Amazon Book Reviews

Chrispd · Dec 16, 2010

I've just become the victim of a revenge-by-review review of one of my books on Amazon.com. I think it's time for authors to begin to take on Amazon for a review process that seems to have no effective rules, requirements and ethics, and about which the company says: too bad, not our problem. I am making the case that with Amazon's growing power in the marketplace (I have no problem with that) comes growing responsibility for the ethics of that marketplace and the professional treatment of the intellectual property of those who write the books it sells.

Thoughts? Others with Amazon problems? Suggestions?

Thank you.

veinglory · Dec 16, 2010

If you flag a review it tends to get taken down. In fact even perfectly legit reviewers have been removed by authors rallying their fans to flag them. Amazon is about customers, no action by authors is going to interest them much.

Soccer Mom · Dec 16, 2010

Yes, definitely flag it if you believe it to be a revenge by review. They really do take them down.

ETA: Oh, and by the way, :welcome:

seun · Dec 16, 2010

Chrispd said:
I am making the case that with Amazon's growing power in the marketplace (I have no problem with that) comes growing responsibility for the ethics of that marketplace and the professional treatment of the intellectual property of those who write the books it sells.

Good luck with that.

citymouse · Dec 16, 2010

Last summer I got a bad review from a woman who signed her name. She also added the state where she lives. The last line in her review lamented that she had spent $$ on a book she felt wasn't worth the cost.
Well, I did a people search, found the woman's street address and sent her a snail mail note offering to send her a full refund for the book, plus any shipping costs. I said she could either send me the book or tear off the cover and send that. It would be a proof of purchase, although I did not tell her that. I did not refer to her review except for the last line.
The woman never responded to me but about five days later the review came down. I'm sure Amazon didn't remove it on its own.

As for other authors slamming me, I'm safe! I'm way too small potatoes for anyone to notice, much less other people's fans.
C

seun · Dec 16, 2010

citymouse said:
Last summer I got a bad review from a woman who signed her name. She also added the state where she lives. The last line in her review lamented that she had spent $$ on a book she felt wasn't worth the cost.
Well, I did a people search, found the woman's street address and sent her a snail mail note offering to send her a full refund for the book

Not being stroppy, but searching for the woman's address strikes me as a bit of a grey area ethically. :Shrug:

Jamiekswriter · Dec 16, 2010

seun said:
Not being stroppy, but searching for the woman's address strikes me as a bit of a grey area ethically.

Why?

Gillhoughly · Dec 16, 2010

I got a drive by review--a clearly personal attack--from someone who had been at a convention where I was a guest. Something I said at the convention made its way into her commentary.

Which I found rather amusing. I knew who it was, her motivation, and marveled that she thought I'd not notice.

I reported it to Amazon, pointing out that there was no review, just comments about me as a person. Thankfully, they agreed and removed it.

If you think you've gotten a slam like that, then absolutely report it.

Let Amazon do the dirty work.

But never--and I mean NEVER!!!!--engage the reviewer online in any way whatsoever.

I'm sure a few here will recall a batshit insane paranormal writer who went looney-toon over a 3-star review and got into a public donnybrook with the reviewer in the Amazon comments. Sides were formed up, tears were shed, and it's a miracle the writer's agent and publisher ever spoke to her again.

Non-professional behavior can kill your career.

Not everyone is going to love your words. That's part of the job and you shrug it off. But if it looks like the reviewer has an agenda beyond the limits of offering an opinion on one's book, call in the marines.

One of my pals even agreed with a few of the 1-star reviews. "They had valid points."

Or, you can quote the bad reviews on your website, but make sure you're funny, like Preston & Child:

Reviewer:
"I decided that I would have to finish this book, even though I knew at about the half-way point, I would have to dispose of it so that at least there would be one fewer copy on the face of the earth...The science is so weak as to be embarassing. More than embarassing, absolute garbage, even taking into account poetic license. To anyone who believes that this is a quality novel, or anything beyond toilet paper, all I can say is 'There are good scientific thrillers out there, these authors couldn't write one, even if they were copying one word-for-word.' "

The authors reply:
"Ouch! Don't get all hot and anxious about my poetic license, that was revoked last year. And by the way, there are two 'r's in 'embarrass.' " -- Lincoln Child

"Not good science? Why, before writing RELIC, we did extensive scientific research on the worldwide problem of brain-eating monsters infesting museums. What more could you want?" -- Douglas Preston

citymouse · Dec 16, 2010

I agree that public donnybrooks are career killers. No one comes out well in the end.
C

amrose · Dec 16, 2010

Jamiekswriter said:
Why?

I would be weirded out by an author sending me personal (snail mail) correspondence over a bad review. I understand that in this case it was a legitimate "hey, I'll give you your money back since you didn't like it," but if it happened to me, I'd be creeped.

Deleted member 42 · Dec 16, 2010

It can be hard not to respond, but it really is for the best.

There's a single Amazon review for a book about the iPad three of us co-wrote.

The review really does sound like it's someone who didn't actually read the book, but glanced at a few pages.

The same book has lots of high ratings at iBooks, and a couple of really positive reviews.

But we're all sitting on our hands, and not responding.

And I'm sending out review copies hoping for a genuine review.

citymouse · Dec 16, 2010

I find that interesting. I get snail mail from people I don't know all the time.
C

citymouse · Dec 16, 2010

In the case of reviews, I keep in mind that they are opinions, and opinions are what make horse races.
Most reviews are ego exercises. Funny thing about egos, the more they are exercised the less effective they become.
C

Chrispd · Dec 16, 2010

Amazon Reviews

Original poster here. The advice not to engage reviewers is good as far as it goes. I'm a member of the Authors Guild whose Dir was once asked about these reviews, and was quoted in this account from 1999: “Somewhat above the fray, Paul Aiken, executive Director of the Authors Guild in New York City says his organization has heard complaints from some of its members, but points out that the online booksellers have self-policing mechanisms. ‘The author is invited to respond [to online reviews]’ Aiken Says.” I did respond to the online review in a diplomatic and reasonable way, as Aiken and others suggest. In response, the reviewer went back to the review, rewrote it to make it worse and preempt some of the observations in my comment, reduce it to one star and make its headline even worse. This newly edited review stayed in place with the same original date on it though it had been rewritten two months later. I'm glad I did that, had to be done. If we can't have reasonable discussions with reasonable people all is lost. And I think that we as authors have to stand up for ourselves in reasonable ways. The problem for me is that I have a new book already listed on Amazon (along with five others) though it won't be published until March, a very ambitious two year project with high expectations from the publisher, will become one of its first Kindle products, and there sits on my Amazon page a review as described above by an anonymous person (who's given name doesn't show up anywhere no matter how sharply I use my internet investigative skills) with no credentials given for the topic, attacking my competence by name and tainting my position on what has become the largest marketplace for the products all of us hope to sell. The matter has gone to the highest reaches of the "Amazon Community," but "This review is within our posted guidelines. We won't remove it in its current format, and we aren't able to consider the removal of this review any further. . . Thank you for your understanding."

We all need good editing and criticism when it is informed and reasoned. We want our writing to create discussion and debate. We don't need an enterprise that is becoming the main marketplace for the products we produce to allow a wild west kind of rodeo where ethics and intellectual integrity are not required. With Amazon's growth since Mr. Aiken's comment in 1999 has come its increased responsibility for a professional environment in which our products are sold. It's sort of like if I walked into a B&N, pulled one of my books off the shelf and found that someone had scrawled "Junk! Author is stupid! Don't buy!" on its cover in neon marker.

I'm taking other steps to address the problem, won't go back to the review and comment section. But we shouldn't have to be putting up with this kind of nonsense.

Thanks, and feel free to pass along.

gothicangel · Dec 16, 2010

Chrispd said:
I've just become the victim of a revenge-by-review review of one of my books on Amazon.com. I think it's time for authors to begin to take on Amazon for a review process that seems to have no effective rules, requirements and ethics, and about which the company says: too bad, not our problem. I am making the case that with Amazon's growing power in the marketplace (I have no problem with that) comes growing responsibility for the ethics of that marketplace and the professional treatment of the intellectual property of those who write the books it sells.

Thoughts? Others with Amazon problems? Suggestions?

Thank you.

I would make absolutely sure that it is a revenge review before you go embarrassing yourself.

gothicangel · Dec 16, 2010

Chrispd said:
Original poster here. The advice not to engage reviewers is good as far as it goes. I'm a member of the Authors Guild whose Dir was once asked about these reviews, and was quoted in this account from 1999: “Somewhat above the fray, Paul Aiken, executive Director of the Authors Guild in New York City says his organization has heard complaints from some of its members, but points out that the online booksellers have self-policing mechanisms. ‘The author is invited to respond [to online reviews]’ Aiken Says.” I did respond to the online review in a diplomatic and reasonable way, as Aiken and others suggest. In response, the reviewer went back to the review, rewrote it to make it worse and preempt some of the observations in my comment, reduce it to one star and make its headline even worse. This newly edited review stayed in place with the same original date on it though it had been rewritten two months later. I'm glad I did that, had to be done. If we can't have reasonable discussions with reasonable people all is lost. And I think that we as authors have to stand up for ourselves in reasonable ways. The problem for me is that I have a new book already listed on Amazon (along with five others) though it won't be published until March, a very ambitious two year project with high expectations from the publisher, will become one of its first Kindle products, and there sits on my Amazon page a review as described above by an anonymous person (who's given name doesn't show up anywhere no matter how sharply I use my internet investigative skills) with no credentials given for the topic, attacking my competence by name and tainting my position on what has become the largest marketplace for the products all of us hope to sell. The matter has gone to the highest reaches of the "Amazon Community," but "This review is within our posted guidelines. We won't remove it in its current format, and we aren't able to consider the removal of this review any further. . . Thank you for your understanding."

We all need good editing and criticism when it is informed and reasoned. We want our writing to create discussion and debate. We don't need an enterprise that is becoming the main marketplace for the products we produce to allow a wild west kind of rodeo where ethics and intellectual integrity are not required. With Amazon's growth since Mr. Aiken's comment in 1999 has come its increased responsibility for a professional environment in which our products are sold. It's sort of like if I walked into a B&N, pulled one of my books off the shelf and found that someone had scrawled "Junk! Author is stupid! Don't buy!" on its cover in neon marker.

I'm taking other steps to address the problem, won't go back to the review and comment section. But we shouldn't have to be putting up with this kind of nonsense.

Thanks, and feel free to pass along.

1999 was before the dot-com bust, and waay before Amazon started making a profit. I refuse to condemn a company because of a comment made 11 years ago.

Ineti · Dec 16, 2010

People actually read amazon reviews?

Waste of time. Keep writing.

citymouse · Dec 16, 2010

People do read reviews. Reviews have been around ever since one person asked another, "What do you think of this?"
Some people are moved to either buy or pass on a product because of reviews. I am. However, it is the preponderance of positive or negative opinions that may sway me, not a single review.
In that reviews can and do influence sales, they are important to sellers. They should be important to authors too.
C

Momento Mori · Dec 16, 2010

If it's a genuine revenge review that's targeting you as an author rather than making criticism about the book, then report it. If it's just a nasty review, ignore it or vote it down. Most customers on Amazon can distinguish those reviews that are agenda bashers rather than genuine comments, which is why they're the ones voted down.

MM

brainstorm77 · Dec 16, 2010

Bad reviews can mean sales. I have bought more than one book after reading a terrible review. :tongue

Amadan · Dec 16, 2010

Momento Mori said:
If it's a genuine revenge review that's targeting you as an author rather than making criticism about the book, then report it. If it's just a nasty review, ignore it or vote it down. Most customers on Amazon can distinguish those reviews that are agenda bashers rather than genuine comments, which is why they're the ones voted down.

Unless it's a polarizing book with many fans or detractors, in which case people tend to vote up or down on reviews based on whether they share the reviewer's opinion.

I've gotta say, unless it's truly a "revenge review" (how do you know this, exactly?) or otherwise not a real review, suck it up and let it go. Authors who decide they need to "do something" about people leaving them bad reviews are the kind who wind up being snarked across the internet.

leahzero · Dec 16, 2010

Chrispd said:
I did respond to the online review in a diplomatic and reasonable way, as Aiken and others suggest. In response, the reviewer went back to the review, rewrote it to make it worse and preempt some of the observations in my comment, reduce it to one star and make its headline even worse.

An unfortunate lesson you're going to have to learn while dealing with people on the internet: don't feed the trolls. Every "reasonable" argument you give them is just another turd they'll hurl back in your face. You simply have to abstain from engaging with people like this. Trust that your potential readers are intelligent enough to objectively evaluate one bad review.

By engaging with the troll, not only do you give him ammunition to use against you, but you give observers the impression that there may be some legitimacy to his arguments.

Just don't do it.

Chrispd said:
and there sits on my Amazon page a review as described above by an anonymous person (who's given name doesn't show up anywhere no matter how sharply I use my internet investigative skills) with no credentials given for the topic, attacking my competence by name and tainting my position on what has become the largest marketplace for the products all of us hope to sell. The matter has gone to the highest reaches of the "Amazon Community," but "This review is within our posted guidelines. We won't remove it in its current format, and we aren't able to consider the removal of this review any further. . . Thank you for your understanding."

You're getting into a gray area by trying to ferret out the "credentials" of your critic, presumably so you can turn around and attempt to discredit his/her review. Their credentials don't matter.

You did the right thing by escalating the matter to Amazon. As other posters said above, Amazon is pretty reasonable about removing non-reviews and libel. Without seeing the review in question, there's not much we can say. A bad review can be traumatic; try not to take it too personally. From what you've said, it sounds like the reviewer has an axe to grind, and they're just going to focus on any negative aspect they can point to no matter what you do. There's no way to reason with someone in that mindset.

Chrispd said:
It's sort of like if I walked into a B&N, pulled one of my books off the shelf and found that someone had scrawled "Junk! Author is stupid! Don't buy!" on its cover in neon marker.

No, it's really not. Your book hasn't been indelibly tarnished. Reviews have been around for a long time; bad reviews are nothing new. The proximity of the review to the product in an online marketplace is a good thing, IMO--it has much more potential to help sales than hinder them. The very existence of a review shows that the book has been read (usually; not always the case), and even a passionate bad review is evidence that the content stirred high emotion from someone.

What happened to you sucks, but you have to stay above it. Notify Amazon and ignore the troll.

AEFerreira · Dec 16, 2010

I think almost all readers can tell the difference between a review that critiques the merits of the book and a review that is spiteful, or that is just a matter of "not the reviewer's taste/this books sucks" with nothing of substance. Most people I know who read Amazon reviews take 1 and 5 star reviews with a grain of salt or don't read them at all.

I wouldn't make a big deal over it. I know it is hard not to retalitate, but when people say spiteful things, that reflects on them, not you, or your work. As soon as you retaliate, it reflects on you.

And sometime you will get bad reviews that are legitimate. Not everyone likes everything. Got to have thick skin.

Nya RAyne · Dec 16, 2010

brainstorm77 said:
Bad reviews can mean sales. I have bought more than one book after reading a terrible review.

Dit...to!! I've bought badly reviewed books just to see what the hoopla is about. That's sad, but hey it's another sale for the Author.

seun · Dec 17, 2010

Jamiekswriter said:
Why?

Well, if someone I didn't know wrote to me and said they'd gone online to find my address, I'd be more than a little disturbed.

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