novel about arresting the pope

I obviously have not being keeping track, but what crimes is he accused of?

Legally and politically, it would never fly and doesn't work as anything other than a grandstanding scheme (or a farcical novel).

Amadan said:

Legally and politically, it would never fly and doesn't work as anything other than a grandstanding scheme (or a farcical novel).

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Or satire.

Well, that was a systemic crime. I would expect to see it charged as a conspiracy by a group. Or, as is more usual, an inquiry and restorative justice.

xNAL

but I agree that arresting the pope would never fly.

The pope is the head of Vatican City, which is recognized as an independent nation. Arresting him would open a can of worms - no head of state could ever feel safe travelling, as they would surely be disliked in at least SOME country.

So while I am all for arresting church leaders who commit or facilitate the committing of crimes, I think it would be cause world-wide chaos to arrest the pope.

Now there is an interesting novel: they arrest the pope, and the aftermath is that different nations go around arresting leaders they don't like. Maybe it starts WW3?

MarcMcClure said:

Now there is an interesting novel: they arrest the pope, and the aftermath is that different nations go around arresting leaders they don't like. Maybe it starts WW3?

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Oooh, I like that.

Thanks!

MattWalker said:

Oooh, I like that.

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Thanks Matt! Now write it and sell it. Just give me a nod in the Acknowledgments.

MarcMcClure said:

but I agree that arresting the pope would never fly.

The pope is the head of Vatican City, which is recognized as an independent nation. Arresting him would open a can of worms - no head of state could ever feel safe travelling, as they would surely be disliked in at least SOME country.

So while I am all for arresting church leaders who commit or facilitate the committing of crimes, I think it would be cause world-wide chaos to arrest the pope.

Now there is an interesting novel: they arrest the pope, and the aftermath is that different nations go around arresting leaders they don't like. Maybe it starts WW3?

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Arresting Popes used to be easier. Boniface the VIII was beaten up and so humiliated that he either gnawed off his own arm or smashed in his own skull or both. And then Dante put him in Hell.

see the Wikipedia on Boniface VIII.

Ah...yes...

Maxx said:

Arresting Popes used to be easier. Boniface the VIII was beaten up and so humiliated that he either gnawed off his own arm or smashed in his own skull or both. And then Dante put him in Hell.

see the Wikipedia on Boniface VIII.

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The wonderful days of yore, when people did whatever the hell they wanted.

Italy could decide to abolish the Vatican city as an independant state.

the Vatican City was granted independence by order of none other than Benito Mussolini. It was a reward for the Catholic Church's support for his coup.

If Italy were to decide to repossess the Vatican City, there would be murrmurs of protest, but nothing substantial.

The Pope could also potentially be arrested while traveling overseas.

Then you have the head of state problem.

The thing to do would be to fall back on the Medieval trick of setting up an Anti Pope.

Maybe you could bribe the swiss guards to overthrow him, and set up the Free Republic of the Vatican City.

Who would be arresting him? The U.N.?

Started this like 2 hours ago and got interrupted. Sorry if it's a bit late.

veinglory said:

The Pope could also potentially be arrested while traveling overseas.

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Technically he can't. To do so would be to throw out international law. It's like the Pinochet thing: after being Chile's dictator for 20 years, torturing and killing political opponents (as well as anyone else he/they damn well wanted to) he could still move freely around the world for YEARS, until red tape was unraveled enough to allow for his arrest.

I still say write the novel as:

Come on, guys ... run with it!

Technically he *shouldn't*. But once he is within the boundaries of another country they might just choose to not give a damn about international law (which in lesser ways happens quite a lot). The whole idea is a bit of a stretch but not impossible. Out of country arrests of former heads of state have happened (e.g. Pinochet).

Oh, I forgot, in 2009 there was an arrest warrant out right now for current Sudan head of state Omar Bashir. If he left the country they would have brought him in.

ladyvincenza said:

Anyone reading this probably knows that Hitch and Dawkins spearheaded a movement to arrest Pope Benedict, which as far as I can tell didn't work because as a "head of state," (which the job of Pope arguably isn't), he has immunity.
I'm sketching out a novel in which the guys really DO arrest the pope. Does anyone out there know (I've asked a couple of atheist lawyers, haven't heard back yet) what, if anything, would enable us to do this, and what the process would look like?
I don't think it takes a vehement anti-theist to want to apprehend the pope for his crimes, btw. Just sayin.'

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I think the biggest question for the process is who 'us' would be in this context.

The U.N. rarely gets involved in arresting Heads of State. The only examples are people widely regarded as directly responsible for genocide. I don't think you would easily convince a large number of countries that the current Pope falls into this category.

An individual country can do it if he sets foot on their soil. But in most countries the warrant would need to be in place before the visit. I would think planned visits would be postponed/cancelled. Even assuming a nation does arrest him, how will they weather the storm of outrage? Catholicism has around 1.2 billion adherents, many of whom will be less than amused.

If you are planning this as a serious (as opposed to satirical/farcical) plot then these issues need addressed. Not that there is a problem with doing so - the fallout from the arrest could be interesting material.

zornhau said:

Then you have the head of state problem.

The thing to do would be to fall back on the Medieval trick of setting up an Anti Pope.

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I agree. The antipope is the way to go. I would have him consecrated by one of the Patriarchs of the pre-Roman Church (there used to be Patriarchs for Alexandria...)
a Copt would do.

Used to be? There still are. www.[B]patriarchateofalexandria.com[/B]

Send Cataphracts to arrest the Pope!

zornhau said:

Send Cataphracts to arrest the Pope!

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Where are the Byzantines when you need them? Always using that obliterated empire excuse to do nothing.

Actually, I think Byzantine ecclesiastical authority might have technically devolved onto the Primate of Moscow.

Get a giant genetically enhanced Russian ape to arrest the Pope. Since the ape would not be human, human laws would not hinder him in the execution of his ecclesiastical errands.