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View Full Version : Picture Questions for Offset Printing:Quality,Page Art,Signatures



TopSecret
09-25-2010, 01:14 AM
Hello fellow writing enthuasists, this is my first post so I guess be gentle! I've read several books on self publishing, and have learned a tremendous amount of information from all my resources. I'm taking photoshop class, got the design package with Indesign and am ready to start laying out my book. I've been learning these programs pretty well the last few weeks and finally got my 2gb ram card for computer speed as well as dragon 11. The photoshop class is very helpful learning about graphics, creating logos, reworking master artpiece photos for your own cover art. I also got a monitor on craigslist for 23 bucks. So for a fast, dual monitor, good text speech book writing machine with CS5 Photoshop, Illustrator, and Indesign I made out well on the price of 360 bucks. If I didn't have a student discount, Adobe package alone would've cost 500-600! Dragon is working pretty well, and suprisingly it works with indesign which I didn't think it would. I feel deranged teaching Dragon swear words, kind of ironic. First thing I gotta do is teach him to swear! I think it's also pretty cool what you can learn from dragons mistakes. When it does have a mistake, it can help you think of pseudonyms. If you say a word with a little different patterns, you come up with different pseudos, cool. I am writing and self publishing a one of a kind non-fiction book. I have high hopes as most new writers, but I have all of the skills, motivation, and drive to be successful. I have had to change up many plans as my copyright knowledge expands. Asking companies for permissive use, pictures, authors, legal issues, marketing issues, names, strategy, tradmarks, all that jazz. I have decided on the standard 5.5x8.5 and have estimated at least 400 pages, all the way to 700, not kidding. When I do things, I do em right, and am somewhat of a a ocd perfectionist type (Bi-Polar, mind races and all I do is think). I just today got a self pub book from library. In the firstfive pages I found 3 errors, or very bad use the vocabulary. As I skimmed this over, I realized that my 7-8th grade english teachers did a great job. At my first day of Composition 1, I knit picked at my techers writing so I believe my writing knowledge has evolved from many different writers, of reading I do. Well enough of my intro you peeps got stuff to do too.
Questions for Self-Publishers with knowledge or experience

Spec: 452 page, white offset, black and white,50-60#1. 5000-10000 copies
1: Is Page Art considered graphics, or more expesive to make.
For Example, are the little icons you use for warnings, tips, facts, etc considered grapics. How much would a fiction book with no pictures in it's pages cost compared to a book with an average of 1 photo a page. Or how much a color section or signature would cost? Current prices different, paper industry? How about magazine ads, how much have you paid and for what size ads, and what magazine? Anyone with any suggestions, experience, words of wisdom, criticism, advice, tidbits, insider information, grandma's cookies recipes, hoots &Hollars, gravy or bacon-easy methods, your help would be appreciated.

TopSecret
10-01-2010, 01:51 AM
Nothin, not even just a smidgen?

CaoPaux
10-01-2010, 03:26 AM
Unfortunately, your post is such a convoluted jumble it's not clear what you're asking. In general, though, each printer has its own specs and prices, so you'll need to contact the ones you're considering and ask for a quote.

zpeteman
10-01-2010, 04:10 AM
As long as your graphics are black and white, it won't cost you any more money. A book like that, at a run of 5-10k copies, should cost no more than a buck or two. Once you start talking color, the price goes up.

I hope your book is written significantly better than that post or you are going to lose a whole lot of money.

LBlankenship
10-01-2010, 05:38 AM
>For Example, are the little icons you use for warnings, tips, facts, etc considered grapics.

Yes.

>How much would a fiction book with no pictures in it's pages cost compared to a book with an average of 1 photo a page.

For offset printing, full-color photos will add to the price significantly. Digital printing, less so. OTOH, offset is still a bit nicer IMO.

>Or how much a color section or signature would cost? Current prices different, paper industry?

You'll have to ask your printer. You're looking at significant binding costs, too, at that page count.

>How about magazine ads, how much have you paid and for what size ads, and what magazine?

Advertising is a totally different planet.

In general: CMYK, 300dpi or vector, standard bleed is 1/8".

TopSecret
10-01-2010, 07:25 AM
Ohh, where to begin thanks. I dont take my time to edit ramble posts. I just tried to set the scenery for what price range and type of information I can obtain without writing to printers for quotes, just as an estimate without offshore printing, and perhaps people with 16 pages of color? Thank you though. The two bucks max for black and white was nice those tidbits I needed to hear. I am wondering if a 7 X 9 would be cheaper with color photo page every however may pages. That would be a great question for the printer with how they can work them in the easiest.


Hey carlavii, what is bleed for pages, and how much is neccessary for printing without errors. I use Indesign cs5.

TopSecret
10-01-2010, 07:29 AM
I suppose that would be a whole another thread. You should allow room in text wraps, in case the printer moves images a little, it won't mess up in printing.

LBlankenship
10-01-2010, 03:22 PM
>Hey carlavii, what is bleed for pages, and how much is neccessary for printing without errors.

Like I said, 1/8" is standard. Double check with your printer to be sure.

>You should allow room in text wraps, in case the printer moves images a little, it won't mess up in printing.

If the printer moves anything in your book without your full consent, you should raise hell. That's none of their business -- it's strictly garbage in, garbage out.

TopSecret
10-15-2010, 06:30 AM
Muchos Gracias Carlaviii. I will use an 1/8th in bleed. So, I am a still a lil weary about what is and the purpose. Is it room for extra bleeding ink on the sides of your margins? Edges of pages? What' slug? The slug and bleed should all be the same value around the page correct? Again sorry, if ya got the time. You stated in general, 300dpi/vector and CMYK. Tiff files are supposed to be good for books since they can be adjusted without pixel loss right? No? How completely horrible would a JPEG turn out if I had to use a couple because I wouldn't be able to take the picture again?

So graphic count doesn't affect black and white so much?

Also, some books that I have read have color page sections, I am assuming that they do this to make one or two signatures to cut costs and incorporate them in binding. Would anyone happen to know how much a 16 page color signature might add to production costs?

Torgo
10-15-2010, 02:27 PM
Bleed: well, your book is going to be printed on sheets of paper bigger than the actual book, right? Then it's going to be trimmed down to the right size. Because this is not an exact science, you leave yourself a margin for error, literally. Any images that you want to completely fill the page, for example, need to be slightly bigger than the page - they need to 'bleed off' - so that when it's trimmed you don't find slivers of white space at the edges.

Not being a design/layout guru I have no idea if you can work with JPG images without conversion but in general it's the resolution you need to worry about - 300dpi is the way to go. Very small images you can probably get away with at lower res.

LBlankenship
10-15-2010, 03:38 PM
>What' slug? The slug and bleed should all be the same value around the page correct?

Torgo is correct about bleed -- it is anything extending off the page with the intention of being cut off so that there are no margins on the page. You see it all the time in magazines where photos run off the edge of the page.

The slug line consists of various printer's marks and page information. They are all placed outside the final page size and will be cut off along with the bleed. The printer's marks include things like trim marks, bleed marks, and various registration marks... and they are added automatically when you print something out. There will be a check box somewhere in the print options for adding printer's marks and page information.

Check with your printer about whether they want that on the final PDF you will be sending them. If you're sending the application files, they will take care of it themselves.

>Tiff files are supposed to be good for books since they can be adjusted without pixel loss right? No? How completely horrible would a JPEG turn out if I had to use a couple because I wouldn't be able to take the picture again?

TIF files -- correct, though there are limitations to everything when it comes to pixels. JPGs can be completely horrible when done wrong, that's why I don't use that format at all.

Resolution is a huge topic, though. In general, the more pixels you start with, the merrier. You can always make things smaller, but you can't always make them bigger. And always keep an original, untouched version of the picture.

>So graphic count doesn't affect black and white so much?

What do you mean by "graphic count". Is your printer only allowing a certain number of graphics?

>I am assuming that they do this to make one or two signatures to cut costs and incorporate them in binding. Would anyone happen to know how much a 16 page color signature might add to production costs?

First part: yes, that's what they do. How much it costs depends entirely on your printer, so you will have to ask them.

TopSecret
10-15-2010, 09:13 PM
Thanks a lot Carla. You've answered my questions very clearly, and I appreciate it. I would hope that a 16 page signature would add too much to the cost, but for my work I will need some color to emphasis detail and of course make it visually appealing. I suppose you have to something for the people that just look at the pictures!