Being a creator/craftsperson

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sunandshadow

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The Beastmaster thread made me realize I have a very similar question to ask. :) any of you who are familiar with MMORPG games know that this type typically puts you in the role of a young warrior who has the potential to mature into the Greatest Warrior In Teh World!1! Since fighting is the main thing you do in that type of game it wouldn't really be logical to make you anything besides a warrior.

But, there are a few online games which either have no combat or have combat as an optional minigame/side activity. A lot of these unfortunately have little or no story at all. For example, A Tale In The Desert is an Egyptian-themed MMO which has no combat; the player is an Egyptian peasant/farmer who can build up to being a wealthy rancher with a palace and ornamental gardens, and there's a small suggestion of story that someone who masters all the creative aspects of the world basically becomes one of the world's gods. Apotheosis is a pretty nice substitute for becoming the ultimate warrior. In other games what the player is creating over time is glorified by describing it as Civilization (with the player as a king or revered patron), or Life (in this case the player is usually tinkering with DNA and possible crafting their own body into more complex forms).

I'm interested in designing the story for an MMO which centers around crafting instead of fighting. The player would be responsible for creating housing, clothing, breeding animals, growing plants, etc. So the player is not studying a particular trade, they can craft anything in the world with enough study and practice. I'm looking for ideas about what sort of world it would be exciting to be a craftsperson in, and what would be the motivation of a character to identify primarily as a craftsperson/creator and strive to get better and better at this role. Do I have any options besides apotheosis for an ultimate goal? (Market domination and wealth are not valid for this because it is not primarily a financial or economic game.)
 

lbender

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Unfortunately, personal satisfaction at improvement won't work. One thing you can do is have a guild system. The better you become at a skill or craft, the higher you may move in your guild. The leaders of the guilds could rule the land - be a ruling council, one of which would be, in some way, appointed or elected chairman, or supreme overlord, depending on what you want to call it.
 

sunandshadow

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Unfortunately, personal satisfaction at improvement won't work.
I'm curious why you say that. I'd say it depends how that improvement manifests itself - if own some dogs, and I breed them to be larger and larger until I can ride one as a mount, that would be pretty awesome. Or if I master stonemasonry and it allows me to upgrade my house from log cabin to stone Greek architecture, that's also pretty cool. But it's true that nobody gives a crap about improvement that doesn't have useful and/or amusing results.
 

lbender

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True enough. I was thinking as personal satisfaction as its own reward.
 

lbender

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What you're describing isn't personal satisfaction. It's inventing new things - improvements - kind of like all the city-building games where your rewards are to create a thriving city or civilization.
 

Miriel

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The player would be responsible for creating housing, clothing, breeding animals, growing plants, etc. So the player is not studying a particular trade, they can craft anything in the world with enough study and practice. I'm looking for ideas about what sort of world it would be exciting to be a craftsperson in, and what would be the motivation of a character to identify primarily as a craftsperson/creator and strive to get better and better at this role. Do I have any options besides apotheosis for an ultimate goal? (Market domination and wealth are not valid for this because it is not primarily a financial or economic game.)

Building, weaving, animal husbandry, farming, are economic activities (not saying that there should be the end goals you listed, just sayin'). It kind of reminds me of Agricola, which is a board game (and a good one).

Have you played Minecraft? Currently, there aren't really quests/storyline...and there's fighting, but that's not the main point. People mine stuff and then build awesome, awesome stuff. I haven't played, but I know people who love it and there are some cool videos of stuff people have done. That might be something to look at.
 

Rhubix

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Unfortunately, personal satisfaction at improvement won't work.
Bejeweled -nuff said.


My first thought is steam punk distopia- It's rising in popularity and is just super fun. Gadgets and gizmos are a geeks haven.

I do think there should be some manner of economy though, even if it's a bunker or a safe house set up for trade stalls.
Characters should need something, a reason to craft. Maybe clothes is necessary because they have a life span, and without them you freeze to death. Food keeps you from starving.
It would give a person a reason to farm- I grow wheat and sell it so I can by clothes and tools.
It would also give people a reason to town up/ guild up. I'm a blacksmith your a farmer etc...
I don't know how I feel about someone being able to do everything. Then why make an MMO? If you can only do 1/5 things you need 4 other people.

When I play mmo's I play healers. I like grouping. If I want to play a game by myself I pick up a platform game, or a RPG.
 

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Lots (and I do mean LOTS) of MMOs deal with crafting. Several, including the now-defunct Star Wars Galaxies deal with it extensively. Some rely on it entirely for in-game artifacts.

You will never have the appeal that fighting games do, but tons of people love to log-in and craft. It stands to reason that they would enjoy a game where that was a source of primary reward...and real life offers you ample examples of what those rewards could be (though, I'd be happy to help toss ideas at you if you need).
 

sunandshadow

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Bejeweled -nuff said.


My first thought is steam punk distopia- It's rising in popularity and is just super fun. Gadgets and gizmos are a geeks haven.

I do think there should be some manner of economy though, even if it's a bunker or a safe house set up for trade stalls.
Characters should need something, a reason to craft. Maybe clothes is necessary because they have a life span, and without them you freeze to death. Food keeps you from starving.
It would give a person a reason to farm- I grow wheat and sell it so I can by clothes and tools.
It would also give people a reason to town up/ guild up. I'm a blacksmith your a farmer etc...
I don't know how I feel about someone being able to do everything. Then why make an MMO? If you can only do 1/5 things you need 4 other people.

When I play mmo's I play healers. I like grouping. If I want to play a game by myself I pick up a platform game, or a RPG.
Personally I like MMOs because I like the feeling of being in a lively world where other people are doing the same things I am, and chatting about them. But I detest mandatory multiplayer content.
 

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, and what would be the motivation of a character to identify primarily as a craftsperson/creator and strive to get better and better at this role. Do I have any options besides apotheosis for an ultimate goal?

Make him want to be an artist. Make art and artistry an essential part of society.
 

CheG

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Well killing stuff is fun. Perhaps find a balance. One of my favorite little GBA RPGs is called Swordcraft Story Summon Knight and you get to make your own weapons and things which is really fun. Although collecting materials can be a bit of a pain.

But I think gamers also like (and real people too) material results for there efforts. So if there is a game payoff for becoming a great crafter, that helps encourage you to keep going.
 

Rhubix

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Personally I like MMOs because I like the feeling of being in a lively world where other people are doing the same things I am, and chatting about them.
This sounds like my job lol. Everyone minds their cubicle but comes out to have a chat around the coffee pot or the lunch table. Then back to the computers to become more hunch-backed and red-eyed.
But I detest mandatory multiplayer content.
You can rely on other members of the game without having to group with them, or perform tasks together. I have wool- you have ore, lets trade.
Wolves are eating my sheep, but I'm too low in tracking to find them. I don't want to wander the forest tracking lesser creatures to raise my skill. Instead, maybe I can post an add at the town bulletin board with a reward.
 

Ardent Kat

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Instead of World of Warcraft, you could make Wold of CraftWar! It's an all-out battle for economic and innovative supremacy.

I think the idea sounds cool. I like board games like Agricola and Settlers of Catan where the focus is in building your settlements/empire.

Building a thriving little community in itself wouldnt' be enough motive for me to play a game (I never caught on to the SIMS games, for instance) but I love non-combat content in games like crafting and trading (working the Auction House to make cash is a minigame in itself). Some system of acknowledging a player's advancement would be all it takes me to keep coming back.

I like the idea of guilds so the player can get new titles in lieu of levels to show her progression and advancement. Rival artists trying to gain high levels of Prestige to gain influence over the city would be fun, too. Get big enough and your artist could start her own cult or become a politician for no other merit than her fame. (Governor Schwarzenegger, anyone?)
 

thothguard51

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Personally I like MMOs because I like the feeling of being in a lively world where other people are doing the same things I am, and chatting about them. But I detest mandatory multiplayer content.

Playing MMO and reading a fantasy type book about some guy and how he invents the biggest and best widget will have limited appeal without some form of conflict.

By conflict, I am not talking about everyday struggles to survive. I am talking about a conflict that forces a character into doing whatever it is he does beyond his everyday stuff...

If you haven't already, read Ann McCaffrey's Dragons of Pern series for an idea of conflict without large battles or fights. Its them against a form of nature...
 

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I often play crafters in MMOs. I enjoy the economy and trading side of it, which isn't what you want to hear, but it's a big part of it for me. A crafting system that involves some player skill is good, such as the old Star Wars Galaxies system where you had to pick resources with the right stats and experiment for the best items.

For world builders, I like a good balance of functional and decorative items to earn as I progress. Currently I'm enjoying Trade Nations. It lets me see my friend's town while I build mine, as well as having a sandbox-style building area for laying out the town.

So overall, I like things that take some of my skills to do (whether it's figuring out the game system or designing a pretty village). I like some sandbox elements. And I like player economies. The story and world could be whatever you liked... but if the gameplay isn't there, story alone isn't enough to hold it. If the gameplay is there, I'd give a story outside my usual interests a chance.
 

Ardent Kat

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Playing... will have limited appeal without some form of conflict.

By conflict, I am not talking about everyday struggles to survive. I am talking about a conflict that forces a character into doing whatever it is he does beyond his everyday stuff...


The massive popularity of the SIMs games would suggest otherwise...

And honing one's craft as an artisan (as it sounds like the OP is describing) is arguably far more interesting than simply earning a living wage. It's the difference between celebrity artisans honing their skills to world-renown levels and someone holding down a boring desk job just to get by.
 

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Final Fantasy XIV comes immediately to mind. There was a huge component of crafting involved. I didn't play enough of it to get a good feel for the balance (or lack) between crafting and warrioring but I did note that many players were more into the crafting aspect of it than the fighting.

And I know that the Harvest Moon series of games are not MMO but the one I'm currently addicted to playing is based on crop growing and crafting and cooking for upgrades to better tools to help solve the plot of the game.

:/ not sure if that was what you were looking for...
 
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