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WalkingContradiction
10-07-2010, 08:51 PM
Just wanted to share this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbhrz1-4hN4&feature=player_embedded

I think it's hilarious! Works pretty well for books too.

Tiger
10-07-2010, 10:17 PM
That's quite offensive, actually.

WalkingContradiction
10-07-2010, 11:23 PM
If you think that's offensive, have you ever watched south park? I think it's perfectly okay to laugh at something like this (or even SP) as long as one is aware that it's not representing real situations.

I thought it was funny because I instantly recognized the movies that were caricaturized. But yeah I'm sorry you find it offensive, I should have added a disclaimer or something.

Tiger
10-07-2010, 11:53 PM
I've seen South Park. And?

As to whether or not your clip represents "real situations" well, that's debatable. "Retard" is real enough. So is the fact of a caricature of a developmentally challenged person being thrown into a comedy clip for laughs.

WalkingContradiction
10-08-2010, 12:28 AM
There's a South Park episode called 'cripple fight'. At one point, Cartman runs into a church, yells 'cripple fight!', all the people run outside and watch two handicapped eight-year-olds beat each other bleeding.

And I'm pretty sure the word 'retard' is mentioned a couple of times too. Also, if you look at today's youth, 'retard' is a common word. "Are you retarded?" is pretty much the default response to any dumb statement. The thing is, people aren't even aware of it being offensive, and most people don't have any problem with the handicapped.

I'm not saying I condone or even encourage the use of 'retard'. Just wanted to point out that it's also a matter of generation. And I think there's a good case to be made for breaking taboos in comedy. Yeah, people get offended, but it's freedom of speech. Take South Park again, they make fun of literally everything, except Muhammad. When they did, the creators got death threaths and the show had to be censored. That's not good either! In a way, I think being able to make fun of things is one of the greatest achievements of the West. There is of course a fine line, and I'm pretty South Park has crossed that line several times, but somehow it has become tradition there.

Either way, have you noticed that we are having this discussion precisely because of offending statements?

I have a feeling that this thread is gona be deleted or moved to the junk threads, but oh well.

Thanks for pointing out your opinion, I think it's important to raise consciousness about such issues.

Mr Flibble
10-08-2010, 12:50 AM
So is the fact of a caricature of a developmentally challenged person being thrown into a comedy clip for laughs.


Or maybe they're poking fun at the way Hollywood uses peoples' afflictions willy nilly for OMG drama. In much the same way Tropic Thunder did. Some people thought that was offensive, and maybe it is. It's also rather a damning indictment of Hollywood cynicism, which to my mind is as, or more, offensive.

Tiger
10-08-2010, 01:13 AM
There's a South Park episode called 'cripple fight'. At one point, Cartman runs into a church, yells 'cripple fight!', all the people run outside and watch two handicapped eight-year-olds beat each other bleeding.

Okay. So, South Park is offensive.


Also, if you look at today's youth, 'retard' is a common word. "Are you retarded?" is pretty much the default response to any dumb statement.

Funny how those words remain almost universally unused by people who work with the handicapped, live with the handicapped, or are themselves handicapped. But, these are a minority of the population so, it's okay?


The thing is, people aren't even aware of it being offensive,

Maybe "people" are the kind of creatures that need to be made aware of things once in a while.


and most people don't have any problem with the handicapped.

How fortunate for the handicapped.


I'm not saying I condone or even encourage the use of 'retard'.

But you will post one of the worst ways to use it in a public forum. Condoning? No. Encouraging? No. Perpetuating? Yes.


And I think there's a good case to be made for breaking taboos in comedy. Yeah, people get offended, but it's freedom of speech.

Where did I make a case for censorship? I didn't. I'm simply telling you that I found that clip to be offensive.


Take South Park again,

Okay.


they make fun of literally everything, except Muhammad. When they did, the creators got death threaths and the show had to be censored. That's not good either!

I agree. Censorship is not good... But, are you sure you're using the word correctly? Did some agency legally bind them from using the language they used, or did they, or the network, do so voluntarily (i.e.: after receiving death threats or pressure from their sponsors)?


In a way, I think being able to make fun of things is one of the greatest achievements of the West. There is of course a fine line, and I'm pretty South Park has crossed that line several times, but somehow it has become tradition there.

I agree. Humor is good.


Either way, have you noticed that we are having this discussion precisely because of offending statements?

Yes, and that is good as well.


I have a feeling that this thread is gona be deleted or moved to the junk threads, but oh well.

Thanks for pointing out your opinion, I think it's important to raise consciousness about such issues.

You are welcome. Don't let my curmudgeonly discharge interfere too much with your self expression.

Tiger
10-08-2010, 01:21 AM
Or maybe they're poking fun at the way Hollywood uses peoples' afflictions willy nilly for OMG drama. In much the same way Tropic Thunder did. Some people thought that was offensive, and maybe it is. It's also rather a damning indictment of Hollywood cynicism, which to my mind is as, or more, offensive.

The fact that people were incidentally insulted does not in my mind detract one bit from the insult.

Do you think someone with a real "affliction," his/her parent, older brother, best friend, or spouse would simply laugh it off because butt of the joke is a few yards to the left?

Mr Flibble
10-08-2010, 01:29 AM
No. I do think that maybe if they see people realising how Hollywood insults them too, it might a good thing if it makes people think about how they use the word.

Of course it's all down to point of view. But if one quick use of the word can expose a whole raft of offence, it might be worth it. If someone were to use the word 'mentally ill and unstable' or 'fucking fruitloop' or other such words, in such a way, I wouldn't be offended,even though I am mentally unstable. And probably fucking fruitloop too. I would be glad that such hypocrisy has been exposed. If comedy shows people just how offensive that can be IRL, is it worth it if they then stop using that word offensively?

I don't expect everyone to get offended on my behalf. Or to have the same expectations of what is offensive as me.

However if you are offended, we'll leave it at that. Okay?

Tiger
10-08-2010, 01:32 AM
Fine by me.

JohnnyGottaKeyboard
10-08-2010, 01:53 AM
I thought it was pretty funny, and well-made (except the female love interest was a bit less talented than most of the others). Was it the social-workers' use of the word 'retard' that triggered the hullabaloo above? I started skimming the longer posts about half way down.

WalkingContradiction
10-08-2010, 01:57 AM
Or maybe they're poking fun at the way Hollywood uses peoples' afflictions willy nilly for OMG drama.

Exactly!

And anyway, "developmentally challenged person", really? You might as well directly make fun of it, for such a long and obviously artificial term has the same effect.

DavidZahir
10-08-2010, 02:01 AM
I've seen this before. Very funny, and a good illustration at how formulaic story-telling (especially in movies) reduces complex situations to cute little plot twists.

Tiger
10-08-2010, 02:06 AM
Exactly!

And anyway, "developmentally challenged person", really? You might as well directly make fun of it, for such a long and obviously artificial term has the same effect.

Hah. I guess I've entered the ranks of the PC Police (after all of this time spent on the other side). FWIW, I don't like "developmentally challenged either." But I won't say "retard." Call me fickle.

dclary
10-08-2010, 02:33 AM
No. I do think that maybe if they see people realising how Hollywood insults them too, it might a good thing if it makes people think about how they use the word.

Of course it's all down to point of view. But if one quick use of the word can expose a whole raft of offence, it might be worth it. If someone were to use the word 'mentally ill and unstable' or 'fucking fruitloop' or other such words, in such a way, I wouldn't be offended,even though I am mentally unstable. And probably fucking fruitloop too. I would be glad that such hypocrisy has been exposed. If comedy shows people just how offensive that can be IRL, is it worth it if they then stop using that word offensively?

I don't expect everyone to get offended on my behalf. Or to have the same expectations of what is offensive as me.

However if you are offended, we'll leave it at that. Okay?

Sexiest fucking fruitloop ever, roight?!

dclary
10-08-2010, 02:36 AM
The noob should make himself aware of the fact that several members of the AW ruling body have physically and mentally challenged friends and peers, and find the "r" word **highly** offensive. More so, I think, than the "n" word or almost any other word that can be described with one letter.

Be wary and be responsible. As writers, we have the right to use any word we want. As citizens of this planet we have a responsibility to use them wisely.

Mr Flibble
10-08-2010, 02:48 AM
Sexiest fucking fruitloop ever, roight?!


Yes. OFC. Duh. :D


I know it's an offensive words. Many words are. But if you use them to SHOW offence being subtly perpetrated rather than to MAKE offence? It not the word, it's how you use it.

JohnnyGottaKeyboard
10-08-2010, 03:10 AM
The noob should make himself aware of the fact that several members of the AW ruling body have physically and mentally challenged friends and peers, and find the "r" word **highly** offensive. More so, I think, than the "n" word or almost any other word that can be described with one letter.

Be wary and be responsible. As writers, we have the right to use any word we want. As citizens of this planet we have a responsibility to use them wisely.

Is the "n" word noob? Because I find that word highly offensive. Altho not perhaps unexpected in a paragraph that refers to the "AW ruling body." I seem to recall a recent thread in the newbie forum that argued long and hard against the existence of such a body.

dclary
10-08-2010, 03:19 AM
Is the "n" word noob? Because I find that word highly offensive. Altho not perhaps unexpected in a paragraph that refers to the "AW ruling body." I seem to recall a recent thread in the newbie forum that argued long and hard against the existence of such a body.

I don't speak out against our beloved regime. Not any more, I don't.

entropic island
10-08-2010, 03:28 AM
That clip is brilliant.

WalkingContradiction
10-08-2010, 03:44 AM
So much drama!

I'm surprised no one has yet commented on it being racist. The poor Latin-American doesn't believe in himself, and the man that needs to be proved innocent is black. That's totally racism!

Kristiina
11-05-2010, 04:38 AM
The big problem is that the insulting words keep changing - as far as I know 'retard', as well as most such words, started out as fairly neutral, and 'mentally retarded' was once introduced as a term to replace ones which were used as insults and were deemed as offensive but then people started using it as an insult until the word itself lost any other meaning. You can't win that game by burying the words, they will just be replaced by something else.

Kristiina
11-05-2010, 05:07 AM
Ok, maybe I should try to clarify that a bit. I'm afraid this sort of touched one of my pet peeves.

I'm fat, has always been, and I have been called by most insulting words that exist in my language that refer to that, especially when I was a kid. And I think that when you start 'giving', so to speak, a word to the people who use it as an insult you let them win. Pretty much any word which describes a person who is not young, good-looking, smart, well-dressed etc has been and can be used as an insult, if it is said with a certain tone of voice and in certain type of situations. When those people who are in the receiving end, and their friends, start taking offense at the word itself, even when used in a neutral situation and with a neutral tone of voice, well, as said I think they are, in a way, giving in to the bad guys.

And that is a race you just can't win. Drop one word, it will be replaced with something which right now is seen as non-offensive. Pretty likely that will be the word or phrase somebody made up as the new non-offensive way to describe whatever the condition of the people in case may be. And you can't drop describing these differences from the 'ideal' altogether, if somebody is, say, fat, sometimes you just have to have some way to say that they are.

And no, this doesn't have all that much to do with that fake trailer.

Cyia
11-05-2010, 05:27 AM
That link isn't new here, it was put up when the Oscars rolled around, FWIW.

Manuel Royal
11-06-2010, 06:19 AM
Funny video. I do remember seeing it maybe a year ago.

If a satirical piece doesn't offend somebody, there's probably something wrong with it. Sometimes people get hung up on the form of the satire and don't address the points it makes.

For many years, any reasonably good movie (with a well-known star and good distribution) that shines a positive light on crippled, mentally retarded, autistic, blind, deaf, or otherwise disabled characters has had at least some Oscar buzz. Sometimes they're good, intelligent movies, but sometimes they're pandering, schmaltzy schlock not that far removed from Simple Jack (the fictitious movie starring the fictitious actor played by Ben Stiller in Tropic Thunder).

Of course, sometimes cliches are there just because they work. It's almost impossible to write something that's recognizably a story without something that could be called a cliche.

I don't even know where I'm going with this; just rambling by this point.