High School English Class

I graduated from high school in 2005. From what I remember of my English classes, we would have regular quizzes that would ask finicky questions to make sure that we had completed the reading assignment (We would usually get a month or 6 weeks to read the whole book, and assigned pages for each week, and this was a check to make sure you weren't reading the whole book the night before). But the test at the end of the book would be about the book as a whole, the symbolism and theme and stuff.

My English classes were similar to yours except that we read The Great Gatsby, Fahrenheit 451 and To Kill a Mockingbird (which I could not bring myself to read, the writing consistently knocking me to sleep on the first page that I ended up bluffing my way through the whole section.) I can't imagine having to be focusing on the details in the story - that sounds like something from Grade 6.

Yeah my English classs was similiar to yours. I would think that it depends really on the teacher. There was another English teacher at my high school who would ask those same stupid questions that were impossible to answer.

I think teachers often throw in things like that to make sure the students actually read the book... and didn't just go online to Monkey Notes or somewhere similar.

Smish said:

I think teachers often throw in things like that to make sure the students actually read the book... and didn't just go online to Monkey Notes or somewhere similar.

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I'm in my final year of my undergrad English degree, and colour of a car isn't exactly what I'm looking to take notice of.

I finished school in 2000, I remember reading Death of a Salesman, The Color Purple, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Othello, The Remains of the Day, Cat's Eyes and Great Expectations.

gothicangel said:

I'm in my final year of my undergrad English degree, and colour of a car isn't exactly what I'm looking to take notice of.

I finished school in 2000, I remember reading Death of a Salesman, The Color Purple, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Othello, The Remains of the Day, Cat's Eyes and Great Expectations.

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I agree with you. I'm just speculating about why a teacher may do that.

The thing is that questions about 'theme, irony etc' can be answered correctly by simply reading sparknotes. But sparknotes doesn't give you the details they're looking for in sneaky tests

I speak from experience, I aced lots of tests on books without having read a single word of them. That was in both native German and native English classes.

The way I remember high school in the US, it was not about unnecessary details. It really is better to learn that way! But it also gives room for the lazy students to not do the work haha.

Actually, I must say the German classes were more about details and less about important things, but that might just be because I hated them and am thus biased.

Maryn said:

I answer a lot of questions at Yahoo Answers Books & Authors section, although I won't do kids' homework for them. (I will guide them in a direction which will lead them to discover the answers for themselves.)

What I see a whole lot of, from current high school students, are

• the person asking the question has not read the book and has no intention of reading the book, now or ever.
• teachers' attempts to assign projects or ask questions which seek to engage the students in a way other than straight reading. Examples include coming up with a musical score to accompany the book, designing a book's cover art for a new edition, drawing characters or settings, etc.
• teachers' questions seeking not insight into the books themes, plot, literary devices, and such but merely finding questions which only those who did the assigned reading can answer correctly.

My general impression is that fewer students today attempt to read materials which challenge them even slightly, instead turning to online notes and study guides, question-and-answer forums, and such to complete assignments.

Maryn, wondering who we're writing for

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Years ago when I was in high school it was the same. There were two, sometimes three of us in class who actually read the books. Everyone else got by on Cliff Notes or reading the first twenty pages and trying to get us to tell them what happened so they could fake it. It was pathetic. And yes, I actually did read every freaking word of David Copperfield.

So this isn't really anything new. It also happens in college. I was a lit major, and you'd be amazed how few people actually read the books. Granted, we had a really tough reading load (about 200 words per class, so every other day), but still, a lot of people just didn't make the effort.

I can understand a teacher asking questions like that to make sure students actually read, and personally I'd probably be tempted to do the same. However if those are the only questions being asked, this is a hell of a disservice. I at least had to write essays concerning motivation and theme and use critical thinking skills.

Too many kids cheat and use Cliff Notes, or just read a lengthy review. Detail question that aren't in Cliff Notes or reviews make sure the kid actually reads the book.

But even in college, we had to remember such details. Such tests are not impossible, they just mean you have to read, and you have to pay attention to what you read.

Every test I've seen in recent years still had a fair number of story/plot/character/meaning questions, but they also have enough detail questions to make sure the student, high school or college, has actually read the book.

And learning to remember the small details is important. It's a skill anyone can learn, and one that serves the person well in every sort of class. And in every sort of business once real life starts.

My head is obviously filled too much with themes, plot, characterization etc because I couldn't tell you any of those details.

I can give you an essay on the manifestations of capitalism in American Psycho, but couldn't tell you what colour Bateman's eyes are.

I must be doing this reading thing wrong.

kaitie said:

I can understand a teacher asking questions like that to make sure students actually read, and personally I'd probably be tempted to do the same. However if those are the only questions being asked, this is a hell of a disservice. I at least had to write essays concerning motivation and theme and use critical thinking skills.

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Sparknote, Scotnotes, York Notes aren't exhaustive. How about the teacher throws a curve ball and ask something that isn't in the cheat guides?

I'm currently writing on The Testament of Gideon Mack, and whether it can be read as psychological as well as supernatural. There is nothing written on it, so I'm relying on my own reading skills.

I've never had to memorize tiny details like car color in reading for English, and my classes required remembering every little happening in the book (as well as theme, etc.).

But I had a (native) French professor who threw in some strange verb and vocab one test. We couldn't figure out where he got it. We knew 6 chapters worth of the book and still missed things. Turns out it was in one of the little cartoons at the bottom of some pages!

By the time we were in high school, very few of our tests were the simple answer sort. Daily quizzes, sure, but not the tests. With tests you got a short section of questions to make sure you knew who the characters were, then the rest were paragraph essays and full essays - and those were about theme, etc.

We also had a teacher who would automatically confiscate Cliffs/Spark/etc notes and fail you on the assignment for using them instead of reading if she saw them. Now, it's easier with online versions, but teachers also have the option (if they have the time and energy) to enter suspect passages into a filter and see if they were cut and pasted from already posted material.

The only assigned book I couldn't force myself to read was Robinson Crusoe (I fell asleep on every page). I had my mom go to WalMart and buy the "kids" version which is seriously shortened and got by with that. Ironically, one of the very few specific details I read, was different in the kids version, and ended up on the test.

I am absolutely perplexed by what my son does in high school English. I don't think they even did a book! And he's in the advanced stream. They studied a poem last year, that I recall. Just...it flipped me out. Whenever he talked about what he was doing in English, I'm moan THAT'S NOT ENGLISH!?!?!?!?! I'm totally confused. No novels. What the fuck? I mean, really? We'll see what happens in Grade 10...he's due to start English in the new year.

PS: High School English LITERALLY saved my life. I was bullied and picked on by students and teachers 24/7 in high school...until I walked in to my English classrooms. I was always the teacher's pet and they always saved my life. It was amazing. Through high school...the English teachers saved me. They'll never know how true that is.

Yeah, my experience in both HS and college English was similar to everyone's here. Even in the good classes with passionate, engaging teachers, they'd throw out those stupid "What color was her blouse?" questions to make sure you read.

I remember in particular an otherwise fun Women's Lit course where the teacher, despite being young, smart, canny, and astute, would try to catch us with those Did You Really Read It? questions.

And I just thought, what's the point? If we didn't, you're not going to make us want to read by trying to catch us when we don't. The kids who don't want to (or don't have time to--most of my classmates worked) won't change. Some portion of your students are just going to be there for the easy class credit. Shouldn't you focus on the ones who are there because they actually care about the subject?

In that teacher's case, I think it's because she was young that she tried to catch cheaters. She thought she could make a difference, convert some of them to readers. Older humanities professors were much more lax, and they let the I'm Just Here For the Easy Credit kids do their thing while engaging with the kids who were actually passionate about the material.

Of course this assumes we're talking about undergrad classes. I can't imagine this goes on in graduate English programs.

If I were teaching and had to choose between a student getting the meat from sparknotes or the fluff from reading, I'd got for the meat. Then maybe I'd save the A's for students who could take a scene apart (let them choose from a list) and show how it relates to the whole work.

Meanwhile, see schmoop.com if you like book reports better than book reviews.

Xelebes said:

- that sounds like something from Grade 6.

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No, in Grade 6 here in NJ (or at least in the class I was teaching the other day) we touched on tone and symbolism - and it was going to be part of their benchmark tests, so it was a pretty important lesson. It was nothing in depth, but they still had to know what it was and identify both.

They also ask about it on the state tests in 6th grade. So I don't know what's going on there.

kaitie said:

Years ago when I was in high school it was the same. There were two, sometimes three of us in class who actually read the books. Everyone else got by on Cliff Notes or reading the first twenty pages and trying to get us to tell them what happened so they could fake it. It was pathetic. And yes, I actually did read every freaking word of David Copperfield.

So this isn't really anything new. It also happens in college. I was a lit major, and you'd be amazed how few people actually read the books. Granted, we had a really tough reading load (about 200 words per class, so every other day), but still, a lot of people just didn't make the effort.

I can understand a teacher asking questions like that to make sure students actually read, and personally I'd probably be tempted to do the same. However if those are the only questions being asked, this is a hell of a disservice. I at least had to write essays concerning motivation and theme and use critical thinking skills.

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I graduated from high school in 2004 and college in 2007 and we had the same problem of kids cheating with cliff notes and other online shortened version. In high school we were quizzed on small details to make sure that we'd read the assignment, then had a big test on the book as a whole (symbolism, characterization, etc..) in college, we didn't get tested, so much as just have to write an essay on a theme from the book and analyze passages.

I have no idea what kind of questions they asked. I'm pretty sure we read things like Faulkner, Hemingway, and Steinbeck. I know they tried to make me read Shakespeare. But to be honest, I failed English. I found the reading parts terribly boring and usually didn't bother. Luckily, I enjoyed the writing part and that helped pull my grade up to a passing D.

As far as my own son, he said they just finished some short stories and are now reading "Animal Farm." But getting anything else out of him is like pulling teeth.

Smish said:

I think teachers often throw in things like that to make sure the students actually read the book... and didn't just go online to Monkey Notes or somewhere similar.

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Yeah, they do. My novel is on high school reading programs and student book reports are designed to make sure they've read the whole book not just skimmed it.

ishtar'sgate said:

My novel is on high school reading programs

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Wow, that is so cool. That just strikes me as really great.

Huh...I'll have to say that my daughter's 4th grade class perplexes me enough...she was getting algebra homework but then the school went to a new system where no one is allow above a 2 grade and she's back to Junie B jones Kindergarten books and basic addition.

The girl is reading the Harry Potter books, Narnia and plans to read the Golden Compass and the Hobbit next. She knows division and multiplication. So the school decisions make no sense but they all they'll tell me at school is that it is the new Colorado school plan.

When I was in high school English it also saved me. I got a lot of encouragement, we read classics, poetry and short stories. I don't know what they do now.

juniper said:

Wow, that is so cool. That just strikes me as really great.

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Yes, it is. Sorry about your little guy. See you lost him/her last month.