The Nth Comeback of Disney

maestrowork · Dec 4, 2010

Disney's heyday ended in the mid-60s. It went through a very long dark age until its revival with features such as The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, etc. And then it died again after Jeff Katzenberg left for Dreamworks. Pretty much everything after Tarzan was crap.

When John Lasseter went to head Disney animation after a successful run with PIXAR, there was a great hope that Disney will enjoy a new revival. All eyes were on Princess and the Frog, which turned out to be a big disappointment. There's a reason why everyone was skeptical about Tangled. The trailers even looked like a Shrek ripoff.

I was pleasantly surprised. Very much so. Tangled is great. The animation is gorgeous, rivaling anything PIXAR has done, and the story -- while fairytale-like cliched -- is funny and well done, with real emotions. The songs by Alan Menken may not be his best (his peak was during the Beauty and the Beast/Aladdin days), but they're still very good. As an avid animation fan, I was really impressed. Apart from Toy Story 3, it's the best animation feature this year (and I actually liked How to Train Your Dragon and Shrek 4). While Disney missed the mark with Princess and the Frog, they did almost everything right with Tangled.

There were rumors that Lasseter is stopping production on their future fairytales. If that's true, it would be a mistake. Disney must realize story and characters trump everything. The trick though, is whether they're going to be able to reinvent themselves, or if they're going to churn out the same formula. Sure, the boy-meets-girl/adventure story arc may be cliched, but it works for Tangled but not Princess and the Frog. Why? I think if Disney can figure this out, we may be in for another few years of the latest Disney revival.

Kaiser-Kun · Dec 4, 2010

I think The Princess and the Frog, while flawed, was a step in the right direction. It helped that it's message (Work is the way to success, but it's no good if you don't enjoy it) is very important and necessary these days. Way more than "go to sleep and wait until someone kisses you to wake up" or "go have a magically-induced taste of dreams and wait until someone returns your shoe."

jkababy · Dec 4, 2010

Just want to say I thought Tangled was FAB. And I totally agree Maestro, they were at the top of their game in the mid 60s, largely (I would argue) because of the riDICulously talented Sherman brothers. Get that caliber of music back along with today's animation technology, they'll rediscover their own magic.

Toothpaste · Dec 4, 2010

I enjoyed TANGLED a lot, but found the songs really really weak and that distracted me from the rest of the film. I also didn't find the story epic enough or timeless enough to be a true classic. It was, to my mind, a delight. But not a masterpiece. My full review is here if people are curious: http://www.facebook.com/notes/hardcore-nerdity/hcn-review-tangled/177983798880510

Also here's another post I wrote on What Disney Is Doing So Completely Wrong With Its Songs Today: http://www.facebook.com/notes/hardc...ly-wrong-with-its-songs-today/177985125547044

And yeah, Maestro, I heard that too. That the plan is to focus on, surprise, boy centred plots and main characters to get guys interested in their animated features again. Why does everything these days have to be for boys, and why does it mean that girls have to miss out? Sigh.

maestrowork · Dec 4, 2010

But PIXAR is already doing that boy-centric stuff: Cars, the Incredibles, UP (where there are hardly any female characters!), Toy Story, etc. Maybe PIXAR Should stay boy-focused and Disney go wild with the Princess movies? That would be my strategy -- divide and concur.

Storyteller5 · Dec 4, 2010

OF course, the one thing Disney has done that I think was a HUGE step in the right direction was to promise no more sequels to the classics. They shouldn't have done Cinderella 2 and 3, but they won't do Sleeping Beauty 2 or Snow White 2 which is good.

maestrowork · Dec 4, 2010

I'm kind of disappointed that PIXAR is doing Cars 2. I wasn't too impressed with the first one... and C2's trailers look really dumb. What is it, Fast and Furious: Tokyo Anime?

BenPanced · Dec 4, 2010

I've heard two versions of the rumor: they're either going to stop making the fairy-tale stories, or they're going to stop making princess stories. Either way, I have to agree the songs were rather weak; like I did with Aladdin, I immediately knew which song they're going to have nominated for an Oscar. Otherwise, the animation was terrific and the characters were engaging.

dragonjax · Dec 5, 2010

maestrowork said:
I'm kind of disappointed that PIXAR is doing Cars 2. I wasn't too impressed with the first one... and C2's trailers look really dumb. What is it, Fast and Furious: Tokyo Anime?

What the WHAT? Oh no.

maggi90w1 · Dec 5, 2010

I don't know... sometimes I think Disney movies are too funny now... yeas, funny is good, but kids need more then slapstick humor.
Pocahontas, the Lion King, the Hunchback of Notre Dame, Mulan... they were funny as well, but they had much more serious stories then Wall-E or Cars.

dragonjax · Dec 5, 2010

maggi90w1 said:
Pocahontas, the Lion King, the Hunchback of Notre Dame, Mulan... they were funny as well, but they had much more serious stories then Wall-E or Cars.

More serious than Wall-E? That movie all but hit viewers over the head with How Important It Is That We Are Good To Our Environment Because We Only Have One World.

maestrowork · Dec 5, 2010

maggi90w1 said:
I don't know... sometimes I think Disney movies are too funny now... yeas, funny is good, but kids need more then slapstick humor.
Pocahontas, the Lion King, the Hunchback of Notre Dame, Mulan... they were funny as well, but they had much more serious stories then Wall-E or Cars.

Lion King is great because the funny (mostly with Pumba and Timon) works very well with the serious.

Not so much with Mulan or the Hunchback... the humor (especially the dragon, even though I like Mushu and Eddie Murphy enough) is out of place with the rest of the movie, given how dire and serious it is (after all, it's about war and deaths). Don't even start on the gargoyles - they were atrocious and almost ruined Hunchback for me.

defcon6000 · Dec 5, 2010

I still love Mulan for the girl power aspect.

But it never pulled my heart-strings like Lion King did. (now I wanna go watch it!)

As for the rumor, I heard it was princess stories, because like Toothpaste said, they want movies to appeal to both boys and girls.
http://blog.movies.yahoo.com/blog/1...rincess-movies-because-boys-think-theyre-icky

I don't see the issue with princesses, if they made more proactive female heroines and put lots of cool action rather than the girl waiting around for her prince charming, then I think the appeal would be there for boys (and girls who like strong females). They shouldn't just toss it out, they should rework it. That's what evolution is all about.

maestrowork · Dec 5, 2010

Princess stories do carry some burdens, as little boys do tend to resist them: "I don't want to see a Princess movie!" They changed "Rapunzel" to "Tangled" and featured Flynn heavily for a reason, and it worked. It got the boys and their parents into the theater and they realized, they could enjoy a Princess movie, too, if there's enough action and hero stuff (and a crazy horse).

Besides having many flaws, Princess and the Frog failed in the sense that it was marketed as a princess movie. Much of the promotion talked about how they had the first African-American princess, etc. etc. Even the title says Princess. While it wasn't a real box office disaster, it wasn't what they expected either. Boys were heard saying "I don't want to see Princess and the Frog!" It's silly but real.

ceenindee · Dec 5, 2010

I wish the music in Tangled had been better. That was my only complaint about it, because I loved it, but I feel like it couldn't decide if it wanted to be a musical or not.

I'd like to see more movies like this. I don't see why PatF did so poorly, because it felt just like the old-school Disney movies to me. I feel like it's more that the tastes of audiences have moved on, than any fault on the part of the movie.

defcon6000 · Dec 5, 2010

Well that's why I was saying Disney should change it to make princesses appealing to boys. Kickass female leads are all the rage, so why not make a kickass princess? The stigma that boys have an aversion to is that princess stories tend (Disney being guilty of spouting this) to have the princess sitting around, waiting for her prince charming and singing with the cute little woodland creatures. Hell, even I don't want to see that! But it's not too late to change the princess stigma, make princesses more proactive and interesting. Hayao Miyazaki did it with Princess Mononoke so I know it can be done.

Storyteller5 · Dec 5, 2010

I think Disney has to a large degree also lost the great villians in their animated movies. Of the newer ones (Little Mermaid, Alladin, onward), the only really scary at all villian might be Jafar. They have nothing like Malifacent in Sleeping Beauty or the Old Queen/witch in Snow White. I think boys esp would respond more readily to stronger villians.

maestrowork · Dec 6, 2010

charlotte820 said:
I wish the music in Tangled had been better. That was my only complaint about it, because I loved it, but I feel like it couldn't decide if it wanted to be a musical or not.

Personally I think the songs are fine. It takes a few hearing to catch on, but some of them are very catchy. I remember watching Beauty and the Beast for the first time and the only song I could remember is the opening song. But after watching it a second time, the other songs grew on me. Same here. Granted, this is not Alan Menken's best work, but he is a good songwriter/composer regardless.

People are already talking about a Tangled stage musical in a couple of years. So obviously some people think the songs are Broadway quality.

maestrowork · Dec 6, 2010

defcon6000 said:
Well that's why I was saying Disney should change it to make princesses appealing to boys. Kickass female leads are all the rage, so why not make a kickass princess? The stigma that boys have an aversion to is that princess stories tend (Disney being guilty of spouting this) to have the princess sitting around, waiting for her prince charming and singing with the cute little woodland creatures. Hell, even I don't want to see that! But it's not too late to change the princess stigma, make princesses more proactive and interesting. Hayao Miyazaki did it with Princess Mononoke so I know it can be done.

Disney hasn't done that kind of Princess since Beauty and the Beast, though. Even Ariel and Belle are headstrong heroines; they don't just sit around waiting for their dreams to come true.

Granted, the other princesses are all from "boys-friendly" adventures such as Aladdin, Mulan, and Pocahontas. Rapunzel is no different. She shares the screen with Flynn, and that helps to bring the boys into the theater.

The trick, I think, is to have the right villain and sidekicks to keep the boys happy (they really don't care much about the kissing stuff). Princess and the Frog has a weak villain and sidekicks, IMHO. And the relationship between the hero and heroine is forced. In Tangled we have a really good villain and some crazy sidekicks (Maximus is hilarious).

Stormhawk · Dec 6, 2010

Storyteller5 said:
I think Disney has to a large degree also lost the great villians in their animated movies. Of the newer ones (Little Mermaid, Alladin, onward), the only really scary at all villian might be Jafar. They have nothing like Malifacent in Sleeping Beauty or the Old Queen/witch in Snow White. I think boys esp would respond more readily to stronger villians.

...what about Frollo? Hellfire is a scary-as-frack villain song.

maestrowork · Dec 6, 2010

Frollo is a sick F***.

Day O' · Dec 6, 2010

I still love Mulan for the girl power aspect. But it never pulled my heart-strings like Lion King did.

Really? I cry every time at the end of Mulan when she comes home and meets her father. But then I cried (hard) at the end of Toy Story Three when he played with the toys the last time.

Tangled was awesome. The animation alone made it a masterpiece. The music was a shift. I think they were going for a more modern sound, and I did think the song during the lanterns was good. The Frog and the Princess was good not great. I think they spent too much time on New Orleans culture stuff, which didn't bother me, but kids aren't going to find that interesting.

And as far as boys and princesses, my son (now sixteen and forever embarrassed) loved the Little Mermaid from about 2-3 years old. We took him to Disney at about two and a half and all he wanted to do was meet Ariel. When he saw the chick dressed up, he wasn’t very impressed

WCP · Dec 7, 2010

I grew up loving Disney in the 80's...I can't watch cartoons anymore though

Kandybar · Dec 8, 2010

Why not?

maestrowork · Dec 8, 2010

WCP said:
I grew up loving Disney in the 80's...I can't watch cartoons anymore though

Can't or won't?

And I don't call them "cartoons" anymore. There are animated features to me.

The Nth Comeback of Disney

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