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poetinahat
05-30-2011, 07:42 PM
Ohio State football coach Jim Tressel has resigned (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6606999) in the washup of various NCAA rules violations and an ongoing investigation.

As a lifelong Bucks fan - both my parents went to OSU - this whole episode has made me heartsick. I'm optimistic now that OSU can clean house, and I hope they will.

I dunno, though... top-flight college football seems so overblown and corrupt anyway, I'm not sure I care anymore. Rather see them either scale back to something like an actual amateur system, or just give up the 'amateur' guise and call it semi-professional.

mscelina
05-30-2011, 07:45 PM
In a bit of rather strange timing, Tressel's resignation was announced this morning.

I'm not surprised, honestly. I think Tressel's fate has pretty much been determined since the NCAA started its investigation and it was determined that the coach had lied. And it's a shame, really, that he chose to put winning over integrity.

However, it leads to an interesting question. I was involved with a major football program in college and have a good idea of the pressures put upon the kids who play at a program like Ohio State--the temptations that boosters with big pockets can offer to young players. Should the NCAA reevaluate their rules regarding compensation for the players who make millions upon millions of dollars for their universities? Some people advocate stipends for the players to keep those temptations at bay.

(And with my luck, OSU will get a scumbag like Urban Meyer as their next coach and I won't even be able to pull for them in the Michigan game from now on.)

mscelina
05-30-2011, 08:02 PM
Dangit, poet and I crossposted the same topic. Might need some mergage. Moderator? Moderator?

Forgot to add, too--since Urban Meyer just moved to Dublin (suburb of Columbus) I'm thinking his naming as the OSU head coach after the end of the football season (to let Urban get through his year contract at ESPN in the hopes that Columbus will hate the SOB less) has been a done deal since Tressel first got in trouble.

poetinahat
05-30-2011, 08:07 PM
I never understood why the five-game suspensions started in the next season, and not for the bowl game. That just was all sorts of hollow, especially if the players had then opted to enter the draft.

mscelina
05-30-2011, 08:15 PM
Well, at OSU as at most big programs, winning is everything. And it's a shame that a man like Jim Tressel, who I sincerely believe is an honest man at heart, bought into that philosophy so whole-heartedly.

Puts me in mind of other occasions when a coach should have made a stand and didn't. And just a very few where they should have and did.

Remember Lou Holtz's last season at South Carolina? When his players cleared the benches for a brawl with the Clemson team during the last game of the season, he refused to take his team to the bowl berth they'd earned. He said they 'didn't deserve it.' I thought that was the ballsiest thing I'd ever heard of--from a man half the size of most of his players. When Coach Fulmer was at Tennessee intially, he had a serious 'one strike and you're out' policy--regardless of who the player was. A suspicion of drug use? Gone. Skipping classes? Suspended. Questionable friends? Hard core chaperonage.

But then toward the end of his career, the players got ahead of him. During my time in school, monitoring the players was easier. Kids were so thrilled to get a shot to play at a major program like UT that they usually stayed on the straight and narrow. But lately, the players at the big schools are looking at the college careers as their audition for the NFL. They want the NFL lifestyle NOW and they think they've already earned it.

One of Tressel's greatest burdens was taking on kids that were trouble--like Clarett ten years ago and the current quarterback--whose sights weren't set on playing by the rules in collegiate football. They're looking beyond college to the big leagues and just aren't smart enough to keep their noses clean in the process. OSU's situation isn't isolated by any means, but because of Tressel's reputation for honesty and integrity, it becomes disproportionately bigger news.

robeiae
05-30-2011, 11:02 PM
I'm just glad we've never had these kinds of problems in Miami...

Haggis
05-30-2011, 11:10 PM
Hey, Robovowels. Does this sweater vest make me look fat?

Jcomp
05-31-2011, 12:13 AM
While I understand a rule is a rule and I'm not trying to excuse the players for breaking said rule... I still don't get why you're not allowed to at least sell your own stuff.

poetinahat
05-31-2011, 01:51 AM
While I understand a rule is a rule and I'm not trying to excuse the players for breaking said rule... I still don't get why you're not allowed to at least sell your own stuff.

Glad i'm not alone on this one.

Haggis
05-31-2011, 04:32 AM
The word is, it's deeper than this.

Of course, that patricular word is circulating here, in Ann Arbor, so who knows how accurate it is.

Wolverine fan that I am, I am not happy about this outcome. I can hear some of my OSU friends saying years from now, "well, you couldn't beat Tressel." As a Michigan fan, I wanted to beat Tressel, just as OSU fans wanted to beat Bo/Mo/Carr when they coached Michigan.

Still, I am sad about the state of college football today. I'll wait until all the information comes out, but basically, college sports seems to be nothing more than one scandal after another.

mscelina
05-31-2011, 04:42 AM
The word is, it's deeper than this.

Of course, that patricular word is circulating here, in Ann Arbor, so who knows how accurate it is.

Wolverine fan that I am, I am not happy about this outcome. I can hear some of my OSU friends saying years from now, "well, you couldn't beat Tressel." As a Michigan fan, I wanted to beat Tressel, just as OSU fans wanted to beat Bo/Mo/Carr when they coached Michigan.

Still, I am sad about the state of college football today. I'll wait until all the information comes out, but basically, college sports seems to be nothing more than one scandal after another.

And this is why:


While I understand a rule is a rule and I'm not trying to excuse the players for breaking said rule... I still don't get why you're not allowed to at least sell your own stuff.


Glad i'm not alone on this one.

Exactly. It was *their* stuff. And while the lack of sentiment is kind of disturbing for a football fan ("If I had a Big Ten Championship ring, I'd never sell it!" cry all those people who never had one) it is actually unethical? Particularly when the university is making buttloads of money exploiting those same players for promotional purposes, like---oh, I don't know...selling jerseys with their names and numbers on the back?

This whole mess is based upon a STUPID rule. Seems to me the NCAA should be more concerned about whether those kids are getting an education as opposed to whether they trade stuff for a tattoo, right? As long as someone else is getting rich off these kids *coughCamNewton'sdadcough* everything is okay. But if a college kid sells something that belongs to him and gets a tattoo for it, that's somehow illicit and we're going to keep the kids from playing for five games and fire the coach because he didn't rat them out on the stupid rule like he should have.

Yeah...but then again, the NCAA would have us believe that there's no way there can be a playoff for the national championship in football too, despite the fact that there is one for every other sport they sponsor. Whatever.

May be my last year even peripherally rooting for Ohio State. If Urban Meyer does get the nod--and that's all ESPN will speculate on throughout the whole football season--I'll end up hurling every time I see that jackass on the sideline. Gainesville deserved that slimebag; Columbus does not.

poetinahat
05-31-2011, 04:53 AM
Bowling Green (where I got my MS, where my mom got her Ph.D, and which is fifteen minutes from where I grew up) didn't deserve him either. But then again... when your school colours are brown and orange, you don't deserve much. :rolleyes:

mscelina
05-31-2011, 04:56 AM
Bowling Green (where I got my MS, where my mom got her Ph.D, and which is fifteen minutes from where I grew up) didn't deserve him either. But then again... when your school colours are brown and orange, you don't deserve much. :rolleyes:

As I also must don colors best used for a pumpkin with my sports gear (*sigh* Tennessee orange, gods help me) I totally feel your pain. It's bad enough that Urban Meyer moved to the state of Ohio. It's even worse that he lives less than thirty miles from me. But to be confronted with that asshat every night during the sports segments on the local news?

Damnit, I'm not a serial killer. I definitely don't deserve that. He was nasty before, but now that he has that lizard taint from Florida he's even more disgusting than before. :roll:

poetinahat
05-31-2011, 05:04 AM
But y'know, I think everyone I've ever met from Tennessee has been just a delight to know.

That I can understand. How all those nice people can stand to be from Ann Arbor -- that, my friends, is a puzzler. ;)

Haggis
05-31-2011, 06:44 AM
I never understood why the five-game suspensions started in the next season, and not for the bowl game. That just was all sorts of hollow, especially if the players had then opted to enter the draft.

Again, I'm hearing it's deeper than that. If it's not, then I agree with you. If it is, well, then we'll have to see what it's all about, I guess.



Damnit, I'm not a serial killer. I definitely don't deserve that. He was nasty before, but now that he has that lizard taint from Florida he's even more disgusting than before. :roll:
*In his best Swamp People accent, the Chihuahua says"

Chute 'em. Chute 'em.


That I can understand. How all those nice people can stand to be from Ann Arbor -- that, my friends, is a puzzler. ;)
Nice people? Who? Where? :D

blacbird
05-31-2011, 10:28 AM
It helps explain Tressel's success at OSU. Two or three years ago he was regarded as the model coach in major college football. Tressel knew how he was operating violated the rules, and blatantly lied about that when confronted with the factual information. Ultimately, he was caught out about the lies as well. OSU is better without him.

And I don't accept the cynical view that "they all do it". They "all" don't. In the Big Ten Conference alone you have solid, successful programs at Penn State, Iowa, Wisconsin that have never had to fire a football coach for these kinds of egregious rule violations. And make no mistake about the nuances: Tressel was fired, though he was permitted to fall on his sword with some minor degree of face-saving grace.

Tressel will be back coaching at another hungry-for-glory major college football program within two years (Syracuse? Washington? UCLA? Texas A&M? Colorado?).

Puma
05-31-2011, 04:04 PM
Go way on back to when Clarett was wined and dined by OSU. Remember the newscasts of the incoming freshman Clarett moving into a sumptuous room that had about as much resemblance to a college dorm room as a penthouse suite to a second floor closet.

Sports (read that as football) are everything at OSU, forget about an education. I live twenty miles away from the horseshoe (and have spent a lot of time across the street at the ice rink), and I wouldn't give a plug nickel for the OSU "professional" football team.

That word, "professional", is a lot of the problem - not just in football. Look at all the Olympic athletes who maintained their "amateur" status while being paid hundreds of thousands of dollars so they could compete for their countries. The problem with amateur sports these days is everywhere.

But, I'm going to join the group that doesn't understand why the OSU football kids couldn't sell things they were given. Puma

robeiae
05-31-2011, 04:40 PM
Given the circumstances, I'm wondering if the OSU AD isn't goona have to follow Tressel out the door.

What an incredibly stupid series of decisions by these two...and the university president.

PorterStarrByrd
05-31-2011, 05:04 PM
[QUOTE=mscelina;6195040]Well, at OSU as at most big programs, winning is everything. And it's a shame that a man like Jim Tressel, who I sincerely believe is an honest man at heart, bought into that philosophy so whole-heartedly.
[/QUOTE

No personal offense intended but ... (always say that we we get so close to making one, don't we?)

Bias revealed: I am in the U 0f Oregon sports hall of fame (not as Parter Starr Byrd) so I could have a dog in this fight, but I don't.

Saying a coach, who has done what he did, at both Youngstown and THE OSU, is honest at heart is like saying the drug cartels are OK because they build schools and hospitals.

He is is a cheating scumbag. He is the current centerpiece for what is wrong with coaching in all the major college sports. He is also evidence that OSU (certainly not exclusively) wants to win more than it wants to hire a clean coach.

See his history at Younstown.

Those who follow college sports could provide a list of coaches like Tressel who have left more than one sports program in shambles as they moved on in their 'career paths'. Unfortunately, this will probably not be his last coaching job.

Until coaches (to put the responsibilty where it belongs) are suspened/banned, AD's (to make them think before ignoring certain blemishes on resumes) are fired/banned
and programs are heavily sacntioned (not to punish current players but to put the pressure on fan alumnae) This sort of thing will continue.

Monetery compensation for players, beyond the value of a scholarship, is another discussion but, even if resolved to the players benefit, will not eliminate the cheating. Coaches like tressel will find a new way to gain an edge by cheating.

What has to happen is absolute intolerance for the violators, not excusing them in light of the 'good' they have done for the team and then sending them off to sign another multi-million dollar contract somewhere else.

robeiae
05-31-2011, 07:43 PM
SI's article on its investigation into Tressel and OSU:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/magazine/05/30/jim.tressel/index.html

Worth the read.

Haggis
05-31-2011, 08:23 PM
Whoa!

AlanF
05-31-2011, 09:05 PM
Good post, Poetinahat!

How unfortunate, yet another story shedding light on some of the negative vibes associated with big time collegiate sports programs. Once upon a time, the best team won with eligible players, nowadays it saddens me to wonder if the "winning" team is fully compliant within all the NCAA rules...

playground
06-03-2011, 06:40 AM
I'm glad, I hope the whole NCAA blows up so we can solve this problem once and for all. Which more than likely it will, this isn't going to go away. OSU is far too big of a program to be able to sweep this under the rug.

mscelina
06-03-2011, 07:11 AM
No personal offense intended but ... (always say that we we get so close to making one, don't we?)

Bias revealed: I am in the U 0f Oregon sports hall of fame (not as Parter Starr Byrd) so I could have a dog in this fight, but I don't.

Saying a coach, who has done what he did, at both Youngstown and THE OSU, is honest at heart is like saying the drug cartels are OK because they build schools and hospitals.

He is is a cheating scumbag. He is the current centerpiece for what is wrong with coaching in all the major college sports. He is also evidence that OSU (certainly not exclusively) wants to win more than it wants to hire a clean coach.

See his history at Younstown.

Those who follow college sports could provide a list of coaches like Tressel who have left more than one sports program in shambles as they moved on in their 'career paths'. Unfortunately, this will probably not be his last coaching job.

Until coaches (to put the responsibilty where it belongs) are suspened/banned, AD's (to make them think before ignoring certain blemishes on resumes) are fired/banned
and programs are heavily sacntioned (not to punish current players but to put the pressure on fan alumnae) This sort of thing will continue.

Monetery compensation for players, beyond the value of a scholarship, is another discussion but, even if resolved to the players benefit, will not eliminate the cheating. Coaches like tressel will find a new way to gain an edge by cheating.

What has to happen is absolute intolerance for the violators, not excusing them in light of the 'good' they have done for the team and then sending them off to sign another multi-million dollar contract somewhere else.

I believe if you read my post carefully, you will note that I said:


And it's a shame that a man like Jim Tressel, who I sincerely believe is an honest man at heart, bought into that philosophy so whole-heartedly.

Now then, as a Tennessee alumni who only supports OSU for one game a year (sorry, Haggis--tended bar in Ohio for too long and don't really like the idea of my husband refusing to talk to me for two weeks every year at Thanksgiving) I really don't have a dog in this fight. I, too, live twenty miles away from the Shoe, and I frequently call the OSU team the "Suckeyes." Just because I can.

But here's the thing--I've met Coach Tressel several times, both when he was at Youngstown State and at Ohio State. He's a nice guy, good to his family and friends, pleasant to meet and associate with. Is he some kind of jumped-lothario of cheating in football?

No, he's not.

Neither is Chip Kelly at the University of Oregon, which is being investigated at the moment by the NCAA for paying over $25k to a recruitment service and (among others) Lache Seatrunk's decision to go to Oregon. Neither is Chris Peterson at Boise State (one of the Duck's favorite teams, I sure) for their recruitment violations. And of course, not reporting players who sold their own personal possessions in exchange for tattoos is FAR MORE SERIOUS than potential recruitment violations--like paying for top tier recruits, right? I mean, Tressel's violation was one of omission, not one that involved actually paying for players.

Although to be fair, we'd have to ask Auburn and Cam Newton's dad about that, or USC and Reggie Bush's family, wouldn't we?

Win at all costs is a pervasive problem throughout the NCAA, particularly at big schools like OSU (Ohio, Oregon, or Oklahoma State) or Tennessee or even with the apparently-completely-above-board Oregon Ducks. If you want to clean collegiate athletics up entirely, then let's strip everything down to the brass tacks. Remove the athletic programs from the schools entirely, making the teams semi-professional organizations. Pay the athletes for their work from the billions of dollars universities make from exploiting them for promotional purposes. Let them stay nominally affiliated with the universities, but cut out all the bullshit about giving these kids an education or not having a playoff because they'd miss too much school and call it what it really is--a four year audition for the NFL.

That way, no one will get pissed off if Ohio State players trade rings for tats or University of Oregon coaches trade money for players. Everyone's happy then.

Except Michigan. They're still reeling from Rich Rod. And USC. They lost their victories, their coach, and their Heisman Trophy winner and got Lane Kiffin in exchange. And Florida, whose coach quit to spend more time with his family, promptly moved to Ohio, and who'll spend the remainder of his year-long contract with ESPN developing a whole new playbook for the 2012-13 Ohio State Buckeyes.

poetinahat
06-08-2011, 03:41 AM
Aaaand now Terrelle Pryor's gone (http://www.cbssports.com/#!/collegefootball/story/15209280/pryor-leaving-ohio-state-likely-to-go-into-supplemental-draft) to enter the NFL supplemental draft. So:
- he won't have to serve the five-game suspension
- he won't, as his lawyer says he says, "be a distraction to his teammates"
- he no longer has to cooperate with any NCAA investigations (whether he will is unknown).

Good thing for both sides - the downside, of course, is that he might not have to answer the hard questions. But hey, that's how this system appears to be organised.

I wonder if the Fiesta Bowl victory will be vacated.

mscelina
06-08-2011, 03:44 AM
Does it matter if it is? Not really. The game is over and has been for months. USC's 2004 BCS championship title was stripped from them this week too. But does that really matter in the long run?

poetinahat
06-08-2011, 03:48 AM
Of course not. Me, I'd love to see it vacated, because it's tainted. Hardly worth cheering about under the circumstances.

mscelina
06-08-2011, 03:54 AM
PRecisely. Personally, I'm ecstatic that Terelle Pryor is gone. I've not liked the kid since he came out with "Mika Vick" on his eye black like a moron. I'm almost tempted to drive the twenty minutes to the OSU campus and clean out his locker for him.

That being said, since the NCAA deemed it permissible to allow the OSU players to play in the Sugar Bowl and delay their suspensions until the 2011-12 season, it would be highly hypocritical of them to take that victory away. But I've not noticed the NCAA having a problem with hypocrisy to date; they're nothing but inconsistent.

poetinahat
06-08-2011, 04:24 AM
Yeah, good point. In my ideal world, OSU would vacate the victory themselves, regardless. Because, y'know, it's the Right Thing to Do.

But, on the other hand, that's the rules, the suspensions don't start until this season, and officially, they won.

Whoop-de-doo.

Haggis
06-08-2011, 05:08 AM
I'm glad, for OSU fans,that he's not coming back. On the other hand he might have been booed off the field. On the other hand, he might not have been booed off the field. Meh, whatever.

What about the other players? Not the 20 some the SI article talked about, but the ones covered by the NCAA suspension.

mscelina
06-08-2011, 05:20 AM
Pryor was probably about to lose his senior season and I have a feeling that's what influenced his decision--that and the basic greed he's exhibited since the news conference where he announced what school he was going to--and somehow managed to screw up *Ohio State.* I don't think the other players were implicated in the cars/cash dealio, and will return to play out the season. They need to. Pryor might have been a late round draft pick--maybe fifth round if someone wanted to develop him--but someone will pick him up in the supplemental draft looking to make a slash out of him. None of the others are quite ready for an NFL combine. They'll stay.

PorterStarrByrd
06-08-2011, 05:39 AM
Jury is still out on the scouting service but if U of Oregon cheated they'll get no bye from me. Haven't met Chip. He has brought things we never dreamed of to the field but if he cheated to do it .. I'd like to see him banned from coaching too.

He seems like a good human being but his family life, though very important, is not part of the job description he has to stay within to do his job. I WILL say that if he treated his family badly, I'd cease to back him (ala Ernie Kent, who I went to school, and a few parties, with) and hope the school would sour on him as well.

In fairness, it looks like the scouting service was legit, used by many univeristies, though I haven't heard an update for quite a while.


and as for Pryor, another guy we wanted badly on our campus, I guess OSU got what they recruited. I certainly misjudged him but didn't know him as well as a coaching staff would have.

CARas
06-08-2011, 07:39 PM
I live in Oregon but I am not a huge Duck fan but they are better than the Beavers!! My team is the Fighting Irish!!

I'm not sure how but the NCAA rules need to be enforced. It has become so much about the almighty dollar that it sickens me at times. Those guys and girls who get scholarships should be happy that they do not have to pay the cost of going to college but that does NOT give them special privileges just because they can excel at sports. They are in college first and foremost to get an education. I'm not sure on all the rules but if a scholarship athlete goes pro before his four years are up then I think he must immediately repay the entire cost of tuition to the school.

What about red shirting? They need to do away with that too, either you are on the team or your not. To be eligible the player athlete needs to be able to get into the school so if your a good athlete but dumber than a post then go to community college and apply yourself to improve. It's bullshit that college athletes get special treatment. The coaches need to do their jobs as mentors, not look the other way when the rules are broken by players and they need oversight too for when they (coaches) break the rules.

More schools need to be like the service academies 4 years to graduate and if you are not doing well academically then you don't play.