We will never run out of anything. God will provide all the resources we need forever.

Sadly, a lot of politicians probably believe that resources are limitless.

And God also gave us free will. So if we f*ck it up, it is on us, not God. He might have originally given us enough to survive on, but we are destroying and breeding at an alarming rate.

This just sounds like a pathetic excuse giving us the right to do whatever we want without consequences.

I'm reminded of the preacher on the roof of the church in a flooded neighborhood. He refused the help of his neighbors in a rowboat, the police in a powerboat, and finally, the coast guard in a helicopter, telling each would-be rescuer "God will protect me."

Finally, the church collapsed from the rushing waters, and he drowned. When he came before God, he asked why he had been abandoned in his hour of need.

"I sent you a rowboat, a powerboat, and a helicopter. What were you waiting for?"

Finally, someone who speaks sense!

Tell that to the many civilizations that overused their resources and disappeared almost overnight. Easter Island is a very good example of that. They cut down too many trees and destroyed their crop land and died out within a month I believe. Either way it was an extremely short period of time. I'm sure they figured they'd never run out either.

How many famines, droughts, floods, and general erotion have snuffed out civilizations?

The Sahara desert is another good example of that. It was either Iraq or Iran that had the famous gardens that have long since disappeared into the desert.

Misuse of our resources have led to more death and destruction than probably anything else.

Just goes to show if you don't bother to learn your history you are doomed to repeat it.

The Sahara???

AncientEagle said:

The Sahara???

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The Sahara desert used to be farmland. They've found buried civilizations on the bottom of dunes. It was over farmed and not well taken care of. Soil eroded, the sands formed, and expanded.

ETA: A link http://uk.reuters.com/article/2008/05/08/us-climate-sahara-idUKL0833018820080508

It formed only 4000 years ago and was greatly influenced by human mismanagement. Such as the desert in Maine. Heck, even my area has been ravaged by mankind. I talked about it in another thread. When settlers first came the grass grew to a horse's belly. But due to several factors, the killing of the buffalo, the introduction of sagebrush, and the overgrazing of the land by cattle and sheep it's now barren and hardly supports any life.

Hmm. I was always taught that the Sahara is expanding naturally.

And I thought the whole Easter Island populace disappearance thing was a mystery. Meaning no one knew how or why they left.

Shadow_Ferret said:

Hmm. I was always taught that the Sahara is expanding naturally.

And I thought the whole Easter Island populace disappearance thing was a mystery. Meaning no one knew how or why they left.

Click to expand...

They discovered why last year. They took all the trees out, which ruined the farmland and couldn't keep the sea water at bay which destroyed the crops, which in turn starved all the people out. I will try to dig up the link.

ETA: Here it is. http://www.visitchile.net/chile-guide/easter-island.html

Shadow_Ferret said:

Hmm. I was always taught that the Sahara is expanding naturally.

And I thought the whole Easter Island populace disappearance thing was a mystery. Meaning no one knew how or why they left.

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They didn't disappear. There were thousands of people there when the Europeans arrived.

Hmm. Maybe the mystery was why they build those stupid heads, then.

icerose said:

snip
It was either Iraq or Iran that had the famous gardens that have long since disappeared into the desert.

Misuse of our resources have led to more death and destruction than probably anything else.

Just goes to show if you don't bother to learn your history you are doomed to repeat it.

Click to expand...

Are you referring to the hanging gardens of Babylon? They were destroyed by earthquakes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanging_Gardens_of_Babylon

icerose said:

Tell that to the many civilizations that overused their resources and disappeared almost overnight. Easter Island is a very good example of that. They cut down too many trees and destroyed their crop land and died out within a month I believe. Either way it was an extremely short period of time. I'm sure they figured they'd never run out either.

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Yeah, but they were heathens, weren't they? Of course God didn't let them get away with it!

Those fundamentalists never cease to amaze me...

Shadow_Ferret said:

Hmm. Maybe the mystery was why they build those stupid heads, then.

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The mystery is that every odd-looking archaeological item has been declared a mystery at some time or other.

If the mystery angle won't fly then its an "untold story."

I guess you could combine them:

"The Mystery of the Untold story of Easter Island"

The mystery could be why there is no untold story. Or that the people who neglected to tell the story, might have just left.

To expand on what I've said before: What is a resource?

Why, it's an arrangement of matter in a useful sequence! When one uses a resource, they are (at WORST) releasing some of that matter in the form of energy and waste heat. At best, they're altering the structure slightly (forging iron from ore, for example).

But once we have used that resource, it still exists in one form or another. It does not vanish into the ether. Just because we have, say, a load of cars in a junkyard does not mean the steel, aluminum, copper, and what have you has suddenly become non-existent. No, the cars have just broken because people figure that they can make more money by making things fall apart at a predetermined rate.

Currently, we mine new resources from the ground because it is cheaper than recycling. As our techniques of manipulating the sequences of matter grow in skill and complexity, it will become easier and cheaper to recycle.

The hardest things to recycle would be fuels, which turn parts of themselves into waste heat and energy when we use them. Fortunately, fuels are not the only source of energy in this solar system. (Cough, solar power, cough cough).

So, God won't provide all the resources we need forever. If we're smart and just a little lucky, we will.

Now, if recylcing never becomes cheaper than making new stuff, then we're fucked.

People like Beard frighten me, and what frightens me even more is there are fringe righties who believe him. No need to lock the doors at night, if god doesn't want a break-in, there won't be one. No need to go to the doctor, god'll take care of that too. Money for the poor? Obviously they did something to offend god or they're lazy, who cares about the kids.

Yeah, the whole concept of predetermination is scary and anemically to free will.

...and common sense, really.

Besides that, it's okay if we run out, because that means the Rapture is nigh.

Maxx said:

I guess you could combine them:

"The Mystery of the Untold story of Easter Island"

The mystery could be why there is no untold story. Or that the people who neglected to tell the story, might have just left.

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Or maybe they just suddenly realized how embarrassingly stupid the heads looked and they all moved to another island and agreed never to speak of it again.

This is why this country theoretically has a separation of church and state, and should have a practical one.

Religion and faith, by and large, take something that is predetermined and follow it. Faith does not need evidence, because it's not based on the provable. Even us bitter athiests have some faith...it's impossible to really prove that most people are fundamentally good, but I believe it because that's my faith in humanity.

The problem is, faith operates on a different level from...ya know...reality. That's why we have logic and science, which operate without a presumed basis, then work with what the world gives us to create something that is reasonable.

While we should not give up our faith - as it is responsible for a lot of good in the world - we shouldn't allow it to take the place of our logic and reason. But we should also not allow logic and reason to blind us to the possibilities of hope. Hence, if I was nothing but faith, I'd believe that the world would work just fine without guns or swords or any weapon ever. Cause people are fundamentally good. But that's just my FAITH, not my logic. My logic states that...well, there are still some people who might be assholes, so it's better to be safe than sorry.

Logically, it makes sense to castrate people with unfavorable genetic conditions. But my faith that says that human life - no matter its permutation - is precious and unique reacts with disgust at that concept!


As a very wise author once said: "Faith and reason are the shoes on our feet. We can get further on both than we can with just one."

PinkAmy said:

People like Beard frighten me, and what frightens me even more is there are fringe righties who believe him.

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What should really frighten you is that formerly fringe positions are gaining acceptance, and that things considered to be laughable only a few years ago are becoming mainstream -- at least on the right.

This is what comes of thinking of God as Santa Claus.

Zoombie said:

This is why this country theoretically has a separation of church and state, and should have a practical one.

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I ask myself this all the time. Additionally, the government does not treat all religions and non-religions equally. The country would be a better place if there was true separation of church and state--and our children would be better educated because there wouldn't be segments of the population discounting science in the name of religion.