll:

Stephen King is ordinarily so positive, he must have hated Twilight with the burning ardor of a thousand supernovas to have said anything as nasty as "not very good" about the author. Plus he said "darn!"

entropic island
06-22-2011, 02:39 AM
Man...I kinda yearn for the day when this sort of thing happened. It's amusing.



Er -- there were exactly as many digs against Ernest Hemingway and James Joyce on that list as there were against Jane Austen.

Recently another Nobel Prize winning author insulted Austen. Forget his name.

Amadan
06-22-2011, 02:50 AM
Recently another Nobel Prize winning author insulted Austen. Forget his name.

V.S. Naipaul.


:roll:

Stephen King is ordinarily so positive, he must have hated Twilight with the burning ardor of a thousand supernovas to have said anything as nasty as "not very good" about the author. Plus he said "darn!"


Stephen King isn't exactly vitriolic, but when he doesn't like a book, he'll say so. Which I find refreshing, since the prevailing mood in publishing right now seems to be that no author should ever criticize another author's work because someone's fee-fees might get hurt.

scarletpeaches
06-22-2011, 02:53 AM
Stephen King isn't exactly vitriolic, but when he doesn't like a book, he'll say so. Which I find refreshing, since the prevailing mood in publishing right now seems to be that no author should ever criticize another author's work because someone's fee-fees might get hurt.It is such a damn relief to hear someone say that. Okay, read someone type it. You knew what I meant.

God forbid writers should actually, y'know...have an opinion on someone else's work.

scarletpeaches
06-22-2011, 02:54 AM
Which is that they are terminally envious.

I don't know. I generally feel sorrier for the insulter than the insultee. Bile is so unattractive. Well, except in the professional cats, like Oscar Wilde. ;)Oh look. Accusations of envy against those who dare to not like Austen.

Maybe it's just that they thought she was shite? It's allowed, you know.

Since when was not liking an author's work bilious?

Amadan
06-22-2011, 02:58 AM
It is such a damn relief to hear someone say that. Okay, read someone type it. You knew what I meant.

God forbid writers should actually, y'know...have an opinion on someone else's work.

Stop that! You're agreeing with me again!

CaroGirl
06-22-2011, 03:03 AM
People insult each other all the time. Writers just do it with more style.

scarletpeaches
06-22-2011, 03:06 AM
Stop that! You're agreeing with me again!Oh fuck off, you illiterate peon.

CaroGirl
06-22-2011, 03:10 AM
People insult each other all the time. Writers just do it with more style.


Oh fuck off, you illiterate peon.

See?

JayMan
06-22-2011, 03:11 AM
Oh fuck off, you illiterate peon.
I like to go to the Shakespeare insult generator for times like these. It provides such gems as:
"Thou art a most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality."

http://www.pangloss.com/seidel/Shaker/index.html

Sirion
06-22-2011, 03:15 AM
:roll:

Stephen King is ordinarily so positive, he must have hated Twilight with the burning ardor of a thousand supernovas to have said anything as nasty as "not very good" about the author. Plus he said "darn!"

At least he found the inner strength to stop short of physical assault. O_o

scarletpeaches
06-22-2011, 03:16 AM
I like to go to the Shakespeare insult generator for times like these. It provides such gems as:
"Thou art a most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality."

http://www.pangloss.com/seidel/Shaker/index.html*bookmarks*

That'll come in handy.

brainstorm77
06-22-2011, 03:28 AM
Oh look. Accusations of envy against those who dare to not like Austen.

Maybe it's just that they thought she was shite? It's allowed, you know.

Since when was not liking an author's work bilious?

Trust me when I say we all know you have an opinion! :)

scarletpeaches
06-22-2011, 03:36 AM
Austen doesn't put me up nor down but there are plenty of other authors whose work I despise.

*coughCharlotteBrontethismeansyoucough*

brainstorm77
06-22-2011, 03:45 AM
I have a gorgeous set of Austen books that I bought for decorative purposes. I tried to read two of them and couldn't get into either. I may try again some day.

scarletpeaches
06-22-2011, 03:49 AM
I've read Pride and Prejudice, Sense and Sensibility, Emma and Mansfield Park.

Fans of Charlotte Bronte may be interested to know I've ordered Jane Eyre from Amazon and it should arrive tomorrow - along with Wuthering Heights, which I much prefer. (Holla, Emily!) I'm going to read them both again, back-to-back this time, and I promise to try not to hate JE so much this time around. This'll be my third read for WH.

I have all of the above books in ebook format, but prefer print. Why? I just like having Penguin Popular Classics with the plain green covers, matching white spines with smudges where my fingertips rest as I read.

C.bronco
06-22-2011, 03:50 AM
Aw shucks. I'm disappointed I didn't see my ole classmate Dale Peck in there...
http://failuremag.com/index.php/book_review/article/destructive_criticism/

Lyra Jean
06-22-2011, 05:11 AM
I have a gorgeous set of Austen books that I bought for decorative purposes. I tried to read two of them and couldn't get into either. I may try again some day.

You could always rewrite them as erotica like other authors have added zombies and sea monsters.

brainstorm77
06-22-2011, 05:17 AM
You could always rewrite them as erotica like other authors have added zombies and sea monsters.:tongue

thothguard51
06-22-2011, 05:43 AM
Didn't T.H. White and Tolken have a rather public fued over style?

Amadan
06-22-2011, 06:17 AM
You could always rewrite them as erotica like other authors have added zombies and sea monsters.


It's been (http://www.amazon.com/Mr-Darcy-Takes-Wife-Prejudice/dp/1402202733) done (http://mitziszereto.com/prideandprejudicehiddenlusts/).

profen4
06-22-2011, 07:08 AM
Oh my gosh,

Mark Twain on Jane Austen (1898) “I haven’t any right to criticize books, and I don’t do it except when I hate them. I often want to criticize Jane Austen, but her books madden me so that I can’t conceal my frenzy from the reader; and therefore I have to stop every time I begin. Every time I read ‘Pride and Prejudice,’ I want to dig her up and hit her over the skull with her own shin-bone.”


Best quote of the whole article. hahahaha


I blogged about Jane Austen (http://stevewhibley.blogspot.com/2011/06/in-which-jane-austen-feels-my-wrath.html)a while ago and it is funny, I actually like a lot of her work, but I hated Pride and Prejudice too. I can point to why I didn't like that book but it's funny that so many guys seem to feel the same way.

Jonathan Dalar
06-22-2011, 05:26 PM
You could always rewrite them as erotica like other authors have added zombies and sea monsters.

I've heard Pride and Prejudice and Zombies was an edit that significantly improved the novel.

Libbie
06-22-2011, 06:13 PM
V.S. Naipaul.


Yeah, he insults everything with a vagina, so that's not much of a shock there.

Phaeal
06-22-2011, 06:58 PM
Since when was not liking an author's work bilious?

Disliking something is one thing. Public expression of that dislike, with the gloves off, is another, and that's when you'd better be a master of snark and/or logical argument to come off, for me, as more amusing or compelling than sour.

Just saying how I react to less than Wildean attacks, not suggesting anyone suppress her opinions.

muravyets
06-22-2011, 07:22 PM
I like to go to the Shakespeare insult generator for times like these. It provides such gems as:
"Thou art a most notable coward, an infinite and endless liar, an hourly promise breaker, the owner of no one good quality."

http://www.pangloss.com/seidel/Shaker/index.html
Also, bookmarked, thanks. A thread with both entertainment and presents. Yay! :)

My top-ten list of amusements includes watching/listening/reading as people insult each other.

Either the insults are brilliant, and it's like a performance of language mastery, or a tournament of wits, with barbs on (and the scorekeeping is fun, too).*

Or the insults are petty and stupid and pathetic, and the fun comes from watching someone with more ego and temper than sense make a fool of themselves.



*One of my favorites is told of an exchange between classic Hollywood actresses at a dinner party. It's a phonetic vocabulary joke. Back in the day there was some starlet or model or something who went by the single name Margot, pronounced Mar-go, of course. Jean Harlow didn't like her for some reason, so at the party she kept referring to her and addressing her as Mar-got. Finally someone else -- may have been Dorothy Parker or Bette Davis or one of those sharp-witted chicks -- reportedly said loudly to Jean Harlow, "No, no, Jean, it's pronounced Mar-go. The T is silent. Just like the T in Harlow."

thothguard51
06-22-2011, 07:36 PM
Sounds like a Betty Davis come back.

Eddyz Aquila
06-22-2011, 07:41 PM
15. William Faulkner on Ernest Hemingway

“He has never been known to use a word that might send a reader to the dictionary.”

14. Ernest Hemingway on William Faulkner

“Poor Faulkner. Does he really think big emotions come from big words?”

Epic cannot describe how awesome this is.

And that page with the top 5 insults, insane. :D

Chase
06-22-2011, 09:18 PM
Ha ha ha, Writers Waging Word Wars. I'd definitely buy such a book of quotes.

Phaeal
06-22-2011, 09:39 PM
Sounds like a Betty Davis come back.

And let's never forget that Davis played Mar-go Channing, the ultimate Broadway bitch-kitten. :D

Lisa von Lempke
06-23-2011, 01:38 AM
29. Robert Louis Stevenson on Walt Whitman

“…like a large shaggy dog just unchained scouring the beaches of the world and baying at the moon.”


Stevenson must not have had much animosity toward Walt Whitman...That is hardly 'biting'.

Rhoda Nightingale
06-25-2011, 10:29 PM
Austen doesn't put me up nor down but there are plenty of other authors whose work I despise.

*coughCharlotteBrontethismeansyoucough*
hahaha--funny you should mention that, because this thread was making me think of a particularly juicy jab that Bronte made against Austen once.

I meant to write it down, because I can't remember it. It was on a day-by-day calendar I had a few years back. Shame on me.

Nick Blaze
06-26-2011, 12:01 AM
Very interesting topic!

Jamesaritchie
06-26-2011, 12:10 AM
V.S. Naipaul.




Stephen King isn't exactly vitriolic, but when he doesn't like a book, he'll say so. Which I find refreshing, since the prevailing mood in publishing right now seems to be that no author should ever criticize another author's work because someone's fee-fees might get hurt.


I think it's more because those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. King also basically said that Dean Koontz wasn't a very good writer, but of the two, I'd much rather read Koontz.

Saying you dislike a book is fine, but saying another writer can't write is usually pretty silly. It carries no more meaning coming from King than any other writer's comment about King not being able to write means, and there are plenty of writers out there who think King is a hack.

I love King's stories, and most of his characters, but he's not exactly a stylistic genius.

Hemingway and Faulkner, or whichever one started the fuss, should have both shut the hell up and let time, the only judge there is, decide which one was a great writer.

Lisa von Lempke
06-26-2011, 12:46 AM
hahaha--funny you should mention that, because this thread was making me think of a particularly juicy jab that Bronte made against Austen once.

I meant to write it down, because I can't remember it. It was on a day-by-day calendar I had a few years back. Shame on me.

Well THAT was a letdown! Coming here especially to tell us you're not going to tell us something...

Well, you'll just have to look it back up. I will check in, every day.

Linds
06-26-2011, 12:52 AM
The compilation was amusing to read.

The exchange between Faulkner and Hemingway was great.

Auden's comment on Browning was both funny and all 'oh no you didn't!'

AmsterdamAssassin
06-26-2011, 01:32 AM
hahaha--funny you should mention that, because this thread was making me think of a particularly juicy jab that Bronte made against Austen once.

I meant to write it down, because I can't remember it. It was on a day-by-day calendar I had a few years back. Shame on me.

You mean:


“Charlotte Brontë’s dismissive 1850’s comment on Jane Austen, ‘The passions are perfectly unknown to her; she rejects even a speaking acquaintance with that stormy sisterhood’, is facile and unjust: no ‘insensible woman’ (as Charlotte Brontë slightingly called her Regency predecessor) could have portrayed Marianne Dashwood as she ‘almost screamed,’ in the agony of betrayed love. ‘Misery such as mine has no pride.’ The key to Jane Austen’s treatment of ‘the Passions’ can be found in the opening chapter of that great novel, when she says of her heroine, Elinor, ‘Her feelings were strong, but she knew how to control them.”
The reason for this is as follows in a quote from the “Student Companion to Charlotte and Emily Brontë” by Barbara Z. Thaden,
“The style developed by Jane Austen, the other most popular novelist of the Romantic period, is known as the novel of manners. The plots of these novels emphasize the behavior of characters in social settings rather than in their inner conflicts. In Pride and Prejudice (1813), the main character, Elizabeth Bennet, must learn how to negotiate the complex social world of the landed gentry and their acquaintances. Her matrimonial future depends upon interpreting slight nuances of behavior correctly and on not making any mistakes in conduct herself, since characters in the novel of manners almost never meet privately, outside social situations, unless they are engaged or ruined. The high point of a Jane Austen novel can be a glance between two people across a crowded room. Passion and true confessions are not allowable in such a world. One must play by the social rules of the game. Charlotte was not an admirer of Jane Austen, whom she considered too emotionally distant from her characters, too lacking in passion, intensity, and poetry.”

Rhoda Nightingale
06-26-2011, 04:24 PM
^Yeah that! Thanks.

(Again, shame on me.)

AmsterdamAssassin
06-26-2011, 09:27 PM
I just googled 'Bronte commenting on Austen' and there it was.

SirOtter
06-26-2011, 09:45 PM
Dr. Samuel Johnson once said of a play, "It was worth seeing, but not worth going to see." I've always liked that one.

HelloKiddo
06-27-2011, 10:21 AM
Very interesting. It seems to be a trend for famous male authors to bash on Austen for some reason.

I think there are some authors who just do not cross the gender borders. Austen seems to be one of them. It's rare, in my experience, to find a man who really likes Austen. I don't think men "get" her.

I also had trouble reading Austen when I first tried to read her. I absolutely love her now. I think she is just one of those people you have to get.

Charlotte Bronte is another writer who I find men rarely like or understand, although I think it is for different reasons that she has problems crossing over.


*One of my favorites is told of an exchange between classic Hollywood actresses at a dinner party. It's a phonetic vocabulary joke. Back in the day there was some starlet or model or something who went by the single name Margot, pronounced Mar-go, of course. Jean Harlow didn't like her for some reason, so at the party she kept referring to her and addressing her as Mar-got. Finally someone else -- may have been Dorothy Parker or Bette Davis or one of those sharp-witted chicks -- reportedly said loudly to Jean Harlow, "No, no, Jean, it's pronounced Mar-go. The T is silent. Just like the T in Harlow."

Took me a minute but worth it ;)

Amadan
06-27-2011, 10:39 AM
I think there are some authors who just do not cross the gender borders. Austen seems to be one of them. It's rare, in my experience, to find a man who really likes Austen. I don't think men "get" her.


I don't think that's true. I think most men don't like her because they think she's a romance writer. (In fairness, a lot of women seem to think she's a romance writer, too.)

HelloKiddo
06-27-2011, 10:49 AM
The stigma of being a "romance" novelist certainly doesn't help her, but some other women who write love stories do appeal to men. Emily Bronte, for one.

Amadan
06-27-2011, 11:06 AM
The stigma of being a "romance" novelist certainly doesn't help her, but some other women who write love stories do appeal to men. Emily Bronte, for one.

Wuthering Heights, a love story? :Wha:

I don't really think Emily Bronte is more popular with men than Jane Austen.

AmsterdamAssassin
06-27-2011, 11:53 AM
Wuthering Heights, a love story? :Wha:


Of course it's a love story.

Just not your kind of love, but a love story nonetheless.

Jehhillenberg
06-27-2011, 01:37 PM
Haha :D:roll: Glad to know I'm not alone on some of my less than positive thoughts on the works of some of these "great", "classic" authors. The more subtle the comments, the funnier. I really liked Hemingway's retaliation to Faulkner.

What does this really say about us writers and authors? Hm...quite sensitive artists about our works with big heads at times.

smcc360
06-27-2011, 04:37 PM
Wow, Harold Bloom was all over J.K Rowling.

Of course, I hear he was all over Naomi Wolf, too. Zing! :yessmiley

HelloKiddo
06-27-2011, 11:39 PM
I don't really think Emily Bronte is more popular with men than Jane Austen.

It's been my experience that she's much more popular with men than Austen. I'm not sure if that's just my experience or if she in fact is more popular with men.

S.J.
06-28-2011, 12:54 AM
Oh my goooood, Lord Byron on John Keats: "flay him alive"! :eek:

Writers' insults are the most stinging because they have the best command of language, I suppose.