On the L - cover critique

BrokenSword · Feb 8, 2011

Following up from the original cover critique thread, I've been re-thinking my cover and have some further possibilities which I'd like any and all to weigh in on. I'm posting a compilation that is numbered, so please let me know which is your favorite and why if possible.

Thanks.

Michael aka BrokenSword

JerseyGirl1962 · Feb 9, 2011

BrokenSword said:
Following up from the original cover critique thread, I've been re-thinking my cover and have some further possibilities which I'd like any and all to weigh in on. I'm posting a compilation that is numbered, so please let me know which is your favorite and why if possible.

Thanks.

Michael aka BrokenSword

I'm not a graphic designer, and I don't play one on TV :tongue

, so take this FWIW...

#1 - I kind of like this one, but I think the train should be headed straight ahead instead of to the side (like it's headed straight at me). I like the background color but feel it should be a darker color (think: sinister). These two changes would make me think thriller/suspense, and that's what this is, right? I really like the font on this one, and altho the color on your name is a bit hard to read, if you decide to darken the background color like I suggested, this probably wouldn't be a problem.

I'll admit that I don't really care for the pic; the person is too far away. If there's some kind of significance, it's lost on me. (But then again, maybe it's just me, lol.)

With that being said, if you decide to go with the pic anyway, I don't think you should go with the skinny ones, #4 & #6; maybe because it makes the person look even more miniscule than the full-on shot. I do dig the dark marble effect on those covers, though.

If I were go with one of the pic covers, I'd go with either #3 or #5, with my preference being #5, despite the smallish font of your name (altho I do like that font). Hard to say why I don't prefer #3, but I don't care for those banner thingies (don't you love my technical terms? :tongue

) on the top and bottom.

Hope I've been of some (limited) help.

Nancy

LfB · Feb 9, 2011

I'm not a graphic designer, and I don't play one on TV , so take this FWIW...

Same here But I do like looking at covers, so what the hey.

I agree with JG re:1. I'd also think your name should be darker or be set on a band or something to make it 'pop' more.

I like 5 but was thinking the text could go vertical instead of horizontal, kinda like 4, but without so much empty/white space around the words. That said, I like 5, as-is though, maybe, bring the person in the back up just a bit?

From the choices given, number 3 is the winner. Everything's written out clearly and in a large enough print. It's simple and straight to the point.

BrokenSword · Feb 9, 2011

thanks!

I made comments to you inline, below, Nancy!

JerseyGirl1962 said:
I'm not a graphic designer, and I don't play one on TV , so take this FWIW...

>>>heh, I think we'd all like to play that role! Part of why I like self-pubbing!

#1 - I kind of like this one, but I think the train should be headed straight ahead instead of to the side (like it's headed straight at me). I like the background color but feel it should be a darker color (think: sinister). These two changes would make me think thriller/suspense, and that's what this is, right? I really like the font on this one, and altho the color on your name is a bit hard to read, if you decide to darken the background color like I suggested, this probably wouldn't be a problem.

>>>The only problem I see with that is if you have the train straight on, it might look parked, no? I could cobble up a train which has it's tail curving, to show the movement aspect heading outward and straight on, but I'd have to cut the fade effect. Something to work on, though.

I'll admit that I don't really care for the pic; the person is too far away. If there's some kind of significance, it's lost on me. (But then again, maybe it's just me, lol.)

>>>no, it's not just you! There is a HUGE significance but I if I told you, I'd have to kill you, and well, can't do that when you're being so nice and reviewing my proto covers! (Actually, this cover shot is a direct scene in the book and is symbolic of what I was trying to accomplish.) Now, the reason the kid is far back is to create a tunnel effect, to draw the eye of the viewer in. As long as you can tell it's a kid and his blue, rubber ball, I think that part works.

With that being said, if you decide to go with the pic anyway, I don't think you should go with the skinny ones, #4 & #6; maybe because it makes the person look even more miniscule than the full-on shot. I do dig the dark marble effect on those covers, though.

>>>my son will love hearing that as the dark marble effect is actually darkened, scratched-up steel and that was his idea. He generally isn't liking the pic at all and the train cover + the two 'slice of pic' covers are his doing. That's partly why I'm asking for other opinions; so I don't get narrow-minded!

If I were go with one of the pic covers, I'd go with either #3 or #5, with my preference being #5, despite the smallish font of your name (altho I do like that font). Hard to say why I don't prefer #3, but I don't care for those banner thingies (don't you love my technical terms? ) on the top and bottom.

>>>Number 5 is more or less the original with a font+font location change. A number of people thought the full-length pic worked better than having a dark border (which was done to pull out the text as I wanted the font color to be symmetrical and the light color of the pic at the top doesn't allow for this. Hence, the darkened marble/steel slice-pic covers. I wasn't sure I'd like the 'banner thingies' either (I think you coined a new term; we should adopt this when critiquing all covers on the forum, hey? ) but thought I'd add them and see what others thought.

Hope I've been of some (limited) help.

>>>you've been of tremendous help, Nancy; I really appreciate your comments about each. Helps me zero in on effectiveness and bookshelf curb appeal. Thank you! Nancy

Jamiekswriter · Feb 9, 2011

I like #1 and #3 the best.

For #1, though, I would make "a novel by Broken Sword" a darker color because it's kinda lost in the steam.

I like #3 because it has more color and appears to "pop" more and I like how the black borders on the top and bottom frame the picture.

BrokenSword · Feb 9, 2011

thanks!

Inlines below, Aud:

Aud said:
Same here But I do like looking at covers, so what the hey.

>>>yeah, so do I; got some sort of graphics bug inside me and the writing process is enhanced when I get to try and put images to my words! Thanks for helping this process!

I agree with JG re:1. I'd also think your name should be darker or be set on a band or something to make it 'pop' more.

>>>I can see that. I don't tend to see the author's name as important as the title, but that's just me. And I know that's not the best thinking for marketing!

I like 5 but was thinking the text could go vertical instead of horizontal, kinda like 4, but without so much empty/white space around the words. That said, I like 5, as-is though, maybe, bring the person in the back up just a bit?

>>>I can cobble up a 'closer view of the subject' and see how it looks. I explained my reasoning for putting the kid at the back, in my comments to JG (Nancy) above.

>>>I did try several vertical sets and some looked fine, some did not. I wasn't sure about doing this type of vertical, either, hence I'm getting other opinions. Using a vertical placement for the font in #5 might get introduce more confusion though as I don't have a great amount of 'text space' to work with where the background of the pic is dark. I'll think on this one and cobble something up, though.

From the choices given, number 3 is the winner. Everything's written out clearly and in a large enough print. It's simple and straight to the point.

>>>That's part of what I like about that cover choice too; it's clear and concise. I guess I'm trying to find the balance between art and function, so all factions will like it! My son is giving me input and he tends to like a more minimalist approach, some of which I concede would show the vitals better but some that are too sterile for my taste. I tell him; it doesn't really matter if it's a bad cover as long as it catches attention, though I'd still like to be proud of seeing my cover AND have some attention toward it, you know?

Thanks again, Aud, for helping out!

Michael

BrokenSword · Feb 9, 2011

thanks!

Thanks, Jamie! Duly noted. I've been fooling around with a darker cover version, so the steel text shows up more. Will post when I have a couple of variations. It's interesting to hear the 'whys' when comparing covers as I didn't expect some comments and others, were also thoughts I'd been considering. Michael

Jamiekswriter said:
I like #1 and #3 the best.

For #1, though, I would make "a novel by Broken Sword" a darker color because it's kinda lost in the steam.

I like #3 because it has more color and appears to "pop" more and I like how the black borders on the top and bottom frame the picture.

DoctorMandaBenson · Feb 9, 2011

I prefer 1 and 3. I think I would prefer 3 with the slightly translucent darker areas used on 2 and 1. Kind of like the grittiness of 1. Perhaps you could use transparency gradients to overlay the train and the image of the interior of the train, and having one focus above and one below with the text on a band in the middle?

Have you tried using different fonts? A sans-serif font I think would look more striking.

JerseyGirl1962 · Feb 10, 2011

>>>The only problem I see with that is if you have the train straight on, it might look parked, no? I could cobble up a train which has it's tail curving, to show the movement aspect heading outward and straight on, but I'd have to cut the fade effect. Something to work on, though.

Good point - hadn’t thought of it that way. Still like the train, though.

>>>no, it's not just you! There is a HUGE significance but I if I told you, I'd have to kill you, and well, can't do that when you're being so nice and reviewing my proto covers! (Actually, this cover shot is a direct scene in the book and is symbolic of what I was trying to accomplish.) Now, the reason the kid is far back is to create a tunnel effect, to draw the eye of the viewer in. As long as you can tell it's a kid and his blue, rubber ball, I think that part works.

Hah! But I have to say one thing: he’s holding a ball?

>>>Number 5 is more or less the original with a font+font location change. A number of people thought the full-length pic worked better than having a dark border (which was done to pull out the text as I wanted the font color to be symmetrical and the light color of the pic at the top doesn't allow for this. Hence, the darkened marble/steel slice-pic covers. I wasn't sure I'd like the 'banner thingies' either (I think you coined a new term; we should adopt this when critiquing all covers on the forum, hey? ) but thought I'd add them and see what others thought.

Hmm...guess I’ll have to trademark that term. Oh, wait, I think I’ve got it: Banner Thingiestm

>>>you've been of tremendous help, Nancy; I really appreciate your comments about each. Helps me zero in on effectiveness and bookshelf curb appeal. Thank you! Nancy

You’re very welcome. I think they’re all very well done covers; IMHO, very professional looking.

Nancy

smoothseas · Feb 10, 2011

And yet another vote for #1.

LaceWing · Feb 10, 2011

I like the white corner on #2. I also like that area of light is circular.

the bunny hugger · Feb 10, 2011

I think #5 looks the most like a "real" book you would see in a bookstore. Based on it I would expect something dark with a literary tone.

CheyElizabeth · Feb 10, 2011

1 and 2 are my favorites. The rest scream 'self published'.

BrokenSword · Feb 10, 2011

thanks

Thanks, DoctorManda; Not sure of the text being in the center, but I'll cobble it up and take a look. That's the nice thing with layers (PS, etc) in that you can easily change without destroying. I have played with different fonts, thinking the 'block' type would sit better but I didn't like that effect. Some I've tried to use as an 'engraved' look, but the jury is out on whether I'll post that example up. Seeing as to how a few like the train aspect, I'm going to post up a darkened version; it did add imho, so we'll see. Thanks again for the looksee. Michael

DoctorMandaBenson said:
I prefer 1 and 3. I think I would prefer 3 with the slightly translucent darker areas used on 2 and 1. Kind of like the grittiness of 1. Perhaps you could use transparency gradients to overlay the train and the image of the interior of the train, and having one focus above and one below with the text on a band in the middle?

Have you tried using different fonts? A sans-serif font I think would look more striking.

BrokenSword · Feb 10, 2011

duly noted

This one is getting more favor than I'd originally expected. I'm seeing that I have two basic themes in that one is more symbolic and gritty (both work for the actual story) and one that has shall we say a more emotional bent to it? That is, I think there's more 'passion' in the color and pic ones than in the train symbology. Both are true to the book, however, so I probably need to determine which effect is more suitable. Thanks smoothseas!

smoothseas said:
And yet another vote for #1.

BrokenSword · Feb 10, 2011

thanks

Thanks for looking and recording your vote, LaceWing. This is another variation my son wanted to take a look at (though he hates the picture in general). I originally had a lighting effect through a PS filter that would make this scene of the interior of an L car more cavernous, to force the focus down toward the subject as well as add depth re the car an pic. So, that's where the circular lighting roof came into effect. This one is actually a desaturated version of the original pic, but I added color back for the boy and his ball. Not sure that is easy to see when the jpg is small. I must say, all the covers look much better full screen, but I had too many prototypes to post for feasibility, I think.

LaceWing said:
I like the white corner on #2. I also like that area of light is circular.

BrokenSword · Feb 10, 2011

bunny: I think you're the first to nail the story's undertones correctly. Not exactly 'dark' but definitely on that track. The basic premise is supposed to be reminiscent of '12 Angry Men' in that there is minimal action and more dialog that shows a shift in attitudes and ideals. The L is the stage for all this, though there is the dark tone to which you alluded and a surface story to carry the dialog. My style is definitely literary, and your comment made me smile. Sometimes, you second guess yourself until another sees the painting the same way you do. When I was out at the drugstore the other day, I perused their books for sale and seriously; there was perhaps a handful that 'caught my eye' and didn't look either too confusing, complex, or just plain dull. I figure art is so subjective that you're never going to rope all the prospects in and you aim for a majority at best. Not even sure that is possible because of the subjectivity. Michael

the bunny hugger said:
I think #5 looks the most like a "real" book you would see in a bookstore. Based on it I would expect something dark with a literary tone.

BrokenSword · Feb 10, 2011

in the eye of the beholder

As noted to bunny one post back, noting what is currently selling at my local drugstore re fiction, I'd have to say more than 60% of the covers would fall into the category of 'invisible'. Art is too subjective to get any consensus, imo. Just two posts back, we have a poster who thinks number 3 is what is typically seen in a bookstore (I agree) and then you feel the same screams self pubbed. I think that about sums up how difficult it is to pin down the buying public. But, that's why I posted; to get an idea of what people are thinking in this current time re book covers. You and my son would get along just fine, though! Thanks for the looksee, CheyE. Much appreciated. Michael

CheyElizabeth said:
1 and 2 are my favorites. The rest scream 'self published'.

BrokenSword · Feb 10, 2011

eye test

Thinking about the comment CheyE noted above, I thought to look at the current NYT bestsellers and see how a couple of my prototypes looked mixed in. Any comments welcome.

I think the thought that comes to mind is that my covers are not nearly busy enough nor trumpet my name loud enough! Then again, I never wanted to approach writing this way, though I know it's the norm. I guess I wanted the picture to say a thousand words...

Michael

CheyElizabeth · Feb 10, 2011

That's a great idea - comparing to best selling covers. In that example, I like the bottom right one the best.

I think the one thing I don't like about "typical" self-published books is how the title is in a separate block of a single color, and not printed on top of the picture. I was also going to say it looks more professional to have big thick fonts instead of the serif font you used, but that idea just got nixed when I see that several best selling titles also use serif font.

I guess it's really hard to pin down what makes a great cover.

BrokenSword · Feb 10, 2011

ah, I see now

I see now where you were coming form, CheyE; it's the block of text/color not on the graphic, hey? Seriously, it's as easy to do as any aspect of creating your own cover. I'll post a couple more prototypes, even do one that mirrors the one you like, and you can check back in and tell me what you think, okay? The thing I noticed is that my cover(s) seem to be less filled with text (except for the 'the help' one).

Thanks for a second look. Below, some further iterations. Any opinions? The first has the camera zooming in on the original pic that some can't see the kid at the back, the second has the kid actually moved to about mid-car and therefore closer/larger as a subject, the fourth is the 'slice pic' with different font styling, and the last is a new one based on the train idea.

Michael

valeriec80 · Feb 11, 2011

Okay, wow. Bringing the boy forward really works for me. But I'm still not crazy about the black blocks of text for your title. The problem really is that picture, because it's next to impossible to get a color that's readable over it. Since you were able to pull the boy forward, I'm assuming he's a separate piece than the train interior? What if you tried playing with the brightness/contrast of the interior piece? Maybe you could find a happy medium where the interior is still visible, but it's not making it impossible to read your title, and making the boy even more visible.

(Until now, I never noticed there was a boy in the picture at all.)

BrokenSword · Feb 11, 2011

thanks, Valerie

Thanks for coming back, Valerie. I've been playing with alternates and have one without the black bars. See what you think. I ended up making the vignette arc from the left (where it already was established) and over to the right. To help out the text, I also added an artistic underline. Tell me what you think.

The problem with having to reduce the graphics to less than printable size is that the full effect (including the objects within such as the boy in this case) aren't as easily identified. I have to take this into account though when I create as I'm working in a larger than life screen/canvas and using RGB instead of printing inks. I always hope to get a close approximation though. And I agree with the background/text problem; I originally had the text on the busy upper section and it was lost. That's why I added a border wherein the text sidled both edges. Then came the black bars per another poster's suggestion and in looking through some novels I have around here. Maybe this next iteration makes the grade?

Michael

Soccer Mom · Feb 11, 2011

I like the progression here. The kid was really lost in the previous versions. Bringing him to the foreground really makes him the focus. We can see his bleak expression and the ball he's dropped. Before, all we could see was maybe kinda sorta a kid in the back of the train. Now we have a sense of who he is.

LfB · Feb 11, 2011

If you do go with the train idea, I like the last one in post 21 with the city background, though I think the title should move up a teensy bit and be larger/thicker. It's the same font used in the other cover examples, but on this one, it looks kind of elongated and it doesn't work for me, personally.

I like the progression here. The kid was really lost in the previous versions. Bringing him to the foreground really makes him the focus. We can see his bleak expression and the ball he's dropped. Before, all we could see was maybe kinda sorta a kid in the back of the train. Now we have a sense of who he is.

Soccer Mom's said what I was thinking exactly.

On the L - cover critique

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