How Long Would It take...Distances/Walking

night-flyer · Sep 15, 2010

I'm horrible at distances, and I don't walk anywhere! Can someone help me judge how long it would take to cross Indiana?
I know there are too many variables to get it exact. But a believable, guess would do.

Three people are traveling on foot across Indiana, how long would it take them if they entered from Illinois and exited into Ohio. Crossing the middle of Indiana.

I have googled Indiana and found out that it is 140 miles wide.

The travelers are ages 17 male, 22 female, and 7 female
They start out everyday at noon (for specific reasons in novel) stop at 4 in the afternoon for 30 or 40 min. Then resume walking until about 8 in the evening, then they hold up for the night. With a short break of 15 or 20 min. in between the walks. I don't know how many miles they could cover in 4 hours time.

Maybe I need a math whiz. This part goes by quickly in the book so there are no stops for fighting a grizzly or something along the way. This is not a day by day detailed part of the novel. No need to calculate weather conditions, unexpected delays, injuries, etc.

I don't know how far a child could walk before resting, but the 17 year old carries her some of the time on his back.

Any help on this would be appreciated. I just need a close believable estimation--days, weeks, months?

Thank you.

DeleyanLee · Sep 15, 2010

How used to they to walking?

When I was that age, I was in reasonable shape and could walk about 3.5 miles an hour without breaking much of a sweat. I generally walked about 3 miles at a time to work and back, so I don't have experience walking for 4 hours straight. I did this without children, which would slow one down because carrying weight does that.

But also remember that you're having them walk through the hottest time of the day, which can also slow them down a bit more as well.

Hope that helps.

Maryn · Sep 15, 2010

A healthy young adult can walk five miles on a paved, level surface in 80 to 90 minutes. The pace usually slackens after about three miles, although assuming they don't have issues like blisters or heavy loads to carry, they can probably continue at twenty-minute miles for some time. It's a pretty easy pace, three miles an hour.

The seven-year-old is going to be the deciding factor, and I have no idea what pace a child can hit and maintain, nor how long she could go on without rest, and how much it will slow the adult carrying her when she rests.

I'm nearing 60 and am substantially overweight, and I do five miles in 80 minutes when I'm really hauling ass. The farthest I've ever walked in a day was a little over nine miles (I lost my car keys when I drove to my favorite walking place) and I could have gone longer if I'd had a half hour's rest and some water.

If your characters are on roads, is there a reason they don't use bicycles? That would be the most efficient way to self-propel across Indiana.

If your characters are not on roads, they will go substantially slower, because uneven ground (fields, forests, farms) and rolling hills require it.

Maryn, veteran walker

LGwenn · Sep 15, 2010

I think that given all the variables, 3 mph is probably a reasonable average ( faster than that at first, but slowing down with time, much slower when carrying the child)

Chris P · Sep 15, 2010

1 day, 21 hours.

That's if you don't stop. Go to Google Maps, click on "directions," enter Terre Haute to Richmond, and click on the icon with the walking person. Add the amount of time you think they would reasonably take to sleep, eat, rest, etc. and you got it.

I love Google Maps.

night-flyer · Sep 15, 2010

DeleyanLee said:
How used to they to walking?

When I was that age, I was in reasonable shape and could walk about 3.5 miles an hour without breaking much of a sweat. I generally walked about 3 miles at a time to work and back, so I don't have experience walking for 4 hours straight. I did this without children, which would slow one down because carrying weight does that.

But also remember that you're having them walk through the hottest time of the day, which can also slow them down a bit more as well.

Hope that helps.

There are no running vehicles, so they walk alot, everywhere they go.
The 3.5 an hour was in the range of what I was thinking, but forgot to calculate the heat. Probably more frequent stops invoved, for water and rest?

I used to walk 3 miles home from school, I don't think it took an hour to do so, but that was a while back. How long did it take you to get to work?

This is hard to figure out.

Thank you, DeleyanLee for your help, need all the imput I can get on this!

night-flyer · Sep 15, 2010

Maryn said:
A healthy young adult can walk five miles on a paved, level surface in 80 to 90 minutes. The pace usually slackens after about three miles, although assuming they don't have issues like blisters or heavy loads to carry, they can probably continue at twenty-minute miles for some time. It's a pretty easy pace, three miles an hour.

The seven-year-old is going to be the deciding factor, and I have no idea what pace a child can hit and maintain, nor how long she could go on without rest, and how much it will slow the adult carrying her when she rests.

I'm nearing 60 and am substantially overweight, and I do five miles in 80 minutes when I'm really hauling ass. The farthest I've ever walked in a day was a little over nine miles (I lost my car keys when I drove to my favorite walking place) and I could have gone longer if I'd had a half hour's rest and some water.

If your characters are on roads, is there a reason they don't use bicycles? That would be the most efficient way to self-propel across Indiana.

If your characters are not on roads, they will go substantially slower, because uneven ground (fields, forests, farms) and rolling hills require it.

Maryn, veteran walker

They walk on some roads, but they are old and cracked, overgrown with weeds, mostly they are walking through the countryside. No bicycles around, if there are--no tires or air for them. In distant future.
Wow 5 miles in 80 min! You must walk alot.

LGwenn said:
I think that given all the variables, 3 mph is probably a reasonable average ( faster than that at first, but slowing down with time, much slower when carrying the child)

I was leaning towards 3 mph, maybe slower with child and heat?

Chris P said:
1 day, 21 hours.

That's if you don't stop. Go to Google Maps, click on "directions," enter Terre Haute to Richmond, and click on the icon with the walking person.

I love Google Maps.

Wow! 1 day, 21 hours! I would never had guessed, but they will have to stop here and there,and probably often. I have google maps on my fav bar. I didn't know it could give me walking distance from point A to B. Will go there and try that.

Thanks everyone for your help, maybe I can figure out a reasonable time for this mode of travel. Just don't want to be way off on this!

Thanks again!!

Pomegranate · Sep 15, 2010

Assuming they walk 8 hours a day at a pace of 3 miles per hour, they would average 24 miles per day. A pace of 20-25 miles per day would cover 140 miles (assuming they are on flat, easy to walk surface the whole way) in 5-7 days.

7-year-olds have shorter legs than adults, which would slow the pace a bit, so I'd call it 8 days.

Rowan · Sep 15, 2010

Chris P said:
1 day, 21 hours.

That's if you don't stop. Go to Google Maps, click on "directions," enter Terre Haute to Richmond, and click on the icon with the walking person. Add the amount of time you think they would reasonably take to sleep, eat, rest, etc. and you got it.

I love Google Maps.

Cool feature--never saw the walking person icon thing! Or even the bicycle...

THANKS!

jclarkdawe · Sep 15, 2010

Your times for walking are unusual, to say the least. Noon to four is the warmest part of the day, whether you're talking summer or winter. Summer is obvious, but in winter, you'd be packing extra clothes for the colder part of the day. That means you'd have to wear (easiest) or carry (not easy) the clothes you need in the morning.

Further, in winter, you tend to want to get up and get going to warm up. In summer, you want to get going so you can stop around noon and take a nap during the hot part of the day.

Other than a few days of the year, you don't want to go to eight in the evening. You need time at the end of the day to set up camp, and darkness is a sucky time to be hiking. Increases the chances of injury.

Are they carrying supplies? Remember the longer you are on the road, the more supplies you need. But that's also going to limit the ability to carry the youngster.

Weather is a big factor in walking. Rain and mud can really slow you down. Flooded rivers are a problem. Anywhere from five days to two weeks would be reasonable, but remember that back in the good old days, sometimes you didn't move for a few weeks. And wagon trains might only make a mile a day for a few weeks because of the weather.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

night-flyer · Sep 15, 2010

jclarkdawe said:
Your times for walking are unusual, to say the least. Noon to four is the warmest part of the day, whether you're talking summer or winter. Summer is obvious, but in winter, you'd be packing extra clothes for the colder part of the day. That means you'd have to wear (easiest) or carry (not easy) the clothes you need in the morning.

Further, in winter, you tend to want to get up and get going to warm up. In summer, you want to get going so you can stop around noon and take a nap during the hot part of the day.

Other than a few days of the year, you don't want to go to eight in the evening. You need time at the end of the day to set up camp, and darkness is a sucky time to be hiking. Increases the chances of injury.

Are they carrying supplies? Remember the longer you are on the road, the more supplies you need. But that's also going to limit the ability to carry the youngster.

Weather is a big factor in walking. Rain and mud can really slow you down. Flooded rivers are a problem. Anywhere from five days to two weeks would be reasonable, but remember that back in the good old days, sometimes you didn't move for a few weeks. And wagon trains might only make a mile a day for a few weeks because of the weather.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

I totally agree that that is the worst time to travel, especially on foot. However, for reasons in the novel--it's a must. Too, long to explain.

This is during the summer, so they would have to stop often for water and rest. I really didn't see the need to include the weather aspect of it, since them passing through Indiana is only a mention, not in detail.
I just need to know how long it took to pick up after that.

They have backpacks and a cart that they have to haul around. Which will definitely slow them up alot.

I had them stop at 8:00 because it's summer and here in the summer it doesn't start getting dark until around 9:00. I thought that would be enough time to find haven for the night, unless it gets darker earlier in Indiana. Maybe I should have them stop at 7:30, they must find shelter before dark.

I was thinking on the lines of a week and a half. Maybe two, considering the heat, and rough terrain, possible weather problems, and hauling a cart along. Does this sound reasonable?

Thank you for your help, Thanx for taking the time to read this.

night-flyer · Sep 15, 2010

Pomegranate said:
Assuming they walk 8 hours a day at a pace of 3 miles per hour, they would average 24 miles per day. A pace of 20-25 miles per day would cover 140 miles (assuming they are on flat, easy to walk surface the whole way) in 5-7 days.

7-year-olds have shorter legs than adults, which would slow the pace a bit, so I'd call it 8 days.

Thank you for the reply, Pomegranate.

I will see your 8 and raise it 4 .
Taking in consideration of your calculations, and add in heat, terrain, and hauling a stupid cart around. (Yes, I put the cart in there, but it was a necessary evil. ) I think maybe twelve days to two weeks would be believable.

Thanx, you did the hard part. I'm no good at distance or how long it would take to walk somewhere.

veinglory · Sep 15, 2010

And you should add some time for normal obstacles and geography, even assuming the never get lost or off course.

night-flyer · Sep 15, 2010

Do you think two weeks will cover it?

I'm about to go to google maps and put in what ChrisP suggested, to see if I'm not too far off base.

Since there are so many variables as to why they may get across Indiana in 5 days or two weeks. I don't see how what I put down could be wrong, unless it's just way off base.

It is just a mention of the fact and not a detailed part in the book. But I do want the part to be believable.

Thanks Veinglory--I will keep those in mind as well. Though finding it a little hard to figure out just how to calculate such things--an extra hour, day, another week?

jclarkdawe · Sep 15, 2010

night-flyer said:
They have backpacks and a cart that they have to haul around. Which will definitely slow them up alot. Yeah, a cart will slow them down. They'd put the backpacks in the cart rather than on their backs. The cart increases their ability to carry weight, but at a lot of cost. They need much better trails, and any sort of mud becomes a pain in the butt. The mud grabs the wheels, and holds them. Mud would stop a wagon train in its tracks. And remember that you'll break a wheel or axle. Further adding to the time.

I had them stop at 8:00 because it's summer and here in the summer it doesn't start getting dark until around 9:00. I thought that would be enough time to find haven for the night, unless it gets darker earlier in Indiana. Maybe I should have them stop at 7:30, they must find shelter before dark. I would think 7:30 more reasonable. Indiana is funky on time because of daylight savings time issues. But 9 PM is only likely for about a month around the first day of summer (21 June approximately). Remember that you stop early if you've got a good campsite, unless you know what's ahead on the trail. That's why you don't push too late into the night.

I was thinking on the lines of a week and a half. Maybe two, considering the heat, and rough terrain, possible weather problems, and hauling a cart along. Does this sound reasonable? With a cart, I'd expect more along the lines of two to three weeks. Travel time on wagon trains was about 2 - 3 miles an hour, with an average of between ten to fifteen miles per day. Usually Sunday was not used for travel. And most of the travel time was based around a twelve hour day. At ten miles a day, you're looking at 15 - 16 days (140 miles is how the crow flies, for example, the Indiana Toll Road is 157 miles, border to border).

Thank you for your help, Thanx for taking the time to read this.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

night-flyer · Sep 15, 2010

Chris P said:
1 day, 21 hours.

That's if you don't stop. Go to Google Maps, click on "directions," enter Terre Haute to Richmond, and click on the icon with the walking person. Add the amount of time you think they would reasonably take to sleep, eat, rest, etc. and you got it.

I love Google Maps.

Hey! I just went to google maps, and found what you were talking about. I've looked over that map a hundred times and never noticed it before. lol
Thanks, this is a good thing to know. Very Cool.
Thanx!!

jclarkdawe said:
Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

Geez, I didn't think it would take three weeks, but you make some good points here. I think maybe two and a half will do. I definitely don't want it to take a month for them to get across it. If I'm just mentioning their crossing it--who's to say how much it rained, or how often the cart got stuck, or if someone sprung an ankle? But if you are thinking about those things, then maybe the reader will also, and if I put 'after four days of travel, they ended up in Ohio'. Someone may say that that is BS. There's no way!!

Thanks for all the info, you certainly seem well informed on this matter.
I think considering all, two and a half weeks is a believable time.

Unless someone else disagrees, well then it's back to the drawing board. :Shrug:

Thank you, again.

Nivarion · Sep 16, 2010

night-flyer said:
I'm horrible at distances, and I don't walk anywhere! Can someone help me judge how long it would take to cross Indiana?
I know there are too many variables to get it exact. But a believable, guess would do.

Three people are traveling on foot across Indiana, how long would it take them if they entered from Illinois and exited into Ohio. Crossing the middle of Indiana.

I have googled Indiana and found out that it is 140 miles wide.

I get the feeling that they're not wanting to be found, or that this is a post apocalyptic world. Whether it is or not, I'm gonna assume they have no access to a store.

When I used to back pack frequently I could cover 20 miles in a moderate roughness terrain in a day with a weeks worth of food in the pack. So I'd guess seven days for a fit person. I never went over anything flat like a grassland, or gentle so I can't give a good idea there. (and boy would 20 miles exhaust me.)

However the kid is going to be an issue. Without carrying I would hazard a guess of 10 to 15 miles a day if they were healthy. which puts them at 14 to 10 days.

Which brings in another issue. Food is heavy. Carrying a weeks worth of food is hard going. Really hard. I don't think it would be reasonable for the people in your party to be able to carry two weeks worth of food. So they'll have to buy, barter, steal or find more of it. And that could take up a lot of time too. And they also have the issue of water.

I've never been to Indiana so I don't know how easy it is to find. Trying to find water can take several hours out of each day. You go through a lot of it when walking hard to get some where.

Do the characters have access to anything like a bicycle wagon, or any other wagon with large wheels, because that could allow them to increase the amounts of food and water they can carry, and they can put the girl inside to increase their distance.

I'd take a guess that on a good paved road a fit person could walk 30 miles before they had to stop.

RJK · Sep 16, 2010

Go to Google Maps. enter a location on one border and another locatioin on the other border and ask for directions. Click the "Walking" button. It will show you the route, the total time and the intermediate stops.

I just tried it and it calculated 2 days 1 hour of constant walking. So add in your rest periods and that will give you your answer.

Maryn · Sep 16, 2010

That cart is going to cut their time by at least one-third and necessitate more and longer rest periods.

Seriously, clock yourself walking to the corner and back at a reasonable pace, neither brisk nor a stroll, the way you'd walk to reach a destination. Now do it with a wheelbarrow. Do it twice more with the wheelbarrow and see how much you slow down, how your hands are being rubbed, how your lower back reacts. It's also really tough going to move a wheeled anything on uneven ground like derelict pavement or empty farmers' fields.

Maryn, also a veteran of Radio Flyers loaded with kids

Bufty · Sep 16, 2010

Hope the path between the trees - if there are any - is wider than the cart.

The revealed time for the trip - if it is revealed - will only be queried if it seems too fast for the given conditions.

Kenra Daniels · Sep 16, 2010

When my daughter was seven, we walked to school/work everyday, 2 miles, on sidewalks. At her pace it took almost an hour. The time was shorter in the mornings when she was fresh and rested, longer, sometimes more than an hour in the evening when she was tired.
Good luck
DL

Nivarion · Sep 16, 2010

Maryn said:
That cart is going to cut their time by at least one-third and necessitate more and longer rest periods.

Seriously, clock yourself walking to the corner and back at a reasonable pace, neither brisk nor a stroll, the way you'd walk to reach a destination. Now do it with a wheelbarrow. Do it twice more with the wheelbarrow and see how much you slow down, how your hands are being rubbed, how your lower back reacts. It's also really tough going to move a wheeled anything on uneven ground like derelict pavement or empty farmers' fields.

Maryn, also a veteran of Radio Flyers loaded with kids

I've done some long distance hikes with a hand cart. If you've got good wheels you can make it over rough ground without too much trouble.

If you've got bad wheels, you'll be fixing them every other mile. The ones we were using were like this, but with really poor wheels that kept breaking and coming off.

It was probably because we made the wheels out of ply wood. If you had bicycle wheels and a steel frame instead of wood you could cover some decent ground.

Trying to move stuff in a radio flyer doesn't work to well. I've moved lots of kids on those too. Wheels are too small.

Maryn · Sep 16, 2010

That's a pretty nice cart. I wonder if the OP's characters have the materials and know-how to make it, because it would sure make their trek easier, having something designed to be hand-drawn and with large, sturdy wheels.

(I agree, wagons stink for going very far, except on smooth pavement. Luckily, my kids drive themselves now.)

Maryn, thinking about rickshaws

night-flyer · Sep 16, 2010

RJK--Chris P has already beat you to this suggestion, however the given time is unrealistic even if I add their rest stops. Mainly because it doesn't calculate for rough terrain, a child, hauling a cart, heat etc. My problem is judging how much these things will slow them down.

Maryn--I don't think the cart will be as difficult to handle as a wheelbarrel, but I understand what you're saying. It will definitely be a strain on them to haul it, but they take turns--so that helps a little. Will still slow them down alot.

Bufty--I didn't go into detail on this part of the book, so we'll just say that they went through areas wide enough for the cart to fit.lol
I agree-I don't think any one will question it as long as it sounds reasonable.

Dragon Lady--That gives me an idea of how far the girl can travel before she needs to be carried or needs to rest. Very helpful!

Nivarion--Yes, this is happening after the destruction of civilization, though not by war. There are stores, but they are empty shells- so no help to them. They hunt and/or find food along the way (some farmhouses still contain some can food, but it's a rare find)
Food is not weighing them down, but they are hauling a five or maybe three(haven't decided yet) gallon water jug in the wagon and they have canteens. Water won't be a problem until they reach Ohio.

They are using a wooden cart held together with metal stripping with four wheels and a handle. Solid wheels, no air. The cart you showed looks rather bulky. I myself, have had no experience in pulling any cart for a
long period of time, or over rough terrain.

Do you think the one you showed will be easier? I don't know about the metal and bicycle wheels--wouldn't they get flats?

Thanks everyone, for your help and advice. You are awesome as always!

Does everyone think that a two weeks is reasonable? Or two and a half?

If I make it any less, I'm afraid I might leave it questionable.

Nivarion · Sep 17, 2010

night-flyer said:
Nivarion--Yes, this is happening after the destruction of civilization, though not by war. There are stores, but they are empty shells- so no help to them. They hunt and/or find food along the way (some farmhouses still contain some can food, but it's a rare find)
Food is not weighing them down, but they are hauling a five or maybe three(haven't decided yet) gallon water jug in the wagon and they have canteens. Water won't be a problem until they reach Ohio.

They are using a wooden cart held together with metal stripping with four wheels and a handle. Solid wheels, no air. The cart you showed looks rather bulky. I myself, have had no experience in pulling any cart for a
long period of time, or over rough terrain.

Do you think the one you showed will be easier? I don't know about the metal and bicycle wheels--wouldn't they get flats?

Thanks everyone, for your help and advice. You are awesome as always!

Does everyone think that a two weeks is reasonable? Or two and a half?

If I make it any less, I'm afraid I might leave it questionable.

Hand carts like the one in that picture (which was made by someone who was well studied in them, by the way.) Were designed to be drawn by hand. They were very popular with Mormon pilgrims crossing from the Mississippi to Utah, because they were cheap to make and easy to move.

Steel fastening strip and door hinges makes for a wonderful cheat for those of us who aren't so skilled in wood working.

Bicycle wheels depends on what kind of supplies they have on hand. If they have decent treads and tubes, then they would be by far better than a wooden wheel. Plus the addition of ball bearings inside the hub makes them easier to turn, so the cart is easier to pull.

The bicycle I'm riding right now has some Slime inner tubes and Slime tube protectors inside each wheel. The protector is near impossible to puncture and the slime tube fills in the few that happen. I've gone over glass, nails, tacks and flint with my Mt. Bike, and haven't had to fix a single flat since I put them in. (months.)

If your characters can get those products or anything like them then I would recommend the bike tires. They'll be less hassle than even the best made wood tires.

However, if they're using stock walmart wheels then I'd go with the wood ones. Before i switched from regular inner tubes I was having to replace or fix a flat at least once a ride. I actually got my first slime product because i had a nozzle tear out next to a bike store. They only sold slime tubes.

they are well worth the extra $7.

Most car parts stores and bike shops will have slime products and kits. They're really awesome at what they do, and easy to use. And I actually doubt they'd be the kind of things people would raid in an apocalypse.

As for wheel type, I'd try to get mountain bike wheels. They have about a 3 to 5sq inch contact area, and are around 50 psi so each wheel can hold 150 to 250 lbs.

How Long Would It take...Distances/Walking

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