One way of getting rid of the homeless

seun · Mar 1, 2011

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23927563-do-soup-runs-harm-rough-sleepers.do

A council wants to outlaw soup runs around Westminster Cathedral because they attract large numbers of homeless people to the area.

So this is how we should deal with the homeless? Starve them because they make the area look untidy?

Mac H. · Mar 1, 2011

There was an outcry here a few years ago when a Catholic church announced that assisting the poor was not 'good use of church resources'.

Mac

CACTUSWENDY · Mar 1, 2011

Jeremy Swain, Thames Reach chief executive, said: "Street handouts do little to help people make the step away from rough sleeping. Instead they frequently prevent people facing up to the reality of the harmful life-style they have adopted."

Prevent people facing up to the reality of the harmful life-style they have ADOPTED. Like what choice did most of them have? I'm sure that was not the choice they really want. Duh.

seun · Mar 1, 2011

I like the guy who said:
"Soup runs have no place in the 21st century."

Think he missed out the word should in there somewhere.

Lyra Jean · Mar 1, 2011

Mac H. said:
There was an outcry here a few years ago when a Catholic church announced that assisting the poor was not 'good use of church resources'.

Mac

But isn't it one of the church functions in Christianity, Catholic and Protestant, to help the poor. This makes my brain hurt.

SPMiller · Mar 1, 2011

We could always round them up every now and then and kill them. Problem solved, right?

regdog · Mar 1, 2011

Sure, kick a person when they're down. Once they'e lost their home, make them go hungry.

seun · Mar 1, 2011

I think what pisses me off the most about this is the sentiment behind it, the sort of thinking that puts rich people in their nice houses above people with nothing.

Priene · Mar 1, 2011

You'd think Shirley Porter was still in charge.

icerose · Mar 1, 2011

Utah started a program for the chronic homeless that has really made a difference. They converted an old hotel into an apartment building with hundreds of apartments. In this they work to help the homeless gain permanent housing. They start off in the apartments, work on getting them cleaned up, feeling secure, and then help them with vocational rehab and help them get a job until they can afford to move out on their own. The newly vacant apartment is then turned over to next person or family. Their goal is that every chronic homeless person is housable. Their next goal is that every ex-homeless person is then employable. They provide mental services as well as food, real shelter, and so forth. It's made a huge difference around here and is different from the bandaid soup runs (which though important are definitely temporary help). Maybe they'll adopt something like that to help solve the problem rather than shuffle it elsewhere?

ETA: Here's a linky. http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=10773734 We're down to half of one percent of the population which is half the national average of chronically homeless so the program is working.

CACTUSWENDY · Mar 1, 2011

Being on this side of the pond....I think we use the term 'transient' to describe one that 'chooses' to live on the streets. To me a 'homeless' person is one that has fell on hard times and for a season finds themselves living on the street.

I agree that many that fall into the term 'transient' do not really do the state any good by their choice. I have met many of this type of person. On the other hand, the ones that have found themselves homeless need all the help/aid they can get to lift themselves back up. I have helped some of them find a better way. IMHO

As someone shared here, many of the 'transients' have past problems that need other kinds of help. Again....IMHO

ETA:...Thanks for the spell check.

Smish · Mar 1, 2011

Mac H. said:
There was an outcry here a few years ago when a Catholic church announced that assisting the poor was not 'good use of church resources'.

Mac

This thread has left me speechless...

scarletpeaches · Mar 1, 2011

Fruitbat said:
Having actually worked with the homeless I believe I have a more realistic attitude than those who haven't. I became disillusioned because mostly it was simple enabling. So, they get food, get their laundry washed, their medical care, their bag of goodies and etc. Largely, the rest of us have taken care of their basic needs so they can get back to their addictions and crime.

It was by far mostly hardcore, addicted, single males who would come there year after year, NOT those temporarily homeless due to hard times. I feel much more sorry for all their kids they're not supporting than I do for them, sorry. Taking advantage of the help offered, not to get on their feet, but only to continue on with a shiftless, criminal lifestyle that they do NOT want to be rescued from. The help for that WAS offered. It was rarely accepted. Those that want help were not there often or for long.

Look deeper, of course there are reasons, they do not usually come as blessed as the rest of us. Many have deep childhood scars, mental problems, drug problems, veterans with PTSD, etc. But, again, lifestyle change was not often wanted nor accepted.

I know this, whatever hand you've been dealt, you've got to help YOURSELF. Otherwise, there's NOTHING anybody else can do for you. It's no different from if you have an alcoholic in your own family who scams everyone to keep on with his mess and leaves a trail of destruction in his wake. Same exact situation, with some exceptions of course.

This, this, a thousand times this.

Yes, I agree there are some people on the streets through no fault of their own but how many are there because of gambling? Drug addiction? Alcoholism?

This has nothing to do with rich people looking down on the poor folks. "There but for the grace of God go I?" Hell no. Homelessness rarely if ever happens overnight and through no fault of your own.

For this very reason I never give beggars money. Cruel? I'd say tough love. I refuse to enable. I'll buy you a meal, but I won't give you money. I'll help you to get out of a bad situation but I will never help you to stay there.

ETA: And lest anyone think I'm being unnecessarily cold, let me add yes, I have done voluntary work but I believe discretion is the better part of valour, so I'll say no more than I know of what I speak.

tjwriter · Mar 1, 2011

icerose said:
Utah started a program for the chronic homeless that has really made a difference. They converted an old hotel into an apartment building with hundreds of apartments. In this they work to help the homeless gain permanent housing. They start off in the apartments, work on getting them cleaned up, feeling secure, and then help them with vocational rehab and help them get a job until they can afford to move out on their own. The newly vacant apartment is then turned over to next person or family. Their goal is that every chronic homeless person is housable. Their next goal is that every ex-homeless person is then employable. They provide mental services as well as food, real shelter, and so forth. It's made a huge difference around here and is different from the bandaid soup runs (which though important are definitely temporary help). Maybe they'll adopt something like that to help solve the problem rather than shuffle it elsewhere?

ETA: Here's a linky. http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=10773734 We're down to half of one percent of the population which is half the national average of chronically homeless so the program is working.

One my lottery dreams (You know, if you ever won the big lottery you would...) is to do something like this and perhaps create a national program for multiple areas.

Don · Mar 1, 2011

icerose said:
Utah started a program for the chronic homeless that has really made a difference. They converted an old hotel into an apartment building with hundreds of apartments. In this they work to help the homeless gain permanent housing. They start off in the apartments, work on getting them cleaned up, feeling secure, and then help them with vocational rehab and help them get a job until they can afford to move out on their own. The newly vacant apartment is then turned over to next person or family. Their goal is that every chronic homeless person is housable. Their next goal is that every ex-homeless person is then employable. They provide mental services as well as food, real shelter, and so forth. It's made a huge difference around here and is different from the bandaid soup runs (which though important are definitely temporary help). Maybe they'll adopt something like that to help solve the problem rather than shuffle it elsewhere?

ETA: Here's a linky. http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=10773734 We're down to half of one percent of the population which is half the national average of chronically homeless so the program is working.

Now that's a plan of attack, not an acceptance of an inevitability. Kudos to the organizers and workers who make that happen.

CDSinex · Mar 1, 2011

Mac H. said:
There was an outcry here a few years ago when a Catholic church announced that assisting the poor was not 'good use of church resources'.

Mac

Actually Matthew 25:31-46 is quite clear. Perhaps the goats should stop preaching the New Testament and start living it.

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

scarletpeaches · Mar 1, 2011

I was actually thinking about James...sorry, I've forgotten the chapter and verse. "Go, be warm and well fed..."

What use is it to sympathise with someone before going on your way and offering no relief, in other words.

/Biblefail

icerose · Mar 1, 2011

tjwriter said:
One my lottery dreams (You know, if you ever won the big lottery you would...) is to do something like this and perhaps create a national program for multiple areas.

One of mine too, though we don't have a lottery. I want to start up farms, and offer real jobs as well as good food to people who wouldn't otherwise and work up that way.

Don said:
Now that's a plan of attack, not an acceptance of an inevitability. Kudos to the organizers and workers who make that happen.

Agreed. I got the chance to participate in the fund raising efforts for the hotel renovation. It is really changing a lot of preconcieved conceptions about the homeless. That half a percent they've already helped were considered unhousable previously.

seun · Mar 1, 2011

icerose said:
Utah started a program for the chronic homeless that has really made a difference. They converted an old hotel into an apartment building with hundreds of apartments.

Maybe they'll adopt something like that to help solve the problem rather than shuffle it elsewhere?

That's a great idea but there's about a zero % chance of it happening in this case.

shadowwalker · Mar 1, 2011

Here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL30442.pdf

"According to the most recent study, in 2004... According to the study, lack of affordable housing led the list of causes of homelessness. In order of frequency, the other cited causes included mental illness and the lack of needed services, substance abuse and the lack of needed services, low-paying jobs, unemployment, domestic violence, poverty and prison release... on average, 23% of homeless people were considered mentally ill; 30% abused substances; 17% were employed; and 10% were veterans..."

So yeah... losers for sure... :sarcasm

William Haskins · Mar 1, 2011

SPMiller said:
We could always round them up every now and then and kill them. Problem solved, right?

seems a little cumbersome when it's obvious that they follow soup. i would think a rolling vat of the stuff that could lead them off the side of a cliff would be sufficient.

Opty · Mar 1, 2011

I thought they already solved this problem on South Park.

We're supposed to bus them to California, right?

darkprincealain · Mar 1, 2011

shadowwalker said:
Here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL30442.pdf

"According to the most recent study, in 2004... According to the study, lack of affordable housing led the list of causes of homelessness. In order of frequency, the other cited causes included mental illness and the lack of needed services, substance abuse and the lack of needed services, low-paying jobs, unemployment, domestic violence, poverty and prison release... on average, 23% of homeless people were considered mentally ill; 30% abused substances; 17% were employed; and 10% were veterans..."

So yeah... losers for sure...

I consider that veterans number suspect. It really raised by 15% in three years? I'm thinking it must have been quite high for most of them.

But to get back on track, I think this information gives a little different perspective on why it's happening on the other side of the pond.

AZ_Dawn · Mar 1, 2011

shadowwalker said:
Here: http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL30442.pdf

"According to the most recent study, in 2004... According to the study, lack of affordable housing led the list of causes of homelessness. In order of frequency, the other cited causes included mental illness and the lack of needed services, substance abuse and the lack of needed services, low-paying jobs, unemployment, domestic violence, poverty and prison release... on average, 23% of homeless people were considered mentally ill; 30% abused substances; 17% were employed; and 10% were veterans..."

So yeah... losers for sure...

Don't you know, these lazy bums need to haul themselves up by the bootstraps? Especially those nutcases; it's not like mental illness is crippling or anything. And those employed homeless people should just work harder at their jobs so they can get raises and stop leeching off the taxpayers.

:sarcasm

AZ "Depressive Who's Sick and Tired of that Damn Bootlaces Crap" Dawn

the bunny hugger · Mar 1, 2011

If they aren't going to change their lifestyle either way I think it is better that they are not hungry rather than hungry.

One way of getting rid of the homeless

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