So did you guys hear what James Frey is up to now?

Yea I read a few articles on this.
Meh.
I don't expect any different from him.

And, as this is a new thread on James Frey, it's worth clarifying for the unaware that this dipshit is NOT the same person as James N. Frey, author of such well-known writing books as How to Write a Damn Good Novel. The latter is an above-board respected writer and teacher of writing.

Is this another author bashing thread then?

How about discussing either his work and/or the MFA programme instead?

What is being bashed is that this gentleman is trolling MFA programs with a predatory and exploitative contract. Which he is.

gothicangel said:

Is this another author bashing thread then?

How about discussing either his work and/or the MFA programme instead?

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He's a publicly-outed charlatan, on roughly the same level as PA, and God knows we have plenty of threads on PA. His "work" has been proved fraudulent, and his "programme" is a blatant scam.

gothicangel said:

Is this another author bashing thread then?

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Is it? That ba***** James Patterson then.

Hold on, that was rhetorical, right?

Well, this guy has a different take...

http://www.elephantjournal.com/2010/11/the-truth-about-publishingas-demonstrated-by-james-frey/

I can see his points, but the sheer fact that any author signing with Frey cannot claim the work does not help the author in the long run.

Name recognition and past credits are very important to an author and if you can not query and agent and list past publications with FFF, then your still a no body.

And the 30% profits, I wonder if they are list or net because as we know, net never makes a profit...

I know a lot of people who have completed their MFA at Columbia, and many who are still working on theirs. Frankly, I'm surprised that this sort of gig would be appealing to them. An MFA is essentially a terminal degree (like a PhD) and you graduate with a dissertation, which almost always gets published by some University press (usually your university press). People who go for these degrees (much like people who go for PhDs) often do so because they want a career in academia - teaching, researching, writing. If you want to publish commercial fiction, an MFA isn't going to give you much of an advantage over others who don't have that degree. So, I'm really surprised that MFA students would be so enticed by an offer to co-write the next Twilight, as the article puts it. I doubt that this scheme will really catch on.

gothicangel said:

Is this another author bashing thread then?

How about discussing either his work and/or the MFA programme instead?

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Ha ha ha - you're funny!

veinglory said:

What is being bashed is that this gentleman is trolling MFA programs with a predatory and exploitative contract. Which he is.

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Yet the OP is embellished with attacks on an author. We all know what he did in the past. Time to get over it.

This thread has yet to begin discussing the details of the MFA and publishing contract.

gothicangel said:

Yet the OP is embellished with attacks on an author. We all know what he did in the past. Time to get over it.

This thread has yet to begin discussing the details of the MFA and publishing contract.

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I don't see what this has to do with the MFA program. It's a very standard program, and has been around forever. Reading the article, I don't think that the MFA is partaking in any sort of relationship or agreement with Frey. It seems like he just came to talk to one class, where he made his offer. That is totally legit. Speakers come to classes all the time - it doesn't mean that the University or the department endorse what they say.

sleepsheep said:

Speakers come to classes all the time - it doesn't mean that the University or the department endorse what they say.

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From the OP:

New York magazine did a scathing exposé on how Columbia University's MFA program invited James Frey to come talk to its desperate-to-be-published students about joining his "fiction factory," which offers exploitative book contracts that are on the level with Publish America and other pubs of ill repute.

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if you read the whole article you can see how sleazy the contract he wants everyone to sign is. Yea its a long article, many pages, but worth the read.

I only hope that the MFA read any contract they may get very carefully.

And, as this is a new thread on James Frey, it's worth clarifying for the unaware that this dipshit is NOT the same person as James N. Frey, author of such well-known writing books as How to Write a Damn Good Novel. The latter is an above-board respected writer and teacher of writing.

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Thank you! I really liked James N. Freys books (best how-to books on writing I read so far) and was quite upset about the news until I read your post.

blacbird said:

New York magazine did a scathing exposé on how Columbia University's MFA program invited James Frey to come talk to its desperate-to-be-published students about joining his "fiction factory," which offers exploitative book contracts that are on the level with Publish America and other pubs of ill repute.

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Right, but the article states that he came on the invitation of the Professor. Columbia, and other major Universities, invite all sorts of people to talk - it doesn't mean that the University endorses that person's points of view or is in any sort of professional relationship with them. I was at Columbia when Ahmadinejad came to talk... this was all discussed (locally) ad nauseam then.

There's a thread about this also in Bewares: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196528

And here are some very articulate articles about why the contract Frey offers is terrible:

http://www.maureenjohnsonbooks.com/2...-frey-problem/

http://ktliterary.com/2010/11/ask-da...ook-packagers/

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/11/13/the-man-in-the-frey-flannel-suit/


Gothic, I think the reason you won't see a lot of Frey love when it comes to this particular scheme of his is that it is quite terrible and very very difficult to find a positive side to it. Well, I guess you could praise Frey for his business ability to treat YA as an easy to produce product, the readership as easy to manipulate, and authors easy to take advantage of, while making himself buckloads of money. Read these articles and you'll see just how awful the contract truly is.

I know there's a respect your fellow author thing here, but when Frey shows such obvious contempt towards authors with such a contract and scheme, he is hardly worth my respect. I truly see him a very very nasty person.

I have come to expect no less from the F word. His book was disgracefully terribly written (ooh...2 ly words in a row! i amaze me). I threw it across the room way before he was stripped of his dignity by being caught in a lie. The F word can't write. Anybody foolish enough to grab on to those asshairs deserve what they get.

leahzero said:

But it does. The students in the MFA program at Columbia don't have any classes that teach them how to not get scammed by the plethora of publishing scams out there. In fact, the program pretty much ignores the business side of writing entirely to focus on the art. So when the university brings in a published author to speak about the writing biz, that speaker enjoys the patina of legitimacy granted by the university's invitation.

As proof of how seriously the students took it, look at how many of them signed up for the contract--which is, self-evidently, incredibly exploitative.

It's not just one school, either. He's been cruising MFA programs in other schools. FTA:

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That's not really a fair statement. It's a theoretical program, and I don't think it's necessary to include "the business of publishing contracts" courses in what is essentially an academic doctorate. But, the students are allowed to take 12 credits outside of their program (in fact, they MUST take 6 credits outside of their program) and there is nothing to stop them from taking these classes at the law school or the business school if they really feel that it's necessary to know so much about contracts and business matters. But, I do agree that the contract is exploitative, but I don't think the University is to blame. As I mentioned in a comment above - I was at Columbia when Mahmoud Ahmadinejad came to talk. If, after hearing his speech, a bunch of students renounced their citizenship and moved to Iran to join a militant organization, the University couldn't have been to blame, and same thing here - what Frey was offering was lousy and exploitative, but I don't think that the University or the MFA program should be held responsible for the actions of adult graduate students.