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contactevaline · Oct 1, 2005

Note from Jenna: Google is useful. I found Evaline's original post and am putting it back:

Hey!

My name is Evaline Horng and I was wondering if anyone would like to beta read my original fantasy. I’m actually getting it published by Tor Fantasy, but I’m getting it pre-bounded in to book form by a book bounder for an author convention that’s going to be held in Vegas which I was selected as a key note speaker for. Check out the website: http://www.wizardsofwords.com

I know this is short notice, but I’m a little desperate for a beta reader right now lol, because I’ve only got about a month to put the whole thing together. You will get for credit for your work of course and for helping me out. I’m looking for someone who can do the following things: proofread, sentence structure, Grammar, look out for plot holes and just the plot itself to see if it’s strong enough, or weak or un original or whatever and if there is anyway to make it better, spelling, characterization (to see if my character’s actions and dialogue fit the described personalities, and if they are weak characters or not three dimensional etc.), writing style, and just a reviewing in general, in other words giving a detailed review at the end of each chapter so I would know what to improve on, what you liked, what you disliked etc.

I had my last beta reader put all her corrections in bold and put brackets around the things to delete and put parentheses around the things to change, add or fix. You could do whatever you feel comfortable doing as long as you provide me with a key or something so I would know what you mean.

Given my time frame, I’m going to be in a bit of a rush with this one, I will chop the whole book up in three sections. There are thirty nine chapters in this story, each chapter has 14 pages, even. The first section will hold sections one to twenty three. The next section will hold chapters Twenty four to Thirty Four and the last section will have Thirty five to Thirty Nine. I will give you a one or two days time frame before sending you each section. You can take your time, and please do not feel the need to rush before the next section comes. You can take your time with the whole book and send it all back together, or in sections or chapters until October 17, which is when I need it to send it in to the bounder. So as long as I get it back by October 17 you can pretty much take your time on it.

I know this is a lot to ask, and it’s short notice and I’m not allowing you much time to beta this and I apologize. I do hope you are interested in betaing my story and I would truly appreciate it. If you are interested, drop me an email at: [email protected] and I’ll send you the first section on Monday. I do hope you are interested and I look forward to hearing from you!

-Evaline

............

fallenangelwriter · Oct 1, 2005

I'd be happy to try to help out.

I'm new to writing myself, but i think i can recognize plot holes and keep an eye out for sentence structure.

EDIT: email me at [email protected]

dragonjax · Oct 1, 2005

Tor is publishing your book...but you are allowed to get the MS bound and printed separately for this event? That sounds strange.

And aren't you working with an editor from Tor on your book? If so, why do you need a fast (and free) edit elsewhere?

((scratching head))

victoriastrauss · Oct 1, 2005

A book bounder?

Seems to me that if you need someone to check your spelling and grammar, your book isn't submission-ready, which makes me wonder whether the thing about Tor isn't maybe just a bit of an exaggeration.

- Victoria

Dawno · Oct 1, 2005

FYI - Wizards of Words (see link in first post) is the book signing that PublishAmerica authors are putting together in Vegas.

Here's what they say about Evaline

dragonjax · Oct 2, 2005

"She's still in the process of deciding which of the publishers would be best for her."

Uh huh. Enough said.

Thanks for the info, Dawno.

JennaGlatzer · Oct 2, 2005

Evaline, trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but your story sounds extremely fishy. Are you saying you've signed a contract with Tor? And that they're allowing you to bind and distribute an unfinished, unedited manuscript at a convention? And you need a volunteer editor (note: what you're asking for isn't a beta reader-- it's a free editor) even though you already have an assigned editor at Tor?

The Numinous One · Oct 2, 2005

JennaGlatzer said:
Evaline, trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but your story sounds extremely fishy. Are you saying you've signed a contract with Tor? And that they're allowing you to bind and distribute an unfinished, unedited manuscript at a convention? And you need a volunteer editor (note: what you're asking for isn't a beta reader-- it's a free editor) even though you already have an assigned editor at Tor?

I used to work at Tor, and I can tell you they would absolutely NOT allow any author to self-bind an unedited manuscript that's under contract and distribute it ANYWHERE. She may be a speaker at that convention, but there's no way in hell she's a contracted author at Tor.

brinkett · Oct 6, 2005

contactevaline said:
Well I haven't really signed yet. If you read my bio that they put up for me on Wizards of Words, it says I'm still deciding, but I think I'm going to go with Tor. It's just in the mean time I want to get my book bounded by lulu so I can sell some at the convention and I kind of need someone to fix it up for me, thats all.

I still think this is fishy. Have you spoken to your contact(s) at Tor and asked them what they think about this idea? Or when you say "not signed yet," do you mean you've submitted your book and it's sitting on the slushpile. In any event, if you have any hope of selling your book to a publisher, it's a bad idea to bind and sell copies to the public.

dragonjax · Oct 6, 2005

contactevaline said:
Well I haven't really signed yet. If you read my bio that they put up for me on Wizards of Words, it says I'm still deciding, but I think I'm going to go with Tor. It's just in the mean time I want to get my book bounded by lulu so I can sell some at the convention and I kind of need someone to fix it up for me, thats all.

So, Tor has offered to publish your book, eh? Who's the editor you'll be working with? David? Patrick? Someone else? What genre? And Tor is perfectly okay with you selling your book -- before Tor purchases it -- at a convention? Evaline, this really, really, REALLY sounds like you're trying to pull a fast one. Publishers just don't work this way.

contactevaline said:
Now my question is, I came here to ask for a little bit of help, but instead all you guys seem to be intrested in is catching me in a lie...why is that?

It's not that we're interested in catching you in a lie. It's that your post has set off all sorts of warning bells; you sound suspiciously like a scammer looking for a free edit. Why? Well, see above. You mention Tor as if you have the luxury of simply selecting a publisher like you would decide which restaurant to eat at, and you blithely throw in that your MS still needs editing -- to be "fixed up," as you say -- which practically screams that it was not polished when you submitted it to Tor. By the way, how long did it take for the Tor editor to read your MS from the slush pile?

contactevaline · Oct 6, 2005

Scam? Why would I need to scam for a free edit? Why not just ask, I'm sure someone would want to help without me having to scam for it, and it's not like I'm like scamming for money or something, that I'd have to develope some plot where I lie about Tor wanting my manuscript.

I submitted it to a few publishers and Tor was one that wrote back and sent me a contract, I haven't signed it. I got two offers, it took me three years to get this far and now that I'm here I'd like to take my time and pick which one is best for my manuscript. Is that so wrong? I don't see what's so fishy about that, I mean take colleges for instance. Colleges are hard to get into, but when you get a few that write back to you and say you want to go, you don't just grab whichever one and go, you consider and pick carefully, and that's what I'm doing. I haven't talked to Tor or the other publisher about having my manuscript binded because I didn't feel I need to talk to them about it. It's my manuscript, I wrote it, it belongs to me, and I haven't sold it to them, I haven't signed any contracts, it's still mind, if I wanted to burn it I don't have to write to them and ask them if it's ok, so I didn't think I'd have to write to them to see if it's ok to have it binded and sold for this event. And it was edited and "polished" up to send it to Tor, but now that I'm having it binded and would like to sell it and present it as a professional book, I'd like to have it "checked up" as I said, to make sure that I didn't miss anything, and I would like a full brush up of grammar, spelling etc. Just in case. I was contacted by the same person that I sent my manuscript to: Patrick Nielsen Hayden, or whatever his name is, and as it says in the title of this thread my book is a fantasy. And they took at least nine months, Tor took a bit longer, though they said six months, I had to write to them and ask them after six months and the other one sent it, as I said before in nine months. And since you are all having so much fun playing detective, I’ll humor you, I’ll tell you how I got them to accept my manuscript: Writer’s Market, everything I needed to know was in there, I just followed the steps and got where I wanted to be in three years.

Now, I didn’t come here to be treated like a criminal, I came here to ask for help, I never thought I had to explain myself or say more then what I said in my first post…so much for that!

The Numinous One · Oct 6, 2005

contactevaline said:
Well I haven't really signed yet. If you read my bio that they put up for me on Wizards of Words, it says I'm still deciding, but I think I'm going to go with Tor. It's just in the mean time I want to get my book bounded by lulu so I can sell some at the convention and I kind of need someone to fix it up for me, thats all.

Now my question is, I came here to ask for a little bit of help, but instead all you guys seem to be intrested in is catching me in a lie...why is that?

We weren't interested in catching you in a lie - we DIDN'T want you to be lying. People come to these forums every single day and lie, and do it poorly, and get caught - it gets annoying. However, you state above that you haven't really signed with Tor - this means that your original statement "I’m actually getting it published by Tor Fantasy" is indeed a lie, which you admit above.

That aside, I have to be honest, and tell you that if you have actually been given an offer by Tor, then why in hell would you want to jeopardize the chance to be published by one of the best fantasy publishers in the world? It's utterly INSANE that you would even be considering this - you're telling us that they're offering you money for the right to be the sole publishers and distributors of your novel, but you want to sell the unedited manuscript at a convention? You could be seriously jeopardizing your writing career by doing this. Believe me, I am not lying and I'm not trying to embarrass you - what I'm trying to do is convince you that this is a terrible mistake. If you bind that novel and sell it, it means that they're no longer buying the right to be the first publishers of your work. It means the novel you give to Tor is a reprint. If you don't believe me, call the editor who's supposedly given you this offer, and ask them what you should do. Or, since ReaganBooks doesn't accept unsolicited queries or submissions, your offer from them implies that you have an agent. Ask your agent why you shouldn't be doing this.

If you want to promote your work, tell people they can buy the book when it comes out from a real publisher. That will do more to increase your future sales than selling a few crappily-bound unedited versions of your novel.

The Numinous One · Oct 6, 2005

contactevaline said:
Patrick Nielsen Hayden, or whatever his name is

I know him. I'll give him a buzz for you. I'm sure "whatever his name is" - you know, the editor who's name you can't seem to remember but who's offered to publish your novel - will want to know what you're doing.

dragonjax · Oct 6, 2005

contactevaline said:
Scam? Why would I need to scam for a free edit? Why not just ask, I'm sure someone would want to help without me having to scam for it, and it's not like I'm like scamming for money or something, that I'd have to develope some plot where I lie about Tor wanting my manuscript.

You would be amazed by some of the scams in this industry. Truly. And if you can find someone who will give you a quality edit for free, more power to you.

contactevaline said:
I submitted it to a few publishers and Tor was one that wrote back and sent me a contract, I haven't signed it. I got two offers, it took me three years to get this far and now that I'm here I'd like to take my time and pick which one is best for my manuscript. Is that so wrong?

Silly me. Here I thought Tor was one of those publishers that didn't accept simultaneous submissions.

contactevaline said:
I don't see what's so fishy about that, I mean take colleges for instance. Colleges are hard to get into, but when you get a few that write back to you and say you want to go, you don't just grab whichever one and go, you consider and pick carefully, and that's what I'm doing.

Getting a manuscript accepted by a big publishing house is not at all like getting accepted into a college.

contactevaline said:
I haven't talked to Tor or the other publisher about having my manuscript binded because I didn't feel I need to talk to them about it. It's my manuscript, I wrote it, it belongs to me, and I haven't sold it to them, I haven't signed any contracts, it's still mind, if I wanted to burn it I don't have to write to them and ask them if it's ok, so I didn't think I'd have to write to them to see if it's ok to have it binded and sold for this event.

Er, okay. Go ahead and get it bound and published and distributed/sold. Then go ahead and see if Tor will still accept it for publication. You may want to review your contract very, very carefully though.

contactevaline said:
And it was edited and "polished" up to send it to Tor, but now that I'm having it binded and would like to sell it and present it as a professional book, I'd like to have it "checked up" as I said, to make sure that I didn't miss anything, and I would like a full brush up of grammar, spelling etc. Just in case.

Fair enough; that's why the houses have copy editors.

contactevaline said:
I was contacted by the same person that I sent my manuscript to: Patrick Nielsen Hayden, or whatever his name is, and as it says in the title of this thread my book is a fantasy.

You're right, I forgot the genre was in the thread's title. Sorry about that.

contactevaline said:
And they took at least nine months, Tor took a bit longer, though they said six months, I had to write to them and ask them after six months and the other one sent it, as I said before in nine months.

I don't understand this at all.

contactevaline said:
And since you are all having so much fun playing detective, I’ll humor you, I’ll tell you how I got them to accept my manuscript: Writer’s Market, everything I needed to know was in there, I just followed the steps and got where I wanted to be in three years.

Sure, WM is a very good source.

contactevaline said:
Now, I didn’t come here to be treated like a criminal, I came here to ask for help, I never thought I had to explain myself or say more then what I said in my first post…so much for that!

You know, when you ask for help of such magnitude, and the circumstances are not industry standard, people are going to ask questions. And considering that you started this post asking for a beta reader and what you really wanted was a copy editor, that sends out red flags.

Look, maybe you're the exception to the rule, and the circumstances you're presenting are completely legitimate. If so, congratulations. But I have to tell you, between your posts here and the Wizards of Words connection to Publish America, it seems very unlikely that this is the case.

Whatever; I've had my say. Good luck to you with Tor or Publish America or whoever you're going to choose to publish your book, even after you get it bound and distribute it at your convention.

contactevaline · Oct 6, 2005

wow...I'm going around in circles. It's not there's yet. It's still mine! And when I said I'm auctually getting it published by tor, it means I'm thinking about choosing them, they want my manuscript! And I wanted to have it binded, it's just a binded book! But god...I'm repeting myself here. Seriously though, why are guys really doing this, just for the sake of having something to say? You know most people, when they read something they think is fishy they just ignore it. and I'm trying to hard, but it's just like I can't say it, all you want is to call me a lier. I just wanted help. Now I'm not getting it, so is there anyone to just delete this whole thread?

Now I just wanna say, Numinous, I spelled his name right didn't I? Therefore I did remember it, go ahead give him a buzz, tell on me, yeah I'm sure he'll want to know that I want to bind MY book. I wrote the damn thing! It's mine, and I wanna sell it, I wanna have something to hand out at the convention and Tor, when I sign with them will not have the book printed by then, they take a year!

I just wanted help for godsakes! but it seems to me that you just want to have something to do, you all just want to call me a lier for the sake of it, for whatever your reasons are, I don't know if this is fun for you or something else, but it seems that all you care about. From where I stand it seems as though I said what I need to say, and I know I'm not lying, yet you don't seem to be hearing me, you just don't care what I say, you don't read what I say, you just want to call me a lier. I don't have to prove myself to you. And what's it to you anyway? All of you? all I asked for was a little help, I don't see how helping me would hurt anyone. And is this because Tor wants my book? Is this what bothers you? That Tor wants it? What is it? I don't get it? I read and re-read my first post and all I see is that I said everything anyone needed to know to help my out and nowhere did I say anything that would hurt anyone, but yet here you all are, acting as though I've done something so wrong! I don't get it!

It's my book, I worked hard on it I really did, and all you seem to want to do is call me a lier, now I must ask you: How does this affect you?

contactevaline · Oct 6, 2005

DragonJax, I'm not being published by publish america, the woman whose running it Becca was at the pageant last summer and came up to me and asked me to be a guest speaker. Given my age, I would say I am an exception to many things. And as I explained in the part that you "didn't understand" I sent it to Tor they took longer then 9 months and then we sent them a letter and they still didn't reply so we sent it to others.

contactevaline · Oct 6, 2005

do you read everything that I say or do you just pick what you want to read, because I answered all of your questions several times.

And Perhaps I have a different year of writers market?

And yeah it's a lot of time that I'm asking, so if you aren't intrested don't help me, I was just hoping someone was. I did ask in my title..."is anyone intrested" I didn't force anyone.

And as I keep saying,I just wanted some help, and since one person offered to help, I guess I'm done. I'll delete all my posts and you guys can go on your merry way sticking your noses in someone else's life.

Sheryl Nantus · Oct 6, 2005

let me point out only one thing - almost ALL of the members at this "convention" you're looking to attend are from a notorious author mill and/or vanity press. PublishAmerica is NOT someone you want to be associated with in any way, shape or form and whatever they're offering you is NOT worth sullying your reputation to attend.

as for your manuscript - I wouldn't advise letting ANYONE see it until you get assigned a professional editor by Tor or whoever you end up going with. And please, let it NOT be PublishAmerica. Don't go to this convention.

contactevaline · Oct 6, 2005

awww...thanks, it's nice to finally read a post that isn't filled with negative messages towards me. Yeah I've heard of Publish America, I've never even sent them my manuscript.

fallenangelwriter · Oct 6, 2005

I find it interesting that claiming to be with Tor could be considered a scam to get a critique. for my part, I assumed from the beginning that Evaline was lying, but decided not to make an issue of it. actually, had i belived her, i wouldn't have acceded to the then-illogical request for a critique "before she sends it to tor", since she'd have already sent it to Tor.

I assumed from the beginning that she in fact, merely had a dream of one day being published by Tor- a dream i'd be happy to assist to the best of my rather meagre abilities.

Pthom · Oct 6, 2005

This Thread Is Closed

All right, people, I'm closing yet another thread. The issue is moot, anyway, since Evaline has deleted most of her posts.

I'm a little disappointed that you all think it's necessary to beat the dead horse; once her naiveté was exposed, the entire issue was moot. You guys want to discuss how people get their jollies by prevarication, do so in another forum. After tonight, the next time I see anyone ragging on anyone else for any reason, I will slap a padlock on the thread faster than a ray blaster can burn off the wizard's hat. Take this stuff outside.

Thanks.

This Thread is Closed.

contactevaline

fallenangelwriter

dragonjax

I write stuff and break boards.

victoriastrauss

Writer Beware Goddess

Dawno

Shiny!

dragonjax

I write stuff and break boards.

JennaGlatzer

wishes you happiness

The Numinous One

brinkett

Elder Scrolls devotee

dragonjax

I write stuff and break boards.

contactevaline

The Numinous One

The Numinous One

dragonjax

I write stuff and break boards.

contactevaline

contactevaline

contactevaline

Sheryl Nantus

Holding out for a Superhero...

contactevaline

fallenangelwriter

Pthom

Word butcher