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scarletpeaches
06-10-2011, 04:49 AM
http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae287/scarlettparrish/p8npg.jpg

Guardian
06-10-2011, 04:51 AM
#10 is where I always go wrong. D'oh. Thanks, peaches. How can I make this my wallpaper? And can I tattoo this onto myself?

BeatrixKiddo
06-10-2011, 05:37 AM
Uh oh, SP's on the prowl again.

scarletpeaches
06-10-2011, 05:39 AM
Maybe it was a mistake putting this in Office Party. It wasn't intended to be humorous, but I was trying to reach the widest possible audience.

I found this through an RT on Twitter tonight, and am waiting to see how many 'get it'.

Marian Perera
06-10-2011, 05:45 AM
Brilliant. :D

KellyAssauer
06-10-2011, 05:48 AM
*Whew*
I was waiting and waiting for the 'leave Scotland' tip

-that never came-

;)

Silver King
06-10-2011, 06:01 AM
Maybe it was a mistake putting this in Office Party...
It's fine in this room.

The heading appears to be misleading, but I suppose that's the point.

thothguard51
06-10-2011, 06:04 AM
OK, where is the rule about not dressing sexy or slutty?

scarletpeaches
06-10-2011, 06:04 AM
It's fine in this room.

The heading appears to be misleading, but I suppose that's the point.I don't think it is, Fishyman.

After all, the perfect way to prevent sexual assault is to not do it...

JoNightshade
06-10-2011, 06:06 AM
Seconded: Brilliant

BeatrixKiddo
06-10-2011, 06:08 AM
Maybe it was a mistake putting this in Office Party. It wasn't intended to be humorous, but I was trying to reach the widest possible audience.

I found this through an RT on Twitter tonight, and am waiting to see how many 'get it'.


Sorry about that. I rode the short bus as a kid. I thought you were posting it as something silly. (my bad)

Sheila Muirenn
06-10-2011, 06:13 AM
*Whew*
I was waiting and waiting for the 'leave Scotland' tip

-that never came-

;)

Hmm.
:evil

Silver King
06-10-2011, 06:42 AM
I don't think it is, Fishyman.

After all, the perfect way to prevent sexual assault is to not do it...
I agree, which is why I mentioned the heading appears misleading.

It should read, "Sexual assaultER'S prevention tips." Or something like that, based on the advice given.

seun
06-10-2011, 12:31 PM
Maybe it was a mistake putting this in Office Party. It wasn't intended to be humorous, but I was trying to reach the widest possible audience.

I found this through an RT on Twitter tonight, and am waiting to see how many 'get it'.

What's an RT?

Anyway, good post. Can I add a number 11?

Don't be a piece of shit.

Brindle MacWuff
06-10-2011, 01:13 PM
RT is re-tweet, a message passed on by other tweeters.

Or you could try Twatter, which is a very different kind of social site.

Parametric
06-10-2011, 01:28 PM
I agree, which is why I mentioned the heading appears misleading.

It should read, "Sexual assaultER'S prevention tips." Or something like that, based on the advice given.

You're missing the point. Rape prevention advice of the type being parodied here puts the blame on the victim by telling them not to do this and not to wear that if they don't want to be raped. The implication is that if you don't follow the advice, it's your own fault when you're raped. The parody puts the blame back on the rapist. It only sounds ridiculous because we're culturally indoctrinated to see victims as responsible for their own rapes.

The parody tells us that it's crazy to advise women on how not to be victimised when it's impossible to 100% ensure your personal safety. Rape will only stop when rapists stop raping.

The heading is important.

Broadswordbabe
06-10-2011, 01:43 PM
Love it. About bleedin' time. If it was robbery, we wouldn't even need to try and get people to think differently; no-one gets blamed for being mugged.

seun
06-10-2011, 01:50 PM
RT is re-tweet, a message passed on by other tweeters.


Ah, I see. I'm not down with this new fangled internety thing.

Mr Flibble
06-10-2011, 03:47 PM
Luddite

As the Babe says, about time.

scarletpeaches
06-10-2011, 04:05 PM
You're missing the point. Rape prevention advice of the type being parodied here puts the blame on the victim by telling them not to do this and not to wear that if they don't want to be raped. The implication is that if you don't follow the advice, it's your own fault when you're raped. The parody puts the blame back on the rapist. It only sounds ridiculous because we're culturally indoctrinated to see victims as responsible for their own rapes.

The parody tells us that it's crazy to advise women on how not to be victimised when it's impossible to 100% ensure your personal safety. Rape will only stop when rapists stop raping.

The heading is important.God bless you for this post.

It's pathetic that shit like this still needs to be explained.

Theo81
06-10-2011, 04:30 PM
God bless you for this post.

It's pathetic that shit like this still needs to be explained.

+ 1000.

Lyra Jean
06-10-2011, 05:19 PM
Love it Scarlett. It's also on Facebook.

scarletpeaches
06-10-2011, 05:21 PM
I've received a rep point (I won't say from who) commenting on how disturbing it is that this thread has been received with so much hilarity.

Okay, it's in OP. Yes, it was scarletpeaches who started the thread. But...I have to agree with the anonymous rep-point-sender.

Beckstah
06-10-2011, 05:26 PM
God bless you for this post.

It's pathetic that shit like this still needs to be explained.

Amen to that.

I love how many different places I've seen this list lately. It's a message that everyone needs.

JimmyB27
06-10-2011, 05:36 PM
I've seen this list lately. It's a message that everyone needs.
I'd rather like to think it's not a message *everyone* needs...

cray
06-10-2011, 05:43 PM
I'd rather like to think it's not a message *everyone* needs...



this.


nice post, jimmy.

Bookewyrme
06-10-2011, 05:49 PM
One of the most brilliant things I've seen all week. Reposting immediately as many places as I can...


I'd rather like to think it's not a message *everyone* needs...

Well, everyone needs it in the sense that we are ALL steeped in the patriarchal victim-blaming culture which makes that message necessary in the first place. Even people who actively fight victim-blaming need the message, if not as a reminder than as an inspiration to keep fighting against it.

Adam
06-10-2011, 05:53 PM
Spotted this on Facebook the other day. Brilliantly done.

Silent Rob
06-10-2011, 05:56 PM
I agree with Jimmy and cray and I think there are a great many of us right-thinking types out there. But what bothers me is that I don't think it's official enough. There needs to be absolute clarity in law and a complete commitment from those that enforce it that sexual assault of any kind (as with all other types of assault) is wrong. Like somebody else said, there's no ambiguity around theft and other crimes.

scarletpeaches
06-10-2011, 05:56 PM
Yes, everyone needs this message. For the reasons Bookewyrme gave.

Beckstah
06-10-2011, 06:13 PM
One of the most brilliant things I've seen all week. Reposting immediately as many places as I can...



Well, everyone needs it in the sense that we are ALL steeped in the patriarchal victim-blaming culture which makes that message necessary in the first place. Even people who actively fight victim-blaming need the message, if not as a reminder than as an inspiration to keep fighting against it.

This! Thank you for putting it much more eloquently than I could. :D

scarletpeaches
06-10-2011, 07:08 PM
So I've just received another rep point saying it's narrow-minded not to see the humour in this thread.

Forgive me for not thinking rape culture and victim-blaming are funny. :rolleyes:

Wicked
06-10-2011, 08:07 PM
I snickered about halfway through the list, because of the irony. It was a "hell yeah, this is the way it should be" kind of amused, not a "tee hee, isn't that a funny way to think" kind.

The 'humor' found in the post has a lot more to do with context than content.

Maybe I'm just this jaded, but I took the few women that saw it as light-hearted funny to be a hopeful sign. Maybe the world isn't completely full of monsters, because there are a few women *people (monsters aren't restricted to one gender) out there that haven't run into them yet.

And I think the title Peaches chose is exactly as it should be.

Guardian
06-10-2011, 09:07 PM
You're missing the point. Rape prevention advice of the type being parodied here puts the blame on the victim by telling them not to do this and not to wear that if they don't want to be raped. The implication is that if you don't follow the advice, it's your own fault when you're raped. The parody puts the blame back on the rapist. It only sounds ridiculous because we're culturally indoctrinated to see victims as responsible for their own rapes.

The parody tells us that it's crazy to advise women on how not to be victimised when it's impossible to 100% ensure your personal safety. Rape will only stop when rapists stop raping.

The heading is important.

All of this. And sorry if my joke was offensive to anyone. I think I was a little mistaken about the nature by this being in office party.

scarletpeaches
06-10-2011, 09:12 PM
Acksherly, I don't think it was any one post that ticked off the person who repped me. I think it was a collective thing. No doubt tipped off by the fact it was me, a known joker, who started the thread. :)

Guardian
06-10-2011, 09:21 PM
I just found it funny because it should be so obvious that the blame should be placed on the attacker, not the victim. The idea of someone using a buddy system to keep themselves from attacking someone else is pretty awesome and I wish that could-be attackers were actually honest enough to do that. The whole victim-blaming is just too stupid to believe... but then it pretty much happens every day and that sucks. This list needs to be how we handle things instead.

Kaiser-Kun
06-10-2011, 09:26 PM
Oh no, not again! I'm wearing my SP-ecial suit today.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20061127195643/inciclopedia/images/0/0d/Medieval-bike-armor.jpg

Wicked
06-10-2011, 09:37 PM
Knight on a shiny steed. :D


Oh no, not again! I'm wearing my SP-ecial suit today.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20061127195643/inciclopedia/images/0/0d/Medieval-bike-armor.jpg

Goldenleaves
06-10-2011, 09:50 PM
Isn't laughter a recognised response to pain, a way of dealing with it?

I find it great. Want the t-shirt. Trouble is, I'm not sure many of the people who need this advice are that good at reading.

writeronfire
06-10-2011, 10:30 PM
OK, where is the rule about not dressing sexy or slutty?

Uh oh.

Anninyn
06-11-2011, 01:32 AM
Sometimes you'll have to laugh at things or you'll cry.
After all, a lot of humour exists to point out uncomfortable truths in a palatable way. That's what I find amusing in this lsit. It kind of takes the sting out of a fundamentally sick attitude to sexuality that exists across much of the world.

JimmyB27
06-11-2011, 03:29 AM
It kind of takes the sting out of a fundamentally sick attitude to sexuality that exists across much of the world.
I agree with this.

However, I take back my comment about not everyone needing to see it.
Everyone needs to see it for the same reason that a company like, say, Budweiser needs to keep advertising. Most people know what Budweiser is and whether or not they like it. The product rarely changes, so it's not about advertising the latest release.
So why do they advertise? Because if they don't, their opponents will, and people won't be thinking about their product anymore.
There has been too much 'advertising' of the victim-blame nonsense. We do need more shit like this to hammer home where the fault really lies.
My comment was a knee-jerk reaction along the lines of "I'm a good guy, I don't need to be told not to rape women!" and that's true. But, repeat a thing enough times, and someone's going to start believing it.

Silver King
06-11-2011, 04:02 AM
You're missing the point...
I must be, because I truly don't get it. The advice, as listed, doesn't pertain as much to the victims of sexual assault as it does to those who commit such crimes.

So the heading, to me anyway, appears misleading, as if it's intended to offer tips to potential victims on how best to avoid being assaulted.

But I get what the message is all about; it's just that the title, or rather my interpretation of it, weakens the impact early on.

Silver King
06-11-2011, 04:12 AM
...Please, whoever is repping the Peach and telling her that there is humour in rape...fuck off.
That won't sit well with whoever sent the rep.

It doesn't sit well with me either, so let's avoid cursing each other, even blindly, in this room, please.

scarletpeaches
06-11-2011, 04:13 AM
Let's also avoid treating rape like a joke.

Amadan
06-11-2011, 04:16 AM
My comment was a knee-jerk reaction along the lines of "I'm a good guy, I don't need to be told not to rape women!" and that's true. But, repeat a thing enough times, and someone's going to start believing it.

Your knee-jerk reaction is another reason why things like this are necessary. Any time there is a rape thread, you get a ton of guys immediately hollering "But I'm a nice guy and I have never raped anyone and rape is the worst thing ever!" and they immediately want their Nice Guy Cookies for not being a rapist.

lachel
06-11-2011, 04:21 AM
I must be, because I truly don't get it. The advice, as listed, doesn't pertain as much to the victims of sexual assault as it does to those who commit such crimes.

So the heading, to me anyway, appears misleading, as if it's intended to offer tips to potential victims on how best to avoid being assaulted.

But I get what the message is all about; it's just that the title, or rather my interpretation of it, weakens the impact early on.

The impact comes from reading the title, and assuming another victim blaming list of tips about how if you always walk with a buddy at night you won't be assaulted, and then you read the list and realize that the usual list is turned on its head.

Why, exactly, do you think that the burden of preventing sexual assault is on the victim? That's what you're saying, when you say that a list about preventing sexual assault MUST be about what the victim can do to prevent it, or else it doesn't make sense.

Silver King
06-11-2011, 04:35 AM
Let's also avoid treating rape like a joke.
If you mean in this thread, we can't control how people respond to the subject. As with any discussion, however serious, members are free to express their thoughts in whatever manner they deem most effective to get their point across.

As most of us know, there's humor in everything, even death; and if the subject matter is handled with a deft hand, the profound elements always exceed the comedic slant to help us absorb the truth of almost any situation.

brainstorm77
06-11-2011, 04:38 AM
Let's also avoid treating rape like a joke.

Yup. I agree. Many members here have been through it or know someone who has, and it isn't funny period!

scarletpeaches
06-11-2011, 04:40 AM
If you mean in this thread, we can't control how people respond to the subject. As with any discussion, however serious, members are free to express their thoughts in whatever manner they deem most effective to get their point across.

As most of us know, there's humor in everything, even death; and if the subject matter is handled with a deft hand, the profound elements always exceed the comedic slant to help us absorb the truth of almost any situation.No, we can't, but what follows the bolded part isn't entirely true. People have been banned from this site for expressing their thoughts in a way they deemed effective, but which the mods did not.

An extreme example, maybe; my point being, members aren't entirely free to say anything they wish, in whatever manner they wish, then plead "Humour!"

ETA: A more moderate, real-life example. On page one of this thread, one post jokes, "Uh oh, SP's on the prowl again." Um...excuse me? Or something like "Where's leave Scotland on the list?" Am I the only one who thinks, given the topic, those remarks are slightly distasteful?

For the record I didn't report any posts in this thread and don't plan to. I've read all posts, agree with some, disagree with others, but I can well see how some folk would think off-colour humour has gone too far in this discussion.

Silver King
06-11-2011, 04:47 AM
...Why, exactly, do you think that the burden of preventing sexual assault is on the victim? That's what you're saying, when you say that a list about preventing sexual assault MUST be about what the victim can do to prevent it, or else it doesn't make sense.
If I knew you better, I'd think you were pulling my leg.

For you to glean what you have from my posts, then to make those assertions, tells me that I haven't expressed myself effectively; or that you've misread what I've said as one of the most astonishing misinterpretations of intent I've ever seen on this site.

It's probably a little of both. Or a lot.

scarletpeaches
06-11-2011, 04:52 AM
Oh, plus - the matter of the thread title? It's sexual assault prevention, not sexual assault avoidance.

Silver King
06-11-2011, 05:12 AM
No, we can't, but what follows the bolded part isn't entirely true. People have been banned from this site for expressing their thoughts in a way they deemed effective, but which the mods did not.

An extreme example, maybe; my point being, members aren't entirely free to say anything they wish, in whatever manner they wish, then plead "Humour!"
Please refer to what I said, in the same post you've quoted, regarding "a deft hand." Anyone who's ever been banned from here for their sense of humor simply didn't have one to begin with, or else used it in a hurtful manner.


ETA: A more moderate, real-life example. On page one of this thread, one post jokes, "Uh oh, SP's on the prowl again." Um...excuse me? Or something like "Where's leave Scotland on the list?" Am I the only one who thinks, given the topic, those remarks are slightly distasteful?I read those as merely playful, to you personally, and not meant to disparage the subject. The persona you've cultivated here, as one who isn't entirely serious much of the time, could have something to do with the early reactions to your thread.

For the record I didn't report any posts in this thread and don't plan to. I've read all posts, agree with some, disagree with others, but I can well see how some folk would think off-colour humour has gone too far in this discussion.Maybe my threshold for off-color humor is set pretty high, but I don't see any reason to be concerned at this point.

scarletpeaches
06-11-2011, 05:13 AM
This is why I regret posting in OP.

Silver King
06-11-2011, 05:16 AM
Oh, plus - the matter of the thread title? It's sexual assault prevention, not sexual assault avoidance.
That doesn't even make any sense, as both terms are nearly interchangeable.

Guardian
06-11-2011, 05:16 AM
Office Party was a strange choice. I thought we were going to celebrate the clever list, not end up in very serious mode.

scarletpeaches
06-11-2011, 05:21 AM
That doesn't even make any sense, as both terms are nearly interchangeable.No, they're not. They're really not.

Jesus. This whole thread just makes me sad now. I'll leave you guys to it. I've got nothing more to say.

Guardian
06-11-2011, 05:21 AM
Clearly, you were never raped. You are lucky. Now try to be compassionate to victims of rape.


I'll just... leave. For a long while. :gone:

veinglory
06-11-2011, 05:29 AM
Preventing is done to the perpetrator (A is prevented from assaulting B), avoidance is done by the potential victim (B avoids being assaulted by A)--in this application that is a pretty wide semantic gulf.

Silver King
06-11-2011, 05:39 AM
Clearly, you were never raped. You are lucky. Now try to be compassionate to victims of rape.
But how do you know she hasn't been raped? And how can you assume such a thing, based solely upon her posts in this thread?

(I don't mind if we argue here, heatedly and with passion and our hearts on the line; but let's remember to respect one another during the process. That's the Golden Rule, and really the only one we need to follow, especially when our blood pressure rises.)

Bookewyrme
06-11-2011, 06:09 AM
I was not disrespecting. If someone is raped they are unable to find humour in the subject of rape.

That's where you're wrong, KTC. Everyone heals in their own way, and sometimes the only way to heal is to laugh. Laughing at victims may no longer be an option, but there are other ways to laugh at the institution of rape. For instance, I found the list SP posted in the OP hilarious, because it is ironic, particularly in it's relation to the dominant narrative surrounding rape and victim-blaming. Just because I laughed at it doesn't mean I didn't also find it incredibly deeply meaningful and seek to spread it as far as my feeble networks could in the hope of counteracting some of the other narratives already abroad.

Also, for all you know you've just effectively told a survivor (Guardian, though I have no idea if she is or not) that her experience, whatever it may have been, doesn't "really" count. Congrats for feeding into the dominant culture surrounding rape, that not all rapes and assaults are equally horrendous, and some victims are more deserving of consideration than others.

Wicked
06-11-2011, 06:11 AM
Clearly, you were never raped. You are lucky. Now try to be compassionate to victims of rape.

WTH?

I hit the report button, typed and deleted twice, before changing my mind and letting it go.

You can't even begin to make that kind of assumption.
Just . . . no.

Whoa. Ok, I'm leaving before I put my fist through the monitor.

Later.

mccardey
06-11-2011, 06:33 AM
Everybody's fighting about whether or not people reacted to the OP the way they should have. Since no-one here is defending rape or rape-based jokes, it seems to me it might be a better idea to target our anger instead at rapists, rape-culture and rape apologists.

Scarlett - thanks for posting that. I don't have facebook or twitter and I wouldn't have seen it. It's terrifically effective. How do I find a link so that I can email it out to my facebookless, twitterless friends?

Goldenleaves
06-11-2011, 12:38 PM
Jeez, calm down peeps. The reason there's humour in the post is that it so clearly exposes the utter stupidity of people who assault others. Especially 10.

Rape also should stop being looked at as sex. In the same way as a punch in the teeth isn't looked at as petting or physical affection.

But since we're not actually assaulting each other at the moment, surely this thread is a good opportunity for us to calmly explore each other's mindsets?

I've been a victim. I'm not one now. It's not a matter of choice and it could happen to anyone as long as there's idiots around.

Goldenleaves
06-11-2011, 12:44 PM
I've shown it to loads of people. Someone told me that 10 is very like the drug use one 'Just say no'. I guess that's true. How weird.

Caitlin Black
06-11-2011, 01:29 PM
I just saw on the News that the "Slutwalk" was in my home city today. Basically, as the News explained it, the Slutwalk was about this very subject - putting the blame on rapists, not victims, as well as taking back the word "Slut".

If I'd known it was going to be on, I would've attended. Alas, I'm not in the loop on such things, so I always miss out. Same reason I always miss my local LGBT-Pride Parade. I walked in one years ago, when some friends told me about it and that they were going. But I always seem to miss out by simply not being in the loop.

Anyway, just wanted to throw my support behind rape being not okay in the slightest, and that the rapists are to blame, not the victims. It seems stupid to even think some people could blame the victims, but then I thought about it.

There was also a News story about someone on a train who had fallen asleep, and was robbed upon waking. My immediate thought was, "Why would you let yourself fall asleep on a train?" I felt like such a wanker after thinking that.

The blame fully lies with the person who robbed her. You should be able to take a nap on the train if you're tired.

This world needs to shape up.

seun
06-11-2011, 03:05 PM
Looks like there's been some misunderstanding from various corners on this one. How about we take a breath and put the focus back on the important issue?

The blame for rape always lies with the rapist, not the victim.

KTC
06-11-2011, 03:31 PM
I apologize for yesterday. I'm just furious when it comes to this subject. Victims blame themselves as much as everybody else seem to do. I blamed myself for decades. I'm just getting to the point where I am releasing the blame and finally allowing it to fall on the real responsible party. My tolerance level for this subject is at an all time low. I should have just avoided participation in this thread. I apologized privately to Guardian and we are having talk in PMs. Sorry, all.

Leah J. Utas
06-11-2011, 04:29 PM
Thanks for posting this. Saw it on Face Book. The wider the distribution, the better.

JimmyB27
06-11-2011, 05:51 PM
That doesn't even make any sense, as both terms are nearly interchangeable.
Nearly, but not quite.

Avoidance is always done by the victim. Prevention can be done by the victim or the rapist. The victim-blaming culture puts prevention down to simply avoidance. The whole point of this is to swing that back the way it should be and put the responsibility for prevention back in the hands of the (potential) rapist.
To be honest, I'm rather surprised such word play needs explaining on a writers site.

lachel
06-11-2011, 09:41 PM
Nearly, but not quite.

Avoidance is always done by the victim. Prevention can be done by the victim or the rapist. The victim-blaming culture puts prevention down to simply avoidance. The whole point of this is to swing that back the way it should be and put the responsibility for prevention back in the hands of the (potential) rapist.
To be honest, I'm rather surprised such word play needs explaining on a writers site.

Exactly. The point is that we're so used to seeing "sexual abuse prevention" as being only the responsibility of the victim, so this list is jarring. But really the victim has little say in preventing sexual assault, and to say otherwise is blaming the victim. A better way to prevent sexual abuse is not to do it.

backslashbaby
06-11-2011, 10:44 PM
I like the list as is very much.

I also wish we would stop referring to rape in any form as sex. If Morning Joe doesn't stop calling sexual assault cases 'sex stories,' I don't know what I'm going to do. And Anderson Cooper, even! I love me some Anderson, but sure enough, even he called a sexual assault case a 'sex case'.

It's not sex, and 'alleged' victims are victims same as any other violent crime. Allegedly.

KTC
06-12-2011, 09:35 PM
Exactly. The point is that we're so used to seeing "sexual abuse prevention" as being only the responsibility of the victim, so this list is jarring. But really the victim has little say in preventing sexual assault, and to say otherwise is blaming the victim. A better way to prevent sexual abuse is not to do it.

quoted for truth. Now if we can just get the predators and pedophiles to understand this concept.

Goldenleaves
06-12-2011, 11:21 PM
Not many men are so weak and feeble they rocket out of control because someone else acts, talks or dresses a certain way. Or because of their own fantasies. Or because of any number of sad excuses.

Real men and women who are violently inclined will be honest about it and socialise in the s&m scene where they can satisfy their preferences with a consenting adult.

Two year olds may have violent tantrums when faced with 'temptation'. Most men and women have grown out of that.