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Sargentodiaz
12-13-2010, 11:52 PM
Just to throw a bit of odd information into the pot, something we were NEVER taught in school.

A census of soldiers serving at the Presidio of San Diego in the late 1700s shows the following - There were twenty-five mulatos and colores quebrados, that is, people with some degree of African ancestry who made up about a quarter of the adults."

And that does not include ALL of the Spanish soldiers serving in the various presidio and missions in Alta (Upper) and Baja (Lower) California.

What this means is that more than a few of the early soldiers and civilians in California were NOT the pure Spanish historians and teachers try to tell us. And, apparently there was NO racial prejudice as they all served, fought, died and retired just feeling they were one race.

{as an aside, I almost "completed" all three of my three-part story of the founding of California and continued to review information about the period. Oops! Missed a few things here and there. Learned some truly interesting stuff I was never taught in school. So, along with some comments from a great beta reader, it's back to the drawing board BIG TIME!}

:Headbang:

Horseshoes
12-14-2010, 09:23 PM
I think it's fantastic that you did this project and learned so much. It is always interesting to go to the source and read many sides of history and question the tiny bits we were taught in school.

Of course, in school, we were younger, The amount of time and interest to be spent on something was minimal and didn't favor complicated analyss Teachers boiled things down to a few sentences (usually inaccurately, as such efforts on complicated human matters will be). I remember being eight and told about Pearl Harbor. The Japanese attacked the US. Huh, thought I, and raised my hand. "Why?" The teachers were not ready for my question. They didn't teach critical thinking. They taught that on that particular day in history that particular incident occurred.

Still ya just can't support this statement:
"there was NO racial prejudice as they all served, fought, died and retired just feeling they were one race."

There was no prejudice? You know how everyone felt?

History is terrific and people are endlessly fascinating, aren't they?

Sargentodiaz
12-14-2010, 09:42 PM
Oops! Caught me making a general statement that couldn't be true.

Of course there was prejudice! Early European society was filled with bias and prejudice at every level. Highborn versus the peasaants. Rich versus poor. Jews in Spain were reviled and hated by many. In the New World, the barbaric savages were looked down upon by many.

I guess what I wanted to say was that among the Presidials - the soldiers who served on the frontiers of New Spain and supported the missionaries, they seemed to hold together solidly without any apparant prejudices amongst the non-officer ranks.

On the other hand, officers were always of Spanish birth but had some wierd prejudices. Castile, the center of the country with the Royal Court was superior to the provinces. Catalonia felt itself superior to the Baeleric Islands. In the New World, those of Spanish blood from the homeland felt themselves superior to those of Spanish blood born there, known as Criollos.
And then there were those who held to the Old Ways while others felt themselves to be enlightened and therefore superior to them.

And on and on it goes.:Shrug:

Tsu Dho Nimh
12-15-2010, 12:42 AM
A census of soldiers serving at the Presidio of San Diego in the late 1700s shows the following - There were twenty-five mulatos and colores quebrados, that is, people with some degree of African ancestry who made up about a quarter of the adults."

What this means is that more than a few of the early soldiers and civilians in California were NOT the pure Spanish historians and teachers try to tell us. And, apparently there was NO racial prejudice as they all served, fought, died and retired just feeling they were one race.

Which teachers and historians are you talking about? I took Latin American history and never was told there were only "pure Spanish" anythings.

The prejudice was there, but more class based than color based.

Medievalist
12-15-2010, 12:49 AM
I dunno where you went to school, but this is pretty common knowledge in California.

They even talk about it at the various Mission sites on the Mission trail.

Sargentodiaz
12-15-2010, 09:47 PM
I dunno where you went to school, but this is pretty common knowledge in California.

They even talk about it at the various Mission sites on the Mission trail.

I'm so glad that is what one learns now. When I was in school in the late 40's and early 50's, I never once saw or read any references to anyone but the Spanish and Indians involved in early California. Oh yeah, they talked about the Spanish/Indian Mestizos but never anything about anyone of African heritage.

I also never knew just how serious the prejudice was betwen those born in Spain and those of Spanish blood born in the New World.

CACTUSWENDY
12-15-2010, 10:01 PM
Shoot. Even here in the early history of Tucson there were lots of black folks/families here. Not many know that.

PeterL
12-15-2010, 11:56 PM
I essentially agree with Medievalist, but change it from California to Massachusetts. One thing that I was taught in school is that the idea of there being several "races" of humans is a rather new idea, going back roughtly 500 years.

BTW, Catalonia is superior to the Balearic Islands.

Sargentodiaz
12-16-2010, 09:00 PM
Ain't it amazing that humans don't change all that much over the centuries!!!!!

Whether it's different parts of the same country or station of birth or ethnic differences the biases and prejudices don'r really change.

I find it interesting how much "revisionist history" from the very early 20th Century has skewed the truth about our own American history. As cactusWendy said, a lot of people with African blood - as well as Indian - played an important role in the founding of this country.

Stanmiller
12-16-2010, 09:32 PM
In the New World, the barbaric savages were looked down upon by many.

Still are, dude. Still are. Grew up with it.

Kathie Freeman
12-17-2010, 09:50 PM
On the other hand, most barbaric savages (not meaning minorities) in the US nowadays are so by choice.

PeterL
12-17-2010, 10:46 PM
On the other hand, most barbaric savages (not meaning minorities) in the US nowadays are so by choice.

Or because they don't know any better.

Kathie Freeman
12-20-2010, 09:16 PM
You mean there are still people in the US who don't know it's not OK to gun down grandmas and babies?