Ideas: from modern to... western

Jonah Hex

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I can't really to write others genre of tales but the western. However I often take ideas from modern facts on newspapers, online news site, etc., facts that have elements like metropolis, cars, automatic guns and generally others "abstract" things purely modern.

How can I "translate" these ideas in a good western ones? Or, even better, where can I find ideas purely western?

How you doing it?

PS. Excuse me for my bad english :cry:
 

Puma

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Hi Jonah - No apologies needed for your English. The only way to become better is to use it and this is a good place for you to work on learning the lingo (idiom meaning learn the language or how natives speak).

From your post I understand you to say you can't write stories other than westerns, but you don't always know how to translate modern ideas to western ones, and you don't have a good background for writing westerns. Does that pretty well cover it?

Can you tell us a little more about your background - how many western books you've read and an idea of what, how many western movies and maybe favorite actors, same for western TV shows. I think if we have a better idea about you (maybe even some information on where and how you're learning English, etc.), we'll be better able to respond to your question. Puma
 

Jonah Hex

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Hi Puma. Thanks for your reply :)

Actually I have written several western tales because I love the West (history) and the western (movies and narrative). Also I write articles for the biggest italian site about the West, I have several books about the West and I have seen, and I see, several western movies.

My trouble is not a bad background but the source of inspiration. Simply, I don't know where find good ideas. I go well with characters, I'm improving about plot but my lack is just about basis ideas.

I have not problems to answer you: I'm from Italy that is a country really allergic to the western novels so we have not many published books. However I can to read very well nonfiction english books but for narrative I have read only the translations: McCarthy's "Blood meridian", McMurtry's "Lonesome Dove", several Louis L'Amour's westerns, "Dance with wolves" and many others that I can't put here because would be a long list, both nonfiction and fiction. I have a web site where I put every book I have, but I don't know if I can write the url here (would be spam).

The same above is about the movies, maybe I've seen every western movie dubbed in italian :)

My english is a figment of my passion for this language: not from school, little from university but many from my reads of english books and my curiosity for every grammar question. In short, I'm a self-taught person.

For me is very important find comparison about my english from who speak it, so you will understand because I ask often to you about MY english.

I hope you like my reply, but I'm always available for any discussion.

So long,
Jonah Hex
 

Puma

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Thank you for your reply, Jonah. You're doing very well with English - identifiable as a non-native writer, but well along the path to having good skills.

As you know, the more you read English, the more proficient you'll become. For that reason, I'm going to suggest that you take a look / spend some time in the western share your work forum where writers here can post parts of the stories they are working on. (You won't be able to post any of your writing until you have accumulated fifty posts on AW - and these in this forum count.) And, if you do read some of the posts in SYW (share your work abbreviated), feel free to leave comments about how you liked the story, whether there were things you didn't understand (including about English phrasing), etc. Most of the posters are very agreeable to helping newcomers. SYW is located a bit farther down the main AW page and is password protected - (password is there for everyone to see.)

And, while you're in SYW, in the historical forum just above western, there is a stickied thread at the top of the forum with monthly challenge topics - you might look at that list and see whether any of those topics give you an idea. A couple years ago one of the topics there was a fight scene. I wrote my scene set in Montana in 1885. People who commented on my post liked my character, and over the course of the next year that challenge topic developed into a full blown novel which does qualify as a western.

Ideas: there are websites that list all the different options for plot - and any story has to have a plot. So that might be an idea of where to start - i.e., are you more interested in a quest type of story, a struggle with adversity, a simple love story?

Next question is whether there are locations in the west or portions of history about the west that interest you more - the red rock canyons or snow-capped mountains or crashing rivers or desolate plains; the cattle drives, mining, development of the railroads, homesteading and ranching, gunfighters?

You say you're good with characters - what types of characters do you create - tough guys, inquisitive guys, romantic guys ...?

What do you want to know more about? OR, what do you know about you'd like to share with others?

If you start answering some of these questions, hopefully you'll start to come up with some ideas. Puma
 

Jonah Hex

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Well, Puma, I can't post my tales here, because I write in italian and a translation would make bad the tales :(

About the writing: I'll try what you suggest. Some questions are useful to set something about the plot ;)

I forgot... can you post some of that websites you have told? :)

Thanks!
 
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Puma

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"I forgot... can you post some of that websites you have told?"

Do you mean Share Your Work? It's here on Absolutewrite - farther down the main page than this western genre forum, but very easy to find. Puma
 

Jonah Hex

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"I forgot... can you post some of that websites you have told?"

Do you mean Share Your Work? It's here on Absolutewrite - farther down the main page than this western genre forum, but very easy to find. Puma
I'll write your works, thanks :)

I'd like to know the website "that list all the different options for plot" :)
 

Puma

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Hi Jonah - I found the websites by Googling. I've pasted some of what I found below (and I don't remember where I found it - but through Google).

PLOTS
#1 QUEST - the plot involves the Protagonist's search for a person, place or thing, tangible or intangible (but must be quantifiable, so think of this as a noun; i.e., immortality).

#2 ADVENTURE - this plot involves the Protagonist going in search of their fortune, and since fortune is never found at home, the Protagonist goes to search for it somewhere over the rainbow.

#3 PURSUIT - this plot literally involves hide-and-seek, one person chasing another.

#4 RESCUE - this plot involves the Protagonist searching for someone or something, usually consisting of three main characters - the Protagonist, the Victim & the Antagonist.

#5 ESCAPE - plot involves a Protagonist confined against their will who wants to escape (does not include some one trying to escape their personal demons).

#6 REVENGE - retaliation by Protagonist or Antagonist against the other for real or imagined injury.

#7 THE RIDDLE - plot involves the Protagonist's search for clues to find the hidden meaning of something in question that is deliberately enigmatic or ambiguous.

#8 RIVALRY - plot involves Protagonist competing for same object or goal as another person (their rival).

#9 UNDERDOG - plot involves a Protagonist competing for an object or goal that is at a great disadvantage and is faced with overwhelming odds.

#10 TEMPTATION - plot involves a Protagonist that for one reason or another is induced or persuaded to do something that is unwise, wrong or immoral.

#11 METAMORPHOSIS - this plot involves the physical characteristics of the Protagonist actually changing from one form to another (reflecting their inner psychological identity).

#12 TRANSFORMATION - plot involves the process of change in the Protagonist as they journey through a stage of life that moves them from one significant character state to another.

#13 MATURATION - plot involves the Protagonist facing a problem that is part of growing up, and from dealing with it, emerging into a state of adulthood (going from innocence to experience).

#14 LOVE - plot involves the Protagonist overcoming the obstacles to love that keeps them from consummating (engaging in) true love.

#15 FORBIDDEN LOVE - plot involves Protagonist(s) overcoming obstacles created by social mores and taboos to consummate their relationship (and sometimes finding it at too high a price to live with).

#16 SACRIFICE - plot involves the Protagonist taking action(s) that is motivated by a higher purpose (concept) such as love, honor, charity or for the sake of humanity.

#17 DISCOVERY - plot that is the most character-centered of all, involves the Protagonist having to overcome an upheavel(s) in their life, and thereby discovering something important (and buried) within them a better understanding of life (i.e., better appreciation of their life, a clearer purpose in their life, etc.)

#18 WRETCHED EXCESS - plot involves a Protagonist who, either by choice or by accident, pushes the limits of acceptable behavior to the extreme and is forced to deal with the consequences (generally deals with the psychological decline of the character).

#19 ASCENSION - rags-to-riches plot deals with the rise (success) of Protagonist due to a dominating character trait that helps them to succeed.

#20 DECISION - riches-to-rags plot deals with the fall (destruction) of Protagonist due to dominating character trait that eventually destroys their success.

(Note: Sometimes #19 & #20 are combined into rags-to-riches-to-rags (or vice versa) of a Protagonist who does (or doesn't) learn to deal with their dominating character trait.)

And there's lots more information available out there if you do some searching. Puma
 

jdm

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Glad to have you aboard.

Most of the themes present in westerns (and all literature) have been common to human experience all through history. Westerns are only one of the genres that explore things such as: love, rivalry, good vs. evil, conflict between the the choices we have to make, pursuit of power and money, etc.. You can adapt many modern scenarios to an Old West setting simply by thinking about the period and seeing what you can substitute in place of the modern version, such as occupations, modes of travel, or types of entertainment. You may have to think a bit about what might be analogous between today and the 1800s, but in most cases it can be done. I have done it numerous times in the western I have written, incorporating modern events and conversations into it while changing the dialog and narration to be consistent with the speech and social customs and morals of that period.

If you are interested in Americanizing your dialog for that time period, you can get on line and look up some of the slang and phrases that were commonly used back then. A good website is http://www.legendsofamerica.com/we-slang.html
They also have many facts about the American West, along with stories about lawmen, outlaws, and events of the time.

I appreciate what your country has contributed to the cinema in the way of westerns. It gave things a whole new perspective on the idea of the western hero.

Good luck.
 

Jonah Hex

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Thank you, Puma. The list is very useful, I'll search something else with Google ;)

Thank you, jdm. I like to setting my tales: the West has an infinity choice of scenarios, I like discover all (my prefer is the territory between USA and Mexico, the border: dusty towns, hot sun, deserts, arroyos...).

IMO, in a western the place has to have a primary importance, also as source for plot ideas.

However sometimes is hard turn some elements into western counterpart (supposing that them exist :))
 

Puma

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Hi Jonah - So you like the American Southwest (hot sun, arroyos, deserts). :) So do I.

I'm pasting a website link below. It's for Legends of America and has many pages of stories about the American West. You may be able to find some good story ideas there. Puma

http://www.legendsofamerica.com/index.html
 

Jonah Hex

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Oh yes Puma, great site, I know it. A section very curious of this site is the one about Old West recipes.

I tell you, many ideas can come from two big books encyclopedia: of Western lawmen and outlaws and of western gunfighters :)
 

Puma

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Are you familiar with the Time-Life series of books on the American west from back in about the 1960's? There are about two dozen books in the series - one on gunfighters, one on the lawmen, one on the mountain men, etc. Sometimes you can find parts or all of the series on e-bay. They're worth having. Puma
 

Jonah Hex

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Yes, I know the Time Life Series about the West but I not have it :(

Puma, look on your private messages, I'll send you the link to my books collection :)
 

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Jonah, if you really want to get a GREAT idea about Westerns, look up the old 1950's TV show Have Gun Will Travel (it's referenced in my avatar.) The main character, Paladin, is quite possibly one of the greatest characters to come out of that genre. He's a gunfighter that knows about Shakespeare and is very intelligent, and tries to use his head before his gun.
 

Puma

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Hi Jonah - That's quite a collection. I think I'd call you a western fanatic.

But, as you may know, one of the tricks of book writing these days is finding a topic that hasn't already been covered. For example, you have several books about western lawmen - on the opposite side, I'm not sure there have been many (or any) books done on vigilante groups (like Stewart's stranglers in Montana).

I suspect that's the type of piece of information you need help finding (and if you Google Stewart's stranglers, you will find some information.) Puma
 

Jonah Hex

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Hi Arcturus! I don't know about that character... I want try to make characters as really they were. I don't think there have been men with a knowledge of Shakespeare in the Old West :)

Puma, Vigilantes are a good ideas. At moment I'm reading Boessenecker's book "Gold dust & gunsmoke" where the vigilantes are everywhere and also the Dimsdale book has been a excellent reading :)

Another dream of my West are both Mounties and Rurales: two fascinating elements on which a day I'd like write ;)

I'm very happy to read you liked my book collection! :)
 

Arcturus

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Hi Arcturus! I don't know about that character... I want try to make characters as really they were. I don't think there have been men with a knowledge of Shakespeare in the Old West :)

Puma, Vigilantes are a good ideas. At moment I'm reading Boessenecker's book "Gold dust & gunsmoke" where the vigilantes are everywhere and also the Dimsdale book has been a excellent reading :)

Another dream of my West are both Mounties and Rurales: two fascinating elements on which a day I'd like write ;)

I'm very happy to read you liked my book collection! :)

Check Paladin out- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiHyRdaHzpI
 

jdm

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Often acting troupes would bring productions such as Shakespearean plays to the small playhouses that sporadically dotted the Old West. Many classically educated individuals migrated from the East to seek their fortunes in the Old West as well. It would not be unreasonable to invent a character raised in the east who came west and had to adapt to using a gun to defend himself.

Not everyone who came to the west or was raised in it was uneducated, either. Legendary lawman Bat Masterson, once he finished his law career, went back east and became a sports writer for a newspaper. The editors of town newspapers in the Old West certainly had to be fairly well educated and aware of Shakespeare.
 

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Jonah, okay, here's a couple things to think about.

A car is a horse.
A metropolis is a town.
An automatic weapon is a Gatling gun or a Spencer carbine.

There is almost no modern situation which cannot be translated into a decent western story or even science fiction or fantasy (Lucas did it for Star Wars and Indiana Jones). just wrap your head around the idea that everything we have today has an analog in the past and the Old West tradition.
 

NinaK

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Hi Jonah

I agree that you can translate modern inspiration into a different time period. Maybe doing a little historical research would help get you into the mindset and even provide some more ideas. There are all sorts of chronicles, old books and newspapers available online.

You might want to check the link below. It has many areas of interest such as frontier law, homesteading, cattle towns, timelines, etc. Maybe poking around will give you some new ideas, good luck

THE AMERICAN WEST VIRTUAL LIBRARY: HISTORY
http://www.vlib.us/americanwest/
 

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Jonah, okay, here's a couple things to think about.

A car is a horse.
A metropolis is a town.
An automatic weapon is a Gatling gun or a Spencer carbine.

There is almost no modern situation which cannot be translated into a decent western story or even science fiction or fantasy (Lucas did it for Star Wars and Indiana Jones). just wrap your head around the idea that everything we have today has an analog in the past and the Old West tradition.

I totally agree... living in Texas I've begun to realize that modern times aren't THAT much different than the old west. For example I work in a small town that grew up around the railroad at a retailer that sells guns and sporting goods, kind of like a general store. We still say "Howdy" and wear cowboy hats.
 

Jonah Hex

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I totally agree... living in Texas I've begun to realize that modern times aren't THAT much different than the old west. For example I work in a small town that grew up around the railroad at a retailer that sells guns and sporting goods, kind of like a general store. We still say "Howdy" and wear cowboy hats.
Oh my God, this is fantastic!!!!! :heart:
 

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Jonah, we ain't all Wall Street pansies sit tin' in cubicles an' polish in' our nails.

And everybody who lives in the Midwest ain't necessarily a redneck uneducated beer-swilling hillbilly neither. Why, some of us even has education from high-falutin' schools like Berkeley and Princeton and we even had an Oxford-educated President awhile back and he was from Arkansas.

Even in California there're still places where they have cowboys and rodeos and people wear cowboy hats and boots and horses aren't just for pulling a carriage or looking pretty in some show.

One of my great joys is to drive across this country looking for little out-of-the-way towns and places where the only pretense to modern civilization is electricity and modern conveniences and the desire to better one's life and those of their kids.

Dodge City, Kansas is one of those places where the Old West and modern life have co-mingled, but the people have maintained their sense of a great western heritage. Abilene, Santa Fe, Tombstone, and a thousand other little cow towns scattered across the prairie are still there, still thriving, and still maintaining the old traditions of the Old West even into the 21st Century in many ways.

The United States is heavily, HEAVILY influenced by the Old West and the legends thereof in ways that most people don't even realize today - and many of those old traditions and mannerisms remain alive today.

No offense is intended (to anyone), but when somebody says something is "cowboy" or says "cowboy" this or that, I smile and feel proud. The tradition of the Old West, in many ways merely legend, is something to be proud of.

Just imagine it - millions of immigrants, newly-arrived from faraway lands, moving west, learning the language of this new country, learning to live through the hardships thrown their way, struggling to succeed against sometimes impossible odds - and doing it, thriving, and becoming prosperous and building a powerhouse of a country in only a few hundred years.

Imagine those lost, lonely, desperately poor immigrants, barely knowing a word of English, struggling along the Oregon Trail, the Chisum Trail, opening up the Oklahoma Territory, establishing businesses and homes and families along the way, facing down hostile Indians, raiders, war, famine, the forces of nature - and succeeding.

Succeeding despite everything thrown their way. Standing in the face of dust storms, bullets, tornadoes, locusts (read about the locust swarm that swept through the Midwest in the late 1800s - the estimate is that there at least 1 trillion locusts in the swarm and it devastated more than 300 thousand acres of cultivated land), bandits, and everything else that plagues our civilization today - and succeeding.

It's exciting, it's heartbreaking, and it's inspiring. It's something that anyone should be proud of to have as part of their heritage.

Were there tragedies? Oh, yes. Were there horrific things that happened? Yes. Were there things that happened that shame us all? You betcha'. But our ancestors learned and we learned and our children will learn and we will be better for all of those things.

Yeah, I'm damned proud of our traditions and this country and what those immigrants did way back when. They carved a nation from the bedrock of a wild and (basically, by today's standards) uncivilized land and they did it with their bare hands, the sweat of their brows, their blood, tears, and often as not the clothes on their backs.

:)

I sincerely do not and have not intended to offend anyone with the above rant. If I did, sorry.