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lovenest3
11-09-2010, 06:44 PM
Is there any agents out there specialising in Modern fiction and Video Game novels. This is a issue that I am haven with my new book the ProGammer which is getting no love from anyone. I dont understand this in a Era where one video game Franchies is worth more than 3 nfl teams combined and 30 something generation has embrassed it with full force. Anyone know agents who represent this type of work or want to talk about the issues they personaly have encountered.

People think the literary industry should be cutting edge and up to date on current events but I have found that the literary industry is harder to change than any other industry in the world.

lovenest3
11-09-2010, 07:00 PM
Why does agents turn there nose up to books about a world of Professional Video Gammers or Video Game novels in general. Also is there a agent out there representing these books.

Cathy C
11-09-2010, 07:13 PM
If you're talking about novels based on existing video games, there's a reason why agents aren't interested. It's a violation of copyright law for anyone to write a novel based on an existing world without the express, written permission of the person/company who created the reality. It's called a "derivative right" and is discussed on the U.S. Copyright Office's website, here. (http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-fairuse.html)

Now, if you're looking for an agent to take on a new video game that you've written, that's a whole different thing. There is an emerging class of agents who are looking at marketing games. Unfortunately, I don't know much about them. But I'm sure someone with more expertise in that will wander by. We have a few tech gurus here who probably know about that sort of thing. :)

Good luck.

Susan Littlefield
11-09-2010, 07:35 PM
Welcome, Lovenest. :)

Cathy is right- it is violation of copyright law to publish a novel based on existing video games. I think it would be considered sort of like fan fiction, but I'm not sure. Is the novel based on you own video game?

For your novel, I would suggest just going to querytracker.com and searching there. It's free, you can put in a search term, and go from there.

suki
11-09-2010, 10:05 PM
Cathy's deadon regarding novelizations based on existing game worlds. But if you are looking for representation for an original game world you have created, then I think you may not want a literary agent, even if you are looking to market books based on the games.

I'd guess most agents repping video games (and the marketing tie ins and accompanying novels, etc) are not really listed as literary agents. I'd bet they come from some other aspect of entertainment representation. So...you might be looking in the wrong place. ;)

Where would you find such agents? I have no idea, but I would doubt they would call themselves literary agents.

lovenest3
11-09-2010, 10:59 PM
I meant books that talk about the Gammer of video games and there life style. As in the MLG or Major league gaming. See in the Book the ProGammer it talks about a professional video gamer life and what happens when he is out casted from the pro series. It all works out in the end with him working for a elite game developing company and rejoining the pro video Gaming circuit. Also I recently gotten a closed status from the Copyright office so I know my work is lugitamently all mine by law.

Cathy C
11-09-2010, 11:02 PM
So are you thinking more along the lines of a memoir of an existing professional gamer who has made it to the top and was featured in an article, or a how-to (self-help) book on becoming a pro gamer like the person featured in the magazine? They're two different kinds of agents because they would be in different parts of a bookstore.

lovenest3
11-09-2010, 11:06 PM
I only found one person who is highly intrested in the novel but has yet to send me a reply back on the book and her name is Holly McGhee. I checked her website out and only found out that she was into children books and dont know as of right now why she wanted to read my book. Holly is a literary agent and I am not going to argue with anyone that likes my work.

Still I worry about my second book that I want mention due to its not copyrighted yet. This book is also based in modern fiction current events.

suki
11-09-2010, 11:16 PM
You don't have to copyright novels. And if it's a novel, it's a novel. It shouldn't matter that the characters are gamers. Query agents looking for contemporary fiction.

I've seen novels with aspects of gaming in them.

~suki

lovenest3
11-09-2010, 11:21 PM
The book is a fiction novel loosely based on a story I read from a ESPN magazine article of professional video gamer life style. I just used the article as a base and then built a fictional story around it.

lovenest3
11-09-2010, 11:24 PM
Suki there is now due to someone took the premis from me and its snow balling from there. I had Copyright put in over a year ago and have yet to read one book with story based characters of video gamers.

suki
11-09-2010, 11:24 PM
If it is fiction, then query agents representing commercial fiction. There should be a lot of them.

Now, if you only changed a few bits here and there, you could have an issue. But if it's really fiction, then it's fiction. And you won't find agents who list "gaming novels." You'll have to look for agents who rep commercial fiction, or mainstream fiction, etc.

But, if you're striking out, it might be the query, or the writing, rather than the subject matter. So...get some critique on the query and the manuscript to be sure.

~suki

suki
11-09-2010, 11:26 PM
Suki there is now due to someone took the premis from me and its snow balling from there. I had Copyright put in over a year ago and have yet to read one book with story based characters of video gamers.

I've seen novels with gamers as caracters. Look harder, they're there. :)

And you can't copyright the concept of gamers as characters.

And no, you don't need to copyright a work of fiction until it is published,

Do more research, and read more widely. :)

~suki

Kitty Pryde
11-09-2010, 11:38 PM
For The Win and Little Brother by cory doctorow are about video gamers. So is tad williams' Otherland series. And vernor vinge's last novel. There are plenty of others too.

I would suggest you post your query letter in the share your work section, and maybe your first chapter as well. From your posts, it seems like you might have some writing mechanics issues (such as spelling gamer as 'gammer'), which would mean an automatic rejection from an agent no matter how thrilling your story. Good luck!

lovenest3
11-10-2010, 12:41 AM
Ok on the subject of the title ProGammer. This is no diffrent than that of your local Gamme stop where you buy video games. Titles of books and stores have always been manipulated to give it more of a distinguished look. Whats next the literary nazi police is going to make Toys R us invert the R correctly. Another thing the greatest of all authors get this made up words due to there wasnt words to describe certain events or actions. FYI there is no rules in literary and if you base your reading material off of this espically when it comes to reading poetry you will never read a true one off enjoyable piece of literature.

lovenest3
11-10-2010, 12:43 AM
I ask the question was anyone confused when they saw the title ProGammer. NO but you did get a good dose of personality and orginality.

lovenest3
11-10-2010, 12:45 AM
I kinda granted a One month exclusive with a agent at pippen properties and not till I get some word back will I Post anything online. If it werent for that then I would be more than glad to.

CaroGirl
11-10-2010, 12:53 AM
I ask the question was anyone confused when they sall the title ProGammer as to what it meant in any ways. NO but you did get a good dose of personality and orginality.
YES! I thought it was either supposed to be ProGamer, as in a professional gamer, or ProGrammer, as in a video game programmer. The way you have it spelled is confusing because it isn't either.

suki
11-10-2010, 12:54 AM
I assumed it was a careless spelling error.

lovenest3
11-10-2010, 12:55 AM
I disagree with not copyrighting your material due to people will write over your work all day long. I feel that my work has already been over written due to simply watchen tv etc. There is no laws against writing over someones work so all the more reason to copyright. I dont trust a single human in the literary industry and please let me give examples. Every movie out there is done by one major film company then you get a exact movie release at almost the exact time about the same subject that is nothing more than slight deviations. We accept this with in society and its ok but come on give a man a dollar for his work for crying out loud.

lovenest3
11-10-2010, 12:58 AM
Why dont you people argue with the people at GAMMESTOP about this issue realy come on now. LET IT GO!

Calla Lily
11-10-2010, 01:03 AM
"Gammestop" appears to be the Franch translation of "Gamestop" in English.

suki
11-10-2010, 01:06 AM
Why dont you people argue with the people at GAMMESTOP about this issue realy come on now. LET IT GO!

Um, lovenest, you're the one who asked?



I ask the question was anyone confused when they saw the title ProGammer. NO but you did get a good dose of personality and orginality.


If you don't want to hear people's opinions, don't ask.

Now, you are new here, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. But, I suggest that (1) you spend some time here reading various threads (for example, there are some great ones on copyright), and (2) you don't ask questions or post statements if you aren't ready for people to disagree with you.

And welcome to AW. No one here is attacking you - we are attempting to respond to your questions and statements. And so far, what we seem to be saying is:

- stories about gamers (however you spell it) are not new.
- you query them like every other kind of novel.
- if this exclusive doesn't work out, you might want to get some critique on your query (in Query letter hell, in Share Your Work).

And good luck to you.

~suki

rainsmom
11-10-2010, 01:10 AM
Um, I just googled Gammestop and didn't find it anywhere. I found GameStop (which I use myself).

So I googled Gamme, and this is what I found:

* French word meaning range, variety, line of products, musical scale
* GAMME as an acronym: Gaming, Anime, Music, and Manga Exhibition
* GAMME as an acronym for a lab in the Computer Science department in a college in Montreal

What I did not find was anyplace where gamme is a correct (or even alternative) spelling of game.

All that said -- we're just trying to help. You joined a board where people give advice on writing, and you've made statements that we've identified as not being correct. For example, you had an idea and now someone else is running with it. Unless you gave that person a detailed outline, chances are that story will be COMPLETELY different from yours. TWILIGHT and the Charlaine Harris "Sookie Stackhouse" novels are both about women who fell in love with vampires, and discovered their world is filled with more supernatural types than they ever dreamed... but LITTLE else is even remotely similar. Copyrighting your story will not stop someone from taking the premise and running with it in a different direction. It will stop them only from using your words.

Are you planning to submit to publishers in the US or in France?

Cathy C
11-10-2010, 01:11 AM
There is no laws against writing over someones work so all the more reason to copyright

Actually, there is. The whole of copyright law in the United States is based on not allowing an author to steal the written word of another author. Now, what's NOT protected is "ideas." You can't copyright an idea, even if you write it down. All you can protect is the dialogue and narrative on the page, in the order the words are written. If that's what you mean by "writing over someone's work" then even copyrighting it won't help.

However, if you're located in a different country (such as France) then the rules are entirely different. So it might help to know where you're located before we offer any more advice.

lovenest3
11-10-2010, 01:14 AM
Derivative right actualy was enforced that means Barrak Obama owes into the billions due to everyone one of his speeches has been traced back to another authors material.

Cathy C
11-10-2010, 01:27 AM
Then those authors would have to sue, and Obama would have to have deemed to profit from the words. That's how it works and why it normally ONLY works with authors. In most cases, the "profit" is missing and the court has nothing to base a judgment on.

veinglory
11-10-2010, 01:37 AM
Also rather little of his speeches are word-for-word from other writers unless it was provided by that writer or an quote of that writer. The most resonant phrases are essentially cliches without a single creator.

But we were talking about novels. Novels about gamers. I agree, submit to agents for whatever your over-arching genre is (e.g. YA, contemp., mainstream). And make sure your query has been well edited.

lovenest3
11-10-2010, 02:28 AM
Thats just it most writers dont know when they have been ripped off hence there is people who writen some twenty seven books and only one could speculate that some or not all them are theres if any of them. Even if they know about the situation they still have to sue and sometimes were not in a situation to pay a lawyer the ten grand to get legal action started. There are billion books out there if someone stole anoter peson book odds are they could get away with it clean. This doesnt even touch the china and asain world where illegal copies of harry potter and other great novels have turned up.

lovenest3
11-10-2010, 02:38 AM
Thanks for the communication and support its nice to know there is others out there that want to help and contribute to the world. I know I am not the orgin of this but I truly belive in the symbonic circle as to what one man does directly affects everyone else in some way.

rainsmom
11-10-2010, 02:42 AM
If you publish, you are at a risk for piracy. Yes. The alternative is simple: don't publish. Write for yourself. If you want to publish, you have to take risks: you have to put your work out there to be read, to be evaluated.

I put my energy into writing the best manuscript I can, polishing it, writing the best query, and getting my work accepted by an agent. That's a long road in and of itself -- and that's before the agent even tries to sell it. That road can be even longer! Piracy and copyright infringement are, frankly, not even on my radar at this point.

lovenest3
11-10-2010, 02:50 AM
I still think the title ProGammer gives it a unique character all its own but if it came down to getting published or not it would definetaly go to ProGamer. Though anything in my book is up for revision or alterations in order to get published and understand its a business of making money. Though I can understand how people can be so critical to others when they know with out a shadow of a doubt there attempting to express indivisual artistic expresson.

rainsmom
11-10-2010, 03:07 AM
I think the biggest issue is that ProGammer reads like a typo [programmer]. What you don't ever want to do is *confuse* the reader -- agent, editor, or otherwise. And that's guaranteed to.

What you could do is come up with an alternative, and then when you get to the point where you're talking titles with a publisher, put ProGammer out there. Ultimately, titles aren't in your control anyway unless you self-publish.

Haggis
11-10-2010, 03:26 AM
Lovenest, I promise I won't steal your book.

Honest. :)

Susan Littlefield
11-10-2010, 06:41 AM
Lovenest, I promise I won't steal your book.

Honest. :)

That's not what I heard....:evil :D

Calla Lily
11-10-2010, 06:45 AM
Little dogs. Can't trust 'em. They wag their stubby little tails, whine for pets, and then they snatch the manuscript from your unsuspecting hands.

Probably shouldn't have smeared the top page with bacon...

kullervo
11-10-2010, 08:24 AM
Your problems with querying might have nothing to do with the subject of your book and everything to do with your query and sample. I'll ask, since nobody else will: is English your first language?

lovenest3
11-10-2010, 09:39 PM
Though a dog holding a syrenge does bring up a personal oath of mine to boycott all sports that athletes get there talent from a syrenge.

I my Query process I have run into the new meeting the old in agents as in they all want something diffrent and are never clear as to exactly what they want in a query letter. The agents think you already are suppose to know whats in a query letter or some magicaly know what there looking for. The worse query letter I ever wrote seems to get the most attention so I have kept it that way.

Now what people run into today is the OLD school agent VS the new School agent so the query letter is more of a mystery today than ever before. I have written a book for modern up to date agents so its writen accordingly.
Let the bashing begin!

ProGammer November 10, 2010
John T.
58508 word count
706
Fiction: A book/film that fits on any shelf from romance, to action, and comedy.
I John Morrison request permission to submit my manuscript for your evaluation.
Dear Dumass,
It’s a true high octane story of a professional video gamer named Charlie that loses it all but manages to make it back on top with an unusual side order of romance along the way. This story has it all cars, romance, betrayal and a coming of age story that is truly uniquely told. It’s a real comedy that brings the reality of life that we take things for granted and sometimes that ends up putting us in situations we never would have predicted.

Sincerely,
John
Service Tech. holds degree in industrial system technology /Author

Calla Lily
11-10-2010, 09:44 PM
lovenest: You might want to delete your address and phone number from the above post. This is not a password-protected forum.

Also, this really belongs in Query Letter Hell, in the Share Your Work forum (password = vista).

CaroGirl
11-10-2010, 09:50 PM
lovenest: You might want to delete your address and phone number from the above post. This is not a password-protected forum.

Also, this really belongs in Query Letter Hell, in the Share Your Work forum (password = vista).
Before you repost this in the Share Your Work (SYW) forum, in the Query Letter Hell (QLH) area, please read all the stickies at the top of the QLH forum. They're there to help authors understand what most agents are looking for in a query. What you've posted doesn't match.

Also, read through other posted queries and responses to get a better idea of how the process works.

lovenest3
11-10-2010, 09:55 PM
For the record I dont think anyone is going to steal my work. I have been requested a One month exclusive this is why I have reframed from putting any sample chapters up or synopsis. Though the agent hasnt sent me anything back and the one month is over at the end of this week so maybe soon I will put something up.

Also for the Record I understand all stories are realy all the same and every book ever writen could be summed up in two words. STRUGGLE / RESOLUTION

Soccer Mom
11-10-2010, 09:56 PM
I am not going to move this query. Lovenest3, feel free to post it there yourself. First you might want to check the grammar and spelling.

Dumbass has a "b" in it.

rainsmom
11-10-2010, 10:03 PM
The agents think you already are suppose to know whats in a query letter or some magicaly know what there looking for.
John, they likely do expect that, because that information is easily available to anyone who looks for it. It's available all over the Web for free and in lots of books and magazines. (There are numerous books written on that subject specifically.)

Doing your research about an industry means you're approaching it like a *professional*. Yes, agents want to work with people who are educated about the industry, who know what to expect, who can take criticism and rejection.

Post your query in the Share Your Work section -- but be prepared for hard criticism. LISTEN to them. Have you run your manuscript through a critique group or experienced beta readers? If not, you might want to start there.

When you submit to agents, you're competing against the best of the best (as well as all the rest!). Their stats show that they request pages from something like 1% of the queries they receive -- and choose to represent about 1% of those. They don't grab "unpolished gems." They look for manuscripts that are truly the best in terms of premise, execution, voice, and mechanics.

Very, very, very few people get their first novel published. There's an adage that a writer has to write a million words before he's ready for publication. Write. Send it to critique. Learn. Rewrite. Rinse and repeat. This is not an easy road.

rainsmom
11-10-2010, 10:06 PM
Also, John, I have concern about the agent you've mentioned. Have you checked that person out at Preditors and Editors? Please do!! The only thing worse than reject is being taken by a scammer.

Calla Lily
11-10-2010, 10:15 PM
Dumbass has a "b" in it.

Soccer Mom, you owe me a keyboard.

Soccer Mom
11-10-2010, 10:22 PM
Lovenest3, you've gotten some good advice. I'm going to lock this now.