Perspective on one's own writing

Dunning-Kruger in effect.

Usually I think what I write is garbage, but after a few months, if I read it again, I'll be able to pick out things I like.

Maybe you're too hard on yourself. I think we're our own worst critics.

Perhaps take a break and give your work to a beta reader. Perhaps fresh "outsiders'" eyes can see things clearer than the author.

Haha I've been there, Bartholemew. Gone to bed with visions of publishing contracts dancing in my head, then woken up and had to restrain myself from trashing the whole thing and tossing the computer out the window. I rewrote chapter 17 of my novel at least ten times. It's all just a part of the process, I suppose. Just remember; get it down, then get it right.

Bartholomew said:

I've evolved to the point where, even if I think I am writing the absolute worst crap ever, I'll keep writing [...]

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I doubt that. Honestly, if you're that harsh of a critic on your own writing, you probably won't keep writing. Because there is no way to word a story that cannot be considered crap given one perspective or another.

I think I can comment on this as a kind of experts because I specialize in reading self-published and small published works. Honestly, the writing is not the biggest problem.

I mean it can be. If you're truly uneducated in English and make horribly distracting gramatical or usage erros, then sure, it can really be crap. But chances are, if you were that kind of writer, you wouldn't think your writing was crap. You'd probably think it was great--you probably wouldn't even bother to edit your rough drafts.

You probably don't like the way it "sounds" and I'm telling you, that doesn't matter that much. Amanda Hocking sounds juvenile, but then she writes for YAs. A writer I just reviewed, Deric Shaw, uses very academic and proper British English. But when it comes to reviews, one has to accept that there are different styles in writing. You have to accept that about your own writing, too.

There is no "best" way to make your writing sound. There has been this movement in the last few decades to make everything sound like the standard English of a newspaper article, to strip away every "unnecessary" word, to make every sentence active, and to eliminate every adverb. And what do we get? James Patterson novels and medium gray sounding prose in every book.

You should strive to be conisistent in your voice throughout your novel, and don't try to make it "right." Just make it you.

What are you writing anyway?

Hm. Have you tried altering your method? You mention using an outline, have you tried playing with the way you use it, or the way you construct it?

This is just my own experience, but once I got my personal method down, most of the doubt disappeared: I just needed to have spent enough time planning and weeding and editing in the outline phase to be absolutely sure I knew what each scene was about, what each character needed to feel and think and act like in this particular scene (and how it related to their overall development), and exactly where the scene needed to end up.

Once I got this method down, I had some very tangible planning to consult whenever I didn't quite know whether character A should be saying this particular line right now, etc. Plus I knew that I loved the scene before I started.

Of course this is my method, I'm not saying you need to do what I do - but maybe messing around with your method will help a little?

Bartholomew said:

Interesting phenomena last night. I was editing my WIP and was generally pleased with what I had written. Got tired. Went to bed.

Woke up, reread the page, and thought, "This is the worst, unreadable dreck. What am I doing?"

As a sane person, I realize that my writing is not really quantifiable in terms of quality--it's strings of words to create meaning and I either get that meaning across to other people or I don't. My strength of the craft is my grasp on what gets the closest-to-exact version of my idea across to the largest number of people. Which means being aware of words, their meanings, syntax, white space, and all sorts of other things.

Likewise, I understand intellectually that the quality of my ideas is neither good nor bad. I am either telling a story people want to read or I am not, and one interpretation of quality is that I am telling a story that lots of people want to read.

So why can't I look at my writing and see anything but absolute shite?

Seriously considering Prozac.

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You can always judge writing in terms of quality. Same with storytelling, characterization, dialogue, etc. It's simply difficult to judge your own writing this way. The only reason large numbers of people want to read anything is because something about it is done very, very well.

But the obvious answer is to stop reading what you wrote yesterday. Wait until the story is finsihed, then read it. Then ignore any subjective judgment. No matter what you think of your writing, others always get the final say. You can think what you write is wonderful, and everyone else will hate it. You can think what you write is pure crap, and everyone else will love it.

Jamesaritchie said:

You can think what you write is wonderful, and everyone else will hate it. You can think what you write is pure crap, and everyone else will love it.

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That's the whole paradox about it and unfortunately writers can't (quite) avoid it. I experience the same problem many times only to come back and see that it's not such a bad paragraph but it could use a couple of corrections and edits here and there, but to me even the "leave the manuscript alone" for one, two, three months after you've finished the first draft doesn't cut it.

You're just too immersed in your own work to view it exactly like an average reader's. The perspective will always be skewed against you.

I have to go to outside sources. Or wait a pretty darned long time before I read it again. Of course, I start with what I would like to read, but the fact remains that there is only so much I can distance myself and see it like a fresh reader.

So I usually just get a few fresh readers. Hopefully, I'm improving my ear for what others truly like, too. We'll see

Many if not most writers go through exactly the same thing. I know I do. I've managed to write entire pages I think are pretty damn good, but as a whole ... well, I feel I'm a fraud and I can't believe others don't see that.

I know a fairly big name author, very successful, with numerous books out. We were talking about this exact thing, and he told me a story about reading over a ms and actually calling his editor to withdraw it because it was such utter crap.

His editor gently reminded him he'd said exactly the same thing at one time or another about his last ms, and about every other ms he'd submitted -- all of which were damn good, btw.

Most people who think their stuff is great are not very good at all, in my experience.

Mine never feels quite right or good enough. I need a third party with no vested interest to tell me honestly whether or not they liked what they read, and whether they would pay to read it. The answer has been no in the past. Lately, that has evolved to a yes so I started querying last week.

During the writing process,I am full of happy and epic delusions of grandeur. I enjoy assembling the plot and getting to know the characters. The words flow and a good time is had by yours truly with occasional giggling fits. Then after the book is finished,I let my inner bitchy critic out. I see the violently purple prose,plot holes you could drive a semi through,and passages that are so dull that I wonder how such crap came from my mind.

I believe there is a time and place for each part of your writing personality. My happy side is in full control as I write. I don't nitpick or second guess. I just flow. My evil harpy comes out during revisions ONLY. That's when its most needed. Never do I allow it to be my companion while I write. I would never finish anything! I think all writers have these sad moments where we generally want to sob and roll on the floor. In my case,I eat a lot of Godiva. But you can't let self-doubt get the best of you. Engage in a little whining and then keep it pushing.

I don't recall ever thinking anything I wrote was good. I just fake it. I put it out there. When it hits something and sticks, I think, "Whodathunkit???" The answer is always, "Not me!"

I'll have one day that I think I'm truly the next best thing, and the next, I'll reread the same chapter and find it all to be a pile of utter shit. I try not to listen to myself on either day.

Said The Sun said:

I'll have one day that I think I'm truly the next best thing, and the next, I'll reread the same chapter and find it all to be a pile of utter shit. I try not to listen to myself on either day.

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Well put.

I live most of my life as a writer in the area between those two points, which I suppose is the opposite state of the OP's.

I'm always equally surprised by glowing reviews and negative remarks - I find it amazing in its own right that people can have real, human feelings about the things I write. I keep expecting everyone to read my stuff and go "that's nice, dear", and then go back to ignoring me.

We're our own worst critics. Outside eyes, like betas, may help give a more objective view.

CobraMisfit said:

We're our own worst critics. Outside eyes, like betas, may help give a more objective view.

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Yep. THis is exactly why another set of eyes on your works is very valuable.

My boyfriend, who is a 3D artist, told me last year that we are our own worst critics. We know every little detail about our story (or artwork in his case), every little flaw, every thing. We pick at it. Bangs our heads on the desk, or keyboard or where ever else we can.

I have been writing since I was pre-teen also. And I go through the same thing. One minute I absolutely love my story.. it is the best thing out there and I'm going to get published. Next minute I am seriously thinking of scrapping the entire idea and going about my life as it was before the idea started.
I may live in one thought process for days before it changes.

I finally decided to hand my story over to a beta reader. Now she has me back on track. Sometimes it takes a different set of eyes, and a friendly word.

Umm what perspective?

If you work this one out, let us know. It's really hard, in my experience, to tell the difference between good and bad in your own writing. I guess the only thing to do is, 1. Keep at it, no matter what; and 2. Share it with people.

A little bit of feedback from others is really helpful to keep motivated and gain a bit of perspective over what works in our writing/what doesn't. That said, I really need to share my writing more, lol.

For me, I can be terribly critical of my own writing - to the point where I'd just mess around editing all day, if I wasn't aware of this problem. And often it seems like the less hard you try, the less you show off with your writing and just keep it simple, the more readible it becomes.

I personally always think my writing is crap until I get a chance to read through it. After reading through it I don't only think it's crap, I know it's crap. This is why I just keep writing, then edit and do it all over again.

My honest belief really is that my writing IS crap. The ideas may be good but so far only a few pages really satisfy me in a way I can just leave them be. Actually, it has to be crap. There's no way it's anything BUT crap because I lack experience.

However I know from other things (modelling, texturing, coding) that I follow this pattern in everything I do. The trick for me is to have 'sanity moments' when I step back and be objective about what I do.

I stop being hypercritical me and look for the good and the bad. This tends to give me a fairly clear picture of the way things really are. While I like feedback from others to support this, feedback can be as harmful as it can be helpful. As a result, I trust only that which I can actually agree with. Anything I don't agree with, I ignore (good or bad, I need to agree with it!).

Drawing from those experiences which seem to mirror yours, I guess you're a bit like me and very critical of your work. This is a good thing in principle as long as you do not take it overboard. Allow yourself those moments where you look for not only the bad but find out what's good. My mom of all people used to tell me this every day. It took me a good part of 10 years to learn the value of seeing the positive as well as negative aspects of, well, anything.

Sometimes it feels like I'm being too positive or who knows what. Other times it feels more like an honest assessment.

Fact is, regardless of if we agree, we aren't all bad or all good. We're somewhere in the middle.

I'd also like to quote:

My boyfriend, who is a 3D artist, told me last year that we are our own worst critics. We know every little detail about our story (or artwork in his case), every little flaw, every thing. We pick at it. Bangs our heads on the desk, or keyboard or where ever else we can.

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Specifically concerning 3D art this has happened to me so many times. I'll find all sorts of flaws. I'll hate it for the flaws. Someone will look at it and think it's totally awesome. And I have to bite my tongue not to point out all the flaws no one but me will ever see.

I think that very few of us have supreme confidence in our writing abilities. Those who do are probably unable to see the foibles of their own ways. I have written my manuscript and thought, "this is pretty good", read it the next day and had no enthusiasm for it or sense that it was good, gone back the next day and thought "this is great." And so on and so on.

I have also then read other writers of the same genre as my novel and thought, "I don't write like them at all. Theirs seem so much better than mine." Then I stop and think, "maybe it is a good thing I don't sound like them. My 'voice' offers a slightly different perspective than other writers in the genre and that doesn't necessarily mean it's bad. It just means I have a recognizable style" It can drive one crazy over the speculation if you don't let go of it.

I think our opinion of our own efforts varies with our mood from day to day. But at some point, we have to test the waters and see if our boat will sail by putting it up for public scrutiny. Otherwise, you have to live with the regret of never knowing all the rest of your life.

Bartholomew said:

Interesting phenomena last night. I was editing my WIP and was generally pleased with what I had written. Got tired. Went to bed.

Woke up, reread the page, and thought, "This is the worst, unreadable dreck. What am I doing?"

As a sane person, I realize that my writing is not really quantifiable in terms of quality--it's strings of words to create meaning and I either get that meaning across to other people or I don't. My strength of the craft is my grasp on what gets the closest-to-exact version of my idea across to the largest number of people. Which means being aware of words, their meanings, syntax, white space, and all sorts of other things.

Likewise, I understand intellectually that the quality of my ideas is neither good nor bad. I am either telling a story people want to read or I am not, and one interpretation of quality is that I am telling a story that lots of people want to read.

So why can't I look at my writing and see anything but absolute shite?

Seriously considering Prozac.

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I do the same thing. I will think something is well written, and then later on it looks horrible. I think the bottom line is that we are our own worst critic. It's easy for us to tear our work apart. It's easy to become enslaved to editing, editing, editing. In fact, we are perfectionists.

I guess the solution is to write your story, make sure it's edited to the best of your ability, and then get it into the submission process.

Love the bold part above!