"Skip intro": first impressions of agency websites

Chuck Dickens said:

What a wonderful forum this is. There's so much information and experience here. You are an admirable crew.

I'm evaluating literary agencies for my first novel submission. A few initial impressions of agencies' websites:

• "Tasha graduated in 2004 with a B.A. in Art History, is looking for YA steampunk": Many agencies display photos of new agents, young people with, one may assume, limited life experience. The suggestion is that these agencies prefer submissions that reflect current trends and fashions. Since I'm a chronologically mature writer whose work, I hope, will be readable ten and twenty years from now, I'm avoiding such agencies.
  
  If your book isn't YA steampunk, why would you consider sending to her your MS? I don't think young is necessarily bad. I'm close the 50 and I did not use age as a factor. With youth comes an enthusiasm you might not get from someone who has been in the business a while. A newer agent might have the luxury of using the agency's resources, and a client list that she's building, so she has more time to devote to your work.
  
• "Skip intro": Flash animation is not really helpful. I always skip the rotating logo, the explosive animation of book covers, etc., and I would guess that most of you do so, too. I think that this is evidence of an agency that is not extremely Internet-savvy, which threw a pile of money at a web developer based on a Flash-ily impressive presentation. I'm avoiding these agencies too.
  
  Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean other people don't like creative introductions.
  
• "R___ has a Ph.D. from Harvard...": As a lowly possessor of a B.A. from a mediocre Midwestern U., this agent is clearly out of my league, and knows it. I am very impressed, and will submit elsewhere.
  
  . Why are you turning your nose down on agents who are more educated than you and more importantly, why are you assuming that the agent will care if you "only have a BA". That's letting your own prejudices get in the way.
  
• "We are not accepting submissions at this time." Why do you have a publicly accessible website?
  
  Possibly because the website isn't just there for your purposes of submitting your manuscript. Believe it or not, there are other reasons to have websites.

Thanks for tolerating my admittedly-inexperienced opinions, and thanks in advance for any additional comments.

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Welcome to AW. Interesting first post.
From the sound of your post, you seem to have a lot of preconceived notions and prejudices. You'll likely have a short list of agents to query with those artificial standards. Good luck .

I think you're doing an awful lot of jumping to conclusions, and the only person you're hurting is yourself. By avoiding all these agents for illogical reasons, you are getting rid of many options for yourself as an author for representation.

To address your post:

Young does not necessarily equal inexperience. Nor does being young mean one has no taste, no sense of a bigger picture, and only wants trendy things in the moment. You'd be stunned by the professionalism and intelligence of these young agents if you met them in person. Also, don't submit to an agent who doesn't represent your genre.

So because an agent doesn't know how to build a website, she must not be able to use the internet to sell her clients' work? That makes absolutely no sense. An agent is a good agent because she has excellent industry contacts and knows how to negotiate a contract. What does liking or not liking flash have to do with any of that?

At least we can say of you that you are equal opportunity in your judgments. A lack of credentials annoys you. As does a plethora. No one can please you. Also, um, maybe when people list their education and resume, they aren't doing it to rub it in your face. Maybe they are just listing their education and resume so you have information about the person. Maybe it isn't personal and they aren't judging you the way you judge everyone else. Hard to say, but I think I'm right, considering they don't even know you.

"At this time" doesn't mean "forever". They aren't accepting queries now, they will likely accept queries later. That's why.

So let me get this straight:

You don't like agents who, knowing nothing more than their general age and interests, you perceive as having not enough experience or education (though TASHA in this scenario, having graduated in 2004, might be a 30 year old with seven years at an agency under her belt - and just who do you think most of the editors are?)

You don't like agents who you perceive as having TOO MUCH experience and education (Does a phD from a good school mean a person is an automatic a-hole snob? Might it not mean that they are hardworking, sharp and talented? Don't you WANT an agent who is those things?)

You don't like agencies who spend money on web designers (They have to be computer programmers as well as agents?)

You don't like agencies who have websites explaining their policies clearly (... uhh)

And I can surmise, since you are doing your research seemingly based only on websites, that you also wouldn't like an agency that didn't have a website at all.

Sounds to me like you are just stalling. How about you figure out which agents are reputable and selling a lot in your area (easy enough to do with QueryTracker and similar) - and stop performing webomancy.

I hope the OP was a subtle attempt at satire. If so, good job. If not, good God.

You're welcome.

And if I may, I'd like to offer one last piece of advice. Your attitude is not going to help you get an agent. You are approaching this search as if agents are somehow the enemy. Maybe it's so you can lessen the pain of being rejected later on (because we all get rejected) by thinking, "Well he was a pompous jerk anyway . . ." But I don't think this is going to help you in the long run.

Try to change your outlook. I have met a lot of agents. And I can tell you I have yet to meet a pompous jerk. Oh yes, I am certain such agents exist. But 9 times out of 10 the agents I meet are passionate about their job, their clients, and most of all, books. They read like crazy. They are also the champions of authors, they just ADORE authors, are in awe of what they can create. Try to remember this. Agents are not the enemy. They are on the same team we are. Truly. And for the most part, they're pretty swell people.

Jennifer_Laughran said:

And I can surmise, since you are doing your research seemingly based only on websites, that you also wouldn't like an agency that didn't have a website at all.
.

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Seriously Dickens, lose the attitude. Very few writers have agents beating down their door, begging to work with them. I'm sure when you start querying, you are going to appreciate all the agents who don't make judgments about you based artificial ideas that have nothing to do with reality.

You might want to read some posts in different sections of the forum to get an idea where people are at in their writing, querying, and publishing processes.

I think we're being a bit hard on Chuck. He's trying to get to know the 'bidness.'

Chuck, I think lots of people share your first impressions of younger or highly credentialed agents. The search for agents can be intimidating and overwhelming. The more you learn, the less mysterious this person called "agent" will be.

Some of the folks here had their ire ignited by your post, true. Mostly we're all here trying to help others who are, like us, hoping to move ahead through the fog. Hang in there, keep your mind open, and you'll probably be surprised by the world of agents and how they come in all shapes and sizes. Most of us struggled to find the right agent and we really do like our agents. It's business, though. It's not romance.

Chuck Dickens said:

What a wonderful forum this is. There's so much information and experience here. You are an admirable crew.

I'm evaluating literary agencies for my first novel submission. A few initial impressions of agencies' websites:

• "Tasha graduated in 2004 with a B.A. in Art History, is looking for YA steampunk": Many agencies display photos of new agents, young people with, one may assume, limited life experience. The suggestion is that these agencies prefer submissions that reflect current trends and fashions. Since I'm a chronologically mature writer whose work, I hope, will be readable ten and twenty years from now, I'm avoiding such agencies.

I think you're looking at this the wrong way. Yes, someone might be looking for a trend, but publishers buy what readers are reading, and the same goes for agents. You don't have to write a book that follows whatever trend is out there, but it's not like these agents are only taking that type of book, either. And sometimes, I think it might just be a personal taste thing instead of chasing a trend. Kind of like I'm in the mood for a good old fashioned paranormal suspense with ghosts at the moment.

Also, being readable in ten to twenty years has nothing to do with trends. It has to do with writing a really good book, and then another really good book, etc., and either hoping to keep your backlist active, or becoming a breakout hit to the extent that you become a household name. We can't predict trends, but one could argue that everyone in that latter category was at least part of one (even if they started it).

• "Skip intro": Flash animation is not really helpful. I always skip the rotating logo, the explosive animation of book covers, etc., and I would guess that most of you do so, too. I think that this is evidence of an agency that is not extremely Internet-savvy, which threw a pile of money at a web developer based on a Flash-ily impressive presentation. I'm avoiding these agencies too.

Why would you avoid this? A lot of agency websites aren't particularly appealing, but you can just skip the intro. Also, I for one sometimes like the flash intros with book covers and have been known to actually watch them. Even if it seems antiquated, most agents aren't spending a great deal of time or money on their websites. There are plenty of great agents who don't have good sites--or don't have sites at all.

• "R___ has a Ph.D. from Harvard...": As a lowly possessor of a B.A. from a mediocre Midwestern U., this agent is clearly out of my league, and knows it. I am very impressed, and will submit elsewhere.

I'm not trying to sound snarky here, I promise, but I want to know. If you had a doctor who had a MD from a big school, would you turn him down for a nurse practitioner? Would you turn down a lawyer who went to Harvard in favor of the advice of someone who just finished their law undergrad?

Do you, in other parts of your life, see anyone with a higher degree than you as being arrogant if they say it? The agent is giving his credentials. Those are impressive credentials that would tell a lot of people about his skills. Would you rather he just leave it off? Or tell where he got his BA and leave it at that in order to not make anyone with a lesser degree feel bad?

When you apply for a job, you list the assets that make you look good, the things that make you stand out from the crowd. This is the same thing agents wish to do. They want writers to know that they're qualified. To say "I have a degree from Harvard" doesn't automatically make someone a jerk. Now, if you talked to him on the phone, or he emailed you, and he seemed incredibly pretentious and talked down to you the whole time, this might be an issue, but this is nothing, really. And truthfully, all it does is make you sound insecure about your own schooling.

• "We are not accepting submissions at this time." Why do you have a publicly accessible website?

Because sometimes agents close for submissions and then reopen later. JABberwocky closes a couple of times a year. Also, information about these agents is available in numerous sources--books, websites, etc., and this is one way to make sure that someone researching the agency is aware that they aren't taking submissions. If they just didn't have a site, anyone with Writer's Market would have no way of knowing they were closed.

Besides, agencies do more than just promote themselves to writers. They promote their authors and they might deal in subsidiary rights. I've seen quite a few agencies that say "If you are interested in rights to any of these books, please contact us." They don't exist solely for our benefit. And to be honest, why NOT have a publicly accessible website? All you have to do as a writer is see that they're closed and mark them off the list. I don't see how this is a major inconvenience.

Thanks for tolerating my admittedly-inexperienced opinions, and thanks in advance for any additional comments.

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This just seems very much like you are jumping to conclusions to me, and honestly none of the conclusions seem particularly valid.

The only bit I can agree with is the Skip Intro thing. Pointless Flash intros are widely acknowledged amongst web designers as poor design (and Flash in general is not a good idea to convey textual information on a web site). But hey, at least there is a Skip Intro button in most cases--it's worse when you have to sit through it with no recourse.

Unfortunately, the situation is probably something like:

1. Busy Agency hires Cheap Web Designer to make Agency Web Site.
2. Cheap Web Designer repurposes an existing web site template with pointless Flash animations (oftentimes bought from a template site).
3. Busy Agency can do basic HTML but has no idea how to work with Flash, so they're stuck with what they've got, and don't have time to futz around with it.
4. Potential Clients load Busy Agency Web Site and groan at Flash intro.

Such is the interwebz, my friend.

Welcome, Chuck!

If you're basing your querying on the points you raised above, then I guess you won't be querying the agency that reps me, which is a shame, because they're one of the top dealmaking agencies in the US.

In terms of agents, if TASHA were a guy, then she'd pretty much describe my agent (I'm pretty sure he'd be open to a bit of YA steampunk). He's young (and younger than me), has a picture on the website, and yes, he's Ivy league educated. He's also sharp as a tack, is totally down to earth, gives bang on critique, and responds to all my calls and emails lightning fast. He got me an offer from one of the Big 6 two weeks after going on sub.

Don't let preconceived ideas fool you. I agree, many agency websites are crap. It should be the least of your worries. Focus your search on finding out who reps the kind of writers you respect, who's selling what, and who they're selling it to. Use Bewares and Background Checks here at AW to avoid the sharks, Publishers Marketplace for real time deals (subscription required, but worth it, even if you just subscribe for a month or two), and places like Agent Query and Querytracker for the nuts and bolts.

Good luck!

Why worry about any of that? The only thing that matters with an agent is how many books she has placed with top publishers. You read these books to get a feel for type and style and tone the agent likes, and you query or not.

It doesn't matter if the agent has the worst website in history, kicks poodles for please, and attends AA meetings three times a week, even if she's never tasted alcohol. It's her track record with publishers that counts.

Jamesaritchie said:

Why worry about any of that? The only thing that matters with an agent is how many books she has placed with top publishers. You read these books to get a feel for type and style and tone the agent likes, and you query or not.

It doesn't matter if the agent has the worst website in history, kicks poodles for please, and attends AA meetings three times a week, even if she's never tasted alcohol. It's her track record with publishers that counts.

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Poodle kicking would be a plus, in my book.

I do think some websites come of as unfriendlier than others. And some are difficult to navigate but I don't think that has anything to do with the literary agents themselves and more to do with thier website designers.

And I do skip the intro. The animations people put on things are usually annoying to difficult to display/screw up my computer.

The only thing that would annoy me with an agency website would be a kind of aloof obtuseness implying that the agency is 'above' mere mortals. I've only ever seen that with a couple of sites, thankfully, and for those the submission requirements (and in one case, even the names of the agents) were impossible to find. Didn't exactly leave a good impression on me.

I'm on a round of submissions at the moment, and the vast majority of sites I've looked at recently have been friendly, pretty well designed, and practically scream that the agency concerned is lovely and approachable.

Chuck Dickens said:

[*]"R___ has a Ph.D. from Harvard...": As a lowly possessor of a B.A. from a mediocre Midwestern U., this agent is clearly out of my league, and knows it. I am very impressed, and will submit elsewhere.

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Are you telling me my Ph. D. husband is too good for B.A. me? That's a little insulting.

And ditto what Jamesaritchie said.