Can you live -- survive -- without antibiotics?

Plot Device · Aug 27, 2010

I know I can't. I was born with weak lungs very prone to infection, and spent time in an incubator after being born. Had I been born in the 1860's rather than the 1960's, I would have died at birth. And scores of asthma attacks throughout childhood with more than a few trips to the ER all convince me that I should have died a dozen times over. So many damed pills. So many rounds of antibiotics.

So if I am right now very reckless with my health, and if right now antibiotics are not available to me, I will die in less than a year from a respratory infection. And if I am very careful it will only take 3 years 'til I meet the bug with my name on it. Either way, I will die sooner than I should have if antibiotics were to simply disappear.

Sooner than I should have??

Meh ... I shoulda' died at birth. (Darwin gets ya' every time.)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/aug/12/the-end-of-antibiotics-health-infections

Are you ready for a world without antibiotics?

Antibiotics are a bedrock of modern medicine. But in the very near future, we're going to have to learn to live without them once again. And it's going to get nasty.

Sarah Boseley
The Guardian, Thursday 12 August 2010

[snip]

The era of antibiotics is coming to a close. In just a couple of generations, what once appeared to be miracle medicines have been beaten into ineffectiveness by the bacteria they were designed to knock out. Once, scientists hailed the end of infectious diseases. Now, the post-antibiotic apocalypse is within sight.

Hyperbole? Unfortunately not. The highly serious journal Lancet Infectious Diseases yesterday posed the question itself over a paper revealing the rapid spread of multi-drug-resistant bacteria. "Is this the end of antibiotics?" it asked.

Doctors and scientists have not been complacent, but the paper by Professor Tim Walsh and colleagues takes the anxiety to a new level. Last September, Walsh published details of a gene he had discovered, called NDM 1, which passes easily between types of bacteria called enterobacteriaceae such as E. coli and Klebsiella pneumoniae and makes them resistant to almost all of the powerful, last-line group of antibiotics called carbapenems. Yesterday's paper revealed that NDM 1 is widespread in India and has arrived here as a result of global travel and medical tourism for, among other things, transplants, pregnancy care and cosmetic surgery.

"In many ways, this is it," Walsh tells me. "This is potentially the end. There are no antibiotics in the pipeline that have activity against NDM 1-producing enterobacteriaceae. We have a bleak window of maybe 10 years, where we are going to have to use the antibiotics we have very wisely, but also grapple with the reality that we have nothing to treat these infections with."

And this is the optimistic view – based on the assumption that drug companies can and will get moving on discovering new antibiotics to throw at the bacterial enemy....

[snip]

Bird of Prey · Aug 27, 2010

I posted something on this not too long ago, PD, particularly about people who go to places like India for cosmetic surgery and return to Europe with these superbugs.

The easiest remedy for you is to take good care of yourself, special care of your lungs, and reduce stress to reduce the impact on your body. It'll pay off if you do. . . .

shadowwalker · Aug 27, 2010

We're killing ourselves with antibiotics. Why do you think the most dangerous place for infections is a hospital? Because it's been sanitized to the point that only the most potent germs have survived. And now we're pushing that same thing into our homes with powerful "germ killing" cleaners and disinfectants.

icerose · Aug 27, 2010

This is partially why I so desperately want to become a certified master herbalist. Many infections can be treated naturally through medicinal herbs such as euchinacea, goldenseal, yarrow, peppermint, garlic and more. It's easy to forget with all the sterile bottles of synthetic pills and plastic gloves that a good chunk of modern medicine was built on natural properties. These also don't destroy all your good bacteria and weaken your whole system, rather they build you up and inhibit the infections from growing all the while priming your immune system, releasing the attack dogs, and getting it back out.

Alpha Echo · Aug 27, 2010

shadowwalker said:
We're killing ourselves with antibiotics. Why do you think the most dangerous place for infections is a hospital? Because it's been sanitized to the point that only the most potent germs have survived. And now we're pushing that same thing into our homes with powerful "germ killing" cleaners and disinfectants.

My mom told me this years ago when the anti-bacterial soap was just gaining popularity. She told me it's bad to kill all bacteria.

This is scary.

I am not going to think about it.

(except I know I torture myself reading these threads anyway)

Diana Hignutt · Aug 27, 2010

Yeah, I'd have died as a child, as a young adult, and if I somehow survived chronic bronchitis, I would have died in 1997 from diverticulitis...twice, without antibiotics.

Now, all you anti-Diana people know to blame that bastard who invented antibiotics for my continued survival. If I were you, I'd go back in time and kill that S.O.B.

Alpha Echo · Aug 27, 2010

icerose said:
This is partially why I so desperately want to become a certified master herbalist.

How do you get to become a certified master herbalist?

icerose · Aug 27, 2010

Alpha Echo said:
How do you get to become a certified master herbalist?

You go to a school that offers it. It's really quite neat. You learn about botany and horticulture and herbology and how to make tinctures and remedies and lotions and soaps and so on all naturally. When you become fully certified you can actually open a practice and have patients. It's a variation on medical school. More and more doctors are actually getting their master herbalist certification after they've been general practitioners for a while. They get sick of masking the symptoms.

Alpha Echo · Aug 27, 2010

Alpha Echo said:
How do you get to become a certified master herbalist?

Oh man, that question is structured embarrassingly horrible for a writer.

But that does sound interesting, Icerose. I'd at the very least like to do some more research on the topic.

dgrintalis · Aug 27, 2010

I will tell you a story. My son, who is 19, has never been on antibiotics in his life. My daughter, who is 21, has been on them once, for an ear infection, when she was 2. My kids are rarely sick and when they are, it goes away very quickly.

A friend's daughter was sick all the time when she was young and every time, the doctor prescribed antibiotics. Now, I don't know if she needed them or not, but she was constantly on them. And constantly ill.

And me? I've been on them a few times in my life. Once for walking pneumonia, about 11 years ago, and then again for a UTI. I had a horrible chest cold earlier this year and did not take antibiotics. It went away on its own.

I've never been a fan of antibiotics as I think they weaken our own immune system. And antibacterial soap? Nope, I've always used non-antibacterial soap.

Plot Device and Diana, I am glad that they were available to you both. When I was 3, I had major surgery. I would assume I was given antibiotics then, to prevent infection, and for that, I'm glad they were available. I don't believe they are inherently evil, but I think they are overprescribed and that is where the problem stems from. Just my opinion, of course.

billythrilly7th · Aug 27, 2010

Worry not.

They will figure something else out.

Our best people are on it.

You heard it here first.

icerose · Aug 27, 2010

dgrintalis said:
Plot Device and Diana, I am glad that they were available to you both. When I was 3, I had major surgery. I would assume I was given antibiotics then, to prevent infection, and for that, I'm glad they were available. I don't believe they are inherently evil, but I think they are overprescribed and that is where the problem stems from. Just my opinion, of course.

It's been proven. They used to perscribe them for everything including viral problems which anti-biotics could do nothing for.

But by the time they realized their fallacy, it was too late. They've burned the antibiotic bridges so to speak.

I get infections horendously often and it takes two rounds to take care of the bugs due to my own autoimmune problems. I am working on doing everything I can naturally to fix my body and rebalance it as well as naturally protect my system. Including preventing colds and other nasties from ever getting a grip on my system in the first place.

LOG · Aug 27, 2010

Your body possesses the most lethal defense against pathogens (when it comes to organic defenses anyway).

We just need to engineer nanomachines that will destroy designated pathogens when injected. Mechanical-vaccines if you will.

icerose · Aug 27, 2010

Here's a little bit about it via universities. http://education-portal.com/master_herbalist.html

Cricket18 · Aug 27, 2010

I agree they can be invaluable, but they're also way over-prescribed.

And let's not forget that meat / dairy both have tons of anti-biotics in them as well.

Smish · Aug 27, 2010

I've been taking antibiotics since Monday, and still feel like crap. So, I can believe it.

R.M. Watts · Aug 27, 2010

Cricket18 said:
And let's not forget that meat / dairy both have tons of anti-biotics in them as well.

Particularly chicken. Or that's the one I'm always hearing about. Mentally ranting about how we're ruining our livestock (cows stomachs were made for digesting grass, hence the term, "grazing animal") and poultry now.

Now back to the topic at hand! I could probably live without antibiotics. I rarely ever use antibiotics and my mother only put me on them if it was something pretty bad (I had scarlatina as a kid). Other than that, I used antibiotics once or twice after that over some silly nothings I could have beaten back on my own.

Yes, antibiotics are amazing. No, doctor's shouldn't be prescribing them like crazy. My mother's been complaining about super germs for a while, but she does work for a doc. It doesn't really surprise me. Hopefully we'll learn from our mistakes.

Zoombie · Aug 27, 2010

Okay, fifth times the charm

While the evolution of bacteria causes a serious concern when it comes to the effective tactics of medicine, you can not ignore the fact that we have a multi-billion dollar industry working around the clock to not only find better and different antibiotics, but to also find things that work better than regular antibiotics.

rhymegirl · Aug 27, 2010

This is scary to me.

I've had pneumonia twice and had to take antibiotics to get well.

POPASMOKE · Aug 27, 2010

Zoombie said:
...While the evolution of bacteria causes a serious concern when it comes to the effective tactics of medicine, you can not ignore the fact that we have a multi-billion dollar industry working around the clock to not only find better and different antibiotics, but to also find things that work better than regular antibiotics.

While I agree with your pov, one of the glaring problems in developing new antibiotics is the continuing destruction of this planet's rain forests.

40% of our pharmaceuticals have been developed from nature (plants and organics). Rain forests once covered 15% of the planet, and now by some estimates, they're down to less than 6%. When they're gone, things will get really bad I'm afraid.

http://pharmacology.suite101.com/article.cfm/the-loss-of-cancer-drugs-in-rainforests

http://profwork.org/bate/reports/rf_pharm.html

clintl · Aug 27, 2010

If there's any consolation, it's that very little that we predict actually comes true. Especially when timelines are attached to the predictions.

Zoombie · Aug 27, 2010

Which is why the conservation of our ecosystem is important.

Cricket18 · Aug 27, 2010

Around seven years ago I got Strep Throat. After just the first dose, I felt "cured." No more pain, no more temp.

Both my sister and my ex-boss had to take two full rounds of antibiotics before theirs went away. Now mind you, it probably was just coincidence.

But...it did cross my mind that since I don't eat meat, and they do, perhaps I don't have the same kind of intolerance to antibiotics, and therefore, they worked better for me.

Xelebes · Aug 28, 2010

So far, I've made it fine. I only took antibiotics when I couldn't close my jaw. (I'm still waiting for the call from the oral surgeon when I can get the wisdom teeth removed. :rant:

)

Zoombie · Aug 28, 2010

Have fun with that, Xel. Wisdom teeth are two bitches and one half asshole.

Can you live -- survive -- without antibiotics?

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