Wuxia: The Chinese Western

Never heard of it. Unless they are wearing cowboy clothes, it wouldn't interest me. I did see one Chinese western with horses and cowboy type clothing and guns, but it seemed a little strange to see a bunch of Aisians running around pretending to be cowboys. It is flattering that other cultures want to emulate that period in American history, but that piece of cultural history is uniquely ours. If they want to co-opt it for their own enjoyment, I say go for it but do not expect everyone over here to appreciate their take on it.

Wuxia could be considered the Chinese genre equivalent of Westerns: It's the parallel concept of chivalry, heroics, old values, etc. Think Clint Eastwood and John Wayne, but substitute say, Wong Fei Hung, etc., instead.

Alessandra Kelley said:

I take it what you actually mean is a genre of Chinese story that is essentially identical to westerns in terms of plot, types of characters, situations, and motivations, rather than literally Chinese making cowboy stories in the American west.

It's a very interesting observation. Are people on this board amenable to cross-pollination?

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Or maybe inspiration. There is the well-known example of the Japanese film The Seven Samurai being the inspiration for The Magnificent Seven (or, maybe in that case, more than inspiration; it's basically the same plot with a western setting).

Why not?

Look what the Italians did for the genre. Inspiration comes from many sources.

Snitchcat said:

Wuxia could be considered the Chinese genre equivalent of Westerns: It's the parallel concept of chivalry, heroics, old values, etc. Think Clint Eastwood and John Wayne, but substitute say, Wong Fei Hung, etc., instead.

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Once Upon a Time in China is one of my favourite films, and I'd watch any wuxia film over a Western any day (which isn't to say I'm doing down Westerns, it's just where my preference lies).

I think they're two entirely different beasts, but with similar concepts. I also suspect there are other cultural types of stories that don't really have a place to call home here on AW. (My first thought on that was Beowulf, but I suspect it would find a home in Fantasy.)

Maybe we (and other areas of AW) should do some thinking on what types of stories are not currently represented and then ask Mac whether there's a possibility of a new forum or new split forum or ...

But, I will admit my first reaction to this question was "no way" on mixing Wuxia with Western. There may be similarities in story concepts, but there are so many dissimilarities in other aspects. And, I do think one of the goals of this forum is in revitalizing the interest in the American West and the periods of expansion and development, i.e., heavy on the history and accuracy. Puma

Puma said:

I think they're two entirely different beasts, but with similar concepts. I also suspect there are other cultural types of stories that don't really have a place to call home here on AW. (My first thought on that was Beowulf, but I suspect it would find a home in Fantasy.)

Maybe we (and other areas of AW) should do some thinking on what types of stories are not currently represented and then ask Mac whether there's a possibility of a new forum or new split forum or ...

But, I will admit my first reaction to this question was "no way" on mixing Wuxia with Western. There may be similarities in story concepts, but there are so many dissimilarities in other aspects. And, I do think one of the goals of this forum is in revitalizing the interest in the American West and the periods of expansion and development, i.e., heavy on the history and accuracy. Puma

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I agree! Wuxia is much better.

Anyway, I also don't think this is the right place for this thread. Maybe fantasy...?

Averon 2011 said:

People are short selling themselves if they think a Western is ONLY about cowboys and Indians set on American soil.

What about "The Three Musketeers" (France), "Robin Hood" (England), "Ned Kellly" (Australia), etc... Are they not also Westerns in their own right? If not, then what would you classify them as?

James Horner in his interview about The Mask of Zorro classifies the movie as a Western - I do not remember a stand off between cowboys and Indians anywhere in that film.

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Actually... even if there are no cowboys and Indians, the Western is a very American genre. Some of the sub-genres that come after are a little more bizarre though. (westerns in space!)

ETA: And quite honestly, Wuxia existed even before Columbus "discovered" America. So calling Wuxia: The Chinese Western is a bit of a stretch. It should be the Western: The American Wuxia.

Alessandra Kelley said:

Personally I agree with you. But it does seem the sympathies of most of the people on this board are thoroughly American Old West. You have good points to make, but this board may not contain your audience.

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That's what I'm more worried about. Better to get it into one of the other boards where you'll find more interest.

Averon 2011 said:

What about "The Three Musketeers" (France), "Robin Hood" (England), "Ned Kellly" (Australia), etc... Are they not also Westerns in their own right? If not, then what would you classify them as?

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Adventure.

I remember reading a few westerns set in Canada (different from the Canadian survivals like the works of Service, London, Mowat and Paulsen) in elementary school or something. Can't remember names, but there was a writer who worked with us who did something on the outer bounds of Canadian westerns (more falcons than horses.)

I know this is a bit of dead thread, particularly since the OP deleted all his posts, but I feel a call to weigh in.

Some of my favorite Westerns are set in Afghanistan. Robert E. Howard's classic Oriental Adventure tales feature a Texas gunslinger, Francis X. Gordon, aka El Borak, in tales of derring do in Central Asia & Arabia. So the idea of a Western (in several senses) protagonist in a story set in Asia is a given to me.

The first short story I ever completed was set in China and featured an American veteran of the Mexican War & '49er gone very far west to be a gunrunner in China. It had horses & bandits & Mongol swordsmen.

I guess what I'm getting at is I love Adventure tales. While the root stock of American adventure tales is the Western, the Adventure genre often was set in some exotic land. So maybe a bit of cross-cultural mash-up of Westerns with settings outside of America can have good results.

The defining characteristic of the American West was the struggle between the imposition of civilization's laws and those who desired to not live under those constraints. Once the frontier closed and there were no more hardy souls left to rebel against the restrictions being placed on what were perceived to be an individual's right to self-determination, democracy began its slow evolution towards socialism.

When you frame this struggle with the other unique elements found in Old West history such as the massive cattle drives, the steady expansion into the indigenous population's land by a foreign people and their resistance to it, a heavily armed population, and the driving forces of the gold and land rushes, you have a uniquely American experience unparalleled in any other country.

This is why, IMHO, chivalry, heroics, and old values alone can never make a "western" out of stories which don't take place in the western US. Not all of the elements I mentioned are overtly present in every western, but they are there lurking in the sub-conscious of the genre. I may enjoy those other stories, but they aren't westerns to me.

Cowboys & Commies

jdm said:

The defining characteristic of the American West was the struggle between the imposition of civilization's laws and those who desired to not live under those constraints. Once the frontier closed and there were no more hardy souls left to rebel against the restrictions being placed on what were perceived to be an individual's right to self-determination, democracy began its slow evolution towards socialism.

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A bit OT, but have you read A Cowboy Detective by Charles Siringo? I picked up that one recently & found Siringo had a very interesting perspective on socialism having seen the struggle of capital & labor in its rawest form (eg under a plank sidewalk while gunmen were hunting for him). Bombs, hired guns, assassinations, pitched battles in the streets of mining towns. Some fascinating stuff in Siringo's memoirs, and not exactly in favor of either the unions or the owners.

One of Siringo's opponents, Big Bill Haywood, who was pretty much a rugged individualist to the point of being a kook, ended up in exile in the Soviet Union & was a spokesman for Stalin.

Texas Ranger in China?

Alessandra Kelley said:

Oi -- You're getting reality all over the lovely mythology!

(I think it's neat, tho')

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You think that’s bad, you should see my shirt after I eat spaghetti with sauce.

Totally weird aside, a famous Western mercenary in China in the 1860s was Frederick Townsend Ward. He was a Yankee & had been a sailor, a '49er, a hired gun for William Walker in Nicaragua, and a Texas Ranger. Caleb Carr wrote a bio on him, The Devil Soldier.