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Vanessa
10-19-2005, 08:34 PM
Oops... excuse me, Was thinking out loud again....:rolleyes:


Hope everyone's having a good day.:)

Vanessa
10-19-2005, 08:51 PM
My mom actually thinks I'm crazy for considering it! :D

paprikapink
10-19-2005, 09:08 PM
The wrong husband is far, far, FAR worse than no husband. The right husband is a good thing, but...there ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

In my own experience, dating a boring guy was... boring. Marrying a "boring" guy is soothing. Not boring at all. YMMV.

aruna
10-19-2005, 09:08 PM
My mom actually thinks I'm crazy for considering it! :D

Want mine????

Carole
10-19-2005, 09:20 PM
DEAR Lord GOD IN Heaven, Vanessa: Please don't jump too fast. You are such a vibrant, witty, intelligent, beautiful girl. How sad would it be to have that wasted on someone who isn't worthy?

I wholeheartedly agree that the wrong husband is WAY worse than no husband. Hubby and I lived together for 5 years before getting married and it still takes work sometimes. I married ex-jerk straight out of high school and he refused to work on anything. That's why he is the EX-jerk.

Divorce is a very ugly thing. Even if you don't love that person anymore, it is also a very painful thing. I will always feel as though an entire decade was stolen from me by a man who refused to live up to his end of the bargain. My salvation is my two precious boys from that marriage. My boys, and the knowledge that I chose wisely the second time around :)

Tiaga
10-19-2005, 09:24 PM
My wife tells me I could be available?

StoryG27
10-19-2005, 09:33 PM
I'm still working on a way to clone my hubby and send his lab manufactured twins to smart women who deserve a good looking, sweep-you-off-your feet, loyal, funny, strong, and sensetive man.
I've had some severe mishaps in the lab. The results have not been pretty. I'll let you know when I get it figured out though.

eldragon
10-19-2005, 09:34 PM
I can invite you to my house for a dose of "marital reality."

You know how they have those wilderness camps for wayward teens?

I should sell sleepovers to people who are considering marriage. A few days in this up and down heaven/hell will bring you back down to earth.

My husband is the classic case of "monkey see, monkey do." If he comes home in a bad mood .............and I'm in a good mood, he might cheer up. If he comes home in a good mood and sees I am having a bad day, watch out! He turns into the husband from hell.

Still, the smallest thing will set him off. Yesterday, he couldn't find the shovel. That was all it took to have him angry all night.

As soon as he gets in his car to go to work, he's on the cell phone apologizing for his rotten mood last night.

Who needs it?

We're all under stress from this freakin KATRINA bullshirt .................domestic violence is on the rise at the same speed as gasoline prices.


I don't have to worry about my husband beating me up, which is a good thing because he is 6'4" and weighs 220 lbs .........used to be an amateur boxer and Mr. Nevada.

So ..................Vanessa ............
Just think of the worst of times in a bad relationship .......the walking on eggshells ......jealousy, angry looks. Whatever.


However, there is one cardinal rule every woman must learn in order to survive a marriage:

Remember that the only real reason a man is angry is because he isn't getting enough sex. (which can be daily ...doesn't mean he has gone for a week or more.........we're talking frequent.)

This could be elaborated to worse case scenarios, as in .....he wants to have sex with his secretary and can't, so he's upset by that.

But, generally, when a man is upset ......about sports, something at work, not being able to find time to spend on his projects, or even "not being able to find the shovel," it is actually a metaphor for - "I'm not getting it right at this moment."

Carole
10-19-2005, 09:43 PM
Wow! I'm glad that's not the case with every marriage, Pam :)

eldragon
10-19-2005, 09:45 PM
Wow! I'm glad that's not the case with every marriage, Pam


Which part? The sex part? It is the case with every marriage. Absolutely.



Obviously you know what a bad marriage is like. I also know what a bad marriage is like. But, believe it or not, my current marriage of ove 10 years, isn't bad .....................persay. It's just that when we go through horrifically stressful events ................it tests most marriages.


Honestly, I have known many couples who were ecstatically happy and never fought. And, I kid you not ........ they all broke up.



Seems hard to believe. But, couples who argue, as long as its constructive doesn't involve drugs, physical or mental abuse, are more likely to stay together over time.

Watch the Bergman film "Scenes From a Marriage."

alleycat
10-19-2005, 09:46 PM
Oops... excuse me, Was thinking out loud again....:rolleyes:


Hope everyone's having a good day.:)
Is that Dead or Alive? And exactly how much is the reward?

ac

Carole
10-19-2005, 10:00 PM
Which part? The sex part? It is the case with every marriage. Absolutely.


I can't agree with that, especially being presented as an absolute fact beyond question. It's wonderful to have strong opinions, just please don't decide for everyone else what is absolute fact. I have a significantly higher sex drive than hubby does. When he comes home in a bad mood, it's because his checking account is low or he nearly sliced off his finger at work or because the truck broke down or his cellphone died. Not because he ain't gettin any or enough. Not all men are as out of touch with themselves as to be driven by the little head without realizing it. It's wonderful that you know your husband so well and it speaks volumes about your relationship that you do, but please don't assume that you know every man on the planet. I guarantee you that I know mine better than you, like you know yours better than I. Ex-Jerk? Sure! He was so driven by it that he couldn't see straight, much less keep it in his pants for more than 24 hours at a time (whether or not I was around)

I don't mean to be snippy. I just dislike being told what is true about my husband when I know it is not true. That's all :)

Tiaga
10-19-2005, 10:11 PM
I turned 50 this year and admittingly the sex drive is lower, but it never was a
driving force (sorry) in our marriage. Everything in life is on a case by case basis. ymmv

eldragon
10-19-2005, 10:11 PM
Well, I guess you're right. I was never in a relatonship with a man who didn't have a huge sex drive. Even my mom said she figured this out a long time ago wth my dad ..........the sex thing.


It actually makes things easy.

Knowing that almost anything can be made better by a roll in the hay, is an easy fix.


If I were in a relationship with someone who had a lesser sex drive than me, I'm pretty sure I'd be the one who was mad because I couldn't find the shovel.

It's a hormonal thing. Testosterone is serious. I can assure it I wouldn't
want to have it on my back 24/7.


Not all men are as out of touch with themselves as to be driven by the little head without realizing it

Interesting.

eldragon
10-19-2005, 10:15 PM
Also, a big factor is chemistry between people.

Did you ever work with a guy who acted like he hated you, but you found out later than he was totally in love with you? That has happened to me several times, and it might sound like I'm bragging, but I'm not. (We're not talking about Johnny Depp .........now that would be bragging).

Bottled up emotions, sexual tensions.


But its nice to know that my theories are wrong again.

Carole
10-19-2005, 10:26 PM
Not necessarily wrong, hun. Maybe just not right for everyone is all. Something else to think about might be this: Maybe a roll in the hay fixes things because it is a huge stress relief in general. Maybe perspective is easier to find afterward because the overall stressful condition is relieved? Just a thought.

eldragon
10-19-2005, 10:29 PM
I'll bet you're right.

ChunkyC
10-19-2005, 10:30 PM
I agree with the bit about arguing being healthy. Nobody's perfect, least of all me. If my wife didn't yell at me on an almost daily basis, I'd think she was plotting my murder. http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif

Seriously, there's nothing worse than keeping it all bottled up. The worst thing you can do is assume that your partner should know what's bugging you and wait for them to do something about it. Just quit playing games and TELL the poor bastard/ette before you explode and someone starts flinging crockery.

Sarita
10-19-2005, 10:35 PM
I agree with the bit about arguing being healthyMe too! I had this friend who told me that my husband and I weren't good for one another because we argued on occasion. I was like "Do you know me at all? Have you heard me talking with my sisters or mother? Yelling is how I communicate." ha. But seriously, he said that when he got married, he'd never argue with his wife... He's really unhappy now, after only a year of marriage. Bummer.

Moral of the story: Vanessa, don't go into it thinking wine and roses. Marriages are hard work! But worth it. :)

Carole
10-19-2005, 10:37 PM
Oh, most definitely. I agree, too. ex-jerk & I never ever argued. Sometimes he would have fits of rage, but we never fought...we never argued. I never raised my voice one time while he and I were married. He wouldn't allow it, and maintained me in a place where I was fearful to even try.

Hubby? Holey cow. (that's a cow full of holes.~laughing~)Yeah, we argue. Sometimes like cats & dogs. We never hit below the belt though. We can argue and get our points across without being disrespectful. It takes a lot of effort, especially when you are mad as a wet hornet, but it's possible.

paprikapink
10-19-2005, 10:39 PM
Generalities are generally true.

Wow. That is deep. I can't believe I never thought of it before.

But, nevertheless, we're not all generals. And even those of us who are take a day or two off from our generalness once in a while.

Vanessa, what do you want this husband for? Got a bug that needs squishing? Garage door that won't close properly? Want someone else to drive sometimes? Wish you didn't have to walk the dog in the rain? Got leftovers you can't finish? What?

Carole
10-19-2005, 10:43 PM
Maybe she just desires a companion :)

sassandgroove
10-19-2005, 11:13 PM
He could just be mad he couldn't find the shovel.

StoryG27
10-19-2005, 11:33 PM
My hubby and I DO NOT fight...to the death.

We actually don't fight anymore, argue, throw little fits, yeah, we do that, but our days of screaming at each other are over. We did that for seven years...and then we figured out it didn't work. And I, admittedly, was the button pusher, the hitter below the belt and he was the stone-waller. We were kids, trying to be play adults...and finally we had to become adults. Most of the time now, if we start arguing...it ends in laughter because we realize how stupid we're being.

Though through all our years of fighting, we still would rather be around each other (even when we didn't like the other at the moment) than anyone else. Also, sex has always been a driving force in our relationship. We both enjoy it, both have a strong sexual drive, both feel very connected during love making, and should probably be instutionalized for how often we still do it.

My hubby is the type, that even if he was honestly mad about the shovel being missing, if I said, 'Hey, wanna go have sex?' He wouldn't give the shovel a second thought (until he needed it again). He's not the type to be lead around by 'his little head' (though that's a cute saying and I like it) but he does have high levels of testosterone...honest...I'm speaking medically here. And he is just as vulnerable to his hormones as I am to mine, when I'm ultra sensitive, crying for no reason, or mad at him for looking at the wrong way, or when I have physical side effects of the hormones like cramping and such...I know hormones are making me act a little screwy, well, same for him, and he has physical side effects to his too.

We are two very passionate people, and the thing with passion is, it's not just love. Passion is in every emotion, including anger, jealousy, and of course love. So our fights were just as heated as our love...We just had to learn that we completely sucked at communicating with each other and had to admit neither one of us knew what we were doing...then we just helped each other through it. And now we are having the time of our lives!

BradyH1861
10-19-2005, 11:38 PM
My wife says that she will pay you to take me.

Brady

Jaycinth
10-19-2005, 11:56 PM
Oops... excuse me, Was thinking out loud again....:rolleyes:


Hope everyone's having a good day.:)

The only nice thing I can say about this thing that is passing as my marriage is that I have two of the greatest kids in the world and some of my in-laws are on my side.

My single friends use my 'man' as an example of why they haven't gotten hitched.

Get a brick. Apply it to my head. Repeat frequently.:Headbang: :Headbang: :Headbang: :Headbang: :Headbang:

ChunkyC
10-20-2005, 12:16 AM
We never hit below the belt though. We can argue and get our points across without being disrespectful.
That is crucial! Once upon a time before we were married, the Mrs. called me a jerk. Maybe I deserved it. (maybe?) Anyway, I got really upset, and we had a big talk about where the line should be drawn, and decided that was crossing it. 'No namecalling' has become our mantra and it always reminds us to not go too far.

Now she can tell me I'm acting like a jerk all she wants, she just can't say I am a jerk. Same goes for me, no using words like b*tch, etc. -- unless it's foreplay. http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/images/smilies/tongue.gif

arrowqueen
10-20-2005, 12:22 AM
An elderly spinster was asked why she'd never married.

She said: 'I've got a chimney that smokes; a cat that stays out all night and a parrot that swears. What do I need a husband for?'

pconsidine
10-20-2005, 12:50 AM
Here's the thing about marriage - you're never the person you were when you got married for very long. My wife was 18 when I met her and is about to turn 30 in three months. If you think that the things that are on her mind now are anything like what she was thinking when I met her, you're nuts. The key is that we're equally committed to solving whatever problems we may have together. If you leave yourself an escape hatch, you will take it.

On a side note, it's pretty damn insulting to hear that the only reason I, as a husband, could possibly be upset is cause I haven't gotten laid in a while. And my wife would be even more pissed off to hear that than I am.

Maryn
10-20-2005, 12:52 AM
I'm sure I'm not the only person here who's very nearly lost a husband with plenty of tread left on the tires, so to speak. It changes everything when the gods decide to give him back. We disagree differently, and for shorter periods of time. We try a lot harder to make sure the other one is happy--in bed and out. Biggest difference is the mindset--appreciating what's great about the guy you nearly lost instead of being annoyed with what's not.

For instance, I used to be annoyed as hell over his snoring--I couldn't sleep, not next to a freakin' sound machine, and a snoring husband guaranteed my mood the next day would be shrew-like. Only after his illness did I understand the depth of the Ann Landers schmaltz, that it's the sweetest sound in the world.

Ask any widow.

Maryn, whose beloved was in the 5% who recover completely (Yippee!)

pconsidine
10-20-2005, 12:54 AM
God bless you both, Maryn. I can't even imagine what I'd do in a similar situation. And I'm very rarely faced with a lack of imagination.

Unique
10-20-2005, 12:59 AM
Vanessa -

A lot of good comments here but the one thing you can never know until you've done it:

Sometimes you kiss a prince and he turns into a toad.

Sad but true. Check the back trail. Check it hard. Meet the family. Meet the family again, and again. I know and you know you're not marrying the family - but toads don't know that.

scfirenice
10-20-2005, 01:06 AM
You can have mine.

sassandgroove
10-20-2005, 01:57 AM
But in a weird way, you do marry the family and even the close friends, because now, not only do I have my hubby in my life, but I see or talk to his best friend daily, I have parent in laws, new cousins... and he has my family in his life. There is this whole set of people that I would either not have in my life at all or only know marginally. Luckily for me, our families like our respective choice in a spouse, and are pretty low-key. Hubby got really mad when we were watching My Big Fat Greek Wedding. I'd already seen it and liked it, and couldn't understand why it upset him. I totally didn't see it until he pointed it out. Not only was her family meddling and assuming and acting without taking the bride into account, let alone the groom, but she didn't stand up to her family. I saw this touching story where the groom is willing to convert and to what it takes to please her family so they can be together. But it is true. By not standing up for herself, she wasn't standing up for her groom either, which opens the door for the in-laws to continue to walk all over them. Hubby said she wasn't respecting him. I felt the need to defend the bride, because we have been fortunate. Just in our wedding planning alone, the only request hubby's mother made was to invite a cousin he doesn't really like, and my mother said "What do you want me to do?" We don't know what it is like to have that kind of family pressure. Pressure or not, the family is part of the deal.

I think it is important, like Unique said, to meet not just the family, but friends too. Like it or not, the company you keep says a lot about you, maybe more than your family, especially if you don't see much of your family anymore. I met my hubby because my best friend was dating his best friend. I tell people he came with references, because he's known his best friend(s) for some 20 years, and I met his best friend's family as well, and they all only had good things to say about him. Loyalty is a quality I admire, and find important. To me it speaks well of my hubby that he keeps friends for that long.

The other thing I wanted to say...and I know I have only been married a year...but I would like to echo pconsidine here. If I viewed my husband the Eldragon described, I think our year of wedded bliss would have been a year of turmoil. Hes got a lot more going on in his head than sex. Hes a smart guy, my geek. And he does a lot to take care of me. A hard lesson Ive had to learn, and thankfully I learned it before I met hubby, you have control over your mood. There is a line in Say Anything, Lloyd says to his sister (And I am sure this is paraphrased.) Why cant you just decide to be in a good and be in a good mood. To which she replies sarcastically, Gee, its easy.

Sarcasm aside, it is easier than you think, and important. If you know hell reflect a bad mood, make a point to BE CHEERFUL. Youd be surprised how often acting cheerful will cause you to feel cheerful. I have also found that when he is grumpy, angry, mad, or whatever, if I acknowledge him, listen to him, indicate to him that his feelings are valid, amazing things happen. He cheers up, for one. But then the feelings have been aired, and we can address the problem, whether it is that we need to keep the shovel somewhere else, or I need to remember to rinse the dishes when I put them in the sink (B/c hubby washes the dishes, I cook, but it is helpful to rinse, not just piling things for him to find) or whatever. And quite frankly, if I told him he was only mad because he wasnt getting enough not only would it insult him, like pconsidine pointed out, but it would invalidate his feelings and thoughts. And why would I want to have sex with a man I just tore down. Trust me, the sex is better when we have built each other up. And if you have such a low opinion of your man, or men in general, whyd you get married. I like my man, I like men, and unlike those femi-nazis, I like being a woman, and that there are differences between men and women. But the key is to respect each other, not bash or tear each other down.

Unique
10-20-2005, 02:06 AM
Sass -

I was warning Vanessa about the folks out there who appear to be 'normal' and I'm not saying this as a joke (I know I joke a lot, but I'm not joking now)

Narcissic sociopaths seem like lovely people until you marry them. When the wedding bell has rung, the 'prince' costume comes off and the creature emerges.

And the outlaws? I mean inlaws - think malevolent 'Hee Haw' (in my case) they seemed like rather ordinary folks until . . . .

I don't know who she has in mind (if anyone) but just because it looks like jello, doesn't mean it isn't aspic.

eldragon
10-20-2005, 02:26 AM
And quite frankly, if I told him he was only mad because he wasnt getting enough not only would it insult him, like pconsidine pointed out, but it would invalidate his feelings and thoughts. And why would I want to have sex with a man I just tore down.

I don't actually tell him that ...........I just try to put it in perspective. It's not always about sex .........especially now. He is putting in 14 or more hours a day working this new job, stuck in a car with a racist womanizer who smokes, spits, and calls out to every woman he sees on the street. That's in between the guys constant cell phone calls to his wife, during which they fight, make-up, fight, makeup, infinity. My husband sits in this guys truck and listens to all of this. The guy also throws garbage out of the truck window.

So, my husband is stressed about losing his 18 year position with a casino, which also includes our insurance. (katrina.) And, we bought this 114 year old house that needs some work, something we were looking forward to do .......but can't because :

A: My husband is never home
&
B: Nobody is available to hire to do the work.



Or, maybe I just married a grump.

StoryG27
10-20-2005, 02:43 AM
And the outlaws? I mean inlaws - think malevolent 'Hee Haw' (in my case) they seemed like rather ordinary folks until . . . .

Yes indeed, until...

We'll have been married ten years in December (yeah, I was young, 16 when we were in engaged, barely 17 when we got married...and before you ask...no, I wasn't pregnant...just madly in love...still am) anyway, his parents are just now starting to get used to me.

I don't get it. My family adores him! Yeah, sure, my family is insane, no really, I have their certificates, but they're the type that are up front and open. If they like you, they'll show it. If they don't...they'll show it.

I thought my hubby's parents liked me. They were so nice to me. One day (we'd been married almost 6 years at the time) I was chatting with his mom on the phone. She was sweet and nice, as usual, then I hand the phone over to him. Now he ALWAYS left the room to talk to his parents. I just thought that was his thing, wanting privacy or something. But this time he went outside, so I went out a few minutes later to have a smoke and I heard him saying, "Why do you call me just to insult my wife? I'm sick of it. I love you, I do, but don't bother to call me anymore if all you're going to do is tear her down."
I was crushed. Apparently, it was a confrence call, his dad and mom were both talking to him on the speaker phone. My hubby has four sisters, who I adored, and I soon found out his parents spoke badly about me to all of them too! After my hubby hung up, I ripped the phone from his hand and called his parents back, all while he begged me to just leave it alone, saying that's how his parents were. They didn't like confrontation and they tended to talk behind people's back, even people they liked. I did NOT care. I called them back, crying by this point...though it was because now I was so made. I told them that I believe any problem could be worked out and if they have a problem with me, say it to my face. They shut down. 'Oh no, we love you. We don't have a problem with you.'
Oh boy, I got angry then. The next time we went out to visit them, I cornered them both and made them talk to me, they couldn't simply hang up on me when I was sitting in their living room.
Anyway, they REALLY didn't like me for a while, now they are getting used to me. Maybe they like, maybe they still talk behind my back, but they don't say it to hubby, and I've done all I can to open up lines of communication with them.
The funny things is, when we first got married, I thought HIS family was the normal, healthy one, and mine was the dysfunctional one...Moral of the very long story. No family is 'normal', so don't just scratch the surface, dig deep, and know who you are getting involved with.

Vanessa
10-20-2005, 03:15 AM
Wow!!! I'm just getting in from work, I've read all of your posts. You all have left some real, good, funny, strong points, great advice, and interesting things to think about.

A friend and I were talking earlier, and the subject came up. I would like to be married, but not sure if it will happen. It has been hard finding the right one. Some may ask what is the right one. He just needs to know how to treat a lady... all the elements of treating a lady with respect.

I do have friends, but just that. I've never been a promiscious type, however, companionship of Mr. Right would be perfect. Many of my friends have been physically and mentally beaten by theirr husbands. Some have gone through long drawn out divorces. This is a scary scenerio to me.

I've dated very few nice guys that turned ugly because of my travels. Jealousy and distrust played the major role. And it's not because I gave them any reason, it's just that they can't handle it, although I can be accessible most times.

My mom says don't do it. She feels that I've begun my career, and enjoying life. She thinks that it'll slow me down. She does agree with a Mr. Right in my life. But not to rush anything, and definitely take lots and lots of time to get to know him, and he me.

paprikapink
10-20-2005, 03:18 AM
Of course, you've heard the trouble with Mr. Right. Usually his first name is Always.

Vanessa
10-20-2005, 03:44 AM
Of course, you've heard the trouble with Mr. Right. Usually his first name is Always.

Oh yeah.

And maybe Mr. Right is really not all Mr. Right. Maybe such a thing doesn't exist. I agree that perhaps I need to make some compromises. But how much should I compromise? How much should he compromise? Maybe I shouldn't use the term Mr. Right, perhaps I'm looking for my hubby to be a "good man.":)

ChunkyC
10-20-2005, 04:25 AM
My first wife was the princess who turned into a psychopath the moment I slipped the ring on her finger. Can you imagine getting screamed at for daring to speak to an agent about getting life insurance on me so there'd be some money for her and our daughter in the event I died? Funny thing there is that I like her Dad and brother a lot even though I don't ever want to be within a hundred miles of her again as long as I live. I've been divorced from her for over 25 years and I still feel the pain of the year we spent as husband and wife.

My current wife and I have been together for eighteen years, married for thirteen. She's my best friend, the person I want to be around more than any other person on the planet, even when I don't want to be around her, if you know what I mean. Somehow I just knew she was the one, but I don't know if I would have been able to recognize that if I hadn't gone through what I did in my first marriage.

Shwebb
10-20-2005, 04:50 AM
My current wife and I have been together for eighteen years, married for thirteen. She's my best friend, the person I want to be around more than any other person on the planet, even when I don't want to be around her, if you know what I mean. Somehow I just knew she was the one, but I don't know if I would have been able to recognize that if I hadn't gone through what I did in my first marriage. I agree, Charlie. I went through a horrendous 2.5 years with a man who was great to me until, actually, right before the wedding. (I'd thought his changing was due to pre-wedding stress.) Found out later he'd been cheating on me right after we got engaged! But I was so young and inexperienced.

After that marriage ended (in which I realized I would rather stay single the rest of my life than to be married to the Creature), I met my current husband. It was "like at first sight," on both sides. I've been the only person with whom he has been seriously involved; girls in his high school saw him as a friend only. He is such a beautiful person; sensitive, romantic, caring, smart--why no one could see that then, I don't know. I think that some women can't handle a good guy--they want the emotional conflict or something. My mother, in particular, has never been attracted to a nice guy. She finds them boring. (My dad was the only decent guy she was attracted to, and she divorced him!)

But my husband isn't boring at all. What delights me about him is that he is open to new ideas, and he opens his mind to me, too. I've experienced things I never thought I would, thanks to him. Sure, we get angry and annoyed with each other at times. But we talk about it. We love each other too much to let things get between us. And like Charlie, we never call each other names or get mean. It's just not worth it.

Good luck, Vanessa. If you find the right guy, he's not going to mind your traveling. And if I see any good guys, I'll send 'em your way. :)

poetinahat
10-20-2005, 04:54 AM
I can invite you to my house for a dose of "marital reality."
...

These generalizations are WAY out of line. I'm sorry for you, but don't presume to speak for all of us.

What is important is making the right decision in the first place. One has no idea how much, or how, marriage will change both people over time.

When I was young, I asked my parents how they knew that each other was The One -- and that getting married was the right thing to do. Independently, they each said, "I can't tell you that. You just know."

I asked other married friends the same question. Every time, I got the same answer. They're all still married, and genuinely happy.

On the other hand, my friends who have been divorced invariably said something like, "It seemed like the right thing to do"; one even said, "We might as well".

All were right.

I had my epiphany -- I knew when it was right, and She did too. No questions, no doubts. And it's not all the way I pictured it. Sorry if you got a dud, but that doesn't mean we all did.

Come to my house, and I'll show you quite another vision of marital reality. And you can even ask my wife about it when I'm not around.

Unique
10-20-2005, 05:01 AM
Those of you who have married wonderful spouses are truly blessed. Even if you don't like that word - it's the truth.

Most people long for a mate. The one other person that you can share everything with; the person you can stand back to back with against all comers.

It's the finding that's the hard part. Even when you think you have - well, a good liar believes their own lies. How much easier is it then, to convince someone who doesn't lie and doesn't expect others to lie?

Story, I even told my 'creature': 'I used to think my family was dysfunctional til I met yours.' Sad thing is - he agreed.

It's far, far better to be lonely alone than lonely when you're with someone.

reph
10-20-2005, 05:02 AM
Remember that the only real reason a man is angry is because he isn't getting enough sex.
If anyone said the same thing about women, I'd be offended. It's an intrusive and dismissive thing to say about men. I hope you're not serious.

poetinahat
10-20-2005, 05:30 AM
And maybe Mr. Right is really not all Mr. Right. Maybe such a thing doesn't exist. I agree that perhaps I need to make some compromises. But how much should I compromise? How much should he compromise? Maybe I shouldn't use the term Mr. Right, perhaps I'm looking for my hubby to be a "good man.":)
Vanessa: you are a CATCH. There is one very lucky guy out there somewhere. He may not be on your radar today, but he's there.

And lowering your standards won't improve your odds, and it won't get you what you want/need/deserve.

The tricky bit isn't finding someone who ticks all the boxes; it's finding someone who ticks the right boxes. Only you know which of those boxes are important, and most of the time you only discover after some time which are the really important ones. This person loves you -- right now, exactly as you are, no matter what. And you do the same for him.

Cabinscribe
10-20-2005, 05:33 AM
Hi Vanessa!

All I can add is to advise you not to get married to someone just because you want to be married.

That's a little vague, I know (I'm tired tonight), but I have known so many people that get married because they think they should settle down, they feel lonely, family/friends are pressuring them, biological clocks are ticking, etc., and things never seem to work out.

In my observations, people who get married for these reasons also seem to lack any powers of discernment; they are so determined to get married that they overlook some glaring signs that the potential spouse is abusive, incompatible with them, or dangerous.

I am a little different, I think, than most women, because I never really had a strong desire to find a husband.

There are a lot of strange people out there. I hear this from both men and women. I used to say that I was going to go right to the psychiatric center to meet my next boyfriend; I figured it would save him the trip into the city to meet me, and I might be apprised of his diagnosis right from the start, instead of having to figure it out for myself!

Anyway, at the age of 42, I got married! Like Poetinhat said, "you just know"!
I wasn't even looking, and there he was!

Even though we both knew that "this was something really different" when we met, it wasn't as though I had my head in the clouds. I had a lot of battle scars already, so I'm as skeptical as they come. In fact, when we decided to get married, I was more concerned with tax implications than wedding plans, so, like I said, I'm probably different than most women!

After all this rambling, I just would advise you that if you do want to be married, get out there and meet people, and be open to relationships, but never get into a relationship because you feel desperate or lonely.

P.S. We've been together 12 years, and just celebrated our 3rd anniversary, and we're still happy!

Gehanna
10-20-2005, 05:45 AM
I am sooo glad that my husband and I don't fight like we used to. We've been married since 1990 and it took us 10 of those years to get used to each other.

I no longer throw a fit when he comes in from mowing the lawn..tracking grass clippings all through the house. He no longer throws a fit when I leave cheese wrappers lying on the kitchen counter.

We finally figured out that's what makes us soo perfect for each other. I vacuum up his grass clippings and he throws away my cheese wrappers. It's all good.

Sincerely,
Gehanna

unthoughtknown
10-20-2005, 06:08 AM
The only advice I have for you at this point in time is:

the more self-aware that you are, the more rewarding your partnership/marriage will be.

Vanessa
10-20-2005, 06:22 AM
Good luck, Vanessa. If you find the right guy, he's not going to mind your traveling. And if I see any good guys, I'll send 'em your way. :)
Awww this is too sweet.




My current wife and I have been together for eighteen years, married for thirteen. She's my best friend, the person I want to be around more than any other person on the planet, even when I don't want to be around her, if you know what I mean. Somehow I just knew she was the one, but I don't know if I would have been able to recognize that if I hadn't gone through what I did in my first marriage.

This is commendable. :)




Vanessa: you are a CATCH. There is one very lucky guy out there somewhere. He may not be on your radar today, but he's there.

And lowering your standards won't improve your odds, and it won't get you what you want/need/deserve.

The tricky bit isn't finding someone who ticks all the boxes; it's finding someone who ticks the right boxes. Only you know which of those boxes are important, and most of the time you only discover after some time which are the really important ones. This person loves you -- right now, exactly as you are, no matter what. And you do the same for him.
Awww thank you Poet. You are such a gentleman. great advice.



The only advice I have for you at this point in time is:

the more self-aware that you are, the more rewarding your partnership/marriage will be. Good point. And I believe this.

watcher
10-20-2005, 06:29 AM
Okay, I think I got it... Wanted a husband's salary, right away!

maestrowork
10-20-2005, 09:48 AM
When I was young, I asked my parents how they knew that each other was The One -- and that getting married was the right thing to do. Independently, they each said, "I can't tell you that. You just know."


Yup. Some people ask me why I'm not married or don't "plan" on getting married soon, and I just shrug and say, "I haven't found 'the one' yet." And they say, "You're too picky." Maybe I am. Maybe I'm not. But I'm NOT going to get married just because it's the "thing to do." Like someone said, having a wrong spouse is worse than having no spouse at all. In my culture, sometimes marriage is more of an "arrangement" (financial, social, etc.) than about connection and love and all that. I think marriage is indeed more than just love -- it's about "living" with someone else who is not your blood family. making a family, growing old together, companionship, etc. Do I believe there's the "one" out there for me? Definitely. Have I found her? No. Am I desperately looking? No. Some people might say, "Man, you're missing out on the wonderfulness of marriage." I say, "Good for you if you have a wonderful, fulfilling marriage with 'the one' but it doesn't work with everybody." I'm not naive to think that marriage doesn't require work, but I also believe that you're trying too hard to make something work, then something is not right. I'm perfectly happy by myself until I find the one. How do I know? I think I'll just know. But until then, I'm not going to get married just because it's "the thing to do."

poetinahat
10-20-2005, 10:04 AM
Ray,

Women everywhere will weep and rend garments the day you marry... and you won't be able to do anything about it! (Good thing is, there's something else you'll want much, much more.)

Lantern Jack
10-20-2005, 10:33 AM
Y'all should marry me. I could be your little Mormon mascot. We can work out a schedule: Vanessa gets me on Januaries and Marches, Rhymegirl can have me Februaries and Aprils (plus a day in May and June, since February's so short; stupid Gregorians...)

I always thought I'd make myself a good husband. Honestly, the biggest thing I look for in a marriage: the comfort and security and warmth of having another person sharing my big, ole, spacious, king-sizer. Theoretically, an electric blanket with an anti-short plug would be my ideal mate, but I also enjoy reading poetry, long beach walks and being adorable. Seriously, I really do like all those things. Especially the last thing. I'm like a big, ole, plush slug. Ladies just want to squeeze me till I pop!

Of course, the intrinsic danger of marrying someone as sleek and diminutive as me: passersby assume you're a lesbian couple.

samgail
10-20-2005, 12:20 PM
.
Remember that the only real reason a man is angry is because he isn't getting enough sex.







Not to be trite but the mars and Venus thing actually is pretty true. Pick up a copy if you find one and randomly open and read. I swear by the-let him go to his cave theory. I am not saying it is for everyone it just helps sometimes to know that you are not the only one who struggles with some of this crap.
My man used to have a very stressful job and worked a lot of long crazy hours. When he got home we gave him a little space (sometimes a lot depending on how loud the roaring from the cave was) Everybody needs some kind of outlet to vent all that pent up frustration, Having to be polite, accommodating and professional in the face of blatant disrespect is unfortunately a common and dangerous stress to the American workforce. There are varying levels and sometimes it gets to you. All the red lights you hit on the way home just add to the days frustrations. Throw in thinking you have to fix everything and how impossible that seems, a natural disaster, the feelings of inadequacy for not being able to help at home when needed and I might be grumpy about not being able to find my shovel too.

Everyone has a different way of dealing with all of this and figuring out some other way than kicking the dog or getting laid, to let out a little of that stress is not an easy thing to do. (I mean that figuratively-no animals were harmed in the writing of this post)
Some people read or write-even if it is in the bathroom while changing clothes after work- some watch sports, play adult league hockey or watch fox news. My husband takes care of the lawn, He can go outside and work on it and I see his shoulders drop and the corners of his mouth turn up a little. It makes me so happy when he is out there. He becomes Dad, at home with the fam, nobody needs impressed, there is no corporate bull crap. If you can figure out a way to facilitate this you can take the worried = mad out of the family dynamic.

I am not trying to be Suzy homemaker, but in any marriage there is going to be some give and take. If you do a little research, you can find out a few of the things that make him step back and chill out a little bit. Feel free to let him in on a few of the things that he can do to really help you out. This process might get you some grumbling but then you look outside and the thick beautiful green grass reminds you that it is going to be ok.
Sam

Vanessa-13 year olds armed with checkbooks, that is what husbands are- I like you and I think you will make a great wife so I thought you should be warned if the secret sect of wives find out I am telling you this they will have to kill me. I better go

They are coming for me.......

Sam

aruna
10-20-2005, 02:10 PM
I married the wrong man for the wrong reasons - twice!

The first time I married it was because I thought I'd never get married. I was 23. He was 33, and not serious about it. Thought of himself as an eternal bachelor, and continued to play that game. Never had anything but girls on his mind, the younger and prettier, the better. I wasnted children, he didn't, and I left him when I was stil young enough.

The second time it was because as far as children were concerned, it was now or never. I was 34. I got pregnant. SHould have left it at that, but he really loved me. He was married; the marriage was already on the rocks, had been for years. He wanted me to wait for him till his kids were grown up, so I did. Five years. Then he told his family and all hell broke loose. His parents hated me without ever meeting me, and never even met our two children until much later. Never acknowledged them as their grandchildren, which hurt them no end,because their other grandparents, my parents, lived far away in South America. His parents cut him out of their will - he is an only child and there was a lot to inherit - leaving everything to the children from his first marriage.

We've been together 21 years, including the first five years apart. Will always be together, even though at present we live in two different countries. Even if we've been apart for weeks, and some movie star would come to his home and strip naked, he wouldn't want her. He's utterly devoted to me. But we are so totally, totally unsuited and it's very, very hard. He doesn't share any of my interests. He hasn't even read any of my books. He doesn't even speak English. He doesn't like travelling, and nothing I like better. He likes to stay in one place, and that's Germany, and I hate Germany. He worries all the time, I trust that things always work out for the best, somehow. When he retires he'd like to live somewhere in South Germany, I long for somewhere tropical, India or the Caribbean. When we talk, all he talks about is tax and sickness. He doesn't read books... oh, I could go on forever. He's also recently been diagnosed with Parkinson's disease, so the next years are going tobe difficult. But what I learned is that love transcends all of that; so I guess youcould say he taught me to love "in spite of".

To be truthful, I always believed in a Mr Right, A soul mate, who would know me better than I know myself. I envy you who have found him. I wish I'd waited.

So, Vanessa, take your time and choose carefully; it's worth it.

Ken Schneider
10-20-2005, 02:19 PM
Want mine????


Yeah Van, take Aruna's, so she and I don't have to keep sneakin' roun'.

KTC
10-20-2005, 02:23 PM
Can't you just bid for one on e-bay, Van. If Ellen can find the perfect smiley face potato chip, I'm sure you can find a hubby. (The chip is probably more intelligent than one of us anyway...seems like it talks more anyway.)

Who was it that said, "...you takes your chances..." (Just bid already!)

aruna
10-20-2005, 02:23 PM
Yeah Van, take Aruna's, so she and I don't have to keep sneakin' roun'.

sssssssh!:Ssh:

JohnJStephens
10-20-2005, 02:35 PM
I married the wrong man for the wrong reasons - twice! That is some post, Sharon.

Compared to you, I simply got lucky, first time round. I am not easy to live with, and my faults are far too numerous to mention. I am also away a lot, and sometimes have to leave at very short notice, weekdays and weekends. But in terms of wife and children, I could not have hoped for anything better.

But my wife has got hold of a copy of this Venus and Mars book, and is enchanted. She is insisting that I read it, and I know that I will not be able to hold out much longer. I hope it will be worthwhile.

aruna
10-20-2005, 03:01 PM
. In my culture, sometimes marriage is more of an "arrangement" (financial, social, etc.) than about connection and love and all that. I think marriage is indeed more than just love -- it's about "living" with someone else who is not your blood family. making a family, growing old together, companionship, etc. Do I believe there's the "one" out there for me? Definitely.

Ray, living in an Eastern culture taught me a lot about marriage, and changed my views on it. I met so many older couples in India who had such a bond they simply radiated closeness. Yet if you enquires, they'd tell you it was an arranged marriage. At first the very concept of arranged marriage used to horrify me; not anymore.
It's not that they don't love; it's that they decided, long before they marry, that they are going to love their partner no matter what (as long as the partner is basically not cruel or depraved or whatever) It's not a romantic love; but it's love nevertheless. An Indian wife once told me: "For you, the first years are easy becuase you are in love and besotted with each other, but then the love wears off and you grow tired of each other. For us, the first years are hard becuase we have to learn to love each other, and after that it's easy."

Once I spoke to two unmarried girls in a train in India. They were well educated and from prosperous familes. They told me that their parents would be choosing their husbands; they'd get to see a photo in advance, an dmaybe meet himn once or twice. They trusted their parents to find someone suitable. Whoever it was, they'd love him; and I had no doubt that they'd have happy marriages.

A third anecdote: A friend of mine, a Frenchwoman, was pushing 40 and still unmarried, unhappily so. An Indian friend of mine, a man, asked me, why doesn't she ask her parents to find someone? He asked it with such innocence, and such ignorance off Western ways it was touching; he truly believed that that was the best route, and was perplexed at why her parents had neglected her needs. And I thought, in a way they do have it easier over there.

I think some of that has passed on to my son. He's 20 now and quite eager to get married. He's finding it difficult to find girls who are into long term relationships; he complains that these days girls are very flighty and only want to have fun. That's his experience. He's very picky as far as looks are concerned, but if I were to bring along a beautiful girl prepared to love him forever he would marry her tomorrow. I'm not saying that's the right thing to do, but he loves easily, and then with his whole heart. Which has caused much pain in the past...

Carole
10-20-2005, 04:19 PM
My wife says that she will pay you to take me.

Brady
Actually, Brady, at this particular moment, I'll bet your wife and I could hook Vanessa up with a 2 for 1 deal! ~laughing~

maestrowork
10-20-2005, 04:33 PM
Sharon, I certainly agree with you in many ways. But don't forget the culturals values are different, too. I believe. Some eastern cultures simply do not put "romance" too high on the list. They learn to "love" and live with each other because to them, having a family and keeping it together are FAR more important than finding Mr. or Ms. Right. That's also why divorce rate in Asia is so considerably lower than in the "modern" western worlds. Reminds me of Pride and Prejudice, too -- when arranged marriage was also a viable solution in old western worlds, and when a woman defied that system, she was considred "ahead of her times."

Certainly, I think arranged marriages ground people. An Indian friend of mine, looking for love at all the wrong places in the US, finally went back to India at the age of 25 and got married to a guy she'd never met before. Lucky for her, the guy seemed like very genuine, loving, responsible person and according to her, "cute as a button." Apparently, her/their families have gone through the whole screening process to find their children the "perfect match in heaven." Now she thinks the whole western way of finding a "soulmate" is such waste of time and most people let their emotions (the feeling of FALLING IN LOVE) blind them so. Certainly this happened to an ex of mine. She fell in love so easily, and so many times... always falling for the wrong person (including me!) And she's still doing it, getting her heart broken again and again, but she just doesn't understand. She believes she really must "love" that person before she can even consider marriage. So one year passed -- it was heaven. Then the second year came -- troubles... then the third year -- nasty breakup...

That said, do I believe in arranged marriage? I don't know. I think it's so medieval. I think there are merits to it, especially in the case when your family did all the screening already and make sure everything is a perfect fit, and they do it out of the pure love of trying to find you happiness... I think that kind of arranged marriage might actually yield good results. But not the kind of arranged marriage out of financial or social reasons. I have seen diasters with those before.

A Chinese friend of mine also, after years of being lonely in the US, finally went back to China and came back with a MOST BEAUTIFUL wife after only a month. Arranged marriage. Works for him (at least I think it does).

My parents did it the western way, and lucky for them, they found their "ones" easily. They fell deeply in love and they've been in love ever since. They fight incessantly on a daily basis. When I was a kid I used to think they hated each other and perhaps that had something to do with my fear of conflicts and confrontations. However, now that I'm older, I realize they truly, really love each other and the fighting is really good for them -- nothing is bottled up. They are completely honest with each other and they trust their lives on each other's hands.

I still believe in falling in love, finding that special one, and as Poetinthehat said, that's the most natural thing to do and you just know it.

Carole
10-20-2005, 04:51 PM
Not to be trite but the mars and Venus thing actually is pretty true. Pick up a copy if you find one and randomly open and read. I swear by the-let him go to his cave theory. I am not saying it is for everyone it just helps sometimes to know that you are not the only one who struggles with some of this crap.
I have never read the book, but that is just the dynamics of my relationship with hubby he treats me like I am female and I treat him like he is male. We both know eachother is different and respect those differences. Of course it isn't always perfect. Thing is, we know how to get it back to perfect.



My man used to have a very stressful job and worked a lot of long crazy hours. When he got home we gave him a little space (sometimes a lot depending on how loud the roaring from the cave was) Everybody needs some kind of outlet to vent all that pent up frustration
Again, I agree. With hubby, it is his guitar. I can see the week melting off him on Friday afternoon when he picks up his guitar. That's his outlet.




kicking the dog
heehee. No one loves their pets more than hubby and me, I think. When he says he's gonna go "kick the dog", that is his way of saying he is going to go play with her or take her for a walk.


If you can figure out a way to facilitate this you can take the worried = mad out of the family dynamic.
That is key, I think. Finding out...caring enought to TRY to find out what buttons need to be pushed and what buttons say "DANGER" and knowing that those buttons are gonna be different for you than they are for him.



Vanessa-13 year olds armed with checkbooks, that is what husbands are-
Yours has made it all the way to 13? Holy cripes! Mine has been stuck at his 4th birthday since I met him!

JennaGlatzer
10-20-2005, 04:57 PM
When I was young, I asked my parents how they knew that each other was The One -- and that getting married was the right thing to do. Independently, they each said, "I can't tell you that. You just know."

God, your post is SO well-said.

I asked those same questions, repeatedly, of my parents and friends. I thought I was defective. I dated some wonderful men. Really-- my high school sweetheart is one of the nicest people in the world (and still single-- wanna move to NY, Vanessa?). But I never felt like I was "in love." I couldn't figure out why. I thought it was me, that I was hopelessly cold inside or something. Nothing wrong with these guys, but I didn't want to marry any of them. And I felt miserably guilty about that. Most of my relationships ended the same way-- the guy started talking marriage and I realized I had to break up with him because it wasn't fair to him to keep dating when I knew he wasn't The One.

The day I met Anthony, he felt like family. That night, I called my sister and told her, "This is the man I'm going to marry." I knew. It was that fast. And it was just what everyone described-- I just knew.

We argue sometimes. He's not perfect and neither am I. We're incompatible in several ways. (His favorite thing in the world is fishing, and I get seasick. He can't write a grammatically correct sentence. I'm Oscar, he's Felix. He likes jazz and funk music-- which I hate. He's allergic to cats; I want ten more of them.) But he is my family. He is my home. Nobody understands me like he does. On my first anniversary, I went to a wedding message board that I used to visit when I was planning our wedding, and I just popped in to post that I wished everyone the same kind of marriage I have.

Which is what I wish for you, too, Vanessa. Poet's right-- you're a real catch. You're a sweetheart, and I'm sure the right guy is going to love the heck out of you. I hope you find him (or he finds you) soon! :)

Unique
10-20-2005, 04:58 PM
Ray & Sharon - (and others)

Arranged marriages don't seem as distasteful to me as they did when I was younger. But having your parents find you a good mate would assume that they 'knew' their children very well.

As old as I am, I shudder to think of who my mother would come up with for me. I remember 2 of my 'dates' that she particularly liked were....let's just say they had unsavory characteristics and leave it at that.

Do you suppose Western parents understand their children less than their Eastern counterparts, or do you think that doesn't have much to do with it at all? Generally speaking, of course -


****ETA- Felix & Oscar, Jenna! What a treat. I bet you two are a joy to be around and funny to boot!***

maestrowork
10-20-2005, 05:06 PM
My parents tried to fix me up a few years ago with * GASP * someone 10 years younger. What were they thinking? The girl was cute but totally wrong for me. I think my parents really don't know me that well. :)

I'll have to say I came close of finding "the one" a couple times but alas, they were all married at the time! The truth of the saying, "All the good ones are taken." Just my luck, I guess. And the ones who are available? Most of the time I don't connect with them...

p.s. I need a Felix for my inner Oscar!

eldragon
10-20-2005, 05:22 PM
You all are so serious.


Of course, it's a serious topic.

What I have read about arranged marriage, it really does seem to work better than allowing us to choose for ourselves.

Why not? We choose our partners based on chemistry and looks for the most part. Sure, some of you will say that you chose your partner because he was sensitive, a hard-worker, or ? But, if you weren't attracted physically to him in some way, it would be hard to be with him.

I once dated a multi-millionaire. For all intents and purposes, he should have been Mr. Right. He was divorced several years, in his late 30's, and very high energy. The only problem I could find was that I couldn't stand being near him. Why? Good question. I don't know how so many women marry for money. How do they do it? I found myself cringing at this man's touch. It wasn't fair to him. He was doing everything in his power to get me to love him. When I wasn't with him, or had left his house and was driving home, he would leave long messages on my answering machine, telling me how he was going to change my life. He was downright corny.

And obnoxious. Sundays were "football." He wanted to sit in his house, in front of the large screen TV with surround sound, with beer and food, and scream his guts out, while doing the wave at appropriated intervals.

Yuck. He was loud at everything he did. He had assumed the role of an urban cowboy ..............complete with boots. He was a manly man. Physical, touchy feely, rough around the edges. His house was filled with heavy, expensive furniture. He drove sports cars. You remember the Carly Simon song, "You're so Vain?" The part that goes. "I hear you went up to Saratoga, and your horse naturally won." ?

Once, that song came on the radio, and he said something like "That's what I like about being so rich ...........I've been to Saratoga!'

How ironic that he didn't get it.


Once, he wined and dined me at a gourmet room in a Vegas casino, with several out of town friends of his. At the end of the night, I told him I wanted to go home ............to my house. He was livid. How dare I? We had decided that we would meet for dinner, then I would go to his house for the night. And, I changed plans, just like that ..........without consulting him? He didn't yell like an angry man, but screamed like a whiny, spoiled child ...........in front of the valet guy who was trying to hand me my car keys, in front of his business friends. Geez. I went home alone, because I felt like it. The next morning, he was still upset about it. I had humiliated him.



I broke it off a short time later.
The man is rich and fairly famous, you can google his name and come up with all kinds of antics he's doing.
But, he wasn't for me.


My current husband, I knew for about 6 years before we got together. He's a hot tempered Yugoslav. But, he's hot or cold. We're going to Yugoslavia for Christmas, and I'll get to see how they all are.

eldragon
10-20-2005, 05:35 PM
Do you suppose Western parents understand their children less than their Eastern counterparts, or do you think that doesn't have much to do with it at all? Generally speaking, of course -


Arranged marriages are usually years in the making. In some cultures, the marriage is arranged when the girl is two years old. She won't meet the kid until they are 16 or older, but it's a done deal. It has to do with the history of how the familes interact, the financial situations of both families, and even "favor's owed and returned."

Some cultures allow the couple to see each other and make a quick decision about whether or not to continue, but most I have read about, do not.

I read some of Nick Cage's Greek stories, and his sister went back to their village in Greece, and basically advertised for a husband. She had lots of interested prospects .............many wanted to come to America. (This was in the 50;s, I think.) She chose a good one, based on both his family and how he looked and acted.

Having an arranged marriage sounds obscene, but you must remember that these marriages aren't severed. You have to make it work. You have to have children together. The only way to end some of them would be kill yourself. And, some wives do.

It's all fantastically interesting to me. I should also add that, having worked in Vegas for a decade, around hundreds of women, I can tell you that financially independant women don't stick around as long after any crap. I knew many women who had been divorced 5/6 times. It's comparable to movie stars. Look at Liz Taylor .............look at almost any modern day celebrity marriage. What could have happened to break up Nicholas Cage and Lisa Marie Presley, after a month? What about the Renee Zellweiger thing? These people didn't give marriage half a shot. Even some good Hollywood marriages go through tough times.


Every marriage goes through tough times. It all depends on how much you are willing to work it out, and what your options for leaving are.

brinkett
10-20-2005, 05:37 PM
My current husband...
That sounds like he might not be "current" at some point. ;)

Shwebb
10-20-2005, 05:40 PM
You know what I wish parents would do for their kids? I wish they would teach them what to look for and value in a person, and in themselves. If parents teach their children to value themselves, they won't put up with someone who doesn't value them, too. And if they teach the children values of character, the children will grow up knowing what they want in a mate.

Of course that didn't happen to me! It took a bad relationship to teach me those things. My mom, who'd pick a rogue out of a roomful of heroes, didn't like Larry because she "wasn't attracted to him!"

I tell ya, I get misty-eyed just thinking about the guy--and we've been married for 12 years. But I don't think it's a matter of "falling in love." I think it's more like "growing in love." To us, love is as much a decision as it is an emotion. I don't think it's healthy to live based on emotion alone, anyway--feelings are too flighty to be dependable. Today, I feel as if I could live more easily without my left hand (being a lefty) than live without my guy--not because I'm that dependent upon him, but because he's become that much a part of my heart and soul.

pconsidine
10-20-2005, 05:47 PM
But in a weird way, you do marry the family and even the close friends...Be sure to check out my upcoming* book So You Married Italian Sisters. Proof that you are more right than you could possibly know. :)

Seriously though, for all the joking I do about my wife and her sister (my other wife), if something happened and my marriage ended, I would miss that relationship terribly. Even my monster-in-law, who hated me for years until she realized that I wasn't going anywhere, has served a useful purpose in that she's got the same personality as my grandmother. Thanks to the experience of dealing with M-in-L, I can now deal with my grandmother much more easily than I ever could before.

It's all the cousins that can be a challenge now and then.

Edited to add: My wife will often introduce me as her "first husband." It's really funny watching people try to make sense of that one.



*Upcoming in the sense that I still have to write it, shop it around, and get it published.

brinkett
10-20-2005, 05:57 PM
Found out later he'd been cheating on me right after we got engaged!
A similar thing happened to one of my sisters. She dated a guy for seven years, and I think they got to the point where they were like, "Okay, where are we going with this? We should either break up or get married." They got married. WRONG! It lasted a whole year before it fell apart, and afterwards, she found out he'd been with another woman the night before the wedding.

aruna
10-20-2005, 06:22 PM
India, parents start looking for a husabnd for their daughter when she gets her first period. I attended such a ceremony; the girl was allowed to wear a sari for the first time, and sat on a chair of honour while the fathers of al th eeligible bachelors came to have a look at her and negotiate with her father. Unfortunately, in this case it was all about dowries, and as they were all of a poor social status it came down to one boy offering a watch and the other a nylon shirt.

Among educated and devout Hindus, it's different. There, the parents do try to find a "soul mate"; because in Hinduism marriage is all about the journey to God, and inding the partner who is truly a good match. Of course variables such as caste, status, job and skin colour (the lighter the better; "wheatish" is the preferred colour!) do factor in but if they are doing their duty properly they will find the mate that is given by God; and that's why their children accept it so unconditionaly. They believe that the mate is God's choice, through the parents.

I'd recommend the book A Suitable Boy to anyone intersted in the subject, but that's a bit long at 1500 pages! A light, chick-lit version is For Matrimonial Purposes, which though it's a bit silly really does bring across the attitude quite well. And of course there's the movie "Monsoon Wedding".

Some time ago I watched a TV progamme about Muslim arranged marriages.
The subject was a young Pakistani from London, who had asked his parents to find him a bride in Pakistan. He was about to go back to P to meet her for the first time, and marry her. He was cute. When asked about sex, he said he was a Muslim and so "he hadn't done that yet" and gave the camera a very shy grin. But, he said, he was reading a book about it his brother had given him.

At the wedding, they showed the bride. She looked terrified. She sat there completely stiff, never smiling; she looked as if she was about to go to the gallows, and everyone fussing around her. During the cremony she never even looked at her bridegroom; just sat there stiffly, unsmiling. You really had to feel sorry for her.

After the ceremony they drove off for their honeymoon.
They showed them on their honeymoon; they looked very happy, holding hands, and she was smiling.
He had to return to London and wrote her love letters every day, really soppy ones "to his darling wife".
Finally she came to London to join him. The last shot of them, she was wearing jeans, laughing and playing with him. Theyboth looked deliriously happy.

So, some arranged marriages dowork very well; it all depends. On the motives of the parents, the choice they make, the unconditional acceptance of both husband and wife of each other.

KTC
10-20-2005, 08:25 PM
As much as I'd like to contribute in a serious way to this discussion...I cannot. I met my wife when I was 16. We've been together ever since. I am now 39. I really don't know any other life. I didn't really go through the normal process of trying to figure out who and when and where. She was a part of me already before those decisions needed to be made. I've never once gone out on a date and wouldn't know what one was like?

pconsidine
10-20-2005, 08:50 PM
K,

I met my wife when she was 18 and had just graduated high school. So far, she hasn't gone to find out what she missed, but I do sometimes wonder if such a thing isn't too far off.

KTC
10-20-2005, 08:52 PM
K,

I met my wife when she was 18 and had just graduated high school. So far, she hasn't gone to find out what she missed, but I do sometimes wonder if such a thing isn't too far off.

I don't. We're going to be together until one of us dies.

MadScientistMatt
10-20-2005, 08:55 PM
Oh yeah.

And maybe Mr. Right is really not all Mr. Right. Maybe such a thing doesn't exist. I agree that perhaps I need to make some compromises. But how much should I compromise? How much should he compromise? Maybe I shouldn't use the term Mr. Right, perhaps I'm looking for my hubby to be a "good man.":)

That's a good question. I'm not sure it's possible to find someone who has everything you could possibly want in a spouse. But it's quite reasonable to hope to find someone who has every quality you need and no deal-breakers.

Before I met my fiancee, I really did sit down and write up a list of qualities I felt would be essential to find in a woman, and real deal-breakers. I don't still have the list, but some of the things that were on my list were that she would need to hold similar religious beliefs, be intelligent, and care about people. I seem to remember one of the deal-breakers being habitual lying.

Vanessa, it seems like you definitely have some qualities you're looking for that you should not compromise on. Obviously, a wife-beater is not acceptable, and you shouldn't settle for a man who is scared that when you take a trip you'll be cheating on him. A good man may miss you when you're away, but not accuse you of having a fling with a cabana boy on the beach of Aruba when you're really going to New Jersey. Any man who would do something like that, well, I really have to wonder where he'd get the idea that you were cheating? My guess would be he'd get the idea from what he or his friends do when they're traveling - not a good sign.

Finding the right person to share your life with always means picking someone with flaws - but you should never settle for any flaws that you can't tolerate.

aruna
10-20-2005, 08:57 PM
That's what my son is like, KTC. He'd be with his first girlfriend up to now if she hadn't broken up with him, I suspect. People tell him he's too young to know, but he just can't understand how people can stop loving each other.

ChunkyC
10-20-2005, 08:58 PM
This thread is making me want to go check out that show on TV -- Bridezilla, I think it's called.

Also, upthread we've mentioned getting married for the right reasons. Around the time Mrs. Chunky and I were getting hitched, a couple we knew were doing the same. The weddings couldn't have been more different.

Us: Married in our apartment. Mrs. Chunky made her own dress and she was drop-dead gorgeous in it. Had a small party afterward in a room above the hockey rink, maybe a dozen or so of our closest friends. We paid for food, the room was free since the rink itself got to run the bar and keep the money. Total cost for our wedding, including our rings: about $800.00

Them: Big church wedding. Bride's dress alone probably over cost twice as much as our whole wedding. Big reception at a local hotel in the ballroom. Total cost for their wedding: $15,000.00

Guess who split up after a year.

robeiae
10-20-2005, 09:02 PM
As much as I'd like to contribute in a serious way to this discussion...I cannot. I met my wife when I was 16. We've been together ever since.
I met my wife when she was 12. I was 39. We've been together ever since, too!!

Rob :)

StoryG27
10-20-2005, 09:07 PM
K,

I met my wife when she was 18 and had just graduated high school. So far, she hasn't gone to find out what she missed, but I do sometimes wonder if such a thing isn't too far off.
I met my hubby when I was 16, married him shortly after I turned 17. I don't feel I missed out on anything other than a heartbreaking string of one bad relationship after another. I feel very blessed that I didn't have to go through hellish times of searching for that someone, of thinking I found him, and of being proven wrong. My husband and I gave each other enough grief trying to figure how to take two distinct people and make one life, but we also shared a lot of love and a lot of laughs, even in the rocky times. It was difficult, but so worth it. I can't image ever putting that much effort into another relastionship. I was blessed enough to find him early in life, to find someone who would put up with me, and someone who I love spending time with. Honestly, we grew up together, not since childhood, but we got married as kids and had to turn into adults while dealing with marriage, real life, and then kids. I don't know who I would be without my hubby, who I would have turned into without him in my life, and I don't want to find out. Because what I do know is I wouldn't be half the person I am today if it wasn't for him.

robeiae
10-20-2005, 09:11 PM
I met my wife when she was 12. I was 39. We've been together ever since, too!!
Okay, don't want to freak anyone who is good at math. JOKE.

My wife is one year younger than me, though she has decided to stop aging as of now.

Rob :)

Shwebb
10-20-2005, 09:13 PM
Rob, I was beginning to wonder if your previous post was why you were living in exile! :)

aruna
10-20-2005, 09:21 PM
I met my hubby when I was 16, married him shortly after I turned 17. I don't feel I missed out on anything other than a heartbreaking string of one bad relationship after another. .

I envy you! It's th ekind of thing I would have wanted. I hate strings of relationships. Absolutely loathe them. I always wanted to find someone and that's it; since I was 16! I never believed the modern adage that you have to keep switching to find the right partner; I think every time you love someone and it goes wrong, that's another scar across your heart, another layer between you and love. I think I passed that on to my children, and they're going like that too. My daughter is only 15 but already she says she's waiting for the right one.

StoryG27
10-20-2005, 09:32 PM
I envy you! It's th ekind of thing I would have wanted. I hate strings of relationships. Absolutely loathe them. I always wanted to find someone and that's it; since I was 16!
It's never made sense to me why I got so lucky or blessed or whatever you want to call it. I wish it could happen for everyone, I really do.

My daughter is only 15 but already she says she's waiting for the right one.
When I was 15, I swore I would NEVER get married. A year later, I met him...

pconsidine
10-20-2005, 09:32 PM
I don't feel I missed out on anything other than a heartbreaking string of one bad relationship after another. I think that's what makes me wonder. I basically snatched her up right at the start of her swan phase (she will tell you she was a real ugly duckling, which is a total lie, but it's how she felt that's important) before she got the chance to take the show on the road, if you will. For a long time, I was sure we'd be together forever too, but when we hit a rough patch not too long ago, the thought started to occur to me and I've never been able to completely kick it back to wherever it came from.

It's one of those things - I know that if I'm not with her, I won't be with anyone, but she young and hot and won't stay single for long no matter what.

Such a mixed blessing, being the guy with the smoking hot wife. :)

StoryG27
10-20-2005, 09:59 PM
I think that's what makes me wonder. I basically snatched her up right at the start of her swan phase (she will tell you she was a real ugly duckling, which is a total lie, but it's how she felt that's important) before she got the chance to take the show on the road, if you will. For a long time, I was sure we'd be together forever too, but when we hit a rough patch not too long ago, the thought started to occur to me and I've never been able to completely kick it back to wherever it came from.

It's one of those things - I know that if I'm not with her, I won't be with anyone, but she young and hot and won't stay single for long no matter what.

Such a mixed blessing, being the guy with the smoking hot wife. :)
Our relationship was sooooo close to ending twice! I even filed the paperwork once, but my hubby never gave up on me, on us. He was always so closed up, never talked about his feelings, and all the sudden, he sprouted an emotional voice and really expressed how much he loved me...how much he wanted us to be together forever, which of course took me time to believe. More importantly, he talked to me about how scared he was, he expressed so much he'd always kept hidden. I had no faith in men, and I was sure no man could love me like he said, so I still was iffy. Poor guy, I put him through h*ll because of the other men I had in my life (not boyfriends, father, step fathers, and others). But eventually, I saw him for the man he was, not the shadowy version of other men.

Have you talked to your wife about your concerns? Does she know how completely in love with her you are?

Basically, you both have to decide divorce is NOT an option. Then see what can be done to make her feel better and to simultaneously strenghten the love you two share.

BTW, I my hubby would say I'm 'hot', but I don't believe him. I'm the ugly duckling who is still waiting to turn into a swan, but not in his eyes...in his eyes, I was born a swan, inside and out.

I really hope it works out for you. Don't give up. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk about it, or know some of the things that worked for us.

paprikapink
10-20-2005, 10:33 PM
I love all these sketches of marriages. It's like peeking in windows all over town. Here's a rather messy sketch of mine...

My husband is seven years younger than I am. I always planned to be a woman who aged gracefully and reveled in the increased wisdom and serenity that the years brought. Ha! Being the gal with the smoking hot husband is not serene! It's great, but it has its challenges. Typically what happens is once a month, my self-esteem plunges and suddenly he's so awful! He can't do anything right! Then I remember that I felt this way last month and it was really because I hated myself and "knew" he'd be turning his back on me at any moment so I was just beating him to it.

I did the whole "string of relationships" thing before we met and married. He did too. After three months of dating he still seemed wonderful -- that was a first for me. Within a year we got married. My friends and family liked him, but they were forcing their smiles at news of our marriage, if they weren't blatantly rolling their eyes. They'd seen me be so in love with and then so over so many guys in the past that they had no reason to expect this to be any different. About 70% of those same friends have since gotten divorced.

And my family was already divorced. My husband's too. In fact that was one of the great challenges we faced early on. Neither one of us had any model of an enduring relationship. One day during an especially unhappy argument I looked at him and said, "We're both expecting this to end because we've never known a relationship that turned out any other way." Just realizing that has helped a lot over the years.

You know how when you say "Oh, I just love this jacket," your kids'll say "Well, if you love it, why don't you marry it?" I always answer, "If it doesn't do housework, don't marry it." Not that housework or not is the deal-breaker (my husband probably shouldn'tve married me in that case). I really mean that just being in love is not enough. You've got to share values and goals. Even if just about everything else is different, those two fundamentals can take you a long way. And you're going to have to LIVE with this person (unless you are clever like Aruna) on a daily basis. You're going to be sharing your whole life. Make sure he's not just fun at tailgate parties and in bed.

We celebrated our 13th anniversary this week. We're just warmin' up. When the phone rings and I see his cell number on the caller ID, I still think "It's him!"

pconsidine
10-20-2005, 11:07 PM
BTW, I my hubby would say I'm 'hot', but I don't believe him. I'm the ugly duckling who is still waiting to turn into a swan, but not in his eyes...in his eyes, I was born a swan, inside and out.Good husbands have a peculiar variation on beer goggles that compares absolutely every woman on earth to the one they have at home. It's funny, because I compare every woman to my wife. They're all too blonde or too tall or too whatever she's not.

The best thing about having an art degree is that I can explain to my wife, in perfectly scientific terms, what it is about her that makes her so beautiful. Not that she'd believe me, but at least it sounds convincing.

BradyH1861
10-21-2005, 03:28 AM
I'll share "some" of my story.

I had just about given up on the chance of ever finding anyone, although I was still young. All of my relationships had ended badly. I was a mature 22 year old college graduate/firefighter. I had a lot of responsibility and the girls I dated tended to be the 21 year old party girl type, which turned me off. (I don't believe that girls are more mature than guys....sorry)

Anyway, my brother was home for the summer and working at this particular eating establishment. He told me there was a waitress there that he wanted me to meet. I found out later.....after we were married, in fact, that my then wife actually had a crush on my brother and that he introduced me to her as a way to escape her grasp! And no, I haven't forgiven him.......j/k.

So we dated for about a month before I moved in with her. Two months later she found out she was pregnant. We were married three months after that. We knew each other all of about six months (max) before we got married.

I can say this because I have said the same to her. I was not in love with her when we got married. Rather, I was doing the "honorable thing" for once in my life. However, I still remember the night that I realized that I was in love with her. It was about ten months after we got married.

Getting married and having a child that quickly would strain just about any relationship. The first year of our marriage, we not only had a child to raise, but we were also getting to know each other. It was hard, very hard.

You see, my wife is an alcoholic. She goes through cycles in which the drink controls her life, even now. Add to that the fact that she has been emotionally unhealthy since childhood (abuse issues), and you can see the ready made recipe for disaster.

I have not been the perfect husband. I went so far as to once seek comfort in the arms of another woman in order to find what I did not have at home. Needless to say, that was a mistake. I have walked out on my wife and she has walked out on me more times than I care to think about right now.

We will celebrate four years together in December. Things are better now, much better in fact than they were this time last year. Incidently, that is also right about the time I discovered AW. This forum provided a much needed escape from the every day nightmare that was my life at that time.

All I know is that I love my wife and she loves me. There are times, even now, when I wonder if that will be enough to see us through.

I hope so.

Brady

KTC
10-21-2005, 03:34 AM
Wow Brady. You inspire me. Your honesty blows me away. I wish nothing but the best for you and your wife. It's a shame that bad things happen to children...baggage they have to carry with them forever. Baggage they can't carry by themselves. Your wife is very lucky. And so are you. Thanks for sharing your story.

Vanessa
10-21-2005, 04:56 AM
I am not trying to be Suzy homemaker, but in any marriage there is going to be some give and take. If you do a little research, you can find out a few of the things that make him step back and chill out a little bit....

Vanessa-13 year olds armed with checkbooks, that is what husbands are- I like you and I think you will make a great wife so I thought you should be warned if the secret sect of wives find out I am telling you this they will have to kill me. I better go

They are coming for me.......

Sam

I understand the give and take, and sometimes I am afraid of that, because the question goes back to "give how much" and "take how much?"
I am a person who's willing to give wholeheartedly, but I don't want to open myself up for misuse. I can also love wholeheartedly, and I know that I haven't yet. I've dated guys that I care deeply for, but not marriage material, at least for me. I've been through the proposal thing from one guy that I dated for a couple of years. And I knew instantly, the answer was no.




The day I met Anthony, he felt like family. That night, I called my sister and told her, "This is the man I'm going to marry." I knew. It was that fast. And it was just what everyone described-- I just knew...

Which is what I wish for you, too, Vanessa. Poet's right-- you're a real catch. You're a sweetheart, and I'm sure the right guy is going to love the heck out of you. I hope you find him (or he finds you) soon! :)

"Felt like Family!" That's the key. That's the one phrase that makes sense to me. I have a few guy friends. You know the kind you kick it with. Not dating or bedding, just friends. And if our friendships had not grown to a certain level, I would consider them marriage material. For instance, one in particular, he and I talk about everything, we have a difference of opinions and not afraid to express them, and we are spur of the moment people. We're always up to spontaneous things. We argue and we trust each other. But we have never ever, even talked about crossing the line. It would obviously ruin everything between us. We are good for each other and to each other. Now if only I could find a hubby who has the same qualities. I want to feel the "you just know" feeling.

Thanks Jenna for the well wishes. You are too sweet.



Actually, Brady, at this particular moment, I'll bet your wife and I could hook Vanessa up with a 2 for 1 deal! ~laughing~
:D

Vanessa
10-21-2005, 05:07 AM
All I know is that I love my wife and she loves me. There are times, even now, when I wonder if that will be enough to see us through.

I hope so.

Brady

Brady this is an incredible story. And honestly, it seems that you both WORKED on keeping this marriage together. That's commendable. The part I love most about this story is.....I hope so. What a good attitude! I think that it's the love between you two that has kept you together this long.

And I believe that it is the love that will see you through.

reph
10-21-2005, 06:05 AM
"Felt like Family!" That's the key.
My husband and I decided to marry after dating for a week and a half. No, we didn't marry then, but quite a bit later. Early in the relationship, maybe not at a week and a half, but early, I felt as if he'd always been there. This feeling didn't correspond to reality, but it says something.

I don't believe that a person has a predestined partner. You pick the first one who meets your specs after you've become ready to pick at all.

poetinahat
10-21-2005, 06:18 AM
My husband and I decided to marry after dating for a week and a half. No, we didn't marry then, but quite a bit later. Early in the relationship, maybe not at a week and a half, but early, I felt as if he'd always been there. This feeling didn't correspond to reality, but it says something.
Volumes.


I don't believe that a person has a predestined partner. You pick the first one who meets your specs after you've become ready to pick at all.
During our pre-marriage program (it's an Anglican Church thing -- minister steps you through a checklist to make sure you're ready for marriage), I got in to an argument with the minister. One of the questions was "I believe that my partner is the only one for me." We both, separately, answered yes.

The minister told us that was an unrealistic view -- after all, what happens if one of us dies?

I gave him both barrels. For crying out loud, what sort of thing is that to say to a couple a few weeks out from the wedding? I was nearly 32 at the time, not 15!

My feeling was, she's the only one I want to marry, considering where we are right now. If we parted (by death or other tragic circumstances) then we'd be changed people, and the landscape would change. But that had NO bearing on the answer at the time.

It all smoothed over, but sticking up for us then was one of my better moments. Planning for the second marriage is NOT part of planning the first marriage. Even discussing it was abhorrent. If it's not, then it's time to walk away from it and have a good long think.

unthoughtknown
10-21-2005, 06:25 AM
For crying out loud, what sort of thing is that to say to a couple a few weeks out from the wedding? I was nearly 32 at the time, not 15!

I agree. That is the most ridiculous thing I have heard re marriage preparation.

reph
10-21-2005, 07:59 AM
One of the questions was "I believe that my partner is the only one for me."
It's ambiguous. Devotion to your partner requires a yes in one sense, but that doesn't mean you mightn't have found a different partner, or no partner, if your life had gone differently. What if you'd never happened to meet that person?

poetinahat
10-21-2005, 08:08 AM
It's ambiguous. Devotion to your partner requires a yes in one sense, but that doesn't mean you mightn't have found a different partner, or no partner, if your life had gone differently. What if you'd never happened to meet that person?
*shrug* What if I'd studied harder at college? What if I were six feet tall? What if cigarettes were good for you?

Never said anything about fate, destiny, or master plans.

Sarita
10-21-2005, 08:11 AM
I love reading all these stories. So beautiful, some beautifully heartbreaking.


The day I met Anthony, he felt like family. That night, I called my sister and told her, "This is the man I'm going to marry." I knew. It was that fast. And it was just what everyone described-- I just knew... I'm going to let you all read a little excerpt from my diary the day Dan and I met:


I finally met Dan. Huh. Being married wouldn't be such a bad thing. Ack! Did I just say that? I'm just praying that he'll get my number somewhere and call, because I was a dope and didn't give it to him. He's wonderful. It's as if someone told him everything I wanted in a boyfriend, how is it possible for one guy to be so right for me?
Then after 2 dates/2 weeks of talking:
I want to be near him forever. Do you know what he said to me tonight? "Do you think it's possible to fall in love with someone in just 2 weeks, because I think I'm setting a precedent." I felt like a real idiot because I was just sitting there thinking whether or not I'd ever felt happier. I came up blank. When my parents met Dan, I was living in Florida. They loved him. My mom actually called me and said this was the guy for me and I quote "If you don't marry this man, you're crazy..." or something like that. We'd only been dating for 3 months. I know I rarely talk about all the mushy love stuff when it comes to Dan, but there's nothing better than finding the right person to spend your life with. Nothing. You'll find him, Vanessa. :)

mkcbunny
10-21-2005, 09:12 AM
When my parents met Dan, I was living in Florida. They loved him. My mom actually called me and said this was the guy for me and I quote "If you don't marry this man, you're crazy..." or something like that. We'd only been dating for 3 months.
When I first met my husband's parents, we had been dating for a very short time, about a month perhaps. His mom had heard a lot about me, since my husband and I had been friends for about two years before dating. [Hadn't met his parents because we were at college, not in their town.] They were having trouble setting up their VCR and getting the cable to work. I reconnected the cables and programmed the VCR while his mom made dinner. Later, he told me that out in the kitchen, his dad had said, "She's a keeper." And apparently his mother said something like, "If you do anything to screw this up, I'll kill you."

He was not so lucky with my parents, but after 18 years, they're much better than they used to be.

unthoughtknown
10-21-2005, 09:16 AM
Later, he told me that out in the kitchen, his dad had said, "She's a keeper." And apparently his mother said something like, "If you do anything to screw this up, I'll kill you."


aww; that's so sweet

aruna
10-21-2005, 09:28 AM
Good husbands have a peculiar variation on beer goggles that compares absolutely every woman on earth to the one they have at home. It's funny, because I compare every woman to my wife. They're all too blonde or too tall or too whatever she's not.

The best thing about having an art degree is that I can explain to my wife, in perfectly scientific terms, what it is about her that makes her so beautiful. Not that she'd believe me, but at least it sounds convincing.

My husband is the same. We can watch a movie with some ravishing film star, and he'll say, she's ugly. He just thinks I am the most beautiful woman in the world and absoutely adores me, that's why I'll never, ever leave him, no matter how tempted (and I HAVE been tempted, believe me. Several times.)

So do as storygirl says. Let her know how you feel. That works magic on a woman's heart. To be truly, deeply loved is a rare thing.

Carole
10-21-2005, 03:01 PM
Good husbands have a peculiar variation on beer goggles that compares absolutely every woman on earth to the one they have at home. It's funny, because I compare every woman to my wife. They're all too blonde or too tall or too whatever she's not.


That is so strange. See, hubby's always told me, "There's everybody else in the world, and then there's you" He doesn't (at least not vocally) compare me to anybody. Being totally honest here, he treated me the same when we met until 5 years ago when I was 50 pounds fatter as he does today. The sex was no more or less often, the compliments were no more or less frequent, the unexpected butt pinch while I was doing dishes was no more or less often. That's just his thing. There's everybody else in the world and then there's me.

brinkett
10-21-2005, 03:23 PM
My husband and I decided to marry after dating for a week and a half.
My parents decided to marry after dating for two weeks. They married ten months later--they chose the date by throwing darts in a pub. They've been married for 43 years and counting.

Sarita
10-21-2005, 04:23 PM
He just thinks I am the most beautiful woman in the world and absoutely adores me, that's why I'll never, ever leave him, no matter how tempted (and I HAVE been tempted, believe me. Several times.)This is SO true. Nothing can take the place of years full of love. A smart woman remembers that when staring temptation in the face. Just this year, my husband took a leap. He quit his job of 5 years at a well established firm to take a job at a firm closer to home that paid just a little more, so that I could quit mine and go back to school. How could a passing glance or flirtatious friend take the place of that love, that sacrifice?

(Incidentally, after just 3 months, he got a promotion at the new place. He's making 40% more than his last job and has a solid long-haul contract with them.)

maestrowork
10-21-2005, 07:04 PM
It's interesting because I just read an article about the changing face of marriage in Japan (and the phenomenon is coming to the US as well)... that young people are in no hurry of getting married. As a matter of fact, a huge percentage of people (men and women) do not want to get married at all. Japanese women, now more independent than ever, do not want to get stuck in a male-dominant marriage and play housewives to their workaholic husbands. They're perfectly happy to hang out with their families and circle of female friends. Meanwhile, the men are perfectly happy being single and focus on their careers. They hang out mostly with their colleagues or sports buddies, go to Karaoke or bars or night clubs after hours (where they might also go to satisfy their sexual needs). The Japanese still date, but they're in no hurry of getting married at all. Interesting.

maestrowork
10-21-2005, 07:06 PM
People may have flings, or if their relationship really doesn't work, they may just separate. But temptation is just that, temptation. You can't replace something you've built for years overnight and start all over again.

Now, if your relationship really doesn't work and then you find your "soulmate" -- things just click and you just suddenly know "he/she is the one" -- what would you do?

pconsidine
10-21-2005, 07:52 PM
That is so strange. See, hubby's always told me, "There's everybody else in the world, and then there's you" He doesn't (at least not vocally) compare me to anybody. Being totally honest here, he treated me the same when we met until 5 years ago when I was 50 pounds fatter as he does today. The sex was no more or less often, the compliments were no more or less frequent, the unexpected butt pinch while I was doing dishes was no more or less often. That's just his thing. There's everybody else in the world and then there's me.I don't know whether this proves or disproves my case. I mean, you have to figure that if he's hanging out with the guys and one of them points out some "hot chick" across the room, that all he's thinking about is how she's like you and how she isn't. That's why the beer goggles analogy is so apt - he probably doesn't even realize he does it. It's just second nature.

For what it's worth, most guys will recognize that it's potentially disastrous to bring up other women around the missus. :)

Carole
10-21-2005, 08:19 PM
For what it's worth, most guys will recognize that it's potentially disastrous to bring up other women around the missus. :)
I WISH! Sheesh. Hubby has absolutely NO tact whatsoever. It's one of his not-so-charming little flaws. He watches every pretty girl that goes by, never stops for a second before blurting out what a hottie this chick or that chick on some movie is. He's the worst! ~laughing~ That's where the "there's everyone else and then there's you" thing came from. I used to get all bent out of shape about it. I don't any more.

See, what I have learned from him is that he is totally, sometimes brutally honest. If a girl is pretty, he's probably gonna say so. But he's totally honest about everything. And he chose me :)

pconsidine
10-21-2005, 08:33 PM
You're sure are a good sport. Speaking of which, I just remembered another thing -

My wife is a born flirt and she currently works in a sales department with a bunch of horny old men. They went out the other night and she was goofing around with one of the guys. She's trying to talk to him and she notices that he's craning his neck all around looking for something. She throws her hands up and says, "what are you looking for?" He grabs her left hand, points to her wedding ring, and says, "that. Won't your husband mind that we're goofing around like this?"

She got really insulted and told him that her marriage was her responsibility and not his, so he should just get over it. Besides, what the hell did he think was going to happen anway?

I totally agreed with her. It's no one else's job to keep her faithful to me and vice versa (not to say that I wouldn't gun down the SOB if she cheated on me but that's a guy thing). Thankfully, it's no effort to do it ourselves. :)

maestrowork
10-21-2005, 08:35 PM
Let's face it, guys like us are going to look, whether you like it or not. Some of us might even fantasize or think of doing something naughty. We certainly appreciate beauty and sexiness... I think women do, too. And guys, whether they admit it or not, are going to fantasize about having sex with other beautiful women. What separates the boys from the men is whether the men would choose to do something about it -- most devoted, responsible, loving, caring men who are totally in love with their wives would discard that lust as "natural but unnecessary." The boys would want their cake and eat it, too.

It comes down to insecurity or trust issue when people have problems with "looking but not touching." The sooner we all accept that fact (that guys look and talk about it) and move on, the more honest we become and the better the relationship would be.

paprikapink
10-21-2005, 09:07 PM
... He grabs her left hand, points to her wedding ring, and says, "that. Won't your husband mind that we're goofing around like this?"

She got really insulted and told him that her marriage was her responsibility and not his, so he should just get over it. Besides, what the hell did he think was going to happen anway?

I totally agreed with her. It's no one else's job to keep her faithful to me .... :)

I agree whole-heartedly that it's the married person's job to be responsible for their own fidelity. But I think the guy's question was a reasonable one. I'd translate his words to mean, roughly, "what are the boundaries here?" It's either operate on assumptions -- and we know how those are -- or stick your neck out and ask.

Carole
10-21-2005, 09:14 PM
Let's face it, guys like us are going to look, whether you like it or not. Some of us might even fantasize or think of doing something naughty. We certainly appreciate beauty and sexiness... I think women do, too. And guys, whether they admit it or not, are going to fantasize about having sex with other beautiful women. What separates the boys from the men is whether the men would choose to do something about it -- most devoted, responsible, loving, caring men who are totally in love with their wives would discard that lust as "natural but unnecessary." The boys would want their cake and eat it, too.

It comes down to insecurity or trust issue when people have problems with "looking but not touching." The sooner we all accept that fact (that guys look and talk about it) and move on, the more honest we become and the better the relationship would be.
That is SO spot on, Ray. When I met hubby, I was a total wreck from years of living with the ex-jerk. He really warped my perception of reality. Granted, hubby gives me a little too MUCH reality for my taste sometimes, but like I said. I married an honest man. (Yeah, I know ther are lurkers out there rolling their eyes. I am not naive and he is honest)

Facts seem to be that women and men are generally wired different, no matter HOW badly one may want to make the other think like they do. Most women I know don't get any big thrill out of seeing a naked man unless they are involved with him. Most women I know DO get a big thrill out of seeing a gorgeous~sexy guy who knows how to present himself.

Face it. Men like boobies! ~laughing~

maestrowork
10-21-2005, 09:15 PM
I agree whole-heartedly that it's the married person's job to be responsible for their own fidelity. But I think the guy's question was a reasonable one. I'd translate his words to mean, roughly, "what are the boundaries here?" It's either operate on assumptions -- and we know how those are -- or stick your neck out and ask.

Or simply assume that the woman is doing harmless flirting and she's married and you should keep your hands off and your dick in your pants no matter what!

Sheesh.

Even if the woman wants to have an affair (yeah, right, with you, Mr. Bald Man-Head with a gut?) doesn't mean you should just bang her. Have some dignity and restraint!

Before someone gets fired up and tell me to get off my high horse, let me just tell you my past is not totally innocent. I've been there, and I wasn't very happy about that episode. I'm not being a hypocrite here, just telling how I see things, especially given my experience.

Carole
10-21-2005, 09:19 PM
Don't sugar coat it, Ray. Tell us what you really think! *grin*

maestrowork
10-21-2005, 09:28 PM
;) Carole.

OK, I think any man who believes that they have a chance and should go ahead and bang a married woman if she presents herself should be castrated for the good of mankind. And if said man is married himself, he should be shot, multiple times, in both heads.

There, any better? :D

maestrowork
10-21-2005, 09:32 PM
In all seriousness, I don't think in black and white, but I do believe in personal responsibilites. Things do happen, but then you will have to deal with the consequences. Nothing comes for free. Does it mean I really believe in "thou shalt not...." Hardly. I am no saint. But I fully understand there's a price to be paid. And it's seldom worth it.

Carole
10-21-2005, 10:03 PM
A friend of mine once described what it was like to cheat on his girlfriend. He did it once and never again. This is his description:

"Oh yes..OH Yes...OH YEs...OH YES! YES! YESSSssssssss!......oh no....."

BradyH1861
10-21-2005, 10:25 PM
A friend of mine once described what it was like to cheat on his girlfriend. He did it once and never again. This is his description:

"Oh yes..OH Yes...OH YEs...OH YES! YES! YESSSssssssss!......oh no....."

That sort of reminds me of a gal I dated many years ago. She would become strangely religious in the bedroom.....

"Oh God! Oh God! Oh God!"

Okay, that is my deep thought for the day.

Brady

Shwebb
10-22-2005, 01:23 AM
I don't mind that my husband looks--okay, it isn't that he looks as though he's "looking for it," but sometimes people just walk by, and you notice. Funny thing is, I know what catches his eye and without looking at him I know when he's doing a double-take. I'm okay with him noticing, actually, and I joke about it with him. Personally, it's sort of a game with me, to see how in touch I am w/ what get men's hearts racing. And I'm usually right.

It isn't just about the body, of course; it's the mannerisms, the looks, the carriage of the body that usually make the difference.

Being that my husband has been only with me, I know that there have been times he's been curious about what it might be like w/ someone else. Not because he told me this--but because I know men in general, and him in particular. I told him that what it boils down to is that sex is really just sex. It's what you have built with the other person that really makes it special.

I've had friends who think that sex w/ the same man after 12 years must be monotonous--but it's anything but. As your trust and knowledge with each other build, it can only get better, as far as I'm concerned.

sassandgroove
10-22-2005, 01:35 AM
I don't actually tell him that ...........I just try to put it in perspective. It's not always about sex .........especially now. He is putting in 14 or more hours a day working this new job, stuck in a car with a racist womanizer who smokes, spits, and calls out to every woman he sees on the street. That's in between the guys constant cell phone calls to his wife, during which they fight, make-up, fight, makeup, infinity. My husband sits in this guys truck and listens to all of this. The guy also throws garbage out of the truck window.

So, my husband is stressed about losing his 18 year position with a casino, which also includes our insurance. (katrina.) And, we bought this 114 year old house that needs some work, something we were looking forward to do .......but can't because :


A: My husband is never home
&
B: Nobody is available to hire to do the work.


I don't want to down play what happened to you from Katrina (Like it or not I prayed for you when we didn't know if you were okay after Katrina.), but I think you missed the point. Rather than focusing on the situation, and letting that dictate your emotions, and then letting your emotions dictate everything else, why not let your logic and reason have their say. Focus on the marriage, on him and on you, not on the lousy situation. Make a decision to look on the bright side, and you will be surprised how many bright sides you will find. Make a decision to be happy when hubby comes home, and not only will he likely cheer up, you will too. Make a decision with your head and your heart will follow. Your marriage is bigger than needed house repairs, a lost job, or any given situation. Situations pass, a marriage shouldn't.




Or, maybe I just married a grump.


Maybe. Maybe you'll find he's not so grumpy if you stop acting defeated.

Acknowledge him, acknowledge his feelings, whether he's mad or sad or glad, take him seriously, and see the whole person. You'll be surprised how he'll respond. Acknowledge his contribution, thank him for putting up with that guy all day to eek out a living until things improve and he can get a better job. If he knows his sacrifices are appreciated, his mood and attitude will improve, and I bet he'll start to reciprocate all that happy stuff to you.


I know I sound Polly Anna, and I cant know what you are going through right now, but it helps me with my hubby. I tell him I appreciate how hard he works, and he in turn tells me how much he appreciates me. We do argue, but we end up saying how we feel and validate each others thoughts and work through it. I dont just assume anything when it comes to his reactions. As far as stuff at home, all I do is thank him and kiss him when he takes out the trash or does the dishes, and now I barely have to ask him and he hops to things. Then when I cook, or do laundry, or whatever, he's right there, telling me how wonderful I am, and is there anything he can do to help. If he washes the dishes differently than I do, I keep my mouth shut, because its not wrong, and I learned from my mother that if I complain, he'll stop helping. (She complained once to dad about how he did laundry and after 30 years, he still doesn't touch the clothes except to put them in the hamper.) I also make a point to tell him I love him and show him with my actions, and he reciprocates that too. I also was told by Hubby that if I don't ask for help, he doesn't know I need it, and will think I'm fine. I'm getting off track here. My point is, men are not some sex fiend monsters, they are whole people. Men are different from women, but that is GOOD, and they give what they get. So if you give love and respect, that's what they'll return.

pconsidine
10-22-2005, 01:38 AM
The whole cheating thing is a little convoluted to me, given the fact that I met my current wife while I was technically with another woman (and seeing a third on the side). I suppose it counts for more that as soon as I met her, I got rid of those other two girls as fast as I possibly could.

Funny - the only time I've ever broken my two big dating rules (no cheating and no dating someone at work) and I married her. What the hell?

sassandgroove
10-22-2005, 01:39 AM
I've had friends who think that sex w/ the same man after 12 years must be monotonous--but it's anything but. As your trust and knowledge with each other build, it can only get better, as far as I'm concerned.

Amen! I waited for my hubby, and he waited for me and man am I glad. I am looking forward to our life together, including that!

pconsidine
10-22-2005, 01:42 AM
Considering that we're entering our 11th year together and my wife has become a total porn star, I will third that emotion.

Wait - she might be mad at me for telling you all that. Damn.

Well, if you don't see me on Monday, it's cause I'm dead.

sassandgroove
10-22-2005, 01:59 AM
How wonderful to read all your posts. I've always asked married friends and family how they met. I love hearing people's stories, and that is one good way to get them talking, and I'm a romantic.

And some of you have said things that echo my own thoughts, like Jenna saying Anthony felt like family, and Poetinhat saying (ah, i'll paraphrase) he just knew, and Carole's hubby saying there is everyone else and then there is her.

When I met my hubby, that's how it was for us. And he's said something similar to me, Carole. Before, even when I was with friends and having fun, I had an empty feeling. Now that feeling is gone, and hubby said the same is true for him. We met in Nov 03, officially started dating in Feb 04, (we'd done group stuff before that), got engaged on MArch 28, 04, (two days before my b-day), and got married in Nov 04, a week after his birthday. People asked us if we were nervous, and we answered we were anxious for the wedding to go right, but not about the decision. I told a friend who was concerned about the swiftness of it that I knew it seemed rushed to outsiders, but to us it felt a long time coming, and it was just right. Poet is right, we just knew. He is my home and he is my family.

Vanessa, I bet you didn't expect this long thread from a day dreaming moment. Ha.
My hubby is not just Husband and Lover, he is also my Friend.
Hubby has a friend J. that got married becuase he was afraid if he didn't marry her he'd never get married. Hubby and J. and hubby's best friend T., (who married my best friend) were talking about hanging out with their respective wives. Hubby said to me later that he and T. married women that are fun just to be with, that we are friends, but J. sounded lonely to him, because his wife puts everyone else before him, and doesn't hang out with him much or seem to want to do anything he wants to do. (I am not exaggerating. She won't come on group outings to movies and dinner with his friends, she makes other plans. He told me once they went out to eat and then to the movies, and saw different movies. Why would I want to do that? I'd rather be single...poor guy.)

My point is maybe if you have a friend that is perfect is every way, that is a good place to start. Far be it from me to say you should, becuase I don't know you or him, but don't just write it off either. I am glad i married my good friend. And whether it is this friend of yours or someone else, you are wonderful and you deserve the best!

sassandgroove
10-22-2005, 02:01 AM
:Clap:

maestrowork
10-22-2005, 04:16 AM
Considering that we're entering our 11th year together and my wife has become a total porn star, I will third that emotion.

Wait - she might be mad at me for telling you all that. Damn.

Well, if you don't see me on Monday, it's cause I'm dead.

Anything I've seen her in?

(if you don't see me on Monday, it's cuz I'm... still on vacation)

Vanessa
10-22-2005, 05:37 AM
Amazing stories everyone. I keep reading some of them over and over. The way that you all met, and fell in love is so incredible. I want to feel all of that. And I know one day it'll come. The way some of you endured the stumbling blocks and still survived love. You all are wonderful, and inspiring.

MadScientistMatt
10-22-2005, 06:27 AM
My point is maybe if you have a friend that is perfect is every way, that is a good place to start. Far be it from me to say you should, becuase I don't know you or him, but don't just write it off either. I am glad i married my good friend. And whether it is this friend of yours or someone else, you are wonderful and you deserve the best!

My fiancee and I started out as friends too. Well, actually, I did ask her for a date about three weeks after we met, and she turned me down flat. But we stayed friends, going to the same church, sometimes sharing books and the like. She still has the bookmark I returned in the first book I borrowed from her. It wasn't until about seven months after we met that she asked me for a date.

aruna
10-24-2005, 05:11 PM
This last weekend I met an Indian newlywed couple, brought together through an arranged wedding. He is an engineer, living in London. She is a dentist, from India. Theyt'd only been married a month, but what a lovely couple. They radiated a kind of serenity and happiness that one finds only rarely in long-married couples. They way they looked at each other spoke volumes; and both were good-looking, too.

These days, arranged marriages in India are done in a very civil and mature way. Once it is established that the young people in question are willing, the parents start investigating for eligible partners. They sound out friends and relatives, place ads in the papers, etc. They try to find people with vital stats that are compatible: level of education, eating habits (veg or non-veg?), religion, profession, income expectations etc. Whether the woman wants to work and the man wants a working wife, or if she wants to raise children, and he wants that too.
Once those things prove compatible, the parents may then visit the person involved, to feel him or her out. Then they'll get photos, and show them to the other potential partner. The bride and groom to be can then have a look to see who sounds and looks attractive. They may start emailing or writing each other; I like this part because there's none of the coyness of western dating; both know that the end of this "sounding out" is commitment. If all goes well, they meet and then either it's yes, or no.

For such a thing to work, of course, there must be compete trust and understanding between parents and children. I am sure that my mother could never have found me the right partner, as she doesn't know me, never did. But if that trust is in place, I think it's an excellent method, and for some people - me, for instance - it's a very efficient and mature way of doing things. It would have saved me a lot of distress.

aspier
10-24-2005, 06:13 PM
Not that suprising! She's a dentist, she fixed his jaw and teeth into a permanent smile! Yes I know about marriage. Arranged or not!






(Smile! Aruna - jokey! But I couldn't leave it!)

aruna
10-24-2005, 06:20 PM
Not that suprising! She's a dentist, she fixed his jaw and teeth into a permanent smile! Yes I know about marriage. Arranged or not!



(Smile! Aruna - jokey! But I couldn't leave it!)

Well, that's better than this::Ssh: (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=0#)
or this
:Jaw: (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=0#)

pconsidine
10-24-2005, 06:51 PM
PS - I'm not dead.

Phew!

WVWriterGirl
10-24-2005, 09:47 PM
My husband and I will have been married seven years on Halloween, and as of Aug. 5 (6, there's some discrepancy there), we had been together for ten years. It's not always been peaches and cream, but the sweet moments have far outweighed the sour.

He and I went to college together. It was a local community college, most people only get two year degrees there, or use it as a jumping-off point to go to a big university somewhere and finish their education. That's what I was doing. I didn't know him until he was ready to graduate with his Associate's in Criminal Justice.

You see, we hung out at the same comic book shop. Even though I went to college with him, I never saw him on campus because we took such different classes. The only time I saw him was at The Emporium, the local comic book/video rental/Magic the Gathering game spot. Between classes, I'd go hang out at the comic shop with a bunch of guys (it's hard being a fangirl in a small town); Chris was one of them. I flirted heavily with him, but got nowhere. He wouldn't even acknowledge me. It wasn't until after we started dating that he told me that he was still married, but separated, waiting for his divorce to become final. He said it felt like "cheating" on his first wife, even though there was nothing left of the marriage (it was she who originally cheated on him, asked him to leave and sought the divorce). We had our first kiss on August 5th or 6th, and about ten days later, he proposed to me and I said yes.

Three years of living together (much to my mother's dismay) went by before we finally got married. We both wanted to grow and mature in the relationship. When he proposed and I said yes, I was 19 and he was 31; I had to "grow into" wife material (at least in my eyes) and I trained him out of all the bad habits the witch had set in him. Before we got together, he hadn't worked a steady job in ten years. Since we've been together, he hasn't been out of a job for more than three or four months at a stretch; and has only been out of work a couple of times. I snagged a good one that someone else just threw away.

I've said a thousand times that when he dies, you might as well knock me in the head and put me in there with him. I know I can "do" without him; the thing of it is, I don't want to. We don't have to be in constant contact, or be silly-in-love to actually love each other. We just be. Chris and I have talked many times about why so many couples divorce, and how so many people find it hard to get along. I think its so much easier to be honest and loving with your mate; lying and sneaking around is too much darn work. It's just easier to get along. But then again, I guess like so many others have said, some people thrive on drama and complication.

We fight, but not "throw you out" fighting. More like "spats". Most of the time our arguments degenerate to playful derogatory name-calling, then to kissing, then to...well... Like someone above said, arguing is an itegral part of any relationship. I'd be a Stepford Wife if I never disagreed with him...and I didn't marry a mannequin, either.

When it came to knowing he was the right one, I just knew. I still get chills when he wakes me in the mornings or I see him for the first time in a day; I get all girly-nervous when he calls me, you know, kind of like a rush of heat and excitement when you see that it's him calling you. His kisses still make me weak, and his touch still raises gooseflesh of excitement. I think he's the most handsome man in the world, and he still thinks I'm beautiful. It's been that way for ten years now, and I'm confident it will remain so for decades to come.

aspier
10-24-2005, 11:25 PM
Well, that's better than this::Ssh: (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=0#)
or this
:Jaw: (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=0#)
Wooooeee! Happy she didn't bite my head off! Smile + tnx Aruna.

I've taught to Islam children and by Jove did I experience drama with these 'chosen marriages'. One just cannot imagine. In the Hindu culture ... I do not have any experience with it. But I know that 'councilers' read the horoscope and there's a lot of psychological guidance from both the community and the elders. With Islam it seems it is the idoitic male dominancy of the father figure that scores more points than the intuition of the fragile youngster with all his hopes and tender feelings. Arrange mariages in these cases are putting people in prisons. I am against that. Then again ... my own kids ... oh! Oh! Etc.

Are you absolutely for mixed marriages?

MarkButler
10-25-2005, 12:42 AM
We are at 24.5 years together and she keeps telling me I'm enjoying it more and more...

Just kidding, we really are doing better every year now...things were tough about 8 years ago but we made it through the other side..

The one observation I can make is that many marriages are not what I would consider a marriage, rather they are co-habitating a house and living their own parallel lives that occasionally intersect. To me a marriage means we face the future together as a team. I can't even imagine making any plans that don't include her... I don't mean what grocery store to stop at, but the big things.

I applaud partners who make a real effort to understand and make themselves part of their partners life..the issue can be very complicated.. I dragged my brother aside recently and asked him what was bothering him. He's been married for about a year now (he's 52) and I expected it to be some variation on "shes not what I expected"...instead he told me that she has informed him she is totally devoted to him but when he is gone she will move on to another man. Since he is older than her and working 2 jobs to pay for his larger family he is convinced he will be gone first. He told me "her kids don't care about me, the new husband won't care about me.....everything I have besides cash, everything I was, everything I considered important will just be thrown into the trash when I'm gone."

Mark

StoryG27
10-25-2005, 01:16 AM
"her kids don't care about me, the new husband won't care about me.....everything I have besides cash, everything I was, everything I considered important will just be thrown into the trash when I'm gone."

Holy cow! I feel like wrapping your brother up in a big hug. Poor guy. What did you do when he said this? Really, what can you do? I definitely can't think of an even slightly intellegent piece of advice except for my immediate anger reaction that says, "Dump the b1tch!" Of course, that's a horrible response, especially since I really believe in working through problems together in a marriage. Gosh, how sad for your bro though. I'm sending a cyber hug to you to give to him from me, k.
:Hug2:

MarkButler
10-25-2005, 11:25 PM
We worked out a deal where he can box things up and put my name on it...assuming I am still around.

I would imagine its a common problem for people who marry late in life and don't have any kids of their own...the expectation that your partner will spend the rest of their days pining away for you and cherishing your treasures seems unrealistic.

Mark

Carole
10-26-2005, 12:46 AM
I'm just astounded. Take this for what it's worth to you, but honestly...the capacity for attachment and love aren't limited by your age! Think about it: My mom and dad are 67 and 75 respectively. They are very attached to my hubby and my brother's future wife and they rarely see them. The are involved in all our lives within reason and have everyones photos on their walls. My husband and my brother's future wife ARE part of the whole family, and were very quickly.

Another example, because that last one might not make sense (imagine that, right?) My ex-landlady. She is 66. She was married 3 years ago. Her NEW husband's family...daughter and sons...don't look at her like she is their mom, but they are attached to her. She is family. On the flip side, ex-landlady's sons have become attached to her husband's family. It all just melts together.

I don't know. Maybe it is just me, but family is family no matter how long or short a time you have been together. i'm just really baffled by the idea that some aren't. I mean, isn't that one of the reasons you get married in the first place?

sassandgroove
10-26-2005, 12:54 AM
I feel like hugging your brother too, but I was wondering. I don't know, I wasn't there, and I don't know them, but...could it be that she indicated that if/when he dies, she probably would remarry, and he just interpretted it for the worse, even if she is attached to him?:Shrug: Do you get my meaning? I know sometimes I tend to get all emotional about something and read into things and see things in the worst light. That, of course, is something I work on and try not to do, but I know there is the capacity for it. Maybe she said something without realizing how it would sound to your brother? Maybe I am just hoping because I always want people to be happy.

Carole
10-26-2005, 01:02 AM
I agree with the sex getting beter thing. BIG time. It has taken us nearly 8 years to get to where we are today. We are constantly learning about eachother and continue to be interested. Sex in the beginning was actually a little awkward with hubby and me, to be honest. It's time and experience and an appreciation of one another that has brought us to where we are now....completely exhausted by Sunday night!!!

Hubby and I are a bit of an odd story.

Marc and I actually met online. Yes, believe it or not. Online. In a chat room, no less. (go ahead...laugh...eye roll...yeah) We played a game as part of a group and I really liked his sense of humor. I was married to my ex at that time and had absolutely no intention of meeting this new guy-friend. I didn't even know his real name, for Pete's sake! He was nothing but a person I knew who played a game I liked.

Fast forward past ex-jerk & me splitting up (Thank GOD) and quite by accident bumping into Marc again online while helping my neice figure out how to use her new computer...talking more...then on the phone...then over a year later, I was walking through the Orlando airport looking for him. The very second I saw him I felt something very unusual and the moment he smiled at me, WOW. Yes. He instantly felt like family. Thing is, he felt like family on the telephone, too.

Here is the thing. Ex-jerk was "the perfect match" for me. The son of my church's pastor. Good looking, hard working, nice family, solid upbringing, college education. And I regretted my marriage to him practically from the gate. I was only 18 when we married.

Hubby, on the other hand. Sheesh. He has an 8 inch long braided goatee, hair that is almost as long as mine, a lip peircing and several tatts. No college education. Can cuss to make a sailor blush. He forgets that trash cans actually exist. Wears muddy boots in the house after the umpteenth time I have begged him not to. And I could not possibly have found a more perfect mate for myself. He says the same. Both of us, we just knew. At the same time...in that airport, we just knew.

Even with the way he looks kinda scary, my entire family took to him immediately, even my brother. That's saying a lot! ~laughing~ My brother was always known for beating up my boyfriends.

Vanessa, I'm not trying to say that all matches will be an instantaneus *magic moment* out of the blue, but I know it is possible...and I believe when you really know, there will be no doubt. :)

Jaycinth
10-26-2005, 01:13 AM
Sigh::::::::Something told me to RUN the second he proposed. This is one of the occasions I didn't listen to my inner self.
19 questionable years and two wonderful, exqusite kids later (And lets not forget half of my in-laws are not only on my side but nice.) I keep leaving the door open, hoping he'll wander away. . .. . . .

All in all, the kids are worth all the *********!!!!******!*!* I've put up with.

And I'm glad that I seem to be the exception that proves a marriage can be happy. (Heck, I'm overjoyed. Doesn't take much to make me happy.)
Good evening. I'm going home to cook, check homework, and write.

maestrowork
10-26-2005, 05:18 AM
You are making me depressed.

Unique
10-26-2005, 04:03 PM
No need to get depressed, Ray.

You have a whole caboodle of fine friends. Your day will come (quit running so fast!) You are much too tasty to stay single forever.

Maryn
10-26-2005, 05:25 PM
You are making me depressed.With apologies to The Graduate...

Maryn: I want to say one word to you. Just one word.
Ray: Yes, ma'am.
Maryn: Are you listening?
Ray: Yes, I am.
Maryn: Menage.

Maryn, knowing that's a cheery thought

Carole
10-26-2005, 05:25 PM
No need to get depressed, Ray.

You have a whole caboodle of fine friends. Your day will come (quit running so fast!) You are much too tasty to stay single forever.
If I were a lot younger...and single, you'd have to lock your door and beat me off with a stick, Ray.

StoryG27
10-26-2005, 06:01 PM
I would imagine its a common problem for people who marry late in life and don't have any kids of their own...the expectation that your partner will spend the rest of their days pining away for you and cherishing your treasures seems unrealistic.
Yeah, but from what it sounded like, unless your brother is misinterpreting what his wife says, she won't keep anything other than his nifty cash around, and the impression I got, is that she plans on moving on once he passes. That's odd. Usually, if you love someone, it is very difficult to imagine ever sharing your life with another...though after some time, in reality it is quite likely to happen. So a more realistic outlook of someone deeply in love with a person who is likely to die first is usually along the lines of: I don't know what will happen. I'm sure I'll eventually fall in love again, but it just doesn't seem possible right now.

Pining over someone for years is different than cherishing memories and even a few keepsakes. Of course she won't keep everything of his...no one would. But if she truly loves him, she won't automatically stop loving him just because he dies even though she's still fairly young.

Maybe your bother is being overly sensetive because he is suddenly faced with his own mortality, or maybe he is completely right in his thoughts (though for his sake, I hope not). Either way, HE needs to decide what will happen with all his belongings and such that he doesn't want just tossed out, and it sounds like you and he have talked about it and worked it out, but hopefully it's in writing.

I guess the way he feels, whether or not he is correct, just makes me sad because everyone deserves to be loved unconditionally and eternally by thier spouse, the way my hubby loved me from day one. I know everyone deserves it because if there was anyone who didn't, it was me when he found me. For years, even married to him, I didn't believe in the type of love my hubby holds, so I took it for granted, down played it. Otherwise I'd have to open myself up to feel the same and accept some things that I just didn't want to. I finally did it. Granted I was terrified and was pratcically kicking and screaming, but I did it. Opening myself up to recieve that type of love, to know it existed was THE most painful thing I've ever done, but now it is so rewarding. Now I strive everyday to somehow deserve or even earn the love he gives so freely. But the problem is, not everyone gets that kind of love, even though many are so deserving of it, more so than I ever was. I have the idealist attitude of no one should have to accept anything less...no one should accept anything less...but unfortuantely, that's just not the way it works...though that reality bugs the hell out of me. If he has only been married a couple years, they still have a lot of growing to do...so maybe he'll feel better after some time has passed and they meld into a stronger couple and family unit. I sure hope so.

MarkButler
10-26-2005, 06:53 PM
You sound like your were pretty down on yourself when your hubby met you.. I'm really glad you have such a wonderful relationship...having someone there by your side to face life together with, to love and cherish.. its just the best thing there is. My wife deserved far better than me but I thank my lucky stars every day that she loves me and wants to share her life with me.
Mark

Vanessa
10-28-2005, 09:35 AM
You sound like your were pretty down on yourself when your hubby met you.. I'm really glad you have such a wonderful relationship...having someone there by your side to face life together with, to love and cherish.. its just the best thing there is. My wife deserved far better than me but I thank my lucky stars every day that she loves me and wants to share her life with me.
Mark

Now that's special and so sweet.

pconsidine
10-28-2005, 06:55 PM
My wife deserved far better than me but I thank my lucky stars every day that she loves me and wants to share her life with me. Lol. It's a running joke between my wife and me that I'm lucky she was only 18 when I met her. If she was any older, she would have known right away that should could have done better than me.

I wrote a screenplay once where the main character was getting married and his father offered him this piece of advice: "Son, the second you think she's not too good for you, it's over."

I think that's one of the truest lines I've ever written. :)

Carole
10-28-2005, 07:46 PM
Oh, that's cute. That's a great line. Well, of course I think so cuz I'm female, but it's still cute.

ex-jerk and his wife despise me, for many reasons really. Mostly because of the huge weight loss that happened a few years ago. Hubby couldn't care less about my weight, but ex-jerk was a real *** about it. He wouldn't allow me to go back to school because he wanted to take out a loan to send me to Jenny Craing instead, which he did. He'd refuse to look at old photos of the *before kids* me because he said it depressed him too much.

When all the poundage came off, the next time I saw ex-jerk he nearly had to scrape his jaw off the ground. His wife despises me, too, and tells my boys that I am on drugs...that's the reason I lost the weight. Idiots. What are ya gonna do, right?

MarkButler
10-28-2005, 08:11 PM
Sounds to me like a great motivation to keep the weight off!

pconsidine
10-28-2005, 08:23 PM
And even better motivation to kick this *****'s *** from here to Hawaii and back.

Not that I'm a violent sort or anything.

Carole
10-28-2005, 08:37 PM
Sounds to me like a great motivation to keep the weight off!
Oh, Lord....it's already been 4-5 years or so. I doubt it's coming back. It was my state of mind in the first place. I stressed myself into it. Rather, HE stressed me into it. Jerk.

pconsidine
10-28-2005, 11:09 PM
Yeah. Jerk. Though it's a sure sign of the guy's character that he'd get so hung up on it in the first place. And that's coming from a guy who's been on both sides of the weight pendulum with the same woman.

spanner3
11-25-2007, 07:21 PM
Want mine????

Dam.
You beat me to it.:Shrug:

Maggie

scarletpeaches
11-25-2007, 07:27 PM
...Knowing that almost anything can be made better by a roll in the hay, is an easy fix...

There was me thinking sex should be a way of expressing affection, and all the time it's a chore, a way to stop your husband being angry? Wow.

sassandgroove
11-26-2007, 09:18 PM
Where is Vanessa anyway? I haven't seen her in awhile.

NeuroFizz
11-26-2007, 09:30 PM
There was me thinking sex should be a way of expressing affection, and all the time it's a chore, a way to stop your husband being angry? Wow.
Sort of blows the shit out of all of those romance novels, doesn't it?

scarletpeaches
11-26-2007, 09:31 PM
Well next time a man gets angry at me I'm just gonna give him some good ol' sexlovin'!

Maryn
11-26-2007, 09:40 PM
That'll show him, scarlet!

JLCwrites
11-26-2007, 09:42 PM
OLD THREAD

P.H.Delarran
11-26-2007, 10:53 PM
OLD THREAD
No kidding-and I repped a few before realizing just how old :D
there's some good posts here. (I only got through three pages)