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NeuroFizz
08-17-2005, 05:11 PM
(Mod note - this thread was split from a TIO discussion)



I can easily sell 400 - 500 that at my university alone



Are you thinking about using the book as a required text for a class? If so, you are making a huge ethical mistake. Any time an instructor requires a text from which he/she directly profits, an alternative must be given so the students have a choice. If there is no alternative, the instuctor better pass it all by an administrator or two before forcing the students to buy.

If the book isn't being used as any kind of required material for students, disregard my post.

Epicman
08-18-2005, 07:31 AM
Aconite - I love constructive criticism. The friends I have that always play nice-nice dont get my ms's to proof and critique - I prefer colleagues who give it to me in my face - that makes for stronger writing - especially in non-fiction. Anyhow I did personalize each email and checked to be sure that each agency that I submitted to handled the kind of work I did. Some agencies actually have different agents for different types of work. I have students that aid me in my research for part-time cash and they sometimes do the hunting and sorting for me but I always check their work. I did a targeted query and had it critiqued also by the folks at the English and Creative Writing departments.

I'm just trying to say that I cover all the bases the best I know how and then proceed from there. I guess you could say that I spammed in a way - even though each was personalized - I did send them all with in 2 days. I still emphasize that I can't wait for this particular work to sit in a slush pile for over a month at a particular agency before I send it to another - and then once I find an agent wait for the same slush piles at the publishers.

I forget who mentioned the Pope but I would venture to guess that most of the authors that had their bios out on the shelves right away were journalists, established writers, and the kinds of folks that have ready access to a publisher. Certainly no unknown authors had a bio on the Pope streaming off the press a few weeks after he died. By the time they look at a first time author on such a subject it's old news and the market is flooded.

Neurofizz - It is not a text as far as the book I'm releasing goes. I do have plans to do a curriculum package if the market shows an interest. By then, if it goes that route, I'll have a traditional publisher work it.

On spending money to make money - you do sometimes - you also have to do your homework. I almost got it from PA - if it was not for you folks I would have - Thank You again.

Anyhow with Diggory I only have to sell 108 at retail of the 200 I am ordering to make my money back on all the fees and my cost for the 200 books. I would order more but my cost does not go down until I order 1000 at a time. I'd rather take part of the profit from the first 200 and get another 200. If they go faster than I can keep up then I'll get 1000. I will have 2 weeks after I get the first shipment before my book goes up on all the Amazons (US, UK, Germany, France, and Japan) as well as B & N, Borders, and all the others. It will also be in November's Ingram catalog that goes out to 20,000 stores.

As for over priced the printer's cut for fulfillment is 5.31. My cost is 3.53 per book. I make more selling them myself but I'm pricing a 144 page 5.5X8.5 perfect bound soft cover for $14 which is not over priced for a list price for non-fiction when compared to the nearest competition. I stand to get a little better than 10% at the deepest discount and $10.22 in profit for each copy I sell myself. Not a bad return when you are only looking at a $260 fee for the whole package. It starts at $50 setup fee then $90 for ISBN and distribution to all the places I mentioned above. It was $20 each for back cover text and a photo I supply on the front and $60 for the Ingram's advert in their catalog.

Elwyn - Great Idea Thank You! I did not think of the magazine route - I'm on it now!

The book is titled "Come Together: Creation and Evolution Joined" and it has two new theories: "The Scientific Theory of Intentional and Intelligent Design"
and "The Theory of Intelligently Designed Human Evolution"

The issue with the time being critical is that Bush just stared a new angle to the old Creation vs Evolution debate when he said that he supports teaching Intelligent Design in schools. He gave my book a platform and I provide the theories behind it. I have been working for years on these very issues and I began putting all my research together in book form for consumption by folks of any background several months ago. And here it is - a perfect opening.

Gosh this was long. Sorry but I am an author too.

Epicman

Aconite
08-18-2005, 03:18 PM
Aconite - I love constructive criticism.
Me, too. How else does anyone learn?

Knowing that, may I offer a bit more? You say you personalized each query, and wrote "a" targeted query letter. I'm not sure what you mean by personalizing; we may be talking about different things. What I'm talking about, when I say "personalized, targeted query," is one written specifically for each agency or publisher you submit to, mentioning other books they have agented or published similar to yours and whatever else makes them the perfect company to take on your book. While you can work from a master letter to create variations, you have to do your research before you start sending out anything. Given that PA was on your list, I'm not sure your initial level of research was as in-depth as you need to go for this part of the process.


I did a targeted query and had it critiqued also by the folks at the English and Creative Writing departments.
If you've got access to people who submit work to commercial publishers, that's even better. Writer friends with degrees in English and journalism at different universities tell me they learned nothing at all about the business end of getting published. (Probably because their instructors didn't know anything about it.)


I still emphasize that I can't wait for this particular work to sit in a slush pile for over a month at a particular agency before I send it to another - and then once I find an agent wait for the same slush piles at the publishers.
Having an agent means you bypass the slush piles at publishers'. It's one of the reasons you want an agent. And yes, you can wait a month--the time you spend there will be made up in the time you don't have to waste trying to get marketing and distribution set up. Think of it this way: you can start driving from New York to California because you don't have time to sit at the airport, or you can sit, wait for a plane, and not get started on the trip as early as you would if you started driving, but end up being in California much sooner than if you drove.

If time really is of the essence for your work, agents and publishers will see that. They want to maximize their profits, too, and it's not to their advantage to leave a hot-topic book to get stale. Remember, they make their living from selling books. They're looking for books they can sell, and when they find them, they're going to market and distribute them in whatever way is going to sell the most. They have a lot of experience in how to do that; you don't. They will always be able to sell a book better than you can, to more people than you can reach.

And, you may not want to hear this, but it doesn't seem that your topic is so urgent that your manuscript can't wait to go the conventional route. It isn't necessary to be the first book on the topic to hit the market; what matters is being the book people want to buy on the topic. It won't matter if you were the first if someone else's book comes out a few months later, is promoted ten ways to Sunday, and leaves yours in the dust.


I forget who mentioned the Pope but I would venture to guess that most of the authors that had their bios out on the shelves right away were journalists, established writers, and the kinds of folks that have ready access to a publisher.
Some, perhaps, but nothing beats being in the right place at the right time. I'd venture to say that most of them had their manuscripts nearly completed, just waiting for the conclusion and ready to submit as soon as he died, but I doubt all of them already had publisher connections.

Best of luck, whichever route you go.

NeuroFizz
08-18-2005, 05:14 PM
To both Elwyn and Epicman,

Please don't take offense at these initial comments because they are forwarded as generalities, not at you personally. Anyone who wants their "scientific" theories taken seriously should consider publishing with a well-known academic publishing company. Better yet, if the theories are that revolutionary, and can stand up to the tests of evaluation by experts in the various fields of inquiry, they belong, first, in appropriate academic journals where they can be subjected to peer review and comment. Speed of publishing is no substitute for proper preparation and evaluation, and I don't mean bouncing it off a few well-informed friends. That's all general stuff.

Now, for the two you specifically, and these comments are intended to be constructive: Are you most interested in making a few bucks, or in having your theories seriously considered by the full range from academics to an informed public? If the former, go as you are, full speed ahead. If it's the latter, doing it the self-publishing way, you may as well be publishing your work in the National Inquirer. What we don't need is more pseudoscience heaped upon us, and no matter how well-founded, and carefully documented your theories may be, self-publishing will not get the serious treatment they would get if you went through a peer-reviewed academic journal or even a "name" publisher who regularly publishes academic books--one that has scienfitically-literate editors. Please re-read the last sentence. I am not saying your work is pseudoscience. I'm talking about perception and acceptance. From your comments, I'm going to assume that the two of you have some kind of jobs, or appointments in academic institutions. If your annual evaluations include reviews of your scientific productivity, you may be shooting youselves in your feet by self-publishing your work. If I were on a review committee, looking over your CVs, I'm afraid I'd laugh your self-published books right off the page, and question your judgement and your dedication to your academic positions. But, that's me. Maybe, in your specific situations, the evaluation systems aren't anything like I've described. But, it brings me back to an earlier question. Are you just trying to make a few bucks?

NeuroFizz
08-18-2005, 11:35 PM
Hi, Epicman

Thanks for the relpy. My statements had nothing to do with the content of your book. I still think self-publishing will come up way short in getting your work the respect it deserves, and even shorter in providing the distribution it should have if it is as revolutionary as you suggest. Of the two, I'm more worried about the respect issue. This, to me, swamps data of how many copies have to be sold to go past the break even point. Again, if your work is judged innovative and important, both within and outside of science, then you are selling yourself way short going the self-pub route.

By the way, many universities have Departments of Religious Studies, and academics in this area do have publishing outlets for their creative activities. In addition, it sounds like your work is well-suited for one area of philosophy, again an area with a multitude of appropriate publishing outlets.

On the agent issue, you don't need an agent to approach an academic publisher with your type of book. Check with Academic Press, Cambridge University Press, Oxford University Press, Freeman, Plenum. Or go check out the multitude of smaller university presses in the US and UK. If they like what you have, they will expedite AND offer editorial oversight. And they will take care of distribution and sales.

In Science, and in many other areas, it's better to be done right than to be done this Tuesday. If you want to risk a potential hit to your reputation, in the name of time sensitivity, make sure you acknowledge that possibility before you proceed.

Of course, that's my opinion. If I'm wrong (about the respect issue), I'll be waiting with a cold beer and an apology.

Cheers, Rich

James D. Macdonald
08-19-2005, 05:34 AM
The director of the movie Lord of the Rings exhausted all possibilities but one, a tiny unknown studio that took a chance – and ended up reaping huge benefits!

I know this is getting seriously off topic, but are you entirely sure?

The "tiny unknown studio," if you mean WingNut Films, was the same studio that had produced Peter Jackson's five previous films. If you mean New Line Cinema -- they're hardly small or unknown. They've been producing movies -- hundreds of them -- for decades, and distributing movies before that. They distributed Gone With the Wind in 1939 for example. (The other producer was Tolkien Enterprises -- and it's no surprise they were involved.)

==============

Self- and vanity-published books on evolution/creationism/intelligent design are almost a genre in themselves right now.

Consider:

Darwin's Design Dilemma: How 20th Century Science supports the account of creation in Genesis by Lowell E. Coker, PhD.
Booksurge, May 2005. Amazon rank: None (IOW, none sold through Amazon.)
One Moment in Eternity: Human Evolution by Eugene Minard, M.D.
Hudson Books, July 2005. Amazon rank: None
Understanding the Creation/evolution Controversy: A Scientific Evaluation Consistent with Both Modern Science and the Bible by Eugene Ashby
ACW Press, July 2005. Amazon rank: None
World History and the Eonic Effect: Civilization, Darwinism, and Theories of Evolution by John Landon
Xlibris, May 2005. Amazon sales rank: None
=================

Here's what you can do. Go over to Amazon. Put this into the Advanced Search Box:
keywords: (creationism or intelligent design or evolution) and pubdate: during 2005

You'll get around 8,000 hits. Go through those for books that look similar to yours that weren't self or vanity published (hint -- if a publisher has only one book out, it's self-published).

Those should be the publishers you approach.

Compare the sales ranks of Intelligent Design or Evolution? Why the Origins of Life and the Evolution of Molecular Knowledge Imply Design by Stuart W. Pullen (Intelligent Design Press, February 2005, self-published. Amazon sales rank 228,638) with The Evolution-Creation Struggle by Michael Ruse (Harvard University Press, May 2005, Amazon sales rank 40,983).

While Amazon ranks don't translate well to knowable sales, and they're just one dipstick among many, you'll notice that Mr. Ruse's book is selling an order of magnitude better than Mr. Pullen's book at Amazon.

==========

Update: I went to look at Lulu, and found Creation Studies: Evidence of Design by John Loiodice. That has a Lulu sales rank of 7451, which sounds impressive until you notice that a sales rank of 7275 equates to three sold.

Epicman
08-19-2005, 10:04 AM
valuable input. Thanks to all.

I will do the self pub route to start. I have a non-exclusive contract and Diggory is fairly unknown around here. I will send press releases to all the major media starting with the biggies and will offer a review copy to any that wishes to have one - Diggory said they'd pack and ship them for me and that if it takes off - a lot of review requests from the heavies - they would kick in and send them at their expense. For now they will charge me 3.31 for each one and they would take care of shipping.

I will also submit my ms to the Oklahoma University Press and some of the other university presses. I will submit to the bigger publishers too.
If I can show several thousand sales in my local market - Oklahoma City - which is vast in a short time perhaps a publisher will jump all over it. By the way, Meadows Press is the parent company of Diggory and they will consider my work also when I send it in - who knows?

I think that the critical time factor will be realized and understood by a few publishers - once I prove myself here locally. Dont forget about the single mom in Atlanta that self pubbed and got picked up with a $250,000 advance for the self pubbed book plus two followups. I have listed "Coming Soon" projects I am working on in my book. I am also developing a curriculum package to include teacher's guides, student study guides, and test question banks for a followup to my book as well as two followups and two reference works on the history of science and the history of biology.

Elwyn - I greatly appreciate your interest.

Logos - they show a jump from 200 to 1000 with nothing in between.

James - I spent about 20 hours total on Amazon over 3 days doing just as you suggested and here are the main points on which my work differs:

1) Most of these works, I'd estimate over 90%, are extremely technical in nature (like A Biochemical Challenge to Evolution) and geared to a peer or expert audience. My work is simplistic for the masses - I had several people with non-science backgrounds including a 10th grader and high school senior - review my work and fill out questionaires as well as spend a few hours with each to gather exactly what they needed for a complete understanding of my concepts. I reworked and ended up with experts in the field. I also did the same with peers and science oriented people to confirm accuracy. My goal was not to confuse the layperson and not be boring to the experts. One of my main contentions is that all the debate is based upon sensationalized translations of the experts' technical language - which is exactly what the vast amount of this genra consists of. My purpose is to incite a universal understanding among the masses.

2) Again, the vast majority of these technically written books is an argument for one side or the other - I combine them in a way that is acceptable to both sides to put the debate to bed.

3) The far ends of each side is addressed specifically to bring all into agreement. And my greatest challenge: to satisfy scientists, Christians, and the separation of Church and State advocates. I believe I have done just that in a work anyone can read and understand - a unique approach.

I asked the scientists if they felt my theories were sound - I did get a lot of 'why didnt I think of that'. But the key here is that I had none that could refute any of the theories scientifically.

I then asked devout Christians if they felt all that I theorized was supported by the Bible. They conceded the point and only a few challenged a few points but when I asked them to Biblically defend their dissent all conceded that they could not based solely upon scripture without including translations of them.

I then consulted with atheists on the neutrality of the wording of my theories. Specifically could they find any issues of separation of Church and State and would they object to their children being taught my concepts within public schools. I also recieved no dissent.

I am not on an ego trip. I am a Christian and a scientist who has struggled with these issues for a long time and spent years researching them. No I am not a scientologist - just a born again Christian who is also a scientist - Biologist to be more specific. My other areas of study are chemistry, physics, psychology, history, and adult education - that is the master's degree I am working on currently. I simply have found new theories just like Darwin, Einstein, and many others throughout history. Society is ready NOW for this.

Dave - www.diggory.com (http://www.diggory.com) is the link for them - check them out and I will give full progress reports as I move through their system to aid any others. According to my research and that of Logos this outfit is lower cost overall when compared to Lulu if you wish to sell your works. the authors price is lower and the retail price - I choose my own - can be comparable with other big house publishers - in my case even lower. They are owned by Meadow Press and also look at all Diggory submissions for possible offers from their traditional publisher.

***** I do need some help with one question: I can get a 6x9 for the same fees, costs per copy, etc. as a 5.5x8.5. Any detriment to going with 6x9 as far as the distributers and sellers are concerned. I come up with a four page shorter count at 6x9 which will lower my cost per copy by .06 and the same for the fulfillment price .06 per copy savings. I think a slightly bigger book, lower cost per unit, higer profit, etc. The only downside I can think of is if the distributers and sellers have any issues - does anyone know?

Thank You all so much,
Epicman

aruna
08-19-2005, 11:02 AM
I will also be listed on all the amazons globally, all the book stores online sites

People seem not to realise that having a book on Amazon or another online bookstore means nothing. How are you going to get people to actually GO to that book's Amazon page? There are hundreds, probably thousands, of books on Amazon which are just that: they are there, but nobody is aware of it, and nobody ever sees them, much less buys them.
Whatever - I do wish you luck. Interesting topic.

Epicman
08-19-2005, 03:24 PM
Aruna

Hello to you.

How are you going to get people to actually GO to that book's Amazon page?

Advertising - for free. Press releases targeted at the major newspapers and TV in the major cities.

I do wish you luck.

Me to you too. Thank You.

Interesting topic.

If you think so now wait till you read the book! "Come Together: Creation and Evolution Joined"

Epicman

logos1234567
08-19-2005, 03:58 PM
Epicman it is www.diggorypress.com (http://www.diggorypress.com) not www.diggory.com (http://www.diggory.com)! They do do a sliding scale if you ask them to give you a quote on 250/300/400 or whatever you want - ask them!!!

Re: your book, I remember reading something a few years ago in 'The New Scientist' magazine (forgive me if I have it muddled a little, it was a long time ago and I am not a scientist) about how secular scientists were believing they found the common genetic link for all humankind in Africa - something to do with the DNA which made it possible for all colours to be descended from just this one 'person' and I believe they called it 'Mother Eve' or something?? Am I remembering wrong...maybe..but it sure was interesting!

logos1234567
08-19-2005, 04:11 PM
re amazon sales ranking:

Compare the sales ranks of Intelligent Design or Evolution? Why the Origins of Life and the Evolution of Molecular Knowledge Imply Design by Stuart W. Pullen (Intelligent Design Press, February 2005, self-published. Amazon sales rank 228,638) with The Evolution-Creation Struggle by Michael Ruse (Harvard University Press, May 2005, Amazon sales rank 40,983).

While Amazon ranks don't translate well to knowable sales, and they're just one dipstick among many, you'll notice that Mr. Ruse's book is selling an order of magnitude better than Mr. Pullen's book at Amazon.

That is not necessarily true. It would only really make a differance if Ruse's book was under say 10,000 ranking. All it says that Ruse's book has sold a copy or two more recently than Pullen on amazon. Next week (or whenever) Pullen sells a copy it could jump ahead of Ruse. Amazon go by RECENT sales not by cumalative sales to date.

I know a pod author who has yet to make any ranking on amazon who has already sold 600 copies of his Christian book since it came out in June.

James D. Macdonald
08-19-2005, 05:18 PM
Like I said, looks like you've already made your decision. I do hope you'll drop back by in a year and let us know how it's working for you.

maestrowork
08-19-2005, 05:39 PM
over 40 literary agents and 12 publishers that take email queries/proposals two weeks ago. The results:


Two weeks, and 40 agents, and you're giving up already? If you're so impatient, I guess publishing is not for you (unless you publish all your books POD/Vanity).

It took me more than 65 queries/partials/full and 10 months to get a deal... the point is, if your ms. is sellable, and if you're right -- that it would sell many copies because there's no competition and it appeals to a lot of people, then you should just keep trying legit venues and some day someone will buy. Don't waste your time and money in POD/vanity.

But... Good luck anyway.

maestrowork
08-19-2005, 05:48 PM
Advertising - for free. Press releases targeted at the major newspapers and TV in the major cities.


Press releases are not free advertising. And just because you send them press releases doesn't mean they're going to write or do a story about it. And even if they do write a story about, it's hardly advertising.

There's a reason why people spend millions in advertising...

What other kind of free advertising are you doing? How targeted are you? I mean, a normal Joe Blow on the street is not going to be interested in a book about creationism/intelligent design, no matter how many commercials he sees...

logos1234567
08-19-2005, 06:17 PM
Also something about amazon rankings: they fail to count in amazon marketplace sellers. So for example if Ruse's book does not have great discount terms or is not widely available through certain distributors networks then many of the marketplace sellers will not be heavily discounting it so most of the punters will be buying it direct off amazon.

However if Pullen's book is discounting more favorably/has better or even differant distribution channels then it is possible that marketplace sellers are selling it much cheaper than amazon. Therefore many more punters will be buying it on amazon marketplace than the previous book and therefore Pullen's book could be selling many more than Ruse's but you would never know by amazon's rankings.

I know some books that have yet to recieve a ranking on amazon have sold quite a number via amazon marketplace.

HapiSofi
08-20-2005, 07:56 AM
Re Elwyn, Epicman:

Look, it's Captain Lemming! And his sidekick, Captain Lemming!

Have a good time, guys.

Mac H.
08-21-2005, 06:45 PM
Hi Elwyn,

Sorry that I helped drag this thread off course!

Drop me a PM when the book finally comes out. I'll see if I can buy a copy for my father. I'd hate to guess whether he'll agree or disagree with your theories, but we'll enjoy the discussions on the subject ...

Good luck again,

Mac.
(PS: Hint: Link it in with a reference to Hebrew Astrology and you'll have him agreeing with you!)

HapiSofi
08-22-2005, 03:53 PM
Whatever piece of gear was supposed to keep out stowaways clearly wasn't functioning. He should have unbolted it and thrown it out the airlock.Darn straight. Along with all the bedding, cabinet doors, crockery, cleaning supplies, and nonessential cover plates. And the bathroom sink. And any piece of gear necessary for takeoff but not landing.

And by the way, Epicman? You're doomed. It's not going to work out the way you imagine.

logos1234567
08-22-2005, 10:21 PM
I think it's hasty and unfair to say he's doomed. You do not know that. Epicman seems to have a good sphere of influence (ie: on his college campus) and an interesting topic with a unique selling point (ie: aimed at the masses). He is NOT forking out thousands of dollars in advance, and he is going with an ethical publisher, who are also the cheapest in the industry (www.diggorypress.com (http://www.diggorypress.com)) and who I know do a good job and can recommend to anyone thinking of self-publishing.

If Epicman prices reaslistically then he'll do OK. Look even if Epicman only sells 500 that he says he can on campus that is hardly failure is it....hardly doomed. He's never going to sell as well as if he were with Ransom House but he can still do alright, and there is the chance he may get picked up by one of the biggies. OK only a slender chance, but still a chance.

I have self published 3 books. 2 were by litho printing. One has sold just over 10,000, the other 8,000 (they both still sell) and the 3rd this year (which I published pod with Diggory Press) is selling well already. No agents or publishers would touch it (even with my track record) but all 3 sell well. 3 books that would still be in my dusty old files if I did not self publish. I am not a millionaire but I am happy with this....

I say to any author thinking of self-publishing, don't pay mega-bucks to get published, go with someone like Diggory Press (or even Lulu) - you are risking very little capital anyway which you will quickly recoup (even if you have no friends or relatives to buy off you) so do it!!!

NeuroFizz
08-23-2005, 01:10 AM
Here's another self-publishing opportunity...

http://onion.com/news/index.php?issue=4133&n=2

Relax, all. The Supreme Being gave us a sense of humor for a reason.

logos1234567
08-24-2005, 04:05 PM
However, the wildly hopeful proponents of that idea refuse to listen to anyone with actual experience otherwise.

That is rather patronising when I (and some others here) do have actual experience otherwise. My head is not in the clouds, I have been self-publishing for over 10 years. I know its joys and pitfalls.

I have never claimed Epicman or anyone else is going to do as well as if he were regularly published. I have never claimed he's going to get on the Jay Leno show. What I have said though is that he is hardly doomed. And there is the possibility he may do very well. I have done well and others too that I know have done well. I was trying to encourage writers to launch out and self-publish as it can work. Not brilliantly perhaps, but nonetheless reasonably.

My point is my three self published books that I have all made good money on would never have been published by anyone else and I would:

a) still be unpublished
b) think that my work is crap and no-one wants it.
C) have less money in the bank than I do

I have proved other publishers wrong for not taking my work on, I have a loyal fan base, earned considerable money over the years and proved self-publishing can work. And I am confident I am an OK writer.

I would never encourage any and every author to print litho. A previous post of mine here told of the many self publishing authors I know who still have unsold stock in every corner of their houses. But now with print on demand and its affordability, I do not think there is a good reason NOT to self-publish (unless you are a total illiterate or you are on a tiny income and it would be stealing the bread from your children's mouths.)

Providing anyone does not invest a large amount of capital and buy hundreds of books (as is now possible with pod with the publishers I have previously mentioned), most authors would recoup their small initial investment within a realtively short time. They would also have the joy of seeing their work in print and getting their message out.

It is good to warn people of the pitfalls of self-publishing. But there's too many Jeremiahs on this board and a balance needs to be put forward of the brighter side which does exist for MANY self publishing authors. (ie: the 'minor league' or even 'Little League' players. Unfortunately the brighter side all too often put forward is all about the less realistic Major League with the Hollywood deals etc. But just because we cannot all pitch for the Major League it does not mean we should give up on baseball does it or have fun while we are doing it????)

NeuroFizz
08-24-2005, 05:55 PM
It is good to warn people of the pitfalls of self-publishing. But there's too many Jeremiahs on this board and a balance needs to be put forward of the brighter side which does exist for MANY self publishing authors.

I agree, Logos, a balance needs to be reported. As of now, it stands at 437,983 to 1. Of course, neither number is real, but all you have to do is check out the preponderance of complaints and sour experiences in posts in this forum (AWWC) to realize the balance point isn't going to be anywhere near center, in fact, it isn't anywhere near what one would consider reasonable odds of success. I'd rather buy a lottery ticket. The odds are worse, but it will only cost a dollar to play.

I congratulate you on your success. Please have all of your friends and colleagues who have gone significantly beyond the break even point chime in so we can (1) find the proper balance point, and (2) congratulate them as well.

The advice many are trying to forward is this:
Can one be a success self-publishing? Yes, if there is a niche audience that the author can successfully reach, or if one gains a modest but loyal readership. BUT, even then, the odds are stacked against it. The average number of sales for self-published books has been provided in other posts.

Will self-publishing advance one's writing career? If one wants to base this solely on whether his/her bank account goes up or down, it's a maybe at best. Again, the odds are stacked against, unless you consider breaking even, or doing slightly better than that a success. The attitude of some commercial publishers is such that self-publishing is seen as a negative instead of a positive. Would I ever list a self-published book as a writing credit in a query to an agent or a commerical publisher? NEVER, but that's me.

(This one is forwarded because the two individuals who are considering self-publishing are writing as academics, in areas in or related to science.) If one wants to count a self-published book as part of an academic resume, there is a real risk of doing damage to that resume, or to the author's reputation.

Finally, the number of people who are self-publishing crap is overwhelming. Regardless of the quality of your works, or those of others, your books will be subjected to the stigma of a publishing medium that suffers from a total lack of quality control (I'm not talking about printing mechanics here).

Finally, the people who are making money from this enterprise are not the authors, but the owners of companies who put no effort into the works other than a bit of computer formatting and printing, and whose only interest is in quantity of published works, not quality of published works. If you think these people aren't making a bundle off of you, think again.

James D. Macdonald
08-24-2005, 06:26 PM
Finally, the people who are making money from this enterprise are not the authors, but the owners of companies who put no effort into the works other than a bit of computer formatting and printing, and whose only interest is in quantity of published works, not quality of published works. If you think these people aren't making a bundle off of you, think again.

During the California Gold Rush the people who were making money weren't the miners, they were the people selling shovels to the miners.

Here we're getting into the distinction between self-publishing and vanity publishing.

In self-publishing, the author owns the ISBN. The author does or contracts all the writing/editing/production/distribution. It's like a miniature publishing company with only one author. There's a printer involved, but if one day the author prints 500 copies with Aardvark Printing and the next day prints 500 more with Zebra Printing, neither Aardvark nor Zebra have a thing to say about it. (One of the main pitfalls of self-publishing is that the author as publisher will forget to pay himself as the author -- money should still flow toward the author, even if it's only moving from one pocket to another in the same pair of pants.) All the income goes to the author.

I know a gentleman -- a retired schoolteacher -- who self-publishes a book every year. He writes about local history, and places his books in local independent bookstores, where they sell to local folks and tourists.

He makes a small profit on each book. It's like a hobby that pays for itself -- cheaper than photography, safer than skydiving, doesn't take up as much space as model railroading. The only time he lost money on a book was the time he tried to take one national.

Vanity publishing, now -- the publisher owns the ISBN and handles the editing, production, printing, distribution (all at the author's expense). The author doesn't physically own the books, and gets a percentage of the income from their sale. For some people the convenience of having someone else handle the publication process might be worth giving up the control and the income. For others ... not so much. Personally I believe that while self-publishing can be viable, vanity publishing is a bad idea when it isn't a total scam.

Some areas are better suited to self-publishing than others: Poetry, specialized non-fiction, niche fiction. Perhaps a book on Intelligent Design counts as specialized non-fiction. The proposed book might do relatively well (as in make more than it cost) there. I don't see wide-spread readership, or adoption in schools, using that route, but I'd be interested in hearing how it all goes.

The idea that self-publication "proves" a book for trade presses is one that keeps coming around -- but while you can find some books that followed that route they're a miniscule percentage of the total that trade presses buy, and a miniscule percentage of the books that are self-published. Unless you move 10,000-15,000 in a reasonably short time it's not likely that a trade press will be interested.

Elwyn
08-24-2005, 07:00 PM
I originally posted this in anothear area of the forum but think it may need to be here also.

"In the very short time that I’ve been a member of this forum, I must say that I’ve read a lot of opinions about self-publishing; both pro and con.

I ran across this information and wanted to share it with you. It’s about a young man who self-published his first book and now his work is listed as number one on Amazon. The link is at: http://www.teenreads.com/authors/au...christopher.asp (http://www.teenreads.com/authors/au-paolini-christopher.asp)

After reading this, I am somewhat convinced that self-publishing may be the only way for some of us to break into this game.

What say ya’ll?"

Note that the young man self-published first, then was discovered by an agent.

James D. Macdonald
08-24-2005, 07:17 PM
It's Christopher Paolini again.

It was the major trade publisher's edition that sold well (at Amazon among other places). Please notice that he didn't turn down the offer from that major press in order to continue with what he was doing.

Please also note that his book came out from an existing small press that had published books by other writers -- only the fact that the press was owned by his parents makes what he did self-publishing.

Aconite
08-25-2005, 12:19 AM
Elwyn, do you know why Paolini's story is news? Because what happened with his book was rare.

Take a few minutes, gather numbers from reliable sources, and calculate how many books are self-published each year. Now find out how many of them made any profit. Now find out how many of them can be considered commercial successes. Starting to get the picture?

victoriastrauss
08-25-2005, 04:13 AM
It was the major trade publisher's edition that sold well (at Amazon among other places). Please notice that he didn't turn down the offer from that major press in order to continue with what he was doing.And he probably would not have received that offer if his book hadn't--completely by chance--fallen into the hands of the son of a famous writer, who was able to pass it directly to an editor at Knopf.

Scratch a self-publishing success story, and you'll often find a special circumstance like this.

- Victoria

James D. Macdonald
08-25-2005, 04:21 AM
The other thing about Paolini is that he's young. Any time you have a teenager publish a book it makes news. Again, because it's rare.

There are lots of paths that lead to publication -- John Scalzi got an offer for a novel he had posted on his web page -- but that doesn't mean that posting your novel on your web page will work for you.

maestrowork
08-25-2005, 12:43 PM
It's Christopher Paolini again.
Please also note that his book came out from an existing small press that had published books by other writers -- only the fact that the press was owned by his parents makes what he did self-publishing.

Bingo!

Trepanny Peck
08-25-2005, 01:03 PM
Some areas are better suited to self-publishing than others: Poetry, specialized non-fiction, niche fiction. Perhaps a book on Intelligent Design counts as specialized non-fiction. The proposed book might do relatively well (as in make more than it cost) there. I don't see wide-spread readership, or adoption in schools, using that route, but I'd be interested in hearing how it all goes.


I definitely don't see adoption in public schools at least, because I think ID is going to be struck down in court for violating the establishment clause before long.

But that's got nothing to do with writing and publishing.

Epicman
08-27-2005, 01:07 AM
Hello All!

Here is how it is going so far...

Rosalind at Diggory is GREAT! I sent in my $260 and my files went in this past Sunday night. We sent them back and forth with suggestions. She totally suprised me by reformatting my book from 144 pages to 118. I did not like it though and we finalized it at 140 pages. I felt it was too compacted and hard to read and I wanted a book - not a booklet - so we did a 1/2 space between lines and it looks much better.

The part that freaked me out is Rosalind was trying to save me money with her suggested changes! I told her that is not how I expected to be treated - everyone here says you guys just want to line your pockets and screw us authors out of as much as you can get. She said welcome to Diggory - a Christian run organization that treats you fairly.

Anyhow she sent it to the press Wednesday and I will have my proof sometime next week. The book is already on their site - go to diggorypress.com and find Glenn Hamilton on the author's menu down on the left. She has given me what will be the links on Amazon though they won't be live for a few weeks - she anticipates September 1 as the date they will be there. So I figure about a week and a half - maybe two - from submission to availability. All I can say is WOW!

I've been sending press releases to the local papers, working on my web site (cometogetherbooks.com), and designing a poster to take to printers for quotes. I also need to set up some signings but I want to have at least 200 copies on hand before I do. Once I sell 26 copies I'll have made back the $260 I paid to have it done and 70 more will pay my costs for the 200 books.

Not bad if you look at the numbers. I will continue to sign in from time to time to keep ou all updated on my experience. Oh, that one person with the "DOOMED" comment... You sound like Mr Jenkins the shady groundskeeper from Scooby Doo. By the way... What have you published?

Epicman
Glenn S. Hamilton
Cometogetherbooks.com

James D. Macdonald
08-27-2005, 08:49 AM
Oh, that one person with the "DOOMED" comment... You sound like Mr Jenkins the shady groundskeeper from Scooby Doo. By the way... What have you published?

That person was HapiSofi. He or she prefers to remain anonymous, for reasons that seem good to him or her.

However, I do know that individual's real identity.

The short answer is: A respectable amount, none of it with vanity presses.

Epicman
08-27-2005, 10:26 AM
Would a person who has published a 'respectable amount' never with a vanity press - who I would put in the class of a professional - choose such juvenile words? Especially in an attempt to dash an aspiring author's hopes and dreams against the rocks? Just doesnt sound very professional to me. If all authors that publish 'respectable amounts' with traditional publishers cop attitudes like HapiSofi then I am glad I chose the 'vanity route' and will publish all my works that way.

If I am successful - I will share my methods and encourage anyone to follow them. If I am a flop - I will share that too and warn others what not to do. I thought when I joined this board that getting advice and sharing experiences was what this was all about - I guess for the most part it is.

But why one of the successful members would act as HapiSopi is certainly beyond this author's comprehension. To the rest of you - thank you - I have incorporated many of your ideas. I hope that my book and the books of all the others here are giant hits - and anything I can do to help I will do it.

Epicman
Glenn S. Hamilton
"Come Together: Creation and Evolution Joined:
ISBN: 190536329X

HapiSofi
08-28-2005, 06:08 AM
Would a person who has published a 'respectable amount' never with a vanity press - who I would put in the class of a professional - choose such juvenile words? Especially in an attempt to dash an aspiring author's hopes and dreams against the rocks?Because what you're planning to do won't work.

Your hopes and dreams are not my responsibility. I don't tell lies for people I love dearly. Why should I tell lies for you?

Epicman
08-28-2005, 07:28 AM
No one here wants to be lied to. Dealing with each other in a constructive manner should be the order of the day.

Doomed you say?

I have NOT contacted any family and friends as of yet. I have had my website operational for three days and have pre-sold 32 copies to complete strangers as of 15 minutes ago. I have not advertised the book on campus yet, have not done my articles for the two major newspapers in the metro area yet, and have just started setting up book signings.

Just the numbers:
I have spent $260.00 at Diggory for the complete setup, submission to the online sites, and handling fulfillment world-wide.
I have spent $94.00 on a one year web hosting contract.
I have grossed $574.40 selling the 32 copies.
I will spend $112 for the 32 copies plus let's guess high and say $2.00 each to first-class mail them with those yellow envelopes and labels that is $64.00.

So... Before I do any advertising - except the website and its cost is listed above:

I've spent $530.
I've made $44.40 after recovering the $530 I've spent.

I turned this manuscript in last Sunday night via email and it is now the following Saturday night and $44.40 is "flowing the author's way" after recovering every penny I have spent.

It may not turn out the way I imagine it might but Doomed - I don't think anyone would agree with that.

You are right that you are not responsible for anyone's hopes and dreams. I, on the other hand, will help anyone - in a constructive manner - who asks how they might fulfill theirs.

Epicman
Glenn S. Hamilton
http://www.cometogetherbooks.com

James D. Macdonald
08-28-2005, 09:02 AM
I think I see the problem, Glenn. You're coming from a place where 150 sales is a victory. Hapi is coming from a place where 2,000 sales is a debacle.

Birol
08-28-2005, 09:07 AM
Are you taking into account the time it took you to create the manuscript and adding the value of that labor into your ROI calculations?

Epicman
08-28-2005, 11:19 AM
is that I did not loose anything. I have all my rights and can cancel with an email the contract with Diggory. I havent even started advertising - my book cannot even be ordered yet - and through a few pre-orders on my site I have turned a profit. While 150 sales would be a victory - considering my minimal investment - I'm sure that I will exceed 400-500 just on my campus alone. Those are just the direct sales I will make from my copies purchased at my cost which will net just over $10 per copy in profit. $40,000 to 50,000 less than a month from now and that is not counting orders from my website which is already doing well.

Is there one author going the traditional publishing route that makes the same per copy? I plan to handle the local market just this way and then let a regular publisher take it from there. It is my firm belief that if a book can find a large local market and take off quickly that a traditional publisher will want to take it. Meanwhile I make some real money up front and quickly doing it myself.

If this works the way I think it will I will do exactly the same thing with the other books I'm working on. I think self-publishing is a wonderful way to grab a chunk of the cheese from the local market and then let the big boys take it from there.

Prove the marketability and the demand with a minimal investment, make a nice return, then the publishers will take it on. Doesnt sound like a bad plan to me.

I guess this takes us back to why the thread was started in the first place. Elwyn you were right. Prove your worth and marketability on a local basis and then the big publishing houses will take you on.

I'll keep you all posted and good luck to you all.

Epicman
Glenn S. Hamilton
http://www.cometogetherbooks.com

Aconite
08-28-2005, 03:16 PM
Epicman, as Birol pointed out, you can only consider it a profit if you look only at the money you paid to print the book and ignore the value of your own labor in writing and marketing it. It's a big mistake to do that.

arainsb123
08-28-2005, 05:57 PM
I will exceed 400-500 just on my campus alone. Those are just the direct sales I will make from my copies purchased at my cost which will net just over $10 per copy in profit. $40,000 to 50,000 less than a month from now and that is not counting orders from my website which is already doing well.


10*400=4,000, not 40,000. I've POD published two books with iUniverse and they both flopped miserably (less than 200 sales put together ...) However, I hope you do much better than me :).

LloydBrown
08-28-2005, 06:17 PM
If the publisher decides that the reason your book is strong locally is because of the weight of your personal influence, they'll pass on your book. Your 400-500 sales might fill the market demand for that book almost entirely.

As for "I didn't lose anything" by the same token, if you hand-copy your book and sell it to a buddy for the cost of the materials, you also didn't lose anything. Yet, nobody would consider that a success.

Personally, I think your sales aren't bad for what you set out to do. That's not a bad return for the cash you spent. I don't think I'd be happy with the return on the labor spent, though. If you figure 500 to 1,000 hours of work, you're earning maybe $4 to $8 an hour. From what I've seen, most college professors manage to do better than that.

James D. Macdonald
08-28-2005, 07:03 PM
For a commercial publisher, 400-500 sales is "fiasco." 3,000-5,000 sales is "has already sold every copy it's going to." You want 10,000-15,000 for "breakout book, worth looking at."

Epicman
08-28-2005, 09:08 PM
for fixing my booboo on the numbers. Anyhow the 400-500 is just my guess at local sales at my campus from my stock direct. I have two other major college campuses locally - mine is the smallest. That is where I plan on starting my advertising with flyers and articles in the campus newspapers. The two large metro papers - and one of those owns the local ABC affilliate - I have just sent info to a few days ago. I'll let you know how that goes.

Oklahoma has always been a hotbed for this type of material. President Bush just weeks ago supported Intelligent Design be taught in schools and started a huge controversy. Just north, in Kansas, they are voting on the issue. The problem is that they have nothing to teach. No one has formulated a scientifically supported theory of Intelligent Design - untill now. No one has proposed these theories in plain English so that the masses could understand them - until now. The biggest issue: no one has proposed an Intelligent Design theory that will be acceptable universally to Christians, Muslims, supporters of the separation of Church and State, Atheists, etc - until now.

I'm not talking about a small local following - I don't have one. I'm talking about a subject with a broad appeal. Let's say the vote in Kansas favors ID being taught in schools. What are they going to teach? I have the theories and I already have the work on elementary and secondary curriccular materials started. I have also sent in my preliminary works on similar titles dealing with other controversies to the Library of Congress for copyright. Yes I know you cannot copyright an idea - but I can copyright my material laid out in a similar format to the work I have just released.

Anyhow, I mentioned earlier that I would pitch this to a publisher sometime soon. I found an agent that looks right up my alley. I'm sending a personalized query and will let you all know how that goes.

Epicman
Glenn S. Hamilton
http://www.cometogetherbooks.com

victoriastrauss
08-29-2005, 12:26 AM
I found an agent that looks right up my alley. I'm sending a personalized query and will let you all know how that goes.Please contact Writer Beware (beware@sfwa.org), and I'll be glad to check and see if we have any info on the agent.

- Victoria

Epicman
08-29-2005, 01:11 AM
Victoria,

I have sent you an email and await your reply.

Epicman
Glenn S. Hamilton
http://www.cometogetherbooks.com

Elwyn
08-29-2005, 07:20 AM
What if Epicman is not in this to make money? What if he has an idea that needs attention - and he spends his own money to get a few books printed?

And what if Epicman sends one of those books to an influential someone who has his or her eyes opened to a new idea that eventually leads to Epicman being recognized for his insight on the subject matter?

Wouldn't that be worth the time, effort and cost of self-publishing?

It seems everyone has been talking about money. Some folk actually put conviction before dollars. And, you don't have to say it - those people are generally poor. But, sometimes they also have the greatest impact on society.

James D. Macdonald
08-29-2005, 08:16 AM
That's an awful lot of suppositions, there, Elwyn.

Please notice that I've been talking sales figures right the way along.

One reason that folks talk about money is that there's a positive correlation between readers and money. It's hard to count readers, but it's easy to count money.

Epicman
08-29-2005, 11:46 AM
Elwyn what a beautiful way to put it... but I'm sort of half and half on the matter of money. I used to be in real estate and earned 80,000 plus most years. I became physically disabled and returned to school as a graduate student. I am sad to say that part of our support comes in the form of food stamps at the present time and that I am bed ridden about 95% of the time with my lap top - my world. I have no medical insurance and have had to sell off all my possessions but the necessities just to buy my medications. No meds - I can't leave the bed. My wife and I received our financial aid disbursements through the school and I decided nothing ventured nothing gained and sent $260 off to Diggory.

I set aside a couple hundred more to get some books and hope it turns out that maybe I can buy my meds - or it would be really super if I could just have the surgery and get the problem fixed. I'd give my left n*t for that - sorry but it's true. I'd like to think, at the same time, that I could change the world too. We will have to just see about that. I have been working on all these projects while stuck in bed all this time and decided to throw one out there and see if it sticks - I pray it does.

Getting that out of the way I guess you can see that I am in the middle on the money thing. It sure would be nice to get fixed and be normal again - that will take a nice little chunk of change.

Anyhow I did have an agent answer a email query I sent on Sunday afternoon. He answered Sunday evening requesting a full book proposal which I sent him right away. He's from Writers House and I hear good things about them. I will keep all of you posted.

Epicman
Glenn S. Hamilton
http://www.cometogetherbooks.com

James D. Macdonald
08-29-2005, 05:29 PM
Congratulations. Writers House is a good agency.

Even under the best of circumstances writing isn't usually a good way out of a financial hole.

Elwyn
08-29-2005, 07:47 PM
Epicman

I don't know if it's common to get an answer back from an agent that fast, but I wouldn't think so. I have read that Writers House is a good outfit.

May God bless you and your efforts and may your book be a smashing success.

Elwyn

NeuroFizz
08-29-2005, 08:31 PM
As an addendum to my earlier post, congrats if you can get a good agent, but why are you going for popular publishers? If this is meant to be a serious contribution to the academic literature on this topic, at the least, you should be going for publishers that produce academic books and employ editors who are experienced in academic publishing. The popular presses exist only to make money. The scientific ones as well, but they also bear the responsibility to provide reasonably sound (in an academic sense), albeit sometimes very controversial, works of non-fiction. Their reputation depends on the latter. These publishers don't require agented submissions. You don't have to lose 15% off the top.

Whether you like it or not, your topic is an academic one. Maybe not in the Kansas legislature, but in the rest of the world.
Good luck to you.

Epicman
08-30-2005, 04:31 AM
It's HapiSofi - I had to look back quite a way and I forgot Logos and victoria.

Epicman
Glenn S. Hamilton
http://www.cometogetherbooks.com

James D. Macdonald
08-30-2005, 04:35 AM
I'm not reading and posting here out of an interest in Intelligent Design. I'm interested in writing and publishing. I think I'd have posted the exact same messages if your book was about frog farming.

Epicman
08-30-2005, 06:13 AM
I understand that James, and I appreciate your input. I never implied that the only reason why the number of views was so high is my topic - it is just the sideshow to the publishing issues we discuss here. I do believe that it is interesting though...

36 views since 6:30 until this post...

For some more info that may interest some...

I created and put up my website through ipowerweb.com last week they are fairly cheap at $6 something a month if you buy a year. They have a really cool tool that autosubmits your site to 30 search engines. I have had visits from 6 'bots' so far - they are what records and stores your info for the search engines - Googles bot visited 2 days ago. Their website says that once the bot visits your info will be on the search engine - they dont say how long and it hasnt happened yet.

They also have a statistics tool that tells you when, how many, and where visitors come from plus a whole lot of other stuff I do not understand.

Current pre-sales after one week on my site, not being on any of the online book stores, and not any real advertising yet = 64 copies of "Come Together: Creation and Evolution Joined".

I had planned on ordering 150 for direct sales to start and 50 for review copies but I may double that so I can have enough for signings. 6 more sales on the site and the profit will buy 230 more books for those of you that have been following the figures.

Just counting money out-of-pocket (and not my time put into creating the work) I have put more than double back in my pocket in the eight days since parting with it.

Epicman
Glenn S. Hamilton
http://www.cometogetherbooks.com

Epicman
08-30-2005, 07:31 PM
I have an interview with a reporter and photographer tomorrow afternoon at one of the two large metro papers. Any ideas from anyone on what I should include in a press kit for the reporter? Any other ideas? Can you tell I'm nervous?

Any ideas would be helpful.

Best Regards,

Epicman
Glenn S. Hamilton
http://www.cometogetherbooks.com

James D. Macdonald
08-30-2005, 07:34 PM
A copy of the book.
A one-page summary of the book.
A press release about the book.
A flattering 8x10 B&W photo of yourself.

Epicman
08-30-2005, 08:37 PM
The reporter called and asked that I be ready to have my photo taken - I guess he forgot he told me a photographer would be there. I told him that I'd burn the spread of my cover and just the front cover jpegs to a disc in case that made it easier for him to put in the article - he said that would be great.

We're borrowing a digital camera today to see if we can do anything with that on a disc too - I'm nervous about getting a pic taken at the interview - I'll look it too.

Thanks again James

Epicman
Glenn S. Hamilton
http://www.cometogetherbooks.com

logos1234567
08-30-2005, 09:38 PM
If I were you I'd say that I had 'got my book published' rather than 'I published it myself.' No need to specifically mention self-publishing unless they ask leading questions about the publisher. You are not lying then.

logos1234567
08-30-2005, 09:38 PM
ps. Go for it. I am rooting for you!!!

HapiSofi
08-30-2005, 10:51 PM
It's HapiSofi - I had to look back quite a way and I forgot Logos and victoria.Antecedent unclear. It's HapiSofi that what?

Aconite
08-30-2005, 10:58 PM
Antecedent unclear. It's HapiSofi that what?
I think he meant, "It's 'HapiSofi' instead of 'Hopisopi'."

I am nearly overwhelmed with the urge to trademark a line of personal cleansing products under the name Hopisopi.

Epicman
08-31-2005, 03:42 AM
Aconite thats my word - even if it was a screw-up. HapiSofi - I misspelled your name in an earlier post it is right above the one you are referring to. I was only correcting myself and apologizing to you for misspelling your name - sorry.

Thank you Logos.

I am nervous big time - the interview is a first for me. I expected that the smaller papers would pick up on me first (practice) then the big guys - not the other way around. Trying to dose my meds correctly so that I'm not in apparent pain but not out of it either is the hard thing - definitely do not want to screw that up.

I've been going through my clothes - I wear shorts and flip flops ALL the time. I haven't had a pair of pants on since January. My wife says I have to loose the dew rag though - it is my trademark. Blue with little bones all over it - Bonehead - that is my nickname. I'll lose it - she says they won't take me seriously looking like a hippie-biker. Black or khaki Dockers and a polo shirt is what I think I'll settle on.

Thanks for the advice and I'll let you all know how it went.

Epicman
Glenn S. Hamilton
http://www.cometogetherbooks.com

Epicman
09-01-2005, 05:26 AM
I was all worked up over nothing... The staff at the paper really made me feel at ease. They asked if I wanted to do the photo shoot before or after the interview - I chose before. They had a photography studio where they took about 30 shots of me with the book and then the photographer took 2 dozen more while the interview was going on. It lasted about an hour.

The article is running tomorrow - the release date for the book. They did not ask who published the book - so I didn't offer up anything other than to state - a fact - the book will be printed simultaneously in the US and UK. (With Diggory all North American orders are printed in the US and all the rest are printed in the UK.)

James - the reporter really liked the packet I provided with the items you suggested - Thank You.

I'll keep posting as things develop and post a link to the electronic version of the paper when the article is up.

Epicman
Glenn S. Hamilton
http://www.cometogetherbooks.com

Epicman
09-02-2005, 07:59 PM
I found out, through my publisher, that you can find out where any book is listed on-line at www.bookfinder4u.com (http://www.bookfinder4u.com). It lists all the book vendors world-wide along with the prices for the book, shipping, and shipping times.

Epicman
Glenn S. Hamilton
http://www.cometogetherbooks.com

Epicman
09-02-2005, 08:14 PM
The article made the front page. You can see it at www.edmondsun.com (http://www.edmondsun.com)
Look down on the lower left for a little pic of the front page, if you click on it a full-sized pdf opens of the front page. The link to the entire article is at http://www.edmondsun.com/articles/2005/09/02/news/news02.txt

Epicman
Glenn S. Hamilton
http://www.cometogetherbooks.com

NeuroFizz
09-02-2005, 08:56 PM
The article made the front page. You can see it at www.edmondsun.com (http://www.edmondsun.com/)
Look down on the lower left for a little pic of the front page, if you click on it a full-sized pdf opens of the front page. The link to the entire article is at http://www.edmondsun.com/articles/2005/09/02/news/news02.txt

Epicman
Glenn S. Hamilton
http://www.cometogetherbooks.com (http://www.cometogetherbooks.com/)

Hi, Glenn

Congrats. Good marketing move, front page no less. Your next move is to have the book reviewed by people outside our your immediate sphere of activity, which means nationally or internationally, and by both sides. I can't speak for the academic side of religious studies, but for the scientific side, you may want to consider submitting a copy for review to SCIENCE magazine, or something similar.

www.sciencemag.org (http://www.sciencemag.org/)

This is a weekly journal aimed at all areas of science, and it has a huge lay readership in addition to an immense number of academic readers. SCIENCE does book reviews. The British equivalent is NATURE. I suspect you are already familiar with them both. Anyone in the business reads the "want ads" in the back to look for available jobs. Strike while the iron is hot, to use a cliche. Get some serious feedback from both sides, and aim high. If it takes off from there, jump to a traditional publisher.

Good luck. We are anxious to see if you've found one of those niche areas in which self-publishing generates successful sales. And, we wish the best for you.

Epicman
09-02-2005, 10:38 PM
I have already offered a review copy to the bioscience education division of the National Institutes of Health. Science and Nature are both excellent ideas. I thought of trying out a serial publication where they would possibly do excerpts of my book every issue. I'm working on that. I'm going to Little Rock for the weekend and my wife says I better relax - HAHA.

I was wondering if anyone had any input on the pricing the on-line vendors have been giving my book? On www.bookfinder4u.com (http://www.bookfinder4u.com) they list 8-9 sources. One of the US vendors has $13.75 listed while another in the US has over $25! I have a cover price of $13.99 and gave a 35% discount across the board to wholesale vendors. Diggory said that forein markets such as amazon Japan would have a higher shipping rate etc. What is the reason for this?

Thanks again Neurofizz!

Epicman
Glenn S. Hamilton
http://www.cometogetherbooks.com

logos1234567
09-03-2005, 01:30 AM
I think you have misunderstood 'bookfinder' as you are probably browsing in us dollar currency for bookshops that ship to the usa - so the prices include say shipping from japan to the usa rather than japan to japan! That's why the shipping seems so expensive The foreign markets will have roughly the same sort of shipping price I think. Bookfinder is by no means showing all the online stores - there are many others. I think bookfinder get paid as an affiliate on sales so only include merchants who have some sort of deal with them.

As to why differant vendors charge differant prices - people will undercut or overprice - that's life and get used to it. On amazon marketplace in particular people ask stupid prices for new books when these books are readily available - but some mugs must buy these books at these prices otherwise they would not list week after week after week or have the feedback they do.

I think what Diggory meant was that your book's retail price in Japan or Australia or wherever would be higher than at the straight exchange rate because of the price of shipping your book from Ingram in the USA to Japan etc to the retailer - not at the other end at the point of sale to the customer.

Epicman
09-07-2005, 09:00 AM
Back from Little Rock I had a mess of email and a lot of catching up to do on schoolwork. Since the front page article hits on my web site have been six to seven times the usual. I have taken 40 more orders the last two days and a lot (over 75) of emails from people who won't purchase over the internet. They want to know where and when they can purchase the book. I put in my order today - the proof was excellent. I am negotiating a signing with my university library. Their director called today and said they had never had an author do a signing in the library before. She wanted to know if I wanted them to provide food and beverages and what kind of budget she should request. I told her that I needed a table and a few chairs and an easel for my display and that hopefully my signing could complement another event already planned. She about gushed when I said I'd donate a few copies of my book for the library.

I'm still working on press releases for magazines and newspapers. And have an interview with the university's newspaper.

Epicman
Glenn S. Hamilton
http://www.cometogetherbooks.com

logos1234567
09-08-2005, 03:11 PM
My website used to get loads of hits but just a handful of sales. I finally realised that however good my website looked many people will still not want to buy from websites they don't know, or they cannot be bothered to register on the site or do whatever they think is needed to order your book (even if you make it simple for them, they expect it to be complicated) - therefore I included a direct link to my books on amazon and my sales shot way up. People trust Amazon. Amazon also gives your book more credibility (in the public's eyes). For those people who do not have credit cards, put your mailing address and other details for checks. Spell it out for people so that they do not have to email you with questions because for everyone that emails you probably ten people will not bother and just click off elsewhere.

She wanted to know if I wanted them to provide food and beverages and what kind of budget she should request.

Free food and students - good mixture - bound to be a winner!

Epicman
09-10-2005, 07:00 AM
I couldn't find any info on their website, though that they were increasing royalties. Don't they still pay 20% on retail and 10% on wholesale? Plus they do pay authors royalties on what the authors buy themselves, so that helps.

I needed 20 copies of one of my books ("Peevish Advice") for a speaking engagement I'm doing next week. I called Infinity late Tuesday afternoon. My books were on my doorstep today (Friday). Not bad delivery time. Plus, with 20 (ordered at the usual 40% off retail), I don't have to pay shipping, and I'll get royalties.


You need to check Diggorypress.com

They are far lower than Infinity on set-up ($260 for everything) and you get a flat cost for authors - my orders of 200 copies are about 75% off retail and they fulfill orders at a flat $4.80 leaving the difference for the author (over 60% royalty). So far I have been getting about a 5-6 business day turn-around on shipments and the shipping is only $45 for 200 copies (still getting over a 70% discount off retail. The quality is excellent and you can expect your book within 1 month (mine was less than 3 weeks) from turning in your manuscript. All orders - even author's - are tabulated for figuring total copies sold. While you are not getting a royalty for author copies you are not paying one either.

Epicman
Glenn S. Hamilton
http://www.cometogetherbooks.com

PVish
09-10-2005, 08:08 AM
You need to check Diggorypress.com
]

I checked the site. I did not find a toll-free number (or any phone number) on the home page or on the contact page. I also did not find a street address in the United States. Infinity has both.

I also could not find the name of an actual human being on Diggory's site. Also, they seem to offer four fonts. Arial? Bell? They're sans serif! Books are usually done in a serif font for readability. Infinity lets me choose my font and size. Infinity also gives me a lot of freedom in cover design. As a returning author, I get a discount on set-up fees—and another discount for attending a conference where Infinity's rep was a panelist.

Does a Diggory author's rep participate in any American bookfests, conferences, etc.? I really enjoyed being treated to a very nice lunch compliments of Infinity (who also displayed my books) on Publisher's Day at the 2005 Festival of the book in Charlottesville, VA. (Infinity also had a lounge with coffee and snacks for its authors.) Another thing I like about Infinity is the monthly royalty statement.

If Diggory meets your needs, fine. But Infinity has worked well for me so far on my three niche books of local interest. My next project doesn't lend itself as readily to POD, so I am trying commercial publishers. However, if I ever do another niche book, I will probably go with Infinity.

Becky

Epicman
09-10-2005, 06:32 PM
Since Diggory charges 11 pounds a year to maintain a book, this was a turn-off for me. The book I ordered from Infinity last week was published in 2001. Infinity charges nothing to keep a book listed (I hesitate to say "in print").




That is about $20 a year. This is done mainly because of those who just publish a book for personal reasons and it just sits. I bet if I were to ask - and my book was making them money - they would waive the fee. It is still something that you end up paying for upfront with Infinity. Think about the price difference - If Diggory can set up a book for as little as $50 and make money what is all the extra for at Infinity?



How do bookstores and other shops order? The small bookstore (the only one in my county) and the gift shops that stock my books call Infinity directly.



Everthing is on a menu like order - $50 to setup the book, $90 for an ISBN, barcode, and listing on all the on-line book vendors and Ingrams, etc. Bookstores everywhere order through Ingrams - that is how they order the book. For an additional $60 -my choice- my book will be in Ingrams catalogue that goes out to over 20,000 bookstores.

I do think it is great that they work for you - Congrats! I do think that the authors looking here - well the majority - will be seeking a much broader readership than a multi-county area. There is nothing wrong with your idea - don't get me wrong - like you said: we both found what works for us.:)

WordedWrite
09-10-2005, 09:01 PM
I couldn't find any info on their website, though that they were increasing royalties. Don't they still pay 20% on retail and 10% on wholesale? Plus they do pay authors royalties on what the authors buy themselves, so that helps.
Becky

Hi Becky,

The September issue of Infinity's newsletter, The Author's Advocate, included information about the increase in royalties effective 9/1/05. They are now 30% on retail and 15% on wholesale. Royalties on author purchases remain at 10%. I've never seen royalty information on their web site--it's in the guide they send to inquirers, and now it's in this newsletter that I assumed went to all their authors. You might want to call for a copy if you haven't received one yet.

Marilyn Haight

logos1234567
09-10-2005, 09:07 PM
I also could not find the name of an actual human being on Diggory's site

Where do you find the name of most human beings on any website? If you tried emailing them you may have got a response from a real person and then develop a relationship with them.

Also, they seem to offer four fonts. Arial? Bell? They're sans serif! Books are usually done in a serif font for readability. Infinity lets me choose my font and size. Infinity also gives me a lot of freedom in cover design.

You have the choice of any fonts you like and any cover design you like. The suggested fonts you mention are ones that they mention that many authors are already familiar with. You can have anything you like though and format it any way you like. You also have the choice of more sizes then many places - as unlike LULU, Diggory Press do trade paperback size and hardback.

As a returning author, I get another discount for attending a conference where Infinity's rep was a panelist.

Er...big deal. Not worth paying all that much extra for. I'm sure Diggory would treat you to a cream tea with the Queen in London if you paid extra for it in your set up fees, or could discount you for anything for anywhere if they charged you extra for in the set-up fees - but that's not what it is about is it? These sort of things like luncheons etc are vanity type things really, tickling the author's ego, but not producing extra booksales.

As to a toll free number, that would increase costs dramatically to pay people to take the calls as well as the actual telephone costs. Lulu does not have a toll free number either. However unlike Lulu, Diggory authors do have a telephone number to talk to someone real. As to the maintenance charge, again would you rather you paid it all up front as you do with Infinity. The plus with Diggory is they do itemise this and so that authors if they wish to can cancel their title after the first year and not pay this charge ever (as it is not chargeable for the first year.)

If you are happy with Infinity, then great, but you are paying over the odds for things through them and earning a lot less than you would through Diggory - fact. If going with Infinity makes you feel good of yourself cos you get invited to the odd conference or cream tea then great. I'm sorry, but I look at profit margins. If you want all these extra things with Infinity you gotta pay for them. As they are kind of incidentals and not necessary for book production or book sales then why charge authors for them? Cos you can bet that authors who do not go to the cream tea etc will be charged all the same for it in their set-up costs too. How fair is that?

I liked the fact that Diggory Press will help you in anyway you can so if you want them to design fliers or do press releases for you they will - however they do not bump it into an obligatory package, so if you want to do things for yourself you can.

I have done a lot of research and not only are Diggory Press one of the best companies to work with for speed and sheer niceness of people (and up-front honesty) but they are also the cheapest I have found anywhere in the world. As an incidental, they have just started offering ebooks for sale on amazon and other sites - all you pay is US$25 for an ISBN/ASIN number and you get 60% of all royalties. My ebook was on all the amazons within 4 days from payment, on powells within 2 days. That is impressive.

Epicman
09-13-2005, 11:50 PM
I've been busy sending out press releases. But to update on my experience with Diggory I received my first shipment today and fulfilled all orders received through my web site. The books were packaged neatly and there was no damage at all. The quality is excellent just like the proof I received. It was exactly 1 week from the time of order to get the books.

So you don't have to go back up in the thread the basic numbers are here:

200 copies author cost $700 ($3.50 ea)
Retail/Cover price = $13.95
paid orders (shipped today) 172
Above orders subtotal = $2399.40
S&H Paid with orders = $688.00
Total: $3087.40

Hint: If your publisher ships UPS give yourself a name and have it shipped commercially - I saved about $12.00.

I'll keep updating later.

Epicman
Glenn S. Hamilton
http://www.cometogetherbooks.com

CaoPaux
09-14-2005, 03:07 AM
....give yourself a name and have it shipped commercially...Dare I ask how you're handling the tax and licensing issues for acting as your own distributor?

Epicman
09-14-2005, 05:52 AM
Ingram is the US distributor and it is online at about 35 vendors including Amazon, B&N, Booksamillion, etc. I have my copies printed in the US and use them for internet sales through my website, booksignings, and sending out review copies. There is only a state tax where I am - no local taxes. I keep out of the shipping fees on internet sales taxes for any sales shipped to people in my state and I charge the sales tax on any sold at signings. I keep it all set up in Peachtree accounting software so I know what I have out, what comes in, and what I owe for what. It also keeps track of inventory and I use another spreadsheet based program for shipping labels and such.

It's really not that complicated using Peachtree because it keeps track of taxes too. I formed an LLC and pay quarterly taxes for sales through that as far as the state goes and federal taxes will be paid on a partnership operation.

I once was the financial partner in a design/construction firm so I have some previous knowledge about running a business.

Epicman
Glenn S. Hamilton
http://www.cometogetherbooks.com

CaoPaux
09-14-2005, 07:30 PM
Cool, it sounds like you have a much better grasp of the business side than most. If you haven’t stumbled across them already, there are many writer-oriented tax guides available.

Epicman
09-14-2005, 10:04 PM
Thanks CauPaux. I keep receipts for EVERYTHING even though they go in my accounting system. I went up to the store to get a presentation tri-fold for my book signings. I saved the receipt for that, recorded the mileage to and from the store, save my fuel, oil, and any other expense receipts for my truck. I do mean EVERYTHING. Once I record them in the accounting software (and now you will see the smarta** side of me) I throw them all in a box one for each year. If I ever get audited I have my neatly generated reports from the software. If the IRS wants to get picky - they can sort out the mess:ROFL:

Epicman
Glenn S. Hamilton
http://www.cometogetherbooks.com

Epicman
09-16-2005, 05:49 AM
Just some more info that may be real interesting...

Since it may be confusing my book was published by Diggorypress.com I know this started as the Infinity thread but before anyone says anything this is kind of an experiment. There is very little info about Diggory so I am the test dummy here. This has turned into updates about my experience so others may be better informed.

I found the sites for submitting press releases to Associated Press www.ap.org (http://www.ap.org) and United Press International www.upi.com (http://www.upi.com) and Google has a new Google Print where you can submit your book(s) and make them searchable. Any user may access only 20% of a particular book per month using a search for words. They place links on all your book pages to your website and major online vendors such as Amazon. They also pay YOU for clicks on banners on your book's pages. They do not take a cut from your book sales - it is free in every respect. You can either submit pdf and jpg files of your text and covers or you may send an actual book which they will scan. They also disable print, right-click, etc. so that it is difficult for someone to snatch your work.

It looks like this Google thing will help with marketing - I submitted "Come Together: Creation and Evolution Joined" and will let you all know how that goes.

Epicman
Glenn S. Hamilton
http://www.cometogetherbooks.com

Epicman
09-17-2005, 03:55 AM
Interview #2

After being featured on the front page of one of the OKC Metro's two largest papers the University of Central Oklahoma's Vista has asked me for an interview set for Monday. I'm still working on the signing gig at the library - being the first author ever to do a signing there they are figuring out how to handle it. I am making a tri-fold display to set up on a table. I'm experimenting with glossy photo paper vs. plain paper for text. So far I think it looks OK. Any ideas on displays and what others have tried would be appreciated.

LloydBrown
09-17-2005, 05:11 AM
Any ideas on displays and what others have tried would be appreciated.

The PA message board is full of info on book signings.:idea:

And bookmarks, too. You can sell billions of books if you design a good bookmark. :poke:

Epicman
09-17-2005, 05:59 AM
:banana: :popcorn: :ROFL: :hooray: :TheWave:
The PA Author Cheer Squad
(Formed after hearing about the return policy)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHA
That was funny Mr. Brown but "don't take that tone with PA"

He He

Epicman
09-22-2005, 10:35 AM
Latest Developments:

The first-ever author book signing at the University of Central Oklahoma's Max Chambers Library is scheduled for Sept. 29 at 4:30pm until 7:30pm.

The "Vista" article is due out Thursday Sept. 22 - It may be next Tuesday though. In it I challenge 38 Nobel Prize winners :box: (see below)

On Sept. 16th 38 Nobel Prize winners sent a letter to the Kansas State Board of Ed. asking that they abandon a proposal that says students should be more critical of the theory of evolution. How can a scientist suggest an abandonment of critique when critique is a cornerstone of scientific inquiry?

I wonder where we'd be if Columbus never challenged the theory of a flat world...:Shrug:

On Amazon rankings...
I went searching for info on translating Amazon rankings:

A scientific study was done in 2000 - they concluded that since the formula that Amazon uses to determine rankings is unknown any translation is unreliable. Diggory - my publisher - will share the monthly reports they get from the distributor with me - that is about as accurate as one can get. So for entertainment purposes:

"Come Together: Creation and Evolution Joined" ISBN 190536329X was first noted on Amazon.com at 532,000 (HIGH) on Sept. 1.
Sept. 2 at 77,000
Sept. 3 at 129,000
Sept. 6 at 386,000
Sept. 10 at 512,000
Sept. 15 at 49,000 (LOW)
Sept. 16 at 87,000
Sept. 18 at 120,000
and currently at 388,000
(rounded down nearest 1,000)

It seems to have slowed in its movement back up in numbers but the movement down happens quickly. I have noted that when sales through my web site increase the rankings on Amazon move down (lower numbers). This also happens within a day and for three days following a new press release to UPI and AP.

maestrowork
09-23-2005, 05:52 PM
Any ideas on displays and what others have tried would be appreciated.

Poster for display.

And bookmarks and postcards.

James D. Macdonald
09-23-2005, 06:42 PM
I am making a tri-fold display to set up on a table. I'm experimenting with glossy photo paper vs. plain paper for text. So far I think it looks OK. Any ideas on displays and what others have tried would be appreciated.

Have a sign out front, and sit as close to the front as you can. Have a bowl of wrapped Hershey Kisses on the table. Know where the bathrooms are. Don't rely on the venue to provide the publicity.

Have a teeshirt made up with your book's cover on it. Wear the tee.

Epicman
09-23-2005, 07:19 PM
Thanks Maestrowork and James for some very helpful and "on topic" information. I greatly appreciate it. No I wasnt trying to brag about Amazon numbers - just providing information and maybe looking for comparisons - thanks for yours.

Neurofizz I did have my work/research evaluated by over 40 people before I finalized my book. Many additions and deletions were made. There are three major universities in the area - two of them have a reputation for scientific research. One is the OU Health Sciences Center - one of the leading research institutions in the country.

Anyhow the majority of the forty were from the academic side with an even split between those who indicated an aetheistic point of view and those who believed in a higher power. Of those with an aetheistic viewpoint all of them supported vigorously the separation of church and state and indicated they are actively involved in the cause. Of those who subscribed to a higher power all were Christian with the majority of those being split between Catholic and Baptist. Of all those from the academic side 16 are PhD holders, 4 held Masters degrees, and 5 were students (college). The other reviewers were drawn from the general population with 2 being high school students, 4 were ministers, and the remaining were just regular people. Of those roughly half were aetheists with the remainder being Christian.

I asked all to read the manuscript and to provide the following:

Is there anything you did not understand?
Is there anything inaccurate?
Are there any spelling/grammar mistakes?
Is there anything you disagree with and why?
Is there anything that needs clarification?
Is there anything that should be added?
Are the illustrations and theories within feasable?
Did the writing change your mind about certain things?
Would you recommend this to someone else?

Only 2 dissenters - PhD holders and both aetheists - found major flaws which they could not specify and offer a correction for. None of them found any of my illustrations 'laughable'. A true scientist would say this is wrong and here is why and would follow that up with an alternate explanation - in layperson's terms. The vast majority were excited about the possibilities that a layperson's translation - which is what I wanted to accomplish - would bring as far as a more productive discourse rather than the constant debate and browbeating that is prevalent within the topic. More importantly the high school students understood the writing and the more advanced readers found it engaging.

As far as peer review I have done that - but in a different way. One of my main contentions is that the Creation/Evolution debate has gone on so long due to one side (scientific) burying the other in technical jargon that they cannot comprehend. This is further complicated because unqualified translators (journalists) interpret these scientific journals, add their sensationalistic twists, and deliver them to the masses leaving them with inaccuracies and misconceptions. Look at the cloning debate and its roots for an illustration of this.

To answer another question specifically: I did use the Bible as a basis of comparison because - at least in the US - it is the majority's choice of religious guide. Another important point: my ideas presented in the book are easily "plugged" into other religions that subscribe to a Creationist viewpoint.

I am NOT attempting to get evolution to 'fit' religion. I am attempting to analize each component of evolution theory utilizing the scientific method and delivering the analysis in layperson terminology. I then subject each component to a Biblical support test. I also do the reverse: I subject the individual components of the Biblical Creation event to a scientific method analysis using the question "Does current scientific knowledge support that this occurance is feasable?"

So... if you could get the Creationist side to agree that natural selection, variation of species, use and disuse, etc. is feasable AND scientifically AND Biblically supported how far has this non-productive debate progressed?
If you could get past the 'apes to man' idea that has been keeping the other side totally against any component of evolution theory and get them to consider the rest of the theory how far have we come?

Methods used currently to discredit and humiliate that then turn to technical jargon in an attempt to shoo them away have only proven to be extremely unproductive thus far. This is anti-science and anti-scientific in every sense. My fresh approach to this is a translation of terms that leaves no room for misconception.

Another of you critiques the AP article. If that is true then this further supports my idea of mistranslation by unqualified sources and the spread of misconception - doesn't it? Why dont we try to locate the exact text of the letter and critique that? I still say that the fact that the Kansas boards proposal states a non-support of Intelligent Design takes the "religion-based propaganda" argument out of the equation and still leaves us with the fact that scientists are discouraging the critique of a theory.

Epicman
09-23-2005, 09:13 PM
James,

I agree. Is there a way to preserve the entire first several pages that do deal with PoD, publishing, experiences with PoD, etc. and placing it in the PoD area? I did not intend for a simple statement of my marketing methods to turn into a debate as it has. I will go over and start a thread in take it outside and another in POD for the rest.

There are two "Continuing/moving threads - one in POD and the other in Take it outside.

James I cannot get the link you gave to the letter to work.

Epicman
09-24-2005, 10:14 AM
Banished from Bewares *sniff sniff* :Ssh:

Anyhow - for those interested I am keeping a log with my experiences with an unknown POD Diggorypress.com. Within this thread you can get the scoop from my choosing a POD and everything I've been through and what I am doing now. Occasionally I'll do an accounting just for those of you looking at the financial side of it.

For much more detail look back through this thread. You will find out why Diggory is cheaper than Lulu - if you plan on selling books that is. You will find out that so far no one has be able to find a higher royalty paying pod than Diggory.

You will also find out how to market without a penny of cost - well it takes time - but that is all. As well as some other info that I learned the hard way.

If you dont like posting here - like a lot of you - you may e-mail me through my web site - the link is below.

Glenn

Epicman
09-28-2005, 07:16 AM
UPDATE

Thursday is the book signing at the University of Central Oklahoma's Max Chambers Library from 4:30 till 7:30.

The Edmond Sun will run a story about it tomorrow and Cox Cable Channel 22 wants to do an interview the afternoon of the signing. I'll be on TV! I sent out another round of press releases putting the word "Controversial" in the title - perhaps that will get some more stories.

I'm busier than a one-armed paper hanger so more later.

James D. Macdonald
12-09-2007, 07:41 PM
Further updates (two years on):

Here's Epicman's book: http://books.google.com/books?id=a_SNmRNwrcgC&dq=%22come+together+creation+and+evolution+joined% 22&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=lz9RfKn2ak&sig=99nDy_AiMtYXfCSDvsS1Tdh6l0w#PPP1,M1

And here's how Diggory's turned out:
http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85572

I've read the excerpts of Epicman's book that are available on Google Books (link above).


Is there anything inaccurate?

I'm amazed that no one among the readers/reviewers noted that crocodiles aren't amphibians. "While the dinosaurs were entirely wiped out, other creatures such as mammals, some amphibians like the crocodile, lizards, and the birds somehow survived this mass extinction event and even prospered in what had to be a very harsh environment." (page 58)

That's part of the lead up to the discussion of oil (apparently placed in the earth because the Intelligent Designer knew that we would eventually need it to power our automobiles). "Mass extinction events are the only explanation for these vast crude oil deposits." Alas, mass extinction events aren't the only explanation.

Note too that this book would have profited from copyediting: in the sentence above, "what had to be a very harsh environment" should have read "what had to have been a very harsh environment." The text is littered with grammatical errors.

The extensive section (around page 83) proving that men aren't descended from chimps is another problem: that isn't a claim that anyone's made. The actual evolutionist claim is that chimps and men have a common ancestor; Epicman doesn't address this. I don't see how he got biologists to sign on to his theory, nor do I see how it is that "Only 2 dissenters - PhD holders and both aetheists - found major flaws which they could not specify and offer a correction for." That's a major flaw and it took me less than a minute to specify it. To correct it: address the actual evolutionists' arguments, not a strawman argument.

His theory: (a) the Genesis creation account(s) should be taken as parable (I don't see how he's going to get the Biblical Literalists to agree to this), and (b) Humans aren't actually related to other mammals; they were specially created to exactly resemble mammals (I don't see how he's going to get scientists to agree to this).

The typesetting throughout the book is terrible. As noted, it's set in a sans-serif face. The typesetter seemed to be unaware that hyphens are a possibility: the text is fully justified; sometimes the spaces between words are huge, other times tiny, exactly as you'd expect if the author's text was dumped into a template without having a human (or an intelligent designer) run an eye over it afterward.

victoriastrauss
02-05-2008, 08:10 PM
For more discussion of Diggory Press, see this thread (http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72074) in the Bewares & Background Check forum.

- Victoria