With agent but no contract yet?

Sounds to me like you're signed, in the colloquial sense of the word, at least. We use an actual contract at Veritas, but plenty of agencies work by verbal agreement. There's nothing odd about that.

I presume you had a conversation that followed one of three patterns:

1.) "I'd like to offer you representation. Can you fix a few problems before it goes on submission?"
2.) "Fix these issues and then we'll offer you representation."
3.) "Fix these issues and resubmit."

One, you have an agent. Two, you don't yet, but are very close. Three, you have a strong possibility, but I would keep submitting to other agents while you work with the agent making the suggestions.

If you're confused, ask your agent for clarification. She won't be annoyed or drop you.

Verbal or "handshake" agreements used to be the norm. Some agencies still do use them, but most agencies have written contracts or letters of agreement. Personally, I wouldn't be comfortable without something in writing, even if it's just an email confirming a verbal representation offer. The literary world is way more complicated than it used to be, and the agent-of-record clause in a publishing contract, which used to be the only written formalization of the author-agent relationship, is no longer enough.

That said, I agree with KingM's assessment and advice. (I'd actually be more worried about your friend who was signed on the basis of 10 pages. A good beginning doesn't guarantee a good ending, which is why reputable agents typically want to read the entire manuscript before making an offer.)

I don't want to be too negative, but I've been through a similar process (with editors, not agents) a couple of times now, and both times, the editor wound up passing on the manuscript. So although it's always encouraging when an agent wants to work with you, putting you through an editing process before formally offering representation may mean they're hedging their bets, and want to see if you can deliver before making a commitment to you. I hope it works out for you.

- Victoria

victoriastrauss said:

That said, I agree with KingM's assessment and advice. (I'd actually be more worried about your friend who was signed on the basis of 10 pages.

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Books sell based on pages, but not with first-time novelists. There might be some cases with a non-fiction writer with a huge platform.

It does raise warning flags.

I don't want to be too negative, but I've been through a similar process (with editors, not agents) a couple of times now, and both times, the editor wound up passing on the manuscript. So although it's always encouraging when an agent wants to work with you, putting you through an editing process before formally offering representation may mean they're hedging their bets, and want to see if you can deliver before making a commitment to you.

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I end up disappointed with a lot of requested rewrites. Maybe the fixes were mechanical, or worse, a perfunctory fix that manages to break all the good stuff, too. Other times it's better, but still not quite there and I don't feel I can offer.

I feel terrible rejecting in this last case, but I've got to make calculating decisions. The publishing world is a cruel savanna, where only the strongest keep up with the herd. The weak and the ill get torn apart by lions and hyenas.

Having said all that, if I go to the amount of work described above, you can bet I'm serious about signing that writer. That sounds at least like case #2 above.

One other thing. I advise keeping a version of the book you submitted that earned you the rewrite request. I've seen cases where people get caught up in the excitement of agent or editor interest, make the changes, and then regret some of the deeper modifications. If you keep an earlier draft, you're out some time, but you haven't potentially crippled a book that was obviously strong enough to garner initial interest.

KingM said:

Books sell based on pages, but not with first-time novelists.

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Unless you're Hannu Rajaniemi, who apparently got representation for - and sold - his unfinished novel The Quantum Thief on the basis of one chapter. And that's now on its...eighth reprint? I dunno, I lose track.

But that's a once-in-a-generation black swan story. The rest of us are lucky to sell on a complete manuscript.

Sounds to me like the agent does have interest or they would not be spending on this time working with you...

I think this is all positive, no matter the outcome because as you say, you can see the reasons for the edits and rewrites and that can only make you better as a writer.

Anne Lyle said:

Unless you're Hannu Rajaniemi, who apparently got representation for - and sold - his unfinished novel The Quantum Thief on the basis of one chapter. And that's now on its...eighth reprint? I dunno, I lose track.

But that's a once-in-a-generation black swan story. The rest of us are lucky to sell on a complete manuscript.

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Right, I should clarify. Not with beginners and not with midlisters. But there are quite a few black swans out there. Arthur Clarke famously got an offer based on, "I'm going to write a novel," and I once heard Joe Haldeman tell a group of incredulous beginners, "You don't need to write the whole book to get an offer. I once faxed in a few ideas to my editor and had a contract by the end of the day." J.K. Rowling has millions on the table whenever she hints that she's ready to start her next project.

I'm sure there are many writers who could get a contract based on ten pages and an outline. And thousands of published novelists who need a complete manuscript.

I found that bouncing ideas off an editor was hugely inspiring and helped me fill in some plot holes I had been worrying about. I guess there would be other ways to fix them, now I've faced them down, but I think the book is stronger for having someone push me beyond my comfort zone.

Beta-readers, even good ones, tend to be reluctant to suggest changes, with good reason since it's not their opinion that counts when it comes to selling the book.

KingM said:

Right, I should clarify. Not with beginners and not with midlisters.

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Sorry to derail the discussion, but The Quantum Thief is Rajaniemi's debut novel. 24 pages. 3. Book. Deal. *jawdrop*

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/nov/09/hannu-rajaniemi-quantum-thief

Now, back to your regularly scheduled agent Q&A

Anne Lyle said:

Sorry to derail the discussion, but The Quantum Thief is Rajaniemi's debut novel. 24 pages. 3. Book. Deal. *jawdrop*

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/nov/09/hannu-rajaniemi-quantum-thief

Now, back to your regularly scheduled agent Q&A

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Wow. I know I should find stories like that inspiring, but there's just a wrong feeling for those of us working in the business. And whatever I'm feeling as an agent, it's got to be doubly grating for the writers toiling in anonymity, trying to follow all the rules.

On deeper reflection, there's more to this story than appears in this article.

KingM said:

On deeper reflection, there's more to this story than appears in this article.

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I think he was just crazy lucky - he fell in with a bunch of high-profile SF writers, including Charlie Stross, which must have boosted his networking power into the stratosphere. The SF&F literary community here is very, very small - I've only been to a few conventions, and I've already made friends with a number of published authors, which is how I got introduced to the editor who's requested an R&R. A couple of years ago I watched Iain M Banks play pool in the hotel bar, though I was far too shy to introduce myself!

I imagine that level of face-to-face networking is much harder to do in the States, where most aspiring writers live hundreds of miles from where the "cool kids" hang out...

KingM said:

On deeper reflection, there's more to this story than appears in this article.

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I was talking about this a few weeks ago with a couple of other members of this board who know more than me about markets/writers in the UK - he apparently had a strong short story background, so he wasn't 'unknown' just not previously 'a novelist'

IdiotsRUs said:

I was talking about this a few weeks ago with a couple of other members of this board who know more than me about markets/writers in the UK - he apparently had a strong short story background, so he wasn't 'unknown' just not previously 'a novelist'

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Makes sense. I don't read much short fiction these days - I prefer the immersive experience of a novel.

Anne Lyle said:

Beta-readers, even good ones, tend to be reluctant to suggest changes, with good reason since it's not their opinion that counts when it comes to selling the book.

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Mine aren't reluctant to suggest changes, at all. They tell me exactly what they think, and I appreciate them for that.

Come to think of it, one of the first comments I got on my earliest critted version was "this would be so much cooler set in the real Elizabethan London than a made-up version" - and I took their advice because I felt they were right.

Since then, I've only received relatively minor suggestions about fixing individual scenes. It wasn't until I started submitting it that I began getting larger scale feedback about what would make it more exciting and commercial.