New Hampshire vs the TSA

Don · Feb 28, 2011

That wacky state with no seatbelt laws and a motto of "Live Free or Die" may be putting some more teeth behind that motto.

Wending its way through the legislative process is an act to make the viewing or touching of genitals or breasts by a government security agent, absent probable cause, a sexual assault. It explicitly includes local, state and federal agents in the definition.

Probable cause is also defined to rule out being on the premises of an airport, possessing a ticket for mass transportation, and driving a motor vehicle on a public way, among other things.

Brief coverage, along with a link to the text of the bill, here.

Michael Wolfe · Feb 28, 2011

Very interesting. What will happen if it passes? Are the sponsors expecting the state's police to arrest TSA agents who violate the statute?

Or, would they just end up using non-government agents to do the exact same procedures?

Bird of Prey · Feb 28, 2011

Oh boy. I may have to move there. A lot of snow, though. Hope the rest of the country finally snaps out of the blind obedience thing. . .

blacbird · Feb 28, 2011

TSA is managing with great skill to piss off just about everybody. A week or so ago, one of our local state legislators refused a TSA patdown in Seattle, and elected to take a ferry back to Alaska (several-day 2000 mile trip) rather than fly. She's a Democrat, generally regarded as one of the more liberal up here. She got applauded by everybody on both sides of the political aisle.

Don · Feb 28, 2011

Michael Wolfe said:
Very interesting. What will happen if it passes? Are the sponsors expecting the state's police to arrest TSA agents who violate the statute?

Or, would they just end up using non-government agents to do the exact same procedures?

Hmm, somebody needs to check the text of the bill and make sure "or their agents" is in there.

Bird of Prey said:
Oh boy. I may have to move there. A lot of snow, though. Hope the rest of the country finally snaps out of the blind obedience thing. . .

Need some more reasons? There are 12 or 16 (I can't remember) free-state affiliated representatives in the house, and IIRC, the area around Keene is a hotbed of "subversive" activity.

blacbird said:
TSA is managing with great skill to piss off just about everybody. A week or so ago, one of our local state legislators refused a TSA patdown in Seattle, and elected to take a ferry back to Alaska (several-day 2000 mile trip) rather than fly. She's a Democrat, generally regarded as one of the more liberal up here. She got applauded by everybody on both sides of the political aisle.

I kept up with that story, and almost started a thread, but left it up to her native son. Ah, well.

Deleted member 42 · Feb 28, 2011

Don said:
Need some more reasons? There are 12 or 16 (I can't remember) free-state affiliated representatives in the house, and IIRC, the area around Keene is a hotbed of "subversive" activity.

You know, that's my home turf, boyo.

Don · Feb 28, 2011

Medievalist said:
You know, that's my home turf, boyo.

I did not know that. Are you familiar with Free Keene?

Deleted member 42 · Feb 28, 2011

Don said:
I did not know that. Are you familiar with Free Keene?

Yep.

Had I graduated from high school, it would have been Keene High; I got my B.A. at Keene State, where my father was a faculty member.

Yes, I can spell nepotism . . .

Yankees don't like to be messed with.

Don · Mar 4, 2011

Texas follows New Hampshire's lead.

Rep. David Simpson (R-Longview) introduced a package of bills into the Texas House of Representatives on Tuesday that would challenge the TSA’s authority in a number of ways. The first bill, HB 1938, prohibits full body scanning equipment in any Texas airport and provides for criminal and civil penalties on any airport operator who installs the equipment. The second bill, HB 1937, criminalizes touching without consent and searches without probable cause.

Williebee · Mar 4, 2011

So, what do you think? TSA gets a leadership change and a change of policy before this finishes working its way through the courts?

Don · Mar 4, 2011

Williebee said:
So, what do you think? TSA gets a leadership change and a change of policy before this finishes working its way through the courts?

I don't see any signs that any of the tenth amendment initiatives are getting any attention from FedGov. They figure when the Supremes rule in their favor it will all go away, and the odds of the Supremes ruling in favor of the states? It is to laugh.

It won't get interesting until the Supremes smack the states down over a couple of these issues, and we see if and how the states respond.

PorterStarrByrd · Mar 4, 2011

I remember when we would have balked at taking our shoes and belts off to board a plane. I remember when we were greeted at the gate as we got off the plane by our friends and relatives. I remember bringing my toilet kit with me in my carry-on because the ailine might lose my luggage

I remember 9-11. everything changed.

Where is the line that can't be crossed now that we have already surrendered so many freedoms?

Will free state originating flights have to land at the international gate now? (I can already understand the requirement for flights from Texas doing so

)

Michael Wolfe · Mar 4, 2011

PorterStarrByrd said:
Where is the line that can't be crossed now that we have already surrendered so many freedoms?

That's a good question. Imo, one of the effects of all of these TSA policies is that it does in fact push the line of acceptability farther and farther.

I don't have much doubt that we've yet to see the most egregious "security" measures the TSA can come up with.

I know that doesn't exactly answer your question, but it's a hard question to answer with any precision.

regdog · Mar 4, 2011

Williebee said:
So, what do you think? TSA gets a leadership change and a change of policy before this finishes working its way through the courts?

At least a policy change if they're smart. Why fight court case after court case when most if not all 50 states will eventually file their own lawsuits?

Diana Hignutt · Mar 4, 2011

PorterStarrByrd said:
I remember when we would have balked at taking our shoes and belts off to board a plane. I remember when we were greeted at the gate as we got off the plane by our friends and relatives. I remember bringing my toilet kit with me in my carry-on because the ailine might lose my luggage

I remember 9-11. everything changed.

Where is the line that can't be crossed now that we have already surrendered so many freedoms?

The line hasn't moved from where it always was. Where the Fourth Amendment left it. It isn't the people that have changed, it's the government. Eisenhower warned us. Kennedy warned us. Everyone else played ball.

One day soon, people are going to have to stand up to this nonsense. The states doing so is a start. It will be very interesting to see what happens. The Supremes will smack this acting up of the states down, and either the people will realize or they won't. If they do. Watch out.

Bird of Prey · Mar 4, 2011

Ah yes, they will have to stand up to it. But the Supremes will not do an automatic smack-down, Diana. Mr. Roberts has done quite a reversal lately re. corporate identity. He was all for it acting as an individual with regard to campaign support awhile back. Then he ostensibly about-faced a few days ago. He's a little humbler as of late and certainly more aware, as they all are, of the dangers of squashing liberty. . . .

benbradley · Mar 4, 2011

PorterStarrByrd said:
...
I remember 9-11. everything changed.

I think that was the day everything accelerated. Things changed with the War On Drugs, and wasn't it Nixon who started that?

Diana Hignutt · Mar 5, 2011

benbradley said:
I think that was the day everything accelerated. Things changed with the War On Drugs, and wasn't it Nixon who started that?

I thought that was Reagan's baby.

Diana Hignutt · Mar 5, 2011

Bird of Prey said:
Ah yes, they will have to stand up to it. But the Supremes will not do an automatic smack-down, Diana. Mr. Roberts has done quite a reversal lately re. corporate identity. He was all for it acting as an individual with regard to campaign support awhile back. Then he ostensibly about-faced a few days ago. He's a little humbler as of late and certainly more aware, as they all are, of the dangers of squashing liberty. . . .

I hope your analysis is the correct one, my friend.

Michael Wolfe · Mar 5, 2011

Diana Hignutt said:
I thought that was Reagan's baby.

Nope, it was Nixon.

Don · Mar 5, 2011

benbradley said:
I think that was the day everything accelerated. Things changed with the War On Drugs, and wasn't it Nixon who started that?

Diana Hignutt said:
I thought that was Reagan's baby.

The term "War on Drugs" was first used by President Richard Nixon on June 17, 1971. Two months later, the Nixon Shock ended gold convertibility at the foreign exchange window.

That dude was a real weiner. And he was from the party that was supposedly for personal and fiscal responsibility. :ROFL:

OTOH, he was proof positive that the wings of the Republicrat bird differ only in their location.

Michael Wolfe · Mar 5, 2011

Don said:
That dude was a real weiner. And he was from the party that was supposedly for personal and fiscal responsibility.

He was also a peace loving quaker.

Don · Mar 5, 2011

Michael Wolfe said:
He was also a peace loving quaker.

Tell that to the short folks in the black pajamas.

Michael Wolfe · Mar 5, 2011

Don said:
Tell that to the short folks in the black pajamas.

Alright, well, at least he wasn't a crook, right?

Don · Mar 5, 2011

Michael Wolfe said:
Alright, well, at least he wasn't a crook, right?

By which standard? What we expect of our neighbors, or what we expect of our politicians?

New Hampshire vs the TSA

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