Horse abuse/neglect fact-checking (warning: totally le sad)

Okay, it really depends on several factors.

Firstly, are they moving constantly for a week straight, ie@ no rest/sleep etc, because they will die within 2-3 days.

Also, depending on the distances travelled, and the heat, they can drop dead of dehydration or heart failure.

A well fitting harness shouldn't rub, but if they are wearing it for that length of time then the hair underneath will fall out and they can get sores.

If they are still in the shafts then they won't be able to lie down, and they may refuse to pee - horses can't pee and move at the same time, and male horses don't like to pee on a hard surface because it splashes back.

A horse will drink around 8-12 gallons of water a day, in warmer weather this increases so too if they are working.

Not only do horses loose water, they loose electrolytes through sweat too. If these are not replenished then they will start to loose performance. They can develop 'thump' which is a sort of muscle twitch, or azoturia, which is also called 'tying up' and is basically where the horse's muscles seize and the horse can't move. This has further problems because the horse's body can then start to break down the muscle. It's very painful for a horse.

Also, what are the horses eating? How are they eating? Has food been brought along? Are there planned stops? If the horses are in harness then they will have trouble eating with a bit in, and there is the risk of choking. A horse needs to eat around 2.5% of it's body weight each day. More if it's working hard

Shaldna is bang on with all the points. Frankly, I couldn't see driving horses 'hard' in harness for more than two days if you want them to recover.

Just wanted to chime in my agreement- one week straight will give you dead or next to it horses. You will need hours of down time between each hard push. The horses need to recover, eat hydrate and just chill. If you want the baddy to kill the animals them yup that would do it an d we would still hate him.

You're confusing conditions. A stage line with "Scheduled stops" means changing horses, and conceivably drivers as well. So if the monster takes over, and pushes the horses HARD to the next stop. The stage master, innkeeper, post master - whatever - will see the horses, and change them out.

Thats the way stages cross the country.

In. Stages.

http://www.wellsfargohistory.com/stagecoach/stagecoach_history.htm

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stagecoach

Yeah, you keep dribbling out bits of information to argue against points we bring up. IT would be helpful if you could be more forthcoming.

First of all - you can't drive horses non stop for a week. Hell, you can't drive them non-stop for a day. You have to stop. You have to feed and water and rest them or they will die.

That's it.

There's nothing else to it.

Now then - you say they get to stop, and get food and water - because it's a 'regular' stage line.

Then you say... what? It's deserted? No one is taking care of these stops? What happened to the horses and people at these locations? No one there to change out horses?

The driver has NO knowledge of handling a six horse stage? You realize, that's like asking someone to drive and 18 wheeler, who doesn't know how to drive? Handling a six horse team, driving and braking a stage coach - is an incredibly difficult task. WHERE did he get the skills to handle a six horse team? Do you know how many REINS he has in his hands, and how he manipulates them?

It's not going to be believable. He needs to rest and water and feed the horses. Yes... he could do this while they're in harness. A few times. But they are going to need sleep - and they need to be unhitched and re-hitched.

Not a very realistic scenario - with or without monsters. Driving a six horse team is not something a city slicker is going to do.

When taking off and putting on harnesses, especially for a six horse team, under pressure from a monster, it is easy to mismatch harnesses with horses (now you have ill fitting tack which will rub and later scar), or to adjust pieces improperly.

When they do break, it can be for a minimal time, not allowing horses enough food and rest. If there's no good food to be had, especially grain, the horses will be the worst for it.

You can also have a horse or two go lame. Stone bruise, white line from too much damp ground and stalls, whatever. Then they keep getting driven on, getting lamer and lamer.

You can also do emotional damage- whipping them on, yelling, whatever. With the monster making them nervous, they won't be too cooperative about getting harnessed and then hitched. The person getting them ready may have 'no choice' but to get heavy handed with them. By the end of the trip they don't want to stand still for harnessing (a critical aspect of their training), let alone line up to get hitched. They might prance about, step on their handlers' toes, throw their heads, kick, whatever. Anything to resist the unpleasant experience.

At the end of the trip you have neglected horses, some lame, all with ruined training that can't be hitched. If the monster really pushes on the last day of the trip you can have them tying up, colicing, whatever. He doesn't care- he just has to reach X, right? If the horses drop dead five feet from the end, it's no skin off his back.

I can't find the news story about the person who left horses to die after riding them to death in the midwest. Instead, here's another abandonment story: Horses abandoned in snow. (Link won't work at work. Google indicates this article is good.) If not, here in ranting blog form.

Might give you some ideas... The Fugly blog is certainly full of neglect cases, but most are standing in a pasture.

From what you've said, although there will be food and water, the horses won't be unharnessed? at all?

Okay, so how will they eat> Horses need to put their heads down to eat and drink, if it's a six horse team then the horses in the back won't be able to get at water or food unless they are unhitched.

I owned a draft that clearly wore an ill fitting collar harness (don't know the proper term, but collar isn't wrong). He had scars on his neck where it rested, lower down, and also on his shoulder from other harness straps. His nose had a huge bald spot (well, his muzzle just above the nose) either from a bridle or an ill fitting halter. He had presumed whip marks on his rump, and a scar above his left hind hoof that caused a permanent scar on his hoof wall. You could walk behind him no problem, but if you stopped he'd get wary- if you tried to do anything he'd freak and act like you were about to whip him on.

As for breaking equipment- not just from a poor fit. That's tough stuff. If you cross stuff that shouldnt cross or the horse smashes the wood carriage or pieces, then yes- breakage.

As for the hitching, not hitching issue- You can leave them hitched for short rest breaks, but as has been pointed out they can't eat (except grain bags- but if not cooled off, that;s bad.). You can leave them partially harnessed, but you risk them rubbing or wearing or destroying the harness. Horses can eat with the bit in, especially tender grass.


The reason some of these threads appear to go astray, is we need to know the end result. You've gotten a lot of info on driving and staged stops, because that's an important plot point. You've told us SOME of what the end result must be (abused horses at the end of the unpleasant trip) but details always help. I gave you some possibilities (lame, tied up horses) but more info helps us help you.

If you want to run a scenario by us based on the info you've gathered, we can give feedback and check for issues on that...

PS- go to youtube and search for horse wagon/carriage/draft accident. There's some crazy stuff. Horses crashing through a parade. Horses going crazy at a show in a large venue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03YcT74h5Mg

Also, also- I should say you CAN have random breakage of the harness/carriage if it is ill maintained, but don't force it. A week of minor abuse is not that big a deal. If you need that plot point, then fine. If not, leave it be. Like I said, an upset horse can certainly kick/stomp a wood piece if needed. Or kick another horse like happened between Ginger and Black Beauty in the movie iirc. Or kick a person if you want them to suffer a bit. Draft horses scraping your ankles or stomping your feet is NOT nice. Trust me on that one.

What is the most important element here - time expended or distance traveled. Why must the journey take a week. You never tell us how far you have to travel. You never give us an idea of how far apart the 'stage stops' are located.

You keep saying 'a week'. What's the DISTANCE you need to go? Why is it important that this particular team of horses arrive at this destination. Why can't the horses be changed? Because the monster and driver don't know how? Then he doesn't know how to drive a six horse team. IF he knows how to drive a six horse team - he knows how to hitch/unhitch and harness the team.

You are setting out mutually exclusive conditions - this is the difficulty of the scenario.

Driving a single hack - is different, much different than driving a six horse team. I get that the monster doesn't understand the requirements, and is compelling the driver to continue - but he has to have the skills to manage a team and keep them ALIVE and in condition to pull a stage coach for a week - if he's not an expert, if there aren't replacement teams - it's not going to work. Something has to change.

His skill level seems to be the easiest thing.

Make him an expert. Make him struggle against the monster's demands - to try and keep the team working and alive by the end of the journey.

A novice simply can't do it without the right skills.

Your question: "is it possible to keep them harnessed for a week, with a normal work load plus food and water, and what would be the consequences?" - is answered -
"No" - You can't keep them harnessed for a week. It's not a normal work load.

A six horse coach - can cover much more ground, much more quickly with change of horse - than a six horse coach with NO change of horses. The 'resting' time gets increasingly longer and longer. The time to recover becomes greater and greater.

What is the compelling need. Distance covered? Time spent en route? This particular team of horses needing to arrive at a particular place? "Good, Cheap, Fast" - you can have two but not three - is the old standard.

You can have this team arrive, but in a longer time, with more numerous stops. You can have the coach and passengers arrive on schedule, but with a change of horses. You can have the driver be a novice/incompetent - but you won't get far.

No probs. Just let us know how it works out, and if you need more info we're about.