Dog Pulls

wonderactivist · Mar 12, 2011

As writers, you should know about the project we did today at the bookshop where I work. It's done regularly at every bookshop I know of--and it's changing.

We call it the "Dog Pull List."

Sometimes books that were expected to be successes turn out to be duds. We call them "dogs." Our bookstore can return the dogs to their publishers for credit against new purchases. In these tight times for brick & mortar shops, that happens faster and faster.

Today, as in the last few times I did the "Dog Pull List," I was at times pulling books directly off the NY Times "Bestseller" table--and adding them to my cart of books to be returned.

You read correctly, the NY Times Bestsellers are sometimes being returned to the publisher while they're still on the NY Times Bestseller List.

Of course,

1) those are often the ones that were purchased in large quantities; and
2) these authors might sell lots of e-books,

but nevertheless, I'm sending back massive quantities of books by authors you're watching on TV or hearing in interviews on the radio, about this book that I'm sending back.

I can promise you that our shop won't order as many copies of the next book by a "bestselling" author whose last title had to be returned. While they're not shipping paper back & forth, those e-marketers have to have a similar way of "spotlighting" books. The book market engine has cycles--and they're getting shorter. Everyone HAS to move away from stagnant books fast--or they'll go under.

The simple fact is that not as many young people read for pleasure.

The book-buying market is shrinking. Sure it's nice to think that some folks will go back and buy digital copies of books that they own already on paper, but truly it's a different phenomena from the music industry or the movie industry.

Fewer young people read for pleasure.

They still watch movies, just in a new format.

They still listen to music, in a different format.

They don't read books, well, not the majority of them...and those of us who do read have less time for reading since we're playing Playstation, Wii, or The Social Network on our iPads.

What does a shrinking literary "pie" ultimately mean to new authors? How can we become exceptions to the slacking sales norm? (Like Charlaine Harris or Robert Jordan?) Wow, a Stefenie Meyer was on my pull list today--not that anyone could accuse her of wimping out on pie.

I personally loaded up a whole lot of Franzen "dogs" a while back, so you can't just say, "Write a good book." There's more to this challenge and we as authors have to stay on top of it.

As I rolled my 4ft-long, six-shelf cart of "dogs" - some NY Times bestselling "dogs - to the back room and placed a sign on them that said "Dog Pulls," I thought:

"This is reality."

Time to trump it with a well-executed dream?

Shadow_Ferret · Mar 12, 2011

wonderactivist said:
Fewer young people read for pleasure.

The heyday of the novel's popularity is long gone, sadly. I wonder if the novel's peak was sometime in the 1920s or '30s. Before the rise of movies. Before the rise of radio dramas. Certainly before the rise of television and many of the other forms of entertainment that books have to compete with today.

The Pulp Era was probably the peak, with hundreds, maybe thousands, of fiction magazines.

eBooks won't save the publishing industry. I think they'll just delay the inevitable.

Reading is a dying form of entertainment.

wonderactivist · Mar 12, 2011

Dear Shadow, I appreciate your response and agree with almost everything you said except:

Shadow_Ferret said:
Reading is a dying form of entertainment.

It really isn't. The fact is that you cannot explore the depth of an idea in a movie like you can in a book. There will always be thinkers and those thinkers will read--some young people LOVE to read. On top of that, the IDEAS for so many of our films come from books.

IMHO, we aren't dead, just shrunken.

Shadow_Ferret · Mar 12, 2011

I think you're in denial.

It might not completely go away, but it will never regain it's former glory.

kaitie · Mar 12, 2011

I could have sworn I saw something recently that said that the number of people reading had actually been going up in recent years?

Susan Coffin · Mar 12, 2011

Shadow_Ferret said:
Reading is a dying form of entertainment.

No it not.

The younger generation loves vampire novels. They love Harry Potter, Twilight, and all books paranormal and spooky. I see people on E readers all the time. I love my hardback books with the musty old smell. I, along with people from my generation, love a whole range of literature, from the classics to modern, and anything on the bestseller list. There are plenty of people from every generation who love to read.

I don't deny that kids are finding too many video games to play, too much TV to watch, and spending too much times on their I phones. However, there will always be more than enough of us who love to read to keep the entertainment alive.

Susan Coffin · Mar 12, 2011

kaitie said:
I could have sworn I saw something recently that said that the number of people reading had actually been going up in recent years?

I think I read that as well. It's so much more entertaining for me to get lost in a book than a TV show or movie.

kaitie · Mar 12, 2011

I could have sworn it was linked to the economy and books like Twilight and Harry Potter, too. I wish I remembered enough to find a link, though. I remembered thinking ti was cool because it went against the typical thought that no one reads anymore.

Puma · Mar 13, 2011

My soapbox - I've seen several times that the bulk of the reading population is over fifty - and that demographic is having a hard time finding good books to read. That demographic also presumably would have a higher percentage of disposable income. And that group is also the one most likely to find books in bookstores, at the library, and shun e-books. But the publishing industry hasn't yet figured out there's a population there that could be well and profitably served and continues to pump out books that appeal to the under thirty generation. Add into this, the publishing industry in the states is directing their purchases to what appeals in New York and California and missing the bread basket of the nation, and the Bible Belt, and, and ... Puma

Jamesaritchie · Mar 13, 2011

wonderactivist said:
As writers, you should know about the project we did today at the bookshop where I work. It's done regularly at every bookshop I know of--and it's changing.

We call it the "Dog Pull List."

Sometimes books that were expected to be successes turn out to be duds. We call them "dogs." Our bookstore can return the dogs to their publishers for credit against new purchases. In these tight times for brick & mortar shops, that happens faster and faster.

Today, as in the last few times I did the "Dog Pull List," I was at times pulling books directly off the NY Times "Bestseller" table--and adding them to my cart of books to be returned.

You read correctly, the NY Times Bestsellers are sometimes being returned to the publisher while they're still on the NY Times Bestseller List.

Of course,

1) those are often the ones that were purchased in large quantities; and
2) these authors might sell lots of e-books,

but nevertheless, I'm sending back massive quantities of books by authors you're watching on TV or hearing in interviews on the radio, about this book that I'm sending back.

I can promise you that our shop won't order as many copies of the next book by a "bestselling" author whose last title had to be returned. While they're not shipping paper back & forth, those e-marketers have to have a similar way of "spotlighting" books. The book market engine has cycles--and they're getting shorter. Everyone HAS to move away from stagnant books fast--or they'll go under.

The simple fact is that not as many young people read for pleasure.

The book-buying market is shrinking. Sure it's nice to think that some folks will go back and buy digital copies of books that they own already on paper, but truly it's a different phenomena from the music industry or the movie industry.

Fewer young people read for pleasure.

They still watch movies, just in a new format.

They still listen to music, in a different format.

They don't read books, well, not the majority of them...and those of us who do read have less time for reading since we're playing Playstation, Wii, or The Social Network on our iPads.

What does a shrinking literary "pie" ultimately mean to new authors? How can we become exceptions to the slacking sales norm? (Like Charlaine Harris or Robert Jordan?) Wow, a Stefenie Meyer was on my pull list today--not that anyone could accuse her of wimping out on pie.

I personally loaded up a whole lot of Franzen "dogs" a while back, so you can't just say, "Write a good book." There's more to this challenge and we as authors have to stay on top of it.

As I rolled my 4ft-long, six-shelf cart of "dogs" - some NY Times bestselling "dogs - to the back room and placed a sign on them that said "Dog Pulls," I thought:

"This is reality."

Time to trump it with a well-executed dream?

I don't believe a word of it, except the part about returns, and that's one of the things wrong with the publishing world, and why I wish most bookshops would die a painful death.

Absolutely you'll order fewer books by a writer next time, but it's because you ordered too damned many this time, knowing you could just return the ones that didn't sell. This doesn't mean people are reading less, they aren't. It does mean bookstores have been a bigger problem than lack of readers.

Absolutely nothing bears out what you say. Certainly not the numbers of young people reading. More young people are reading novels than ever before. Which doesn't mean a majority do. This was NEVER the case.

And it is complete bullshit to say the heyday of the novel's popularity is long gone. Anyone who believes this must have been born last night. They sure as hell have zero knowledge of publishing history, and of few novels had to sell just a handful of years ago to reach number one on the NYT list. Publishing was infinitely smaller in the so-called "Golden Age of publishing, and sales numbers now dwarf what even the top writers sold then. Far more writers in every genre earn a living now than even exists in the Golden Age,

Publishing, and number of novels sold, is so much larger in every way now that it's almost unbelievable. The novel was, of course, declared dead in 1980. Not just dying, but dead, Again by "experts" who had no clue about publishing history, or even the current status of sales.

The problem with publishing, and with the novel, is that too many publishers are releasing too many novels by too many writers. This has been true for twenty years, and self-publishing just adds to the problem. But it sure as hell is NOT lack of readers, young, old, or anywhere between. Chain bookstores have been a huge problem, but one that may be slowly resolving itself.

Shadow_Ferret · Mar 13, 2011

kaitie said:
I could have sworn I saw something recently that said that the number of people reading had actually been going up in recent years?

I'd really like to see the link.

I'd really like to know how many readers there are PER CAPITA. The percentage of readers. My thought is that even with the Harry Potters and Twilights out there, the percentage of readers today is still tiny compared to the percentage of readers in the 20s and 30s.

dangerousbill · Mar 13, 2011

wonderactivist said:
As writers, you should know about the project we did today at the bookshop where I work. It's done regularly at every bookshop I know of--and it's changing.
We call it the "Dog Pull List."

I thought this thread had something to do with making dachsunds out of beagles. What a relief!

wonderactivist · Mar 13, 2011

Thanks y'all for sharing your thoughts.

James and Kaitie, I would love to see more about these kids who read so much--it would make my month! And I'm not talking about the HP/Twilight generation. I'm talking about kids, 13 & under, and how they are not reading for the most part.

My hope was that this thread would spin more in the direction of overcoming the odds. The fact is that bookstores are closing across this country, but a few will survive. The e-book industry will deliver less focused attention to any author for a shorter period. It'll speed everything up.

But there will be exceptions--how can we make ourselves exceptions?

That's what I'd love to hear thoughts about. IMHO, not only do we need to write well, but we have to:

* find a voice that can't be ignored. To write pages that can't be put down.
* explore new forms that redefine "book," like Seder did with his scanimations in Gallop!. I've yet to meet a child--or an adult--who could set down Gallop! when they had never seen a scanimation page before.

I'd love to hear more talk around here about how we're going to create the books that will grab hold of a reader's imagination and open it up in ways a movie or video game cannot--but with a fresh approach that young people will be more attracted to.

That's what I'm trying to take from the dog pull.

Warm regards,

Lucie

BarbaraKE · Mar 13, 2011

I've also heard that young people are reading more than they were (let's say) twenty years ago. And I believe it's true. Why??

The internet.

I realize many people equate 'reading' with 'novels' but that's not necessarily true. Things like texting and tweets involve *reading*.

wonderactivist · Mar 13, 2011

Good point, Barbara.

So how are we as writers going to overcome that?

Jessianodel · Mar 13, 2011

the only redeeming thing I see in twilight personally is that it got young kids reading something they previously hadn't done. After they finish the series they start looking for other books to read and slowly they broaden their horizons.

JimmyB27 · Mar 14, 2011

wonderactivist said:
But there will be exceptions--how can we make ourselves exceptions?

Write the best damn book you can.

veinglory · Mar 14, 2011

As I recall, the PW figures showed that fewer people were reading, but those people were reading more. Thus book sales were holding about the same.

Mom'sWrite · Mar 14, 2011

Jamesaritchie said:
I don't believe a word of it, except the part about returns, and that's one of the things wrong with the publishing world, and why I wish most bookshops would die a painful death.

Absolutely you'll order fewer books by a writer next time, but it's because you ordered too damned many this time, knowing you could just return the ones that didn't sell. This doesn't mean people are reading less, they aren't. It does mean bookstores have been a bigger problem than lack of readers.

Absolutely nothing bears out what you say. Certainly not the numbers of young people reading. More young people are reading novels than ever before. Which doesn't mean a majority do. This was NEVER the case.

And it is complete bullshit to say the heyday of the novel's popularity is long gone. Anyone who believes this must have been born last night. They sure as hell have zero knowledge of publishing history, and of few novels had to sell just a handful of years ago to reach number one on the NYT list. Publishing was infinitely smaller in the so-called "Golden Age of publishing, and sales numbers now dwarf what even the top writers sold then. Far more writers in every genre earn a living now than even exists in the Golden Age,

Publishing, and number of novels sold, is so much larger in every way now that it's almost unbelievable. The novel was, of course, declared dead in 1980. Not just dying, but dead, Again by "experts" who had no clue about publishing history, or even the current status of sales.

The problem with publishing, and with the novel, is that too many publishers are releasing too many novels by too many writers. This has been true for twenty years, and self-publishing just adds to the problem. But it sure as hell is NOT lack of readers, young, old, or anywhere between. Chain bookstores have been a huge problem, but one that may be slowly resolving itself.

QFT

Plus where purchasing actual, physical books may be down, reading as entertainment is enjoying renewed popularity. Walk into a library and watch the books fly off the shelves. In my local library, the new book section is most often empty and not because the books were sent back to the publisher. People are reading, young people are reading, that much is true.

Wiskel · Mar 21, 2011

I believe that we're standing right on the edge of a major change in shopping habits.

Last week I bought a kindle. Long story short, my brother recomended a book that I can't get from the one remaining uk highstreet bookshop chain. Turns it it's self published but if my brother recomends it then I figure it's worth a look. That didn't convince me to buy a kindle out of nowhere, but it was the little shunt I needed.

Same week i was looking for a new album after I liked one of the free songs given away on itunes. Couldn't find it in the one remaining highstreet chain that sells lots of albums. I've downloaded it instead.

Same week, it's my nephews birthday. The lego firetruck I wanted wasn't in the two remaining highstreet toystores. I bought it online in the same order as my kindle.

I'm not convinced that either books or music or lego are becoming extinct, just that the highstreet is changing.

Civilisation goes in circles. First someone figures out what's possible, then someone figures out how to do it well, then a manager arrives and tries to do it in the most cost-effective way. Right now we're in manager heaven. We've lost too many independants and have too many chains. We'll get the independants back,eventually, but it will be hit and miss whether they open near you or me. Then they'll grow, become good chains before finally becoming fat and bloated chains and passing away.

The answer to the original question is to support shops that do things well and try to resist the urge to save a lttle money by buying books in shops that don't support the industry well. Easier said than done in difficult economic times and if I was going to practice this diligently I'd have ordered my lego from a small toy store a month ago rather than giving amazon the sale.

Craig

Dog Pulls

wonderactivist

Shadow_Ferret

Court Jester

wonderactivist

Shadow_Ferret

Court Jester

kaitie

With great power comes

Susan Coffin

Tell it like it Is

Susan Coffin

Tell it like it Is

kaitie

With great power comes

Puma

Retired and loving it!

Jamesaritchie

Shadow_Ferret

Court Jester

dangerousbill

Retired Illuminatus

wonderactivist

BarbaraKE

wonderactivist

Jessianodel

Blessed by the AW Gods

JimmyB27

Hoopy frood

veinglory

volitare nequeo

Mom'sWrite

Service with a smile

Wiskel

practical experience, FTW