Querying with e-published book

Generally, no. Check their guidelines.

Unless you've sold an outstanding number of copies.....

It would not be the norm as most publishers now see epublishing as a significant income stream.

James D. Macdonald said:

Generally, no. Check their guidelines.

Unless you've sold an outstanding number of copies.....

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Ditto.

Yes, if you've got good sales, you can probably get an agent to pay attention.

That said, the publisher will want the electronic rights, no question. If you're already making good sales, do you want to reduce your income by giving some of that to the publisher? There are some really good reasons to go with print, but that's a question you'll want to consider.

Edit: I assume you're talking about a self-published title here.

What if you withdrew the book from sale online then queried it?

Julie Reilly said:

What if you withdrew the book from sale online then queried it?

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Hmm. At that point 'first publication rights' have already been used. For electronic, that used to not be a big deal, but, these days, it's getting more important to publishers.

Hmm. Tough one. Someone with more experience dealing with agents will need to assist here.

Julie Reilly said:

What if you withdrew the book from sale online then queried it?

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You've still burned your first publication rights, AFAIK.

There's a reason why you should be Very, Very Careful about putting original work out there as self-published.

elisadasilva said:

Basically, I'm trying to decide whether to submit to an agent or publisher versus e-publishing through Nook, etc. Can you do both?

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A few questions you need to answer, I think - to make things clear.

Do you have more than one book? Is that ONE book already out there in self-pub format? If you only have the one book and it's out there already in selfpub format, you might want to get working on that second. And third.

e-pubbing does NOT equal self-publishing. I am with publishers who use ebooks as a primary way of publishing their books. I did NOT self-pub any of my books below.

If you want to submit to an agent or a publisher... put yourself in their shoes. Maybe you get a query about a great book, a really excellent piece of writing... but it's already out there in self-published format. Whether it's on the Kindle or through one of the vanity houses that take your money, it's still out there.

Why would I, as an agent OR a publisher, want to take on a book that's already been published in one way or another? Now, it may be a best-seller in SP format which may well happen and has happened and the agent or publisher might be interested in picking it up. But those are few and far between and if your book, no matter how good it may be, gets crappy sales through selfpubbing, it's unlikely any agent or publisher would be interested.

If you want to selfpub one book while shopping around another, that's a whole different thing. People do that all the time. But, again, be aware that your self-pub success or failure will impact somewhat on the agent and/or publisher being interested in your other works.

Just use your common sense.

And, again, e-publishing does not equal self-publishing.

(and this is all IMO based on my own experiences. Others may disagree due to their own experiences and all that.)

Sheryl Nantus said:

A few questions you need to answer, I think - to make things clear.


e-pubbing does NOT equal self-publishing. I am with publishers who use ebooks as a primary way of publishing their books. I did NOT self-pub any of my books below.


And, again, e-publishing does not equal self-publishing.

(and this is all IMO based on my own experiences. Others may disagree due to their own experiences and all that.)

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Excellent point, Sheryl. I was going to point out the same but you said it so well.

My experience is much like yours - I have three e-pubs out now, all through e-publishers, none self-pubbed. I have three to four more that will be out before fall, two more later this year, one for 2012 thus far. For all, I have followed the query, submission, acceptance, editing, publication, and promotion. I write for four different e-publishers at this time; all do business just a little differently but all are professional.

My latest release (out yesterday, Love Never Fails, is from Rebel Ink Press. They even have a promo guru.

To the original poster, why don't you do some research, look into the e-markets that are out there and submit to something that seems like a fit?

elisadasilva said:

Thanks for all the responses! I guess I am confused as to how self-publishing through Kindle or Nook is not e-publishing? I understand that there are several ways to publish 1) submit to agent or print publisher 2) Self-publish print copies 3) submit to an e-publisher 4) self-publish an e-version through Nook, Kindle, etc.

I wanted to know if print publishers frown on submissions that are e-published, self or otherwise. The general consensus is that each publisher is different, correct?

I am seriously considering self-publishing through Kindle, but don't want to if it would hurt my chances with a traditional publisher. I have not published anything. I want to decide what is best before taking the first step.

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Self-published or published by an e-publisher, once you do either of these things, it is unlikely a trade publisher will pick the book up unless it/your books collectively sell very, very well.

So, if you want to try at being published by a trade publisher, do not self-publish or allow a publisher to publish your book online first.

As for the difference between self-publishing and e-publishing...it's a common mixing of terms.

There are publishers who publish print and e-copies of books.

And publishers who only publish e-copies of books.

But both of these are publishers, who would offer some level of editing, design, marketing, etc. services. In exchange you would receive a percentage of the royalties from the sales and, maybe, an advance against those royalties.

But not all books published in electronic format are self-published. Some are published by companies that are the publishers.

So, when you are talking about creating yourself a kindle or nook version through a service that allows you to self-publish, then you are the publisher.

But if you sell your book to an e-publisher, they then publish the book and you get a cut.

So, others have suggested you research all your options - ie, compare self-publishing versus publishing with a reputable e-publisher.

But, again, back to your original question - if you decide you'd like to try to be published by a trade publisher, do not do either of these before you exhaust your efforts at finding a trade publisher interested in your book. Because once it is published - whether by you or by an e-publisher - it is unlikely to get picked up by a trade publisher without significant sales.

~suki

And, all of this said, there really aren't any 'rules'. A publisher will publish a good book, whether it has been put out there or not. Ultimately, the best thing you can do for yourself is write the very best book you can.

Also, don't be afraid to try. You won't burn any bridges, so long as you're honest about your book already being in publication. Dean Wesley Smith has some words on that: http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=4131

Burning first publication rights is not the problem it once was. In fact at BEA this year a lot of people were discussing that self-publsihing is starting to become the new "proving ground" for authors. It actually helped Michael's deal but he sold very well in ebooks first.

efkelley said:

And, all of this said, there really aren't any 'rules'. A publisher will publish a good book, whether it has been put out there or not. Ultimately, the best thing you can do for yourself is write the very best book you can.

Also, don't be afraid to try. You won't burn any bridges, so long as you're honest about your book already being in publication. Dean Wesley Smith has some words on that: http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?p=4131

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There's a lot in this post that I find contrary to my experiences, and some misguided from my perspective (though he and I are obviously coming from different perspectives), but I'm not going to dissect it or trash it. It's another perspective, and the OP can read it and compare Mr. Smith's advice and career path to the career path of other authors and decide which path to follow.

But, I will agree with Mr. Smith that self-publishing likely will not "kill" a career - hardly. But...it may very well make the specific self-published book unlikely to be picked up by a trade publisher if it doesn't sell well as a self-published book.

OP, do your research.

rsullivan9597 said:

Burning first publication rights is not the problem it once was. In fact at BEA this year a lot of people were discussing that self-publsihing is starting to become the new "proving ground" for authors. It actually helped Michael's deal but he sold very well in ebooks first.

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Not sure who's opinion this one was. It's not what I'm hearing from most in the trade end of things - it is what I'm hearing hypothesized by some promoting the e-publishing and self-publishing trends, and I don't think anyone can point to more than the exceptional cases - and that's my point. Sure, if your self-publish or e-publish and sell exceptionally well, sure that might help. But the vast majority of people who self and e-publish are not going to have those exceptional sales.

Read what Amanda Hocking has to say about banking on the exceptional.

So, sure, it's not a career killing move, but self-publishing or e-publishing a specific book can't help that book get published by a trade publisher unless it sells exceptionally well.

If it sells 100 copies or less, as many, many, many self and e-published books do, it will actually make it harder to get an agent or trade publisher to look at it at all.

So...why make it any more difficult? There is nothing that e-publishing it or self-publishing it can do to add value to the book unless it sells very, very well. Exceptionally well.

If it's of the type and quality of book to be published by a trade publisher, then self-publishing or e-publishing it won't make it any better or more attractive, and likely will make it more difficult. So...

Again, if you want to be published by a trade publisher, then exhaust those efforts before you try self or e-publishing that book. But, if you're willing to give it a go at e-publishing or self-publishing, without any concern for trade publishing, than do your homework and make a strategy for doing so.

I'm not saying don't e-publish or self-publish - hardly - I'm just saying if the OP's ultimate goal is to have this particular book published by a trade publisher, he/she should try that avenue first, before e-publishing or self-publishing this specific book.

~suki

elisadasilva said:

Thanks for all the responses! I guess I am confused as to how self-publishing through Kindle or Nook is not e-publishing? I understand that there are several ways to publish 1) submit to agent or print publisher 2) Self-publish print copies 3) submit to an e-publisher 4) self-publish an e-version through Nook, Kindle, etc.

I wanted to know if print publishers frown on submissions that are e-published, self or otherwise. The general consensus is that each publisher is different, correct?

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I'm not sure exactly what you want to know but if you question is whether or not a traditional print only publisher, large or small, would be interesting in buying a ebook already available, then the question is most likely - NO. They don't want a book already published in any form, that readers have already had in their hands, that have earned reviews and have publicity. The sole exception might be if the book in question were so totally awesome that they might want it anyway but I would still say it's very unlikely.

All of my ebooks have signed contracts with each epublisher so it's not like I could shop any of the published or contracted titles around anyway.

You might be better off trying to just market your work to a publisher, traditional, big six, small presses, or epub.

The fact that every publisher is different does not prevent some general trends. Like most of them generally wanting properties with rights intact.

suki said:

If it sells 100 copies or less, as many, many, many self and e-published books do, it will actually make it harder to get an agent or trade publisher to look at it at all.

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I would submit that if it sells only 100 copies or less, the odds of it actually having found an agent and/or publisher going the trade pub route were extremely slim anyway. Self published books selling that poorly, in my experience, are usually selling that poorly because they are badly written books.

And 100 is very poor, these days. I could probably sell 100 copies of my five year old's picture book, with a little effort.

Again, if you want to be published by a trade publisher, then exhaust those efforts before you try self or e-publishing that book. But, if you're willing to give it a go at e-publishing or self-publishing, without any concern for trade publishing, than do your homework and make a strategy for doing so.

I'm not saying don't e-publish or self-publish - hardly - I'm just saying if the OP's ultimate goal is to have this particular book published by a trade publisher, he/she should try that avenue first, before e-publishing or self-publishing this specific book.

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Yeah, agreed. If your goal is trade pub - seriously, that's your main target, over all other things - then why bother wasting time with self pub at all? Understand your own goals and aspirations, and then make decisions based upon that.

It's also possible to do both. You might write one book that you have in mind to sell to trade publishers, so you start shopping it around. Meanwhile, you write another novel that you self publish while the other one is still "out and about". There's no real reason why you need to be locked into one or the other.

I agree with pretty much all of what Kevin says in post #20, except:

- It's possible a book that is poorly turned out as a self-published book or even an e-published book could have been made publishable by a trade publisher through targetted and intense revision directed/motivated by an agent or editor that takes an interest and suggests revisions. Revisions based on an agent's or editor's suggestions can make an unpublishable book improve significantly.

- Many, many self-published and e-published books do sell less than 100 copies, for a variety of reasons. I too think anyone doing even a half-assed job of marketing a decent self-published or e-published book should be able to sell at least 100 copies. But...many don't, and I don't know if that is because of the quality of the book or the quality of the marketing efforts.

Havings said that, the person would have to sell way more than 100 copies to attract a trade publisher's attention.

~suki

No argument with either point, suki. I'd submit that the *odds* of the first happening are slim - I think with the mass of books available to agents/publishers that the odds of a poorly written one being accepted are fairly slim. But it's possible. Completely agree on the "100" comments.

suki said:

- It's possible a book that is poorly turned out as a self-published book or even an e-published book could have been made publishable by a trade publisher through targetted and intense revision directed/motivated by an agent or editor that takes an interest and suggests revisions. Revisions based on an agent's or editor's suggestions can make an unpublishable book improve significantly.

-

~suki

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Just want to toss in a note here that if your books are epubbed through a reputable epublisher, your work WILL be edited, revised, and otherwise given a professional polish just as it would at ANY publishing house. The editors I've had the privelege to work with at epublishers are as professional, knowledgeable, and talented as any I've worked with for my work that has gone into some major anthologies, national mags, literary pubs, etc.

Epubbed, once again, does NOT mean it is necessarily of inferior quality or that the standards are lower or that the publishers are somehow "less".

I've read some pretty major editing overlooks in print books from the Big 6!

Well, an epublisher of trade books *is* a trade publisher, right? Just one who focuses on a specific format.

johnnysannie said:

Just want to toss in a note here that if your books are epubbed through a reputable epublisher, your work WILL be edited, revised, and otherwise given a professional polish just as it would at ANY publishing house. The editors I've had the privelege to work with at epublishers are as professional, knowledgeable, and talented as any I've worked with for my work that has gone into some major anthologies, national mags, literary pubs, etc.

Epubbed, once again, does NOT mean it is necessarily of inferior quality or that the standards are lower or that the publishers are somehow "less".

I've read some pretty major editing overlooks in print books from the Big 6!

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Johnny,

thank you for that post. I never meant to imply all e-pubbed books are of poor quality - that is NOT true, obviously. Many e-pubs are reputable and produce high quality, well-edited e-books. I totally agree with that.

Some do not, but some print presses don't either

My quoted statements were made in the context of discussing those poorly produced, selling few copies books might have had a chance if they got revision notes from an agent or editor - but the same is true if they landed with a reputable e-pub where an editor worked with the author, as well.

~suki