Anyone here have experience with recording a demo CD? What's involved in this? My characters have the use of a recording studio for 2 hours to make a demo of five original songs. Is that realistic scenario?
Recording a Demo CD
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There would be several factors involved. Firstly, how well equipped is the studio? I've recorded in studios with top-of-the-range equipment (admittedly only the once!) and in a friend's garage with a battered old 8-track. As a rule, the better the equipment, the quicker the process will be (having said that, if the equipment is especially complex, that might take up time)
The other major factor is this: how long are the tracks and how well rehearsed are they? 2 hours is not a very long time and would mean that, depending on the track length, there wouldn't be a lot of time for do-overs. Under these circumstances, the band would have to be fairly well-rehearsed, to the point where they would be comfortable with the songs (of course, they could re-record a few times, but not at leisure) If each song is 4 minutes long, that's 20 minutes, not including the time it takes to set up. Assuming nothing goes wrong and each song is recorded three times (we always did three takes. Not sure why) you've taken up an hour.
The other major factor is this: how long are the tracks and how well rehearsed are they? 2 hours is not a very long time and would mean that, depending on the track length, there wouldn't be a lot of time for do-overs. Under these circumstances, the band would have to be fairly well-rehearsed, to the point where they would be comfortable with the songs (of course, they could re-record a few times, but not at leisure) If each song is 4 minutes long, that's 20 minutes, not including the time it takes to set up. Assuming nothing goes wrong and each song is recorded three times (we always did three takes. Not sure why) you've taken up an hour.
I plan to make the band fairly well rehearsed and the equipment mid-range good. They aren't a great band. The outcome is that the band isn't signed but a producer offers to produce the original songs my main character wrote (to the chagrin of his band mates).
Thanks for your info so far. How do you see that scenario working? Would the producer offer the song writer a contract to produce his songs with another band? What might that contract look like?
Alas, that's where my knowledge ends; I've only ever recorded independantly and never with a producer! I'm assuming the producer is present during the recording process? Or do they take the demo to him/her afterwards?
When you say "the use of," what does that mean? When I recorded my first demo with my first band in the mid 90's, it took us all day in a studio to get through three tracks. We also had a studio engineer there, which is pretty much a must because most bands won't know the recording equipment.
Recording a song in a studio is not like playing a concert. Typically you end up recording every instrument separately at some point, you add tracks and layers, and you do many many takes.
Bear in mind, I haven't been in a studio since the late 90's, and between now and then the digital revolution happened. I'm sure the equipment itself is much different, but ultimately I can't see how the process of layering tracks and recording songs from multiple takes could have changed that much.
All that being said, I'm sure somebody will be able to come on here and tell you about how their punk band recorded an entire album between the 8:00 pm and 9:30pm on a drunken Saturday night and some prog rock group will tell you how it took 3 months of 8 hour days in the studio to get half a dozen tracks. Like everything else, "it all depends." But I don't really see 5 tracks in 2 hours from a band who has never been in a studio before as being realistic, unless they're just doing a "live" style recording.
Recording a song in a studio is not like playing a concert. Typically you end up recording every instrument separately at some point, you add tracks and layers, and you do many many takes.
Bear in mind, I haven't been in a studio since the late 90's, and between now and then the digital revolution happened. I'm sure the equipment itself is much different, but ultimately I can't see how the process of layering tracks and recording songs from multiple takes could have changed that much.
All that being said, I'm sure somebody will be able to come on here and tell you about how their punk band recorded an entire album between the 8:00 pm and 9:30pm on a drunken Saturday night and some prog rock group will tell you how it took 3 months of 8 hour days in the studio to get half a dozen tracks. Like everything else, "it all depends." But I don't really see 5 tracks in 2 hours from a band who has never been in a studio before as being realistic, unless they're just doing a "live" style recording.
I had assumed they were doing a 'live' style recording. The Grift is right; if they are trying to record the tracks to album standard, it's going to take an awful lot longer.
These are terminology issues. Producer can mean the guy who really shapes the sound of an album, really becoming another member of the band. Guys like Rick Rubin and Steve Lillywhite are famous for creating the iconic sounds and tones of certain albums. They're basically like a director is to a movie. There's also the producer who is responsible for the business and money end of it. So, this might require a little wikipedia-ing to really understand the roles.
Thanks for all your help so far! This is great information.
I want the band to produce a demo cd of live-style recordings, using the studio and one sound engineer. I could up the studio time to 3 hours for 5 tracks, if that's more realistic.
I want them to send that demo to a music producer and that producer will offer the songwriter a contract to produce the songs with another band/artist.
How does that sound?
I want the band to produce a demo cd of live-style recordings, using the studio and one sound engineer. I could up the studio time to 3 hours for 5 tracks, if that's more realistic.
I want them to send that demo to a music producer and that producer will offer the songwriter a contract to produce the songs with another band/artist.
How does that sound?
My husband owns a recording studio.
Of course, he doesn't have the greatest equipment but one thing I know for sure is that it takes a lot more than two hours to record five songs.
First of all, like "The Grift" said every instrument is recorded separately. I remember one certain band recording 4 songs, and only the guitarist booked 13-14 hours in total.
After all the instruments are recorded, then it's time for the voice.
I don't know why they always do it last, maybe it actually doesn't really matter.
And after that, the band had to wait for the mixing and reproduction of their music.
I don't know if this helps, but seeing my husband locked up in that studio so many hours I can tell you that ONLY 2 hours for 5 songs are far from realistic.
Of course, he doesn't have the greatest equipment but one thing I know for sure is that it takes a lot more than two hours to record five songs.
First of all, like "The Grift" said every instrument is recorded separately. I remember one certain band recording 4 songs, and only the guitarist booked 13-14 hours in total.
After all the instruments are recorded, then it's time for the voice.
I don't know why they always do it last, maybe it actually doesn't really matter.
And after that, the band had to wait for the mixing and reproduction of their music.
I don't know if this helps, but seeing my husband locked up in that studio so many hours I can tell you that ONLY 2 hours for 5 songs are far from realistic.
Cool! Could you ask your husband how long it would take to record if the band plays the songs together, no recording individual instruments or voices, no remixing or overdubbing? Each song would be 3 to 4 minutes long and the band, though not great, is quite well rehearsed.
I want this to be a fairly raw demo, not a professionally produced, radio-ready recording.
Another question: How much would it cost to have recording studio time, plus one sound engineer? Like, on a per hour basis, for example?
Ok.. No recording individual instruments or voices, no remixing, and a well rehearsed band should need as much time as their songs are.
Of course, when a demo is recorded that way it usually can't be sent to a producer etc. because of poor quality.
Something else that I find interesting is that when you record you should also have your mind clear; that one single thought that may make you sad or mad can change the whole feeling of the song. Someone can be playing the same notes on an instrument but depending on his feelings he may give a different sound to it.
I won't tell you this is true; I don't have experience in it, but I trust my husband
As far as prices go I guess it really depends. Studios charge you by hour, which ( here in Greece ) is around 10-12 euro's. The studio engineer gets paid separately and depending on how many songs he has to work on and how many hours he spends on it.
We had to pay someone 50 euro's once, for 3 songs that he spent 1,5 hour on. ( all three of them )
Of course, when a demo is recorded that way it usually can't be sent to a producer etc. because of poor quality.
Something else that I find interesting is that when you record you should also have your mind clear; that one single thought that may make you sad or mad can change the whole feeling of the song. Someone can be playing the same notes on an instrument but depending on his feelings he may give a different sound to it.
I won't tell you this is true; I don't have experience in it, but I trust my husband
As far as prices go I guess it really depends. Studios charge you by hour, which ( here in Greece ) is around 10-12 euro's. The studio engineer gets paid separately and depending on how many songs he has to work on and how many hours he spends on it.
We had to pay someone 50 euro's once, for 3 songs that he spent 1,5 hour on. ( all three of them )
Anywhere from $50-100+ dollars an hour in the states. Engineer included. I'm sure they can be found for much less and much more, especially now that everyone has a copy of Garage Band on their macbook. Another point of terminology, the engineer is the guy responsible for operating the recording equipment. He's usually less involved in the creative aspect than a producer is. The engineer may suggest things, but is primarily concerned with making sure the tracks get recorded the way they should and sound as good as they can.
Is "Garage Band" a pc program? 'Cause "Guitar Pro" is really common here, and saves on a lot of studio hours.
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Well, Robert Johnson did about 16 songs in about 3 days with alternate takes for most of them. But recording was much simpler then. If your band hit every song in one take, it's conceivable. But not very likely.
Persuant to your other question, yes, it's quite possible for the songwriter to get offered a gig without the band, or just part of the band. The only example that jumps to mind is the original drummer for the Beatles (interesting trivia: who played drums on the album Please, Please me? It wasn't Ringo). The were required to replace him before they were signed. Perhaps the guy wrote a good song with a great hook but the drummer can't play a straight beat and the guitar player played the most hideous, out of key solo you've ever heard. as for what the actual contract would look like, can't help you there.
It's also quite possible to be signed simply to be a songwriter for other artists. I don't hear of it happening as much these days, but back in the 60's and 70's, people like Neil Diamond and Gordon Lightfoot made their living writing songs for other people before they became famous for their own performance skills.
It used to be the norm - either you were a song writer or you were a performer. The Beatles changed all that by writing their own stuff. I would be surprised if the Beibers of the world are writing all their own stuff, or at least not without a massive amount of "assistance".
man, reading this post, I'd guess I grew up in the 60's I'm only 32 though! Maybe we just need some newer, good music!
It's also quite possible to be signed simply to be a songwriter for other artists. I don't hear of it happening as much these days, but back in the 60's and 70's, people like Neil Diamond and Gordon Lightfoot made their living writing songs for other people before they became famous for their own performance skills.
It used to be the norm - either you were a song writer or you were a performer. The Beatles changed all that by writing their own stuff. I would be surprised if the Beibers of the world are writing all their own stuff, or at least not without a massive amount of "assistance".
man, reading this post, I'd guess I grew up in the 60's
I'm only 32 though! Maybe we just need some newer, good music!
You'll still find that sort of cross-over. Lots of artists started by writing songs for more established artists, and many more have gone from performing to writing and producing music for other artists.
Take for example, Linda Perry of the 90's band 4-Non-Blondes now produces and writes songs for Christina Aguillera, Pink, Jewell, Gwen Stefani and tons others who you may think of as writing all their own music. Additionally, many of those artists write songs for other artists (e.g., Pink and Linda Perry wrote a song for Faith Hill). As another example Kevin Griffin of Better Than Ezra fame still plays with BTE but also has written hit songs for Howie Day, David Cook, Train, and James Blunt, who himself writes a great deal of music.
Lots of artists work in lots of roles, often changing hats as necessary. Many R&B and hip hop producers start by "writing" beats and producing albums for other artists (e.g. Kanye West), or writing songs and producing for other artists (e.g. Babyface), or they move into that after establishing themselves (e.g. Dr. Dre).
If your main character gets a couple of songs out there, chances are with even a modicum of performance talent they would get a record deal for a solo or band effort as well.
So, what if my MC is more comfortable being a song writer than a performer? Could he then sign a contract for any songs he'd already written, with some kind of clause that gives him royalties on sales of any of his songs that sold? Would they be called "royalties?" Could he also be contracted to write more songs?
Despite being an attorney I can't help you with the legal stuff or contracts for the songwriting. I do believe that the songwriter gets royalties, although I am sure there are also many deals where the song is sold for a flat fee. It's a really complex area of law right now and there are a lot of arguments and cases about who exactly has to pay what to who in order to perform a song, use a song, record a song, etc.
Nobody is going to force someone into a record contract. There are too many American Idols with no songwriting ability that need hit singles. If your character can sell songs, they can be a songwriter. There are many many many songwriters who don't perform.
It's a computer program for recording that comes bundled with most Apple products that aren't iPods (such as Macbook Pros, iPads, etc). It's pretty basic, as far as I understand, but some band did just release an album recorded entirely on it.
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Hey CG,
As everyone else has said, time is tight.
First off, the band will need to set up their gear: drums, amps, etc. Secondly, all their gear, the drums, amps etc. will need to be miked up. Drums alone, if a producer is involved, could easily take an hour. There's could be a microphone for each drum plus a couple of overheads. Amps would me miked up too, unless the guitars/keyboards are going straight into the mixing board.
Then the levels will have to be set. Recording levels and, as they're recording a live set, each individual's headphone level.
So if it's their first time in a studio, that's two hours gone, easy.
In saying that, you could ditch the big studio idea. Home recording is pretty sophisticated now. You can either use a computer, running Cubase, Protools or Logic, or use a standalone digital recorder. So the band could record their music in someone's front room. No producer or engineer necessary.
As to a producer offering to record the songs - the musicians he'd get in would receive a session fee, usually dictated by Musician's Union rates. The songwriter would still hold the rights to the songs, as long as no publishing deal has been done, and the producer would get the rights to the recordings.
It was common in the 60s. Shel Talmy recorded a load of bands, The Kinks, Them, The Who, and licensed the recordings. In the US, Roger McGuinn was the only member of The Byrds to play on Mr. Tambourine Man.
So your band could make their own CD, at home, but play some concerts and it's the gigs that bring them to the attention of the producer.
ETA - Royalties are made up of Songwriting and Performance. The songwriting royalties are collected by a publisher, contract involved, and the money goes to the writer and the publisher as per the deal. You can have a Publishing deal without a Record deal.
Performance royalties go to those who played on the session, i.e. the band, unless they were playing for a session fee. These are administered by the PRS.
For a good example, think of the Beatles. Paul and John, since they wrote most of the music, were much richer than Ringo and George.
Hope this helps,
Whacko
As everyone else has said, time is tight.
First off, the band will need to set up their gear: drums, amps, etc. Secondly, all their gear, the drums, amps etc. will need to be miked up. Drums alone, if a producer is involved, could easily take an hour. There's could be a microphone for each drum plus a couple of overheads. Amps would me miked up too, unless the guitars/keyboards are going straight into the mixing board.
Then the levels will have to be set. Recording levels and, as they're recording a live set, each individual's headphone level.
So if it's their first time in a studio, that's two hours gone, easy.
In saying that, you could ditch the big studio idea. Home recording is pretty sophisticated now. You can either use a computer, running Cubase, Protools or Logic, or use a standalone digital recorder. So the band could record their music in someone's front room. No producer or engineer necessary.
As to a producer offering to record the songs - the musicians he'd get in would receive a session fee, usually dictated by Musician's Union rates. The songwriter would still hold the rights to the songs, as long as no publishing deal has been done, and the producer would get the rights to the recordings.
It was common in the 60s. Shel Talmy recorded a load of bands, The Kinks, Them, The Who, and licensed the recordings. In the US, Roger McGuinn was the only member of The Byrds to play on Mr. Tambourine Man.
So your band could make their own CD, at home, but play some concerts and it's the gigs that bring them to the attention of the producer.
ETA - Royalties are made up of Songwriting and Performance. The songwriting royalties are collected by a publisher, contract involved, and the money goes to the writer and the publisher as per the deal. You can have a Publishing deal without a Record deal.
Performance royalties go to those who played on the session, i.e. the band, unless they were playing for a session fee. These are administered by the PRS.
For a good example, think of the Beatles. Paul and John, since they wrote most of the music, were much richer than Ringo and George.
Hope this helps,
Whacko
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Do studios ever have equipment set up already that musicians can use, especially something unwieldy like a drum set? What if my characters brought the small instruments, like the guitar and bass, and used the studio's drum set, already set up and miked? Is that ever done?
A guy in a band I hung with many years ago told me how they had a producer in the studio who rearranged a song, moved the bridge around and stuff. The Beatles producer George Martin apparently did that sort of thing, including every once in a while playing an instrument. He played the speeded-up piano instrumental on "In My Life."
IIRC The guy handling the business and the money would be called the "Executive Producer," but if there's one of those involved, it surely has to do with a major label.
Here's a collection of articles aimed just at bands going into a recording studio for the first time:
http://www.itrstudio.com/articles.html
Here's a pertinent quote (I read this years ago and it's even worse than I remembered, I though it was more like an hour per song):