Can anyone tell me what current hand grenade casings/mechanisms are made from?
I need some that are non-magnetic/non-ferrous
I need some that are non-magnetic/non-ferrous
Hand grenades
- Thread starter waylander
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Hey, Waylander--
Grenades today are made of the same type of steel bombs and artillery shells are made of--it's designed to fragment into hundreds of sharp pieces and shred anyone within the blast radius.
I suppose you could achieve the same effect with some sort of ceramic, but it would require specialized equipment to manufacture and would probably be very expensive.
For what it's worth!
HN
Grenades today are made of the same type of steel bombs and artillery shells are made of--it's designed to fragment into hundreds of sharp pieces and shred anyone within the blast radius.
I suppose you could achieve the same effect with some sort of ceramic, but it would require specialized equipment to manufacture and would probably be very expensive.
For what it's worth!
HN
a "defensive" grenade is made out of thick steel, so that it puts shrapnel everywhere. They're "defensive" cause its a good idea to have something to hide behind when you throw one.
And "offensive" grenade is made out of much thinner steel or aluminum so that there's less shrapnel. They get you with a concussive wave.
I'd make them from aluminum, or bronze. And thinking about it, you could probably get away with glass too.
And "offensive" grenade is made out of much thinner steel or aluminum so that there's less shrapnel. They get you with a concussive wave.
I'd make them from aluminum, or bronze. And thinking about it, you could probably get away with glass too.
Thanks for the info.
My guys (UK Special forces with government backing) are not going to have time to specially make their grenades. They need to take whatever is currently available.
Don't listen to them waylander. Listen to someone who has actually thrown a few. Modern grenades have a thin steel shell (about the thickness of car sheet metal) inside that shell are ball bearings which provide the shrapnel and a much more even dispersement than frangible shrapnel. The two guys above are about fifty years out of date, I know ball-bearing style grenades were used in Vietnam.
You can tell the difference between grenade types by the shape. Ball bearing ones are smooth and round, frangible ones have that 'pineapple' shape with lumps on the outside, the uneven surface was to create a more even shrapnel pattern.
Normally the ball bearings are steel but I suppose it's possible that they could be made of lead and the casing aluminium or something, although I know of no such model.
Also, I have never heard of defensive and offensive grenades. I don't think any such things exist.
You can tell the difference between grenade types by the shape. Ball bearing ones are smooth and round, frangible ones have that 'pineapple' shape with lumps on the outside, the uneven surface was to create a more even shrapnel pattern.
Normally the ball bearings are steel but I suppose it's possible that they could be made of lead and the casing aluminium or something, although I know of no such model.
Also, I have never heard of defensive and offensive grenades. I don't think any such things exist.
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WIKIPWEDIA is fun
Fragmentation
Main article: Fragmentation grenade
The fragmentation grenade (commonly known as a frag) is an anti-personnel weapon that is designed to disperse shrapnel upon exploding. The body is made of hard plastic or steel. Flechettes, notched wire, ball bearings or the case itself provide the fragments. When the word grenade is used without specification, and context does not suggest otherwise, it is generally assumed to refer to a fragmentation grenade.
These grenades were sometimes classed as defensive grenades because the effective casualty radius of some matched or exceeded the distance they could be thrown, thus necessitating them being thrown from behind cover. The Mills bomb or F1 grenade are examples of defensive grenades where the 30–45 m casualty radius[21] matched or exceeded the 30 m that a grenade could reasonably be thrown.
Modern fragmentation grenades such as the United States M67 grenade have a wounding radius of 15 m (half that of older style grenades, which can still be encountered) and can be thrown about 40 m. Fragments may travel more than 200 m.[22]
[edit]Concussion
US sailor undergoing grenadier certification with a concussion grenade.
The concussion grenade is an anti-personnel device that is designed to damage its target with explosive power alone. Compared to fragmentation grenades, the explosive filler is usually of a greater weight and volume. The case is far thinner and is designed to fragment as little as possible. The overpressure produced by this grenade when used in enclosed areas is greater than that produced by the fragmentation grenade. Therefore, it is especially effective in enclosed areas.
These grenades are usually classed as offensive weapons because the effective casualty radius is smaller than the distance it can be thrown. The concussion effect is more lethal than fragmentation, but its power drops more rapidly with range as well.
Fragmentation
Main article: Fragmentation grenade
The fragmentation grenade (commonly known as a frag) is an anti-personnel weapon that is designed to disperse shrapnel upon exploding. The body is made of hard plastic or steel. Flechettes, notched wire, ball bearings or the case itself provide the fragments. When the word grenade is used without specification, and context does not suggest otherwise, it is generally assumed to refer to a fragmentation grenade.
These grenades were sometimes classed as defensive grenades because the effective casualty radius of some matched or exceeded the distance they could be thrown, thus necessitating them being thrown from behind cover. The Mills bomb or F1 grenade are examples of defensive grenades where the 30–45 m casualty radius[21] matched or exceeded the 30 m that a grenade could reasonably be thrown.
Modern fragmentation grenades such as the United States M67 grenade have a wounding radius of 15 m (half that of older style grenades, which can still be encountered) and can be thrown about 40 m. Fragments may travel more than 200 m.[22]
[edit]Concussion
US sailor undergoing grenadier certification with a concussion grenade.
The concussion grenade is an anti-personnel device that is designed to damage its target with explosive power alone. Compared to fragmentation grenades, the explosive filler is usually of a greater weight and volume. The case is far thinner and is designed to fragment as little as possible. The overpressure produced by this grenade when used in enclosed areas is greater than that produced by the fragmentation grenade. Therefore, it is especially effective in enclosed areas.
These grenades are usually classed as offensive weapons because the effective casualty radius is smaller than the distance it can be thrown. The concussion effect is more lethal than fragmentation, but its power drops more rapidly with range as well.
Hey Waylander,
In WWII the British had a grenade made out of bakelite. I believe it was called a Black Banger, originally used for practise... until somebody noticed that it would be good to use in confined spaces.
Sorry there's not much more. But you try and Google Black Banger...
Regards
Whacko
In WWII the British had a grenade made out of bakelite. I believe it was called a Black Banger, originally used for practise... until somebody noticed that it would be good to use in confined spaces.
Sorry there's not much more. But you try and Google Black Banger...
Regards
Whacko
Googling Black Banger producing many interesting & varied results, but sadly nothing about bakelite grenades
This might be what I'm looking for
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/mk3a2.htm
This might be what I'm looking for
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/mk3a2.htm
Last edited:
ROFL, I bet it did...
SF has special stuff made for them all the time. They have a budget for it and procurement methods that are outside the normal military means. So, if you want a non-magnetic frag grenade, then make one for them. It will be well within the bounds of reason. Aluminum casing with lead filled copper fragmentation pellets inside. (or, an armor piercing variant with titanium cases)
A real grenade is heavier than you'd think it would be. It's also a terrifying reality when you pull the pin on one and hold it in your hand. You realize that if you slip and let go of that lever (the spoon), you're going to be blown up. When you throw it, you don't want to mess around. You want to get that thing as far away from you as you can. You can't throw it like a baseball -- well, OK, you can -- but only once. It's heavy enough where it's really going to strain the ligaments in your elbow and shoulder. That's why you throw them stiff armed.
After spending a few hours lost in the delights of what Google threw back with Black Bangers, I found this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_69_grenade
Only Google 69 Black Banger if you're over 18 is all I can say.
Which way is up ran through my head.
Regards
Whacko
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_69_grenade
Only Google 69 Black Banger if you're over 18 is all I can say.
Which way is up ran through my head.
Regards
Whacko
the body is fine, worry about the fuse.
Above the discussion is only about the graneade body. the mechanism in many grenades consists of a springloaded hammer, held in place by a spoon (the outside handle going down the side of the grenade.) which is in turn held in place by a pin. This mechanism, combined with a fuze and detonator is called the Fuze assembly. the rest of the grenade is the filler inside the body/casing
Exploded (ahah, ahah, view):
http://maic.jmu.edu/ordata/FullImage.asp?Image=images\E\E3981U02.JPG
On some designs there are some sort of extra safety, but mostly you pull the pin with your weak hand, holding a good grip on the grenade with the strong hand. When you throw it, the hammer spring pushes the hammer and the hammer pushes the spoon up and over and then it falls off. the hammer continues and hits a fuze, igniting it. After several seconds, depending on model, the fuze will detonate a primer which will detonate the main charge.
The problem with non metal grenades is that the body can be made out of plastic and ceramic balls, but the fuze assembly is mostly metal. If you want that part to be nonmetal, I would suggest a jury-rigged design utilising a friction fuse. Much the same as in the venerable potato masher, the german stick grenades:
http://cdn.instructables.com/F8C/YE79/FUVSGTQF/F8CYE79FUVSGTQF.SMALL.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Steilhandgranate_Schnittmodell_db.jpg
This eliminates the need for metallic fuse assembly, and if they use a paper/plastic-covered primer they should be home free.
Two problems though.
1. If they juryrig a fuse it might give their position away as it would smoke and spark in the air.
2. There is a reason why soldiers generally do not muck about with this stuff. It gets unreliable fast. It is very difficult to get a predictable time on a manually made fuse. It is also very difficult to get a predictable bang out of a home made primer. Generally: avoid things that go bang when it wants as opposed to when you want.
Opinion, not fact: If at all possible, your protagonists will probably want to smuggle the fuse assemblys and primers and count on them being small enough not to be noticed. the grenade bodies are main thing to make invisible.
Above the discussion is only about the graneade body. the mechanism in many grenades consists of a springloaded hammer, held in place by a spoon (the outside handle going down the side of the grenade.) which is in turn held in place by a pin. This mechanism, combined with a fuze and detonator is called the Fuze assembly. the rest of the grenade is the filler inside the body/casing
Exploded (ahah, ahah, view):
http://maic.jmu.edu/ordata/FullImage.asp?Image=images\E\E3981U02.JPG
On some designs there are some sort of extra safety, but mostly you pull the pin with your weak hand, holding a good grip on the grenade with the strong hand. When you throw it, the hammer spring pushes the hammer and the hammer pushes the spoon up and over and then it falls off. the hammer continues and hits a fuze, igniting it. After several seconds, depending on model, the fuze will detonate a primer which will detonate the main charge.
The problem with non metal grenades is that the body can be made out of plastic and ceramic balls, but the fuze assembly is mostly metal. If you want that part to be nonmetal, I would suggest a jury-rigged design utilising a friction fuse. Much the same as in the venerable potato masher, the german stick grenades:
http://cdn.instructables.com/F8C/YE79/FUVSGTQF/F8CYE79FUVSGTQF.SMALL.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Steilhandgranate_Schnittmodell_db.jpg
This eliminates the need for metallic fuse assembly, and if they use a paper/plastic-covered primer they should be home free.
Two problems though.
1. If they juryrig a fuse it might give their position away as it would smoke and spark in the air.
2. There is a reason why soldiers generally do not muck about with this stuff. It gets unreliable fast. It is very difficult to get a predictable time on a manually made fuse. It is also very difficult to get a predictable bang out of a home made primer. Generally: avoid things that go bang when it wants as opposed to when you want.
Opinion, not fact: If at all possible, your protagonists will probably want to smuggle the fuse assemblys and primers and count on them being small enough not to be noticed. the grenade bodies are main thing to make invisible.
Thanks for the extra info.
Note the fuze assembly can for my purposes be metal, it just has to be non-magnetic so aluminium alloy, brass, bronze would all be OK
Note the fuze assembly can for my purposes be metal, it just has to be non-magnetic so aluminium alloy, brass, bronze would all be OK
IED
Then I would go with something like a mk3A2 with a friction fuze and standard primer.
The primer is cased in white metal if I understand correctly and is not magnetic.
Friction fuzes are common in smoke grenades, so they would have no problem finding them in an inventory. (The grenades fuze mechanism unscrews for easy of transfer)
If your characters absolutely need shrapnel they can simply glue a bunch of bird shot to the outer casing and cover it with gaffa tape.
Note that with a friction fuze there is no lever to hold on to. You pull the fuze and three to five seconds later mister grenade is no longer your friend.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MK3A2
Then I would go with something like a mk3A2 with a friction fuze and standard primer.
The primer is cased in white metal if I understand correctly and is not magnetic.
Friction fuzes are common in smoke grenades, so they would have no problem finding them in an inventory. (The grenades fuze mechanism unscrews for easy of transfer)
If your characters absolutely need shrapnel they can simply glue a bunch of bird shot to the outer casing and cover it with gaffa tape.
Note that with a friction fuze there is no lever to hold on to. You pull the fuze and three to five seconds later mister grenade is no longer your friend.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MK3A2