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View Full Version : Dydd da, Cymrodion (Wales Thread)



Carmy
04-09-2011, 08:49 AM
Well, no one else seems willing to start a thread for Wales, so I'm doing it.

I'm from Wales but I now live in Canada, and my Welsh is getting rusty. Two of my books are set in Wales -- Land of My Fathers and The Last Druid. The third book is set in Calgary, my hometown now -- The Agency.

So come on in and let's get together.

Hwyl!

Carmy (from Carmarthen)

Xelebes
04-09-2011, 08:58 AM
I have a few books in my library in Welsh that were my grandmother's and I'm only picking out random words. I know one of them is a hymnal,the Llawlyfr Moliant, because it is written in plainsong (that is, do-re-mi.)

Other than that, I can't form a single sentence.

Carmy
04-09-2011, 09:05 AM
LOL I'm getting that way, too. I never thought I'd lose my own language.

Llawlyfr means handbook. I'm assuming Moliant is a person's name -- unless I've forgotten more than I thought.

Medievalist
04-09-2011, 09:45 AM
Moliant means "praise"; it used to be one of the traditional poetic genres in early Welsh poetry; makes sense for it to be a hymnal title.

Bryan V
04-10-2011, 03:43 AM
I'm trying to learn Welsh (through saysomethinginwelsh.com I think). I'm really into the Welsh mythology (one of my favorite books is The Mabinogion).

jennontheisland
04-10-2011, 03:55 AM
My grandmother was Welsh and I have the dragon tattoo to prove it. I grew up in Calgary, but I'm a couple provinces east of that now. :(

Medievalist
04-10-2011, 04:29 AM
I'm trying to learn Welsh (through saysomethinginwelsh.com I think). I'm really into the Welsh mythology (one of my favorite books is The Mabinogion).

You can learn enough medieval Welsh to read the Mabinogi in less than ten weeks.

Go here (http://digitalmedievalist.com/opinionated-celtic-faqs/learn-medieval-welsh/).

Bryan V
04-10-2011, 06:39 AM
You can learn enough medieval Welsh to read the Mabinogi in less than ten weeks.

Go here (http://digitalmedievalist.com/opinionated-celtic-faqs/learn-medieval-welsh/).

Sweet! Thanks!

kborsden
04-10-2011, 07:09 AM
(one of my favorite books is The Mabinogion).

ARE the Mabinogion. Mabinog is singular.

Medievalist
04-10-2011, 07:13 AM
ARE the Mabinogion. Mabinog is singular.

For that matter, Mabinogion isn't Welsh, technically. It's a scribal error that Lady Guest and her colleagues misunderstood and the word stuck.

The four branches are The Mabinogi; the other seven tales in Rhyderch and Hergest are individually titled, and not identified as mabinog or even a cainc at all.

Bryan V
04-10-2011, 08:41 AM
ARE the Mabinogion. Mabinog is singular.

Did not know that! I'm kinda new to the stuff, but I love it anyway.

Medievalist
04-10-2011, 09:39 AM
Did not know that! I'm kinda new to the stuff, but I love it anyway.

You might wanna check out this (http://digitalmedievalist.com/opinionated-celtic-faqs/mabinogion/) and this (http://digitalmedievalist.com/opinionated-celtic-faqs/mabinogion/).

kborsden
04-10-2011, 09:52 AM
For that matter, Mabinogion isn't Welsh, technically. It's a scribal error that Lady Guest and her colleagues misunderstood and the word stuck.

The four branches are The Mabinogi; the other seven tales in Rhyderch and Hergest are individually titled, and not identified as mabinog or even a cainc at all.

There's a tonne of non-Welsh - but generically Celtic shit in the mabinogs at any rate too. There's also the flawed ideal by many unknowing scholars that any Celtic fairy tale can also be a mabinog - sometimes even arthurian legend...thing is the true Welsh mythologies are far far older than medieval - but most are lost, and many that were documented destroyed. That's what comes of a culture forced into near extinction...

Bryan V
04-10-2011, 11:32 AM
but most are lost, and many that were documented destroyed. That's what comes of a culture forced into near extinction...
Yeah, I've heard plenty about that.

Deb Kinnard
04-17-2011, 03:58 AM
So good to find a Cymraeg thread on this loop. Would any of you speakers be willing to check my usage? It'd involve scoping out a single word in a sentence or three. My WIP is set in 974 Clwyd, among other venues, and I'd love to make sure the words I use are accurate in their context.

Tanydwr
04-23-2011, 04:48 PM
Hi, I was born and raised in South Wales until I was 7, studied English Lit at Cardiff University and have a Welsh grandmother (Nain, at that!). Unfortunately, I don't remember anything apart from some numbers, colours, and a handful of words.

I'd really appreciate some help from a native speaker - my request for help can be found here: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6068200&posted=1#post6068200. It doesn't have to be strictly accurate, perfect Welsh, but it'd be good if a Welsh person wouldn't sit there and laugh their arse off at my feeble attempts. The one thing I do need in accurate, Modern Welsh is 'my husband' - my character is a half-Welsh polyglot thrown into a fantastical world that uses a language almost identical to Welsh in the north as the nobility's and law's tongue, and then an almost identical to English language in the south, but also across the country as a trading tongue.

Just as the Welsh doesn't need to be completely perfectly accurate, the English includes using 'beseech' and 'beg of' as alternatives to 'pray/pray to', 'brookening' for 'celebration', and plenty of old-fashioned words and phrases that aren't used much anymore. But I can't use Latin-derived words in English, which means I have to be equally careful with Welsh. This is even more difficult than English, because at least I can read English and find etymological dictionaries online and at home.

Help appreciated!

I miss Wales...

Deb Kinnard
07-20-2011, 10:51 PM
Tanydwr, did you find anyone who'd be willing to check your Cymraeg words? I never got a reply and kborsden does not accept PMs.

This book (PEACEWEAVER) is all but ready for my agent to begin sending it out, so I want to make sure my language choices are as close to correct as I can make them.

Medievalist
07-20-2011, 11:02 PM
Tanydwr, did you find anyone who'd be willing to check your Cymraeg words? I never got a reply and kborsden does not accept PMs.

This book (PEACEWEAVER) is all but ready for my agent to begin sending it out, so I want to make sure my language choices are as close to correct as I can make them.

I'm probably the best bet you've got for Old Welsh, and honestly, Old Welsh is a language of the book, even more so than Old English, and my books are all thousands of miles away.

Were I you, I'd post a question to the Welsh-L list (http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/liosta/welsh-l/), and look for someone with an .edu email address. You might try Dan Melia at the University of California, Berkeley, or Heather Rose Jones (google her; you'll find her Web site right away), a lovely person, a writer and a Celticist.

A native Welsh speaker who isn't an academic/philologist, isn't going to be of much help. The language is very very different.

Deb Kinnard
07-21-2011, 01:12 AM
Thank you, Med. I'll do that.

Madeley
08-18-2011, 05:18 PM
Hi! Newbie here. I'm bilingual, and I work for the Welsh Government. I've helped draft Assembly legislation in both languages, and I'd be happy to help anyone with the Cymraeg if they'd be interested.

Komnena
08-19-2011, 12:59 AM
I'm glad to see a Welsh thread. My father's family was Welsh a long time ago. I'd like to know more about my Welsh heritage and will look at the recommended language site.