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quicklime
10-10-2010, 10:54 AM
OK, so I'm listening to the audio version of Angels and Demons, and I gotta ask--is Brown supposed to be good, or is he in league with the lady who wrote Twilight and then guy who wrote Bridges of Madison County as an example of how if you hit the market right, technique becomes, umm, a bit less of a necessity?

I got through about three chapters before I found myself going "seriously, wtf!?!". Now, to be fair, I'm still listening, but the guy seems to bring all the subtlety and nuance of a sledgehammer; I'm waiting for the assassin to say something "evilly, as he twirled his long moustache...."

Invincibility
10-10-2010, 11:55 AM
Dan Brown is horrible. He's the same author who... well, did this (http://community.livejournal.com/linguaphiles/3257513.html).

If you don't know anything about Japanese, just take my word for it when I say it gave me a headache that lasted nearly a day.

scarletpeaches
10-10-2010, 12:20 PM
I'm just posting here so I'll have the subscription for reading when the thread's locked.

Wayne K
10-10-2010, 12:25 PM
:popcorn:

Shakesbear
10-10-2010, 12:30 PM
OK, so I'm listening to the audio version of Angels and Demons, and I gotta ask--is Brown supposed to be good, or is he in league with the lady who wrote Twilight and then guy who wrote Bridges of Madison County as an example of how if you hit the market right, technique becomes, umm, a bit less of a necessity?

I got through about three chapters before I found myself going "seriously, wtf!?!". Now, to be fair, I'm still listening, but the guy seems to bring all the subtlety and nuance of a sledgehammer; I'm waiting for the assassin to say something "evilly, as he twirled his long moustache...."

Best review of Brown I've read. I found his first book - the Code thingy - boring and predictable. I did not finish it and it went into the recycling bin.

quicklime
10-10-2010, 12:31 PM
I'm just posting here so I'll have the subscription for reading when the thread's locked.


dan a sacred cow here?

I just thought his writing was really clumsy; seems many aren't shy about Stephanie Meyers.....

RobJ
10-10-2010, 12:49 PM
OK, so I'm listening to the audio version of Angels and Demons, and I gotta ask--is Brown supposed to be good, or is he in league with the lady who wrote Twilight and then guy who wrote Bridges of Madison County as an example of how if you hit the market right, technique becomes, umm, a bit less of a necessity?

I got through about three chapters before I found myself going "seriously, wtf!?!". Now, to be fair, I'm still listening, but the guy seems to bring all the subtlety and nuance of a sledgehammer; I'm waiting for the assassin to say something "evilly, as he twirled his long moustache...."
Just in case you hadn't noticed, 'good' is subjective.

quicklime
10-10-2010, 12:52 PM
Just in case you hadn't noticed, 'good' is subjective.


thanks for the clarification; I was utterly stumped by the notion of fact versus opinion. ;)


Anyone else with thoughts on brown and/or Peaches suggestion the thread is headed for the crapper? Seems I came late and there must have been recurring drama I'm unaware of......

dpaterso
10-10-2010, 01:13 PM
Oh man, not another Brown-bashing thread... :cry: Have mercy!

His many defenders point out that he ends every chapter with a cliffhanger that keeps the pot boiling.

A goodly portion of his detractors seem to be writers.

His sales figures can't be argued with.

-Derek

gothicangel
10-10-2010, 01:18 PM
After being subjected to The Shining [against my will] I could do a Stephen King WTF thread. But I won't.

If it sells, it sells. A lot of people enjoy these writers, so who am I to criticise? Just don't expect me to read them.

seun
10-10-2010, 02:32 PM
dan a sacred cow here?


No. It's just the Dan Brown issue comes up a lot. Usually followed by someone pointing out good is all a matter of opinion. Then someone asks if good is all about opinion, then why do we spend our time learning the rules and how to write well. Then someone else says he's sold a billion books, so he must be good. Then I have a cry.

Christine N.
10-10-2010, 03:26 PM
I'd say that Brown uses controversial subjects - like religion and the history thereof - in order to spark interest in his books.

I didn't hate Angels and Demons OR The DaVinci Code AS STORIES. I liked the chase, the puzzles, and the storyline. The WRITING made me want to toss the book against the wall. His style and overuse of adverbs is distracting, as is his weak characterization.

And if you're not a writer, it probably doesn't affect you as much. Before I started writing seriously, I was reading Eoin Colfer's Artemis Fowl series. I liked it. After I started writing, I couldn't stand it. It was still clever and fun, but he uses adverbs like they were water, instead of sprinkling them he pours them. It drove me nuts and I can no longer read his books. But kids still love them.

jana13k
10-10-2010, 04:54 PM
Two words - high concept.

Aerial
10-10-2010, 05:27 PM
I got about a third of the way into DaVinci Code before I had to put it down. It wasn't so much the mechanics of the writing, it was Brown's tendency to withhold information from the reader that the main character already knew. In other words, Langdon would discover some new piece of the puzzle, but instead of letting the reader discover it with him, Brown withheld the information until a later chapter. It drove me absolutely bonkers.

I thought the level of the writing was... meh. Good enough for publication, but not good enough that I would want to see it used as a standard for showing aspiring authors how it should be done.

Aerial

Maxinquaye
10-10-2010, 05:34 PM
I once started a Dan Brown thread. It didn't end well...

entropic island
10-10-2010, 06:28 PM
The DaVinci Code was written in a fast paced manner, but I enjoyed that. HOWEVER; I enjoyed it with one book. It only works for one book. After that, it's old.

The DaVinci Code was interesting and clever. Angels & Demons wasn't.


But seriously, lay off Dan Brown, why don't you bash James Patterson? He gets way more money than Dan Bron with his..."literature".

Maxinquaye
10-10-2010, 06:33 PM
I think I started a James Patterson thread too. It didn't end well either.

I think I see a pattern here...

:gone:

:o

swvaughn
10-10-2010, 06:43 PM
And if you're not a writer, it probably doesn't affect you as much. Before I started writing seriously, I was reading Eoin Colfer's Artemis Fowl series. I liked it. After I started writing, I couldn't stand it. It was still clever and fun, but he uses adverbs like they were water, instead of sprinkling them he pours them. It drove me nuts and I can no longer read his books. But kids still love them.

Really? I honestly didn't notice this. (Not saying it isn't present, just that I never realized :)) I love the Artemis Fowl series - just ordered the seventh one from Amazon, actually.

Now I'm going to be looking for adverb abuse while I'm reading it. Drat. :tongue

gothicangel
10-10-2010, 06:48 PM
The DaVinci Code was written in a fast paced manner, but I enjoyed that. HOWEVER; I enjoyed it with one book. It only works for one book. After that, it's old.

The DaVinci Code was interesting and clever. Angels & Demons wasn't.


But seriously, lay off Dan Brown, why don't you bash James Patterson? He gets way more money than Dan Bron with his..."literature".

No author bashing please.

Discuss the books, but there's no need to attack authors.

jana13k
10-10-2010, 06:54 PM
Well, to start a discussion of Patterson's book, you'd have to actually know which ones he wrote. Good luck with that.

Dan Brown has high concepts that are controversial and make for easy marketing and great adaptation to film. No matter the quality of the actual writing, there's always something writers can learn from those who have been very successful - even if it's what NOT to do. :)

entropic island
10-10-2010, 07:00 PM
No author bashing please.

Discuss the books, but there's no need to attack authors.
But everyone is just bashing Dan Brown! I mean, it's not that bad, but...
Case in point, right after your post:


Dan Brown has high concepts that are controversial and make for easy marketing and great adaptation to film. No matter the quality of the actual writing, there's always something writers can learn from those who have been very successful - even if it's what NOT to do. :)

jana13k
10-10-2010, 07:06 PM
How is that bashing Dan Brown? I am actually complimenting his ability to come up with high concept ideas that make him millions. I also read his books and enjoy them for what they are. My point about what not to do is actually directed at other big authors who have made silly errors in judgment with the press, book review sites, etc.

But if you're asking me do I think Dan Brown's book contain great prose, then I'd have to say "no." But then define "great prose."

Qbynewbie
10-10-2010, 07:18 PM
If someone asks me if a book is good, I need to know the yardstick that I'm supposed to use to measure the book. There are lots of different ways that a book can be "good" and a fair number of ways that a book can be "not good". Often a book that is "good" in one way is "not good" in another. So the standard one is using needs to be known and also what the author was attempting to do with the book.

I read The DaVinci Code and thought it was a fun read. I read Angels and Demons and enjoyed it, but a little less so. I haven't read anything else by him.

My sense is that Brown was trying to write novels that would appeal to the market with fast-paced, interesting stories. If so, the evidence is fairly strong that he succeeded. He probably was also hoping to make some money and he probably succeeded there, too. So are the books good? I dunno: if the author set out to do something and succeeded, success is a little hard to argue with. I think there are a lot of readers out there (including myself) who found his stories interesting enough to enjoy them. That's also a measure of "good".

If, however, one takes the books and starts comparing them to acknowledged literary masterpieces, they might not seem quite as "good". That's ok, it's a different standard and one Brown probably wasn't trying to reach.

There have been authors of series of hard-boiled novels or whatever who have gotten bored with their series and turned to other things in an attempt to write "better" books -- and found less commercial success with those books. Does that mean that those other, more serious books weren't as good as the previous, less-serious novels? Nope; it just means that they were different.

In the end, for most readers, a book is good if it keeps them interested and not good if it doesn't. It's almost as simple as that.

entropic island
10-10-2010, 07:20 PM
You complimented him on his ability to make books commercially optimum.

"No matter the quality of the actual writing, there's always something writers can learn from those who have been very successful - even if it's what NOT to do. :) "

I'd say that's bashing.


The DaVinci Code is one of those controversial things that's not the best thing ever and is ridiculously popular, and because of these factors gets a bad reputation.

entropic island
10-10-2010, 07:21 PM
If someone asks me if a book is good, I need to know the yardstick that I'm supposed to use to measure the book. There are lots of different ways that a book can be "good" and a fair number of ways that a book can be "not good". Often a book that is "good" in one way is "not good" in another. So the standard one is using needs to be known and also what the author was attempting to do with the book.

I read The DaVinci Code and thought it was a fun read. I read Angels and Demons and enjoyed it, but a little less so. I haven't read anything else by him.

My sense is that Brown was trying to write novels that would appeal to the market with fast-paced, interesting stories. If so, the evidence is fairly strong that he succeeded. He probably was also hoping to make some money and he probably succeeded there, too. So are the books good? I dunno: if the author set out to do something and succeeded, success is a little hard to argue with. I think there are a lot of readers out there (including myself) who found his stories interesting enough to enjoy them. That's also a measure of "good".

If, however, one takes the books and starts comparing them to acknowledged literary masterpieces, they might not seem quite as "good". That's ok, it's a different standard and one Brown probably wasn't trying to reach.

There have been authors of series of hard-boiled novels or whatever who have gotten bored with their series and turned to other things in an attempt to write "better" books -- and found less commercial success with those books. Does that mean that those other, more serious books weren't as good as the previous, less-serious novels? Nope; it just means that they were different.

In the end, for most readers, a book is good if it keeps them interested and not good if it doesn't. It's almost as simple as that.
This.

Wayne K
10-10-2010, 07:21 PM
I'd kick Dan Brown's ass in a wrasslin match

Raindrop
10-10-2010, 07:24 PM
I don't like his writing style, nor his characters (I find them too Mary-Sueish for my tastes). As for the ideas, yes, I can understand the interest his books gather.

I was definitely curious about the Da Vinci Code. I felt cheated, though, because of the way the book was advertised as "full of research and secrets and yaddi yadda and true schtuff of doom", when in fact it's... not. But that's a marketing problem, not an idea problem.

entropic island
10-10-2010, 07:25 PM
If you enjoy his books, you enjoy his books. If you don't, you don't.

I think this thread is merely a severe case of hype backlash (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HypeBacklash).

jana13k
10-10-2010, 07:28 PM
You complimented him on his ability to make books commercially optimum.

"No matter the quality of the actual writing, there's always something writers can learn from those who have been very successful - even if it's what NOT to do. :) "

I'd say that's bashing.


If you consider that bashing, you must have very thin skin. I also didn't say "no matter the quality of DAN BROWN'S writing." I could have been speaking of any commercially successful author that is by and large also considered hack by the writer's community.

Wayne K
10-10-2010, 07:29 PM
If you think he stinks as a writer, ya have to appreciate what he's done with his lack of writing skills. While everyone is asking, why? I'm asking, how?

Writing isn't my problem, selling it is.

entropic island
10-10-2010, 07:32 PM
If you consider that bashing, you must have very thin skin. I also didn't say "no matter the quality of DAN BROWN'S writing." I could have been speaking of any commercially successful author that is by and large also considered hack by the writer's community.
I was using it as an example because you were insulting Dan Brown, even if slightly ("even if it's what not to do") right after the post saying book bashing only.

jana13k
10-10-2010, 07:37 PM
Aidan - you're exhausting me. It is likely very easy to find someone calling Dan Brown everything under the sun. Please stop putting words into my posts. I like Dan Brown. I have all his books. I enjoyed them. But I would have to live under a rock to not be aware of what many publishing industry professionals think about the quality of his work.

Why does it matter to you so much what people think? I have no problem saying I like his books. Do you think it somehow speaks less of you to say you enjoy something other people don't? Does that somehow make you less valid as a writer? I don't think it does. That's why there are brown cars and green cars. Because all people do not like the same thing. And all people read for different reasons. I read solely for escape, which is why DB's novels appeal to me. They are entertaining and fast-paced and I don't have to take on a lesson about myself or the world or keep notes while reading.

entropic island
10-10-2010, 07:40 PM
Aidan - you're exhausting me. It is likely very easy to find someone calling Dan Brown everything under the sun. Please stop putting words into my posts. I like Dan Brown. I have all his books. I enjoyed them. But I would have to live under a rock to not be aware of what many publishing industry professionals think about the quality of his work.
That was not clear from your earlier posts.


Why does it matter to you so much what people think?
...It doesn't. I was using it as an example. Like I have said. Twice.


I have no problem saying I like his books. Do you think it somehow speaks less of you to say you enjoy something other people don't?
No. Not at all. As a matter of fact, I'm a huge fan of several books that are considered to be terrible. Including the DaVinci Code. I'm just defending the DaVinci Code using the reasons I believe it's good.



Does that somehow make you less valid as a writer?
No. I hate C.S. Lewis, love J.R.R. Tolkein and Tolkein loved Lewis' work. So...no.

BenPanced
10-10-2010, 07:46 PM
*checks watch*

Good Lord, it's been HOW LONG without a Dan Brown thread?! We're gettin' sloppy here, people!

Up next: how the election of Barack Obama led to the popularity of Stephenie Meyer.

Jamesaritchie
10-10-2010, 08:00 PM
OK, so I'm listening to the audio version of Angels and Demons, and I gotta ask--is Brown supposed to be good, or is he in league with the lady who wrote Twilight and then guy who wrote Bridges of Madison County as an example of how if you hit the market right, technique becomes, umm, a bit less of a necessity?

I got through about three chapters before I found myself going "seriously, wtf!?!". Now, to be fair, I'm still listening, but the guy seems to bring all the subtlety and nuance of a sledgehammer; I'm waiting for the assassin to say something "evilly, as he twirled his long moustache...."

Whoever told you technique, or how well you write, meant anything? Though I would suggest reading, rather than listening.

Poor writing? Absolutely. Not horrible, nowhere near slush pile bad, just not very good. The quality of Brown's writing is poor, it is bad, but it's competent, and that's all it takes, if you have the things that really matter.

Now, Da Vinci Code sucks at many levels, including the incredibly inept and inaccurate research that Brown actually claims is fact. It sucks in the quality of the writing. It has cardboard characters. On and on.

But Brown found a story readers wanted, and gave them characters they liked. If you can do this, most readers simply don't care about poor writing. Nor should they. Most have no clue what is good or bad writing. Nor should they. Darned few read fiction in order to savor the quality of the writing. They want story and character, not writing. Good for them.

Meyer is also competent, not as bad as many try to say she is, and also has a story and characters that readers love.

Waller isn't nearly as bad as many claim, and it's primarily his dialogue that comes across as pretty stilted.

But Brown, Meyer, and Waller all did the thing that every writer should strive to do, which is find the story and the characters that readers love. Asking more than this from any writer simply isn't fair.

entropic island
10-10-2010, 08:01 PM
*checks watch*

Good Lord, it's been HOW LONG without a Dan Brown thread?! We're gettin' sloppy here, people!

Up next: how the election of Barack Obama led to the popularity of Stephenie Meyer.
Win.

Priene
10-10-2010, 08:03 PM
Good Lord, it's been HOW LONG without a Dan Brown thread?! We're gettin' sloppy here, people!


The man dangles in our minds like the gonads of Satan in the conscience of a mortal sinner.

quicklime
10-10-2010, 08:04 PM
I was using it as an example because you were insulting Dan Brown, even if slightly ("even if it's what not to do") right after the post saying book bashing only.



ok, this is silly. First off, if that is bashing, then what goes on in QLH and the SYW forums is something akin to violent rape.

secondly, I realize brown did not submit to SYW, but nobody said he was a zero-talent hack, a moron, or a turd as a human being. They said his writing has some serious defecits. Are we not to discuss what is wrong with writers and styles, only what is right? That's just silly. Would you get all huffy if someone said Melville was way too long-winded in Moby Dick, or that Gone with the Wind was too slow to find a market today?


I THOUGHT I saw a whole collection of bits and pieces that seemed weak or wonky in Brown's writing, so I asked. Seems others have also. Noting that he has some deficiencies, especially since many of them took great pains to stress he hit his market, he was good at suspense overall, etc., is hardly bashing.

quicklime
10-10-2010, 08:06 PM
But Brown, Meyer, and Waller all did the thing that every writer should strive to do, which is find the story and the characters that readers love. Asking more than this from any writer simply isn't fair.


I agree completely; brown made a story people liked; the same could be said for a lot of grisham's work as well, although less so it seems. Technique/mechanics are only half the equation. I just wanted to double-check that it wasn't me missing something completely.

entropic island
10-10-2010, 08:08 PM
I was...referring...to the post...that said not to....bash authors.......

Okay, seriously, I have no problem with people criticizing Dan Brown. In some cases, I'll defend him, in others, I won't.

But criticizing an author is what the post was referring to that said to stick to talking books only please.

So, let's think about it this way; if that post said to talk about books only, why would I refer to the people who weren't talking about books. I'm not saying your criticisms to harsh, I'm saying that several of them were just about Dan Brown. And they were. That is a fact.

I'm not even saying there's anything wrong with that. I was...read the earlier posts, please.

jana13k
10-10-2010, 08:18 PM
So how exactly should one talk about an author's work without actually talking about the author? Bashing is saying he hates puppies or needs wardrobe advice. Commenting on his writing ability, which is clear in his books, is not bashing.

And as has already been said, he doesn't need to construct great prose to give readers what they want. Nor do I think he cares what a bunch of people on the AW (or any other) forum think.

entropic island
10-10-2010, 08:20 PM
So how exactly should one talk about an author's work without actually talking about the author? Bashing is saying he hates puppies or needs wardrobe advice. Commenting on his writing ability, which is clear in his books, is not bashing.

And as has already been said, he doesn't need to construct great prose to give readers what they want. Nor do I think he cares what a bunch of people on the AW (or any other) forum think.

I wasn't disapproving of it, as I have said, I was merely responding to the comment saying not to bash authors, just talk about books. They said "bash", but I think they meant just criticize specific books. I could be wrong.

Toothpaste
10-10-2010, 08:20 PM
Aidan - please explain to me how "even if what not to do" is a personal attack on the man himself? It's a very common suggestion to writers to analyse books they find lacking in whatever respect and to learn from that what they don't want to do in their own writing. We can learn from Dan Brown a thing or two about finding a topic that hooks into people, we can certainly learn the art of using a cliffhanger chapter ending to propel readers to read on. But we can also, by finding elements of his writing not so hot, learn what we don't want to do as writers ourselves. Frankly I have spoken to enough people to learn that while cliffhanger chapter endings do work, his overuse of them for many people was annoying. That has taught me as a writer that I should use cliffhangers sparingly. It has taught me "what not to do".

How is this bashing the man? I sincerely don't understand why you think it is. Bashing the man would be something about the man himself. Talking about the writing, about how for many authors we can learn techniques we'd rather not use by having read his work and found them annoying in his, that's not bashing.

Now I realise you like his work, but I hope you aren't implying that when someone disagrees with you that's bashing.

Also, bringing in the sour grapes argument, especially on this forum, is really not the smartest move. It isn't true, for one thing, and it is overused often in these threads. It's rude as it suggests that no differing opinion counts as it's just based on petty jealousy, and most of all it lessens the strength of your arguments because the sort of person who resorts to "this is just hype backlash" or "this is sour grapes and you're all jealous" tends not to have any other solid argument to support his feelings on the writing in question. Not saying this is true of you, but this is true of many who use that argument and in choosing to use it, you get tainted with their bad reputation.


ETA: uh no. Bashing means putting down a person, not the work. And the reason some people mentioned it in this thread is that Dan Brown is one of the most talked about authors on this forum, for the exact reason the OP started the thread. I'd say it's him, Stephenie Meyer and James Patterson. Thus there's a huge risk that the thread can devolve into personal attacks. However I maintain "learning what not to do" is not a personal attack.

ChaosTitan
10-10-2010, 08:21 PM
:nothing

aruna
10-10-2010, 08:24 PM
I don't get why saying "even if it's what not to do" is author bashing. That's clearly criticism of the book/writing, not the author.

ETA: cross-posted with Toothpaste. Agree 100%.

entropic island
10-10-2010, 08:26 PM
Aidan - please explain to me how "even if what not to do" is a personal attack on the man himself? It's a very common suggestion to writers to analyse books they find lacking in whatever respect and to learn from that what they don't want to do in their own writing. We can learn from Dan Brown a thing or two about finding a topic that hooks into people, we can certainly learn the art of using a cliffhanger chapter ending to propel readers to read on. But we can also, by finding elements of his writing not so hot, learn what we don't want to do as writers ourselves. Frankly I have spoken to enough people to learn that while cliffhanger chapter endings do work, his overuse of them for many people was annoying. That has taught me as a writer that I should use cliffhangers sparingly. It has taught me "what not to do".
Okay, all good points.


How is this bashing the man? I sincerely don't understand why you think it is. Bashing the man would be something about the man himself. Talking about the writing, about how for many authors we can learn techniques we'd rather not use by having read his work and found them annoying in his, that's not bashing.
Okay, I was responding to the person who said let's only talk about books. That's who I was referring to and then the other person asked how they were talking about the author and this started.



Now I realise you like his work, but I hope you aren't implying that when someone disagrees with you that's bashing.
Not at all.


Also, bringing in the sour grapes argument, especially on this forum, is really not the smartest move. It isn't true, for one thing, and it is overused often in these threads. It's rude as it suggests that no differing opinion counts as it's just based on petty jealousy, and most of all it lessens the strength of your arguments because the sort of person who resorts to "this is just hype backlash" or "this is sour grapes and you're all jealous" tends not to have any other solid argument to support his feelings on the writing in question. Not saying this is true of you, but this is true of many who use that argument and in choosing to use it, you get tainted with their bad reputation.
Okay, "hype backlash" and "you're all just jealous" are two different arguments. For example, I loved the movie Avatar, but many people I know hated it because they had been told it was the greatest movie ever and they thought it was anything but. I meant, his work isn't the best but is treated as such by some and so the rest have a larger negative reaction to his work.



ETA: uh no. Bashing means putting down a person, not the work. And the reason some people mentioned it in this thread is that Dan Brown is one of the most talked about authors on this forum, for the exact reason the OP started the thread. I'd say it's him, Stephenie Meyer and James Patterson. Thus there's a huge risk that the thread can devolve into personal attacks. However I maintain "learning what not to do" is not a personal attack.
Read the post. They say "don't bash authors, just talk about the book" So regardless of your definition of "bash", they obviously just want people talking about the book. And I don't even fully agree with them.

entropic island
10-10-2010, 08:28 PM
I don't get why saying "even if it's what not to do" is author bashing. That's clearly criticism of the book/writing, not the author.
Okay, as I have said several times now, the person I was replying to - who I didn't even fully agree with - said no author bashing, just talking about the book. Which means they don't want to talk about the author, regardless of the definition of bash. So I said that people were talking about the author, as I felt that it was a criticism of the author's writing and is criticism.

Toothpaste
10-10-2010, 08:35 PM
Okay, "hype backlash" and "you're all just jealous" are two different arguments.

They are two different arguments that say the same thing, which is: "You are just saying what you are saying because of feelings based on nothing that has to do with the book itself." Both arguments can be sound in some circumstances. There are individuals who will put something down just because it is popular. There are others who are jealous of people and thus put down their work.

My point is that these sorts of people tend not to be at AW.

And in using these arguments you are saying that the person with whom you are debating doesn't have a valid opinion based on the work in question. That they are being blinded by other elements. So while both make different points, they still diss the person with whom you are arguing.



Read the post. They say "don't bash authors, just talk about the book" So regardless of your definition of "bash", they obviously just want people talking about the book. And I don't even fully agree with them.

When someone says you can learn what not to do from a book, they are talking about the book. They aren't bashing the author. I still don't understand what you are going on about. Bashing the author would be "Dan Brown is a horrible person and I hate his hair". Whereas "even if what not to do" is clearly about his writing. Unless of course you were under the impression that the "what not to do" had something to do with his personal lifestyle or something. Which could be an honest mistake, but a mistake nonetheless.

jana13k
10-10-2010, 08:48 PM
Has anyone ever noticed that sometimes writers seem to have the worst reading comprehension and communication abilities? LOL

Wayne K
10-10-2010, 08:51 PM
He really should do something with his hair

RobJ
10-10-2010, 08:54 PM
This thread has degenerated into a discussion about who said what in their posts and what they really meant when they said it. That's usually a sign that it's run its course.

geardrops
10-10-2010, 08:55 PM
One time I saw Dan Brown on the subway and I told him his shoelace was untied and then I found five dollars.

That was a pretty cool day.

Lauretta
10-10-2010, 09:04 PM
Popcorn anyone?

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/8125/popcornf.jpg

dpaterso
10-10-2010, 09:05 PM
Yeah, going the same way as previous DB threads, let's put this one to bed and go get some writing done instead.

-Derek