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View Full Version : A homegrown "foreign" language - American Sign Language



Chase
08-26-2010, 09:40 AM
Can you converse in American Sign Language (ASL)? Or are you more comfortable with Signed Exact English (SEE)? Some actually get by with finger-spelling.

If you can sign, are you a deafie? How about profoundly hard-of-hearing? Perhaps youíre a hearie with deaf relatives or friends, in which case youíre a cross between an advocate and an angel.

Or maybe ASL is your profession--that of interpreter.

Whatever (palms toward the midriff, the tips of both five-hands brushing each other back and forth), tell why you sign, are learning to sign, or use some element of signing.

My nameís Chase (one thumb-up "ten" sign fleeing while the other thumb-up "ten" sign quickly pursues).

My sister, four years older, was born deaf, so I learned ASL at the same time I learned spoken English. I was progressively more hard-of-hearing for over two decades, then totally deaf for the last ten years. For me, ASL has been a terrific alternate communication to speech-reading (formerly lip-reading, but so much more).

Whatís your sign?

mccardey
08-26-2010, 09:49 AM
Oh I wish I could contribute to this!! When my boy spent a long time in hospital I learnt some rudimentary words in Auslan (Australian Sign) so I could say hello to his four-year-old ward-mate. But I've forgotten most of it, now - that was so long ago!

I read a few books at the time, though, about sign languages and the deaf communities - fascinating stuff! I especially remember Oliver Sacks' "Seeing Voices"...

I remember hello ( open right hand, palm forward, moved in an arc to the right) and ice-cream ( right hand fist, moved down from the chin twice). Important words for a small boy in hospital ;)

Oh - and drink was miming a glass-to-the-mouth with a kind of questioning thing; hungry was a thumb to the right side of the neck with two forward strokes; sleep was closing extended right index finger down to the thumb at the right eye; and sad (this is sad) was moving the index finger down the chin.

But sad could be fixed with a bit of tickling and a few jelly snakes :)

That's all I remember.

Can I just say though that Auslan was a particularly beautiful language. I mean - all languages are beautiful in a particular way; but this was really particularly beautiful...

mccardey
08-26-2010, 10:03 AM
Because I knew in advance one was going to arrive and Kristopher would want to see it - make the blades with the right hand in top of the left hand index finger. And then rock the right hand, moving both hands up at the same time.

That's all I've got. Nice thread, though... I've seen people from the local deaf community chatting and honestly, it's like hearing French in France. *sigh* I wish I was multi-lingual!!

Xelebes
08-26-2010, 11:45 AM
I'm more of a fan of Makaton as it is easier for me as someone with an ASD. I know quite a few autistics who use ASL, but I find it harder to read.

My sister took up ASL in high school - not for any need - and there was only a few things I could pick up. I don't use any sign language right now, but I've been exploring different sign languages for the instances I go mute.

SaraP
08-26-2010, 11:58 AM
I don't speak any sign languages, but I do work with baby signing.

I find it amazing that each country has developed its own sign language. I also like it that PSL is one of this country's official languages. I like the look on people's faces when I tell them that.

Chase
08-26-2010, 08:47 PM
Wow! So many responses and mostly about sign languages other than American Sign Language.

Makaton, for instance, is a relatively recent program used predominantly in the UK for people with speech difficulties, rather than inabilities to hear. It's based on British Sign Language (BLS).

As Sara wrote, each country has developed its own sign language. Unfortunately, that's even true for English-speaking countries.

Gestuno is the international sign language (as Esperanto is the international spoken language). The problem with both is that there are few practitioners of either.

Liosse de Velishaf
08-26-2010, 09:00 PM
It's not so much each country as each community. True sign languages develop independently of the nearby spoken languages, mostly due to the fact that they make use of entirely different articulatory components.

Anyway, I used to know a bit of ASL, but it has died from lack of use. Which is too bad, because the structure of sign languages is very interesting.

It was my understanding that Makaton is now independent from any national sign language, but rather incorporates whichever sign language is familiar in the specific area of use. (Of course, it did originate in Britain.)

Chase
08-26-2010, 09:32 PM
Because I knew in advance one was going to arrive and Kristopher would want to see it - make the blades with the right hand in top of the left hand index finger. And then rock the right hand, moving both hands up at the same time.

McCardey,

Your Auslan sign for helicopter is the same as our ASL sign.

Some of the other signs you mentioned are close, but that can often be misleading. For instance, ASL for "hello" is somewhat like the British military salute, open hand forward, forefinger to the brow then out a few inches.

One member sent a private message asking about signing names. That’s complicated:

1. Most names, like Sylvia and David must be finger-spelled at first.

2. My name happens to be a verb with a ready-made sign. To my great relief, my sister changed the baby name she originally gave me* to the sign for "chase," two fists with thumbs up, one chasing the other.

Likewise, I have a friend named Holly, for which the sign is the forefinger and thumb of one hand drawing the shape of a holly leaf in the air.

3. *For those who sign ASL, an old custom is that whether you’re deaf or hearing, your sign name must be given by someone who’s deaf.

3A. The top half of the signer’s face is masculine, so male names signed near the face should be at nose level or above. The bottom of the face is of course the feminine half, and the same condition applies. Thus, my sister named our brother Bert with a B-hand forming a wave in one’s hair from the forehead. She named my girlfriend, Kay, with a K-hand touching one’s cheek in the manner that we sign "sweet."

As I wrote above, signs are complicated. Even here in the US, many signs differ from area to area, just as dialects and colloquialisms differ, as Liosse de Velishaf wrote.

For instance, one person sent me a thumbs-up in PM. I know most folks think that sign means "good" or "okay," and I take it as such.

However, to a navy aviator, the thumb up from a fist means "Ready." That’s especially important on the deck of a carrier.

In ASL, that sign by itself means the number ten. Ha ha ha, lots of confusion all around.

maxmordon
08-26-2010, 10:02 PM
What deeply fascinates me is the whole history that lies behind sign language, especially some monastic ones that still go on today!

Here's a bit for anyone interested on it:

http://www.thebluefool.com/society/artsci/MSL_Report.pdf

Chase
08-26-2010, 10:59 PM
Max,

Thanks for the interesting piece on eleventh century monastic sign. What Stork calls "mimetic" action, ASL teachers (which I hasten to stress I'm not) call those "natural" signs.

Still, what's natural to one isn't to another. The Benedictine sign for milk is to mimic milking a forefinger. In ASL, we use both hands as a dairy farmer of old milking a cow.

However, the Benedictine sign for fish is almost exactly the ASL counterpart.

As you wrote, it deeply fascinates.

Chase
08-27-2010, 07:26 PM
By some estimates, American Sign Language is the third in languages practiced in North America. English is spoken by most on the continent, Spanish is the next, and surprisingly ASL is known by enough North Americans to rank third, somewhat ahead of French.

So to keep this thread alive, Iím going to bump it up weekly with a deaf joke, idiom, or trivia.

Feel free to add your own experience with Ameslan or a related varition.

Popular deafie joke:

A young, handsome deafie--too poor to afford an expensive cochlear implant so that he could hear--was in a quandary: A very elderly, very homely, very rich woman offered to finance the operation so that he could hear.

It was a case of wife or deaf.

SaraP
08-27-2010, 07:45 PM
Erm ... Vewy funny.

:D

Greenify13
08-27-2010, 07:57 PM
Oh interesting. I started a little while back looking into ASL, I had done some of this when I was very young, my youngest brother has epilepsy and was delayed in speech. Now that my oldest son, Isaac is delayed in speech because he can not hear properly we have tried using some key signs to help us better understand him. He'll now sign "eat" if he's hungry or thirsty (he hasn't grasped "cup" or "drink") he'll do "more" as well. And his own special sign for when he wants something, which is curious because it's the same way my brother had done it as well! He's also done the sign for "father" and "baby" but these are rare.
I wish I knew more, or could get us into some kind of class, even having the sign of "eat" has been extremely helpful in my life and understanding of the toddler.

Chase
08-27-2010, 10:30 PM
I wish I knew more, or could get us into some kind of class, even having the sign of "eat" has been extremely helpful in my life and understanding of the toddler.

Greenify,

You may find these sources handy for acquiring useful signs:

In the order listed, these online ASL dictionaries have been very helpful in showing ASL words and phrases in video action:

http://www.aslpro.com/cgi-bin/aslpro/aslpro.cgi (http://www.aslpro.com/cgi-bin/aslpro/aslpro.cgi)

http://www.lifeprint.com/ (http://www.lifeprint.com/)

http://commtechlab.msu.edu/Sites/aslweb/browser.htm (http://commtechlab.msu.edu/Sites/aslweb/browser.htm)

Iím sure there are baby sign books available, but these two books are great adult illustrated ASL dictionaries:

Martin Sternbergís American Sign Language Dictionary.

Gustason and Zawolkowís Signing Exact English.

Greenify13
08-27-2010, 10:35 PM
Greenify,

You may find these sources handy for acquiring useful signs:

In the order listed, these online ASL dictionaries have been very helpful in showing ASL words and phrases in video action:

http://www.aslpro.com/cgi-bin/aslpro/aslpro.cgi (http://www.aslpro.com/cgi-bin/aslpro/aslpro.cgi)

http://www.lifeprint.com/ (http://www.lifeprint.com/)

http://commtechlab.msu.edu/Sites/aslweb/browser.htm (http://commtechlab.msu.edu/Sites/aslweb/browser.htm)

Iím sure there are baby sign books available, but these two books are great adult illustrated ASL dictionaries:

Martin Sternbergís American Sign Language Dictionary.

Gustason and Zawolkowís Signing Exact English.
Chase! You are a dear, and please feel free to call me Greeny, everyone does. Thank you, I will definitely look into them all! Today Isaac's been learning "bath", since it's one of his favorite things to do!

Chase
08-28-2010, 01:52 AM
Greeny,

Bath, bathe, wash, scrub in the shower is both closed hands scrubbing the chest with knuckles.

One of the signs for happy, glad, joy, merry, delight is almost the same, only both hands open, palms toward the heart (chest), going up and down.

Ha ha ha, for some reason, my girlfriend continually mixes them, so sometimes she excuses herself to go take a "happy"--or when we meet, she tells me she's so "bath" to see me.

I hope your little one enjoys signing.

_Sian_
08-28-2010, 04:40 AM
Does anyone know exactly how big the differences are between ASL and Auslan? I know that it was mentioned earlier that helicopter was the same, but hello was slightly different. Is it different like south african english is different from standard (I have trouble understanding it sometimes, anyway) or is it different only a little (like australian spoken different is slightly different from american english?)

Kitty Pryde
08-28-2010, 04:58 AM
I took a year of ASL in college from a wonderful instructor. I took it to be able to communicate with deaf and/or autistic and/or nonverbal kids at the special needs summer camp where I worked. They weren't fluent, tho, so it was hard to learn very much from them. But they were very happy when they had someone to understand them/explain what was going on. Mostly stuff like "Time for dinner, wash your hands please," or "Stop now! What's wrong with you?" but yeah. Learning it was a lot of fun.

mccardey
08-28-2010, 05:05 AM
Does anyone know exactly how big the differences are between ASL and Auslan? I know that it was mentioned earlier that helicopter was the same, but hello was slightly different. Is it different like south african english is different from standard (I have trouble understanding it sometimes, anyway) or is it different only a little (like australian spoken different is slightly different from american english?)


I remember being told that Auslan comes from a more English/Irish background and that ASL was more distinctly "American". I don't know how profound the differences are though. I do know that - in Australia - because of distances and our migration patterns the dialects between states have quite marked differences.

When I was looking into it there were a few really quite fascinating books I read about the developments of signed languages. I'll have a look and see what they were, if you're interested? I might still have them here... Not instruction books, but historically- and linguistically-focused ones.

SaraP
08-28-2010, 05:31 AM
ASL comes from the french sign language, brought to the US by Gallaudet. It seems plausible to me that Auslan comes from British SL.

I know Portuguese SL has some roots in Swedish SL, but evolved mostly on its own.

Greenify13
08-28-2010, 05:33 AM
Thank you for clarifying the difference, this morning I had seen both, as a matter of fact. And I became confused because they looked so similar. Luckily we have been doing bathe with closed hands/fisted. *wipes sweat from brow* I should really look into classes more, and so forth, I want to volunteer at a school Isaac will most likely be going to when we move to NY. The school is for children with special needs and disabilities, I used to volunteer there long ago, and something like this may help not only at home but there as well...

Kitty Pryde
08-28-2010, 06:06 AM
My friend is a big fan of "Signing Time!" and "Baby Signing Time!" videos. It's a series of DVDs made by the mama of a deaf baby and a special needs baby, designed to teach sign words to typical kids, deaf kids, and kids with other disabilities (and babies too). Which is pretty cool.

Rachel Belrose
08-29-2010, 08:52 AM
Since I was around 12, I wanted to learn sign language. I remember watching Marlee Matlin in Their Eyes Were Watching God, and I thought the language was so amazing.

Fastforward to my first year of college, and I enrolled into some off campus sign classes. The following year, I took the offical ASLI and II classes. The next, I got accepted into the Interpreter Training Program.

It's been two years since I've graduated. I'm back in school for my education degree, but I miss my ASL classes. I literally feel my skills decreasing (not that I had much anyway ;)). All my friends who were in the program with me have moved away, so I don't see anyone to practice with. It's horribly frustrating.

WV doesn't accept ASL as a foreign language, which sucks because I eventually wanted to teach ASL as a foreign language.

One of the many reasons I want out of this place.

Fenika
08-30-2010, 06:46 AM
I picked up just a little ASL in college and was able to use it in lots of different places with different folks. Sadly I've not had the chance to learn or relearn the language.

Chase
09-01-2010, 12:34 AM
Thanks, all, for the interesting posts.

This week's totally lame corny ASL jokes:

How others communicate . . .

Mathematicians: Sine language.

Pigs: Swine language.

Biblical prophets: Heavenly sign language.

Astrologers: Star sign language.

Israelites: Zion language.

Annapolis cadets: Ensign language.

Porcupines: Spine language.

Lighthouse keepers: Shine language.

Realtors: Sign here and sign here and sign here and sign here language.

Everyone at midnight on December 31: Auld Lang Syne language.

At the Oktoberfest: Stein language.

Heirs to billions: Scion language.

Tech writers: Manually.

SaraP
09-01-2010, 03:04 AM
:ROFL:

Chase
09-09-2010, 02:09 AM
This week's bump-up deafie joke is an oldie about a guy who went out for a smoke and couldn't remember which motel cabin was where his wife was still asleep, so he went to his car and . . .

Pepsi made it into a cute 30-second commercial for the last Superbowl.

It's called "Bob's House." It's all in ASL, but there are subtitles for the sign language-impaired.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffrq6cUoE5A

Kitty Pryde
09-09-2010, 02:39 AM
ROFL! I remembered the punchline after they said they had to find Bob's house. I think I saw a CODA guy do this in an ASL stand-up comedy act (with a speech interpreter for the ASL-impaired, of course...).

I saw this commercial at the gym today, I thought it was cool. Hands Can Do Incredible Things (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFRidFroYT8).

SaraP
09-09-2010, 02:43 AM
This week's bump-up deafie joke is an oldie about a guy who went out for a smoke and couldn't remember which motel cabin was where his wife was still asleep, so he went to his car and . . .

Pepsi made it into a cute 30-second commercial for the last Superbowl.

It's called "Bob's House." It's all in ASL, but there are subtitles for the sign language-impaired.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffrq6cUoE5A

:roll:


ROFL! I remembered the punchline after they said they had to find Bob's house. I think I saw a CODA guy do this in an ASL stand-up comedy act (with a speech interpreter for the ASL-impaired, of course...).

I saw this commercial at the gym today, I thought it was cool. Hands Can Do Incredible Things (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFRidFroYT8).

Pretty cool indeed. :)

Chase
09-09-2010, 03:31 AM
Thanks, Sara. Kitty, your AHA CPR video is terrific. I carry a one-way face airway, so I still do breaths and compressions, but I'm sending this to all my friends.


CODA

For those unfamiliar: CODA = child(ren) of deaf adult(s)

Kitty Pryde
09-24-2010, 01:57 AM
More youtubiness: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuHbwPx4lWE ASL video for Michael Franti's new video "The Sound of Sunshine". I'm not certain of the utility of an ASL music video, but if nothing else there's a really pretty girl and it's an awesome song.

SaraP
09-24-2010, 01:08 PM
Absolutely LOVED it, Kitty!

(Even if I understood nothing of the ASL in it. ;) )

Chase
09-24-2010, 10:09 PM
ASL video for Michael Franti's new video "The Sound of Sunshine". I'm not certain of the utility of an ASL music video, but if nothing else there's a really pretty girl and it's an awesome song.

Yep, VERY pretty girl. She was signing? I must've missed it.

I watched the video several more times. Dang! I forgot to try to see if she was signing again.

Xelebes
09-25-2010, 01:20 AM
I remember seeing a video of an autistic comedian doing a song by Jewel in Makaton. A bit of quirky humour there.

Chase
09-27-2010, 08:02 AM
This week's bump-up stab at humor:

What do deafies term jerseys with athletes' names over their numbers?

Clothes captions, of course.

Chase
02-21-2011, 02:22 AM
Just when I thought it was safe to go to the grocery store.

Leaving Fred Meyers this morning, I was waylaid by miniature hooded thugs (thugettes?) all wearing pins showing cavorting Brownies or GS, which I gather stands for Gang Selling, because they demanded all my money and left me with boxes of Thin Mints.

No mercy was given even after I pleaded deaf. In fact after one little person signed "Thank you," I made the mistake of signing "Your welcome" and was held hostage until every word and phrase the pixies wanted to know had been demonstrated and practiced.

Be careful out there. They're hunting in packs.

SaraP
02-23-2011, 06:54 PM
:D

WildernessBound
03-07-2011, 07:18 PM
To randomly go back to the main topic, my little sister is still learning some baby sign language (she's almost five) and she gets really frustrated when people don't already know what she's saying.

When I was in kindergarten, my brothers and I decided to spend a term living with my dad. The nearest school to him was a school that mixed deaf and non-deaf together, so I learned the alphabet. That was about it.

Chase
03-07-2011, 08:43 PM
To randomly go back to the main topic, my little sister is still learning some baby sign language (she's almost five) and she gets really frustrated when people don't already know what she's saying.

Good for her. I hope she's learning for fun and not out of necessity. My older sis was born deaf, so I picked up ASL along with English.

I imagine it's even more frustrating for your sis with so many hearing people these days making up little hand signs having nothing to do with ASL. Ha ha ha, anyway, it's often frustrating for me.



The nearest school . . . mixed deaf and non-deaf together, so I learned the alphabet.

Learning to fingerspell is a great start on ASL. Most hand forms for letters and numbers are bases for words or phrases.

For instance, the crossed forefinger and middle finger R-hand begin ASL signs for "ready," restroom," "rectangle," "relative," and the verb "are" among others.

Even when I could hear, fingerspelling and ASL proved worthwhile in countless ways.

WildernessBound
03-07-2011, 11:35 PM
Oh, no, Chase, my little sister isn't learning out of necessity. My mother's homeschooling her and teaching her whatever she seems interested in. She hears just fine. I always wonder what it would be like to be colorblind or blind or deaf or to lack a sense of smell, etc. How interesting it would be and devastating it would seem...

*blush* The only other word I know is "beer" because my mom got me a book of phrases and I was young and stupid so I learned it. >.<'

How long have you been able to sign?

Chase
03-08-2011, 12:38 AM
The only other word I know is "beer" because my mom got me a book of phrases and I was young and stupid so I learned it.

Depending on where you are, "beer" is said with at least two signs:

One is the Y-hand tipped up like a stein (thumb to lips). I think it has to do with the yellowish color of some beer, but I'm not sure.

The other is the B-hand with the forefinger touching the cheek and drawn down a few inches. It's more subtle, but the sign is also close to "blonde."


How long have you been able to sign?

My older sister was born deaf, so the earliest "speech" I remember included ASL. More than 65 years. I was progressively hard-of-hearing for thirty years and have been deaf ten years. Ha ha ha, most people want to know swear words first.

Below are the letters fingerspelled in order (scroll down to the pretty redhead).

http://www.wikihow.com/Fingerspell-the-Alphabet-in-American-Sign-Language

DamaNegra
03-22-2011, 09:24 PM
Oooh, this thread made me remember a cool video where a guy performs Miley Cirus's Party in the USA using sign language. I thought it was incredibly cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmKnQjBf8wM

Chase
03-22-2011, 11:06 PM
"Party in the USA" using sign language. I thought it was incredibly cool.

Thanks for the sign song, Dama. Steveís exaggerated facial expressions and crisp signs and fingerspells show heís an ASL expert. Okay, the bright tie was an unusual distraction, but he needed red to complete the USA color theme.

You gotta love song performers for the deaf and hard-of-hearing for trying to include us deafies in musical events, but most performers arenít nearly as expert as Steve Torrence. Many leave out the gist of the lyrics to opt for more graceful hand forms and defeat the purpose of signing songs, ha ha ha
.
Steve is as accurate as he is entertaining.

Chase
06-10-2011, 12:28 AM
I bumped up this seldom-visited thread, because a de-rail of the "Accidental Fix" thread went on about speechreading by the deaf.

"Latest" old deaf joke:

Taxiing along the tarmac, the jetliner abruptly stopped, wheeled about, and returned to the gate. After a half-hour wait, it finally took off.

A concerned passenger asked the flight attendant, "What was the problem?"

"The pilot was bothered by strange noises he heard in the engine," she explained.

"Wow, didn't take long to fix the engine" said the passenger.

"Fix it? In this economy?" replied the stewardess. "No, we just found a deaf pilot."


Mixing speechreading (what used to be lipreading) and signs often has some funny real-life dramas.

Last week at Burger King, I ordered a milkshake by pointing to the large vanilla shake on the menu. The girl asked, "What flavor again?"

I said vanilla and unconsciously signed the word: a slight shake of the "V" sign.

Sure enough, she came back with two milkshakes. Of course the "V" sign and the number two are the same.

My fault, so I paid for two, thankful I didn't give a thumbs up, which also means the number ten, ha ha ha.

SaraP
06-10-2011, 12:34 AM
LOL!

Funny joke, btw. ;)

Chase
06-10-2011, 02:29 AM
--do people that are born deaf know that they are signing varieties of the same language when it comes to the different Englishes?

Yes, we who sign ASL realize BSL and Auslan are signed differently. They're so different that we often have to write back and forth when face-to-face. Especially me, as I can't speechread UK and Aussy accents quickly enough to follow.

ASL was developed in the early 1800s from an isolated community on Martha's Vineyard having many deaf residents.

Then Thomas Gallaudet, the founder of ASL, based its grammar on French, which he thought to be "the universal language." The results didn't ease communications with those who don't practice ASL.

We need a time machine to go back and fix all the differences in English.

SaraP
06-10-2011, 02:48 AM
Portuguese sign language developed in its earliest form from swedish sign language, adding in many words specific to the portuguese deaf community. For example, the days of week are based on what the deaf would eat on the institutions they lived in.

Strange to think that french culture was the biggest outside influence we had for a very long time, but we didn't use it when it came to sign language.

Filmfeline
06-10-2011, 08:11 AM
this may sound silly, but I never understood why Sign language is different in every country...I guess because they don't spell the words out... DUH

Chase
06-10-2011, 09:53 PM
Averon has it right, Filmfeline. There is an international sign language called Gestuno, a construct by a world organization of deaf people. However, like Esperanto, the international spoken language, relatively few people know it, and it shows no indication of taking hold.

Even within the US, ASL varies in many words and idioms. For instance, a deaf friend from the southeast makes the railroad sign with the top fingers flying off: Train-go. It means you’re too late; that train is long gone--you sure missed that opportunity.

My sister and I from the Pacific northwest say the same idiom with a rising airplane sign: the rest of us have left you behind, blockhead.

I guess in their differences, all languages are the same.

Snitchcat
06-11-2011, 05:58 AM
The title is rather misleading, but this is an absolutely fascinating thread.

Wish I could contribute more, which hopefully I can soon. You've made me very curious about Chinese sign language -- considering the vastness of the country and its variety of ethnicities, it should make for some very interesting research.

Snitchcat
06-11-2011, 12:25 PM
Lol. I have absolutely no idea. But it'd make for great research and I have a little time coming up...

Snitchcat
06-11-2011, 05:01 PM
Hmm.... I missed that one, I think. Which year was it? It'd be good to find out if it's available on YouTube or on the station's website. Do you have a link handy? If not, it's okay; I can look for it.

Chase
06-12-2011, 12:41 AM
it's that these are deaf dancers dancing in time to each other through the music which us hearing audience members can tell has a strong beat but the dancers themselves wouldn't really know.

Extremely interesting. I can't speak for the showmanship of deaf dancers, but synchronization practice has be exhausting. Without taking from its drama, lots of deafies are excellent at keeping the beat. We can feel vibrations through the floor and in the air. My sister is a regular Ginger Rogers, staying close to the bandstand or speakers.

Thanks, Snitchcat, for your suggestion to change the title. Sara took care of that.

Snowstorm
06-12-2011, 12:52 AM
I can hear, but I've memorized the alphabet of ASL. In fact, photos of a hand signing the different letters are my screen saver! (My life is way too busy and I forget easily.)

When I retired from the Air Force and went to the university in 2000, ASL courses were my number-one desired classes. Unfortunately, UW didn't consider it a language for its language requirement. (I took German). Of course, the year I graduated UW changed and now accepts ASL as fulfilling the language requirement.

SaraP
06-12-2011, 12:56 AM
Hmm.... I missed that one, I think. Which year was it? It'd be good to find out if it's available on YouTube or on the station's website. Do you have a link handy? If not, it's okay; I can look for it.

I went ahead and looked for it. There are a bunch of links under "chinese deaf dancers" and it's simply stunning (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3efht4-xNw).

I can never think too badly of mankind when I see works of art such as this. When we can dream of this and make it a reality, it can't be all that bad. :)

Snowstorm
06-12-2011, 01:04 AM
I went ahead and looked for it. There are a bunch of links under "chinese deaf dancers" and it's simply stunning (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3efht4-xNw).

I can never think too badly of mankind when I see works of art such as this. When we can dream of this and make it a reality, it can't be all that bad. :)

Wow. Thanks for posting that link. They were mesmerizing!

Chase
06-12-2011, 03:22 AM
"chinese deaf dancer"

Thanks for the URL, Sara. Stunning in right. I dated her once, the girl with all the hands. She was a whizz at signing, really hard for a slow guy like me to follow, ha ha ha.

:ty:

Just tried to test a "thank-you" smiley used at my deaf site. Didn't work here.

SaraP
06-12-2011, 03:24 AM
:ROFL:

Snitchcat
06-12-2011, 08:49 AM
Thanks for the link. I love watching events like that -- imagine the work that went into producing the final artistry....o.0 Loved it.

Snitchcat
06-13-2011, 06:28 PM
For anyone who's interested, I came across this article (written 2010) about the Chinese University of Hong Kong offering 6 deaf or hearing impaired Japanese students to study their degrees free.

There's also an image of Japanese sign language. It's small, though.

http://www.nippon-foundation.or.jp/eng/current/20100218Deaf.html

However, I believe this is the larger version: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jpasden/441792852/lightbox/


For Chinese Sign Language (CSL), I've so far found these links:

Pinyin
http://www.sinosplice.com/life/archives/2007/04/02/chinese-sign-language-fingerspelling

Actual Chinese Words
http://blog.huayuworld.org/CorvallisCS/11905/2009/12/07/21099

Starting Reference (do you really trust Wikipedia that much? :P)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Sign_Language

Chase
06-20-2011, 10:39 PM
This week's terrible politically incorrect joke:

The deaf buddy asks, "Was your wife mad when you got home so late last night?

The deaf husband replies, "She wouldnít stop ranting and swearing, even after we went to bed, so I shut her up."

"You didnít resort to physical abuse, did you?"

The deaf husband nods his fist, "Yes."

"Oh, my god! What did you do?"

"I turned off the light."


In another thread, Maryn asked if texting has served to integrate the deaf community into the mainstream.

My answer was too brief and dodged the issue, because I still canít find anything close to a deaf community in my town.

However, for all of us deaf and profoundly hard of hearing--especially those isolated as I am--texting has been a terrific tool for communicating with the hearing world.

Before the ability to text on cellular phones, we had TTY. Itís known by other names elsewhere, but its operation requires a TTY unit hooked to a land-line telephone on both ends, or at minimum a TTY operator in the middle. The system was plagued with problems, not the least of which were public places claiming to offer the service but which had few staff who knew how to use it. In one library, the equipment was still in the box under the desk where a sign said they had a TTY telephone. Also many, many businesses then and now flatly refuse to take TTY calls.

Iíve used both Montana and Oregon Relay for the Deaf (deaf folks like me who can speak). This requires a special land-line phone with a readout screen on my end, and we go through a relay operator who types out what the person on the other end says. Even though the LCD screen is only a quarter-inch by three inches and quickly scrolls all capital letters, it was a terrific way to stay in touch with hearing friends and family without them having special equipment other than a telephone. There were some problems with businesses hanging up on calls, but a persistent operator (most all of whom are wonderful advocates for the deaf) usually managed to get us through.

Text phones are even better. More and more people have them, and more and more owners are learning to text. Back in the days of ten-key phones, I taught my boss, co-workers, and some friends how to text--often against their wills, ha ha ha.

With todayís instant send photos and full miniature keyboards, the communications for deafies with hearies gets ever better and better.

Bartholomew
06-20-2011, 11:29 PM
I sign, but not very well. My vocab is limited and I have to spell out more words than I can sign, but I do know the entire alphabet, and I can generally make myself understood. I never have much of an opportunity to use it. My only deaf friend is a good lip reader.

I saw a movie produced for the deaf, once. It was fascinating. I can't recall the name, but it was a locked-room style murder mystery with a cast of deaf actors.

Chase
06-21-2011, 02:33 AM
What you do is you raise your hands in the air above your head and you wriggle your fingers. . . .

Good information. I'm sure you mean to rapidly "twist" both five-hands, rather than "wiggle" individual fingers. This is a relatively newer applause, as seen in Bill Vicar's ASL Dictionary at ASLUniversity. It's based on the sign "Wonderful," made lower with hands lifting heavenward slightly.

Sternberg's American Sign Language Dictionary and ASLPro's online dictionary still show the older applause: both hands are raised to one side of the top of the head and clapped lightly, without the intent to create sound.

The more fun and showy sign you mention is catching on. I like it.

http://www.lifeprint.com/

Once in the "A" dictionary, scroll to APPLAUSE.

Chase
06-24-2011, 12:54 AM
Todayís my birthday. Iím seeing lots of "happy birthday" signs:

1. "Happy" is made by with both five-hands at chest level, moving in and flipping up. Some lightly touch fingers to the chest; some donít. The everyday "happy" sign can be made with one hand, but usually two for birthday greetings.

2. "Birthday" has a dozen or more signs. Many sign "birth" and "day," making three separate signs for birthday. However, after a smiling "happy," most sign an idiom for "birthday." You touch the eight finger (middle finger) of the open five-hand to your chin and then to your heart. More simple to do than to write.

Iím seventy today, so I sign it "seven-ought."

Numbers are done with one hand.

A zero or ought is a circular O-sign (fingers all together, none sticking up).

Any kindergartner can do one through five (except the deaf three is the first two fingers and a thumb to differentiate from "W").

The next five numbers start with the little finger (six finger) on the thumb. Then you go up in size (and value) to the ring finger (seven finger) up through the middle finger (eight finger) until the forefinger (nine finger) is on the thumb (looks like a finger-spelled "F").

A ten is a thumb-up, like navy pilots say "ready."

Probably more than anyone wants to know about numbers. Ha ha ha, it was more fun to sign my age when I was twenty rather than now.

Iím celebrating my whines with wine Ė the expensive kind in the big jug with the screw cap. No cheap corked stuff for me.

Chase

SaraP
06-24-2011, 02:35 AM
Happiest of birthdays. :)

Snitchcat
06-24-2011, 06:05 AM
Belated Happy Birthday. Chase!

Maryn
06-29-2011, 05:08 PM
In another thread, Maryn asked if texting has served to integrate the deaf community into the mainstream.

My answer was too brief and dodged the issue, because I still canít find anything close to a deaf community in my town.

However, for all of us deaf and profoundly hard of hearing--especially those isolated as I am--texting has been a terrific tool for communicating with the hearing world.

Before the ability to text on cellular phones, we had TTY. Itís known by other names elsewhere, but its operation requires a TTY unit hooked to a land-line telephone on both ends, or at minimum a TTY operator in the middle. The system was plagued with problems, not the least of which were public places claiming to offer the service but which had few staff who knew how to use it. In one library, the equipment was still in the box under the desk where a sign said they had a TTY telephone. Also many, many businesses then and now flatly refuse to take TTY calls.

Iíve used both Montana and Oregon Relay for the Deaf (deaf folks like me who can speak). This requires a special land-line phone with a readout screen on my end, and we go through a relay operator who types out what the person on the other end says. Even though the LCD screen is only a quarter-inch by three inches and quickly scrolls all capital letters, it was a terrific way to stay in touch with hearing friends and family without them having special equipment other than a telephone. There were some problems with businesses hanging up on calls, but a persistent operator (most all of whom are wonderful advocates for the deaf) usually managed to get us through.

Text phones are even better. More and more people have them, and more and more owners are learning to text. Back in the days of ten-key phones, I taught my boss, co-workers, and some friends how to text--often against their wills, ha ha ha.

With todayís instant send photos and full miniature keyboards, the communications for deafies with hearies gets ever better and better.I'm late to the party (but I brought ice!). I've discussed TTY with the overly-chatty employees at the local video store, who report it's more usual to experience problems than to have it go smoothly for their deaf customers. (There's a large deaf community here, with a college for the deaf.) After asking Chase about texting, I thought to follow up at the video store, and yes, the employees who text find it much better than TTY. The owner, however, doesn't quite 'get' texting and still uses TTY.

The main problem is that the questions deaf callers have fall into the easily-answered ("What time do you close?" "Do you have 'Superbad' in stock?") and the impossible ("Is your copy of 'Superbad' close-captioned or only subtitled in English?").

Which brings up another question from an ignorant 'hearie.' Are DVD subtitles sufficient for movie comprehension and enjoyment? How do subtitles differ from closed captioning?

Maryn, still learning

SaraP
06-29-2011, 05:16 PM
Oooh, great question, Maryn!

I'll add: what is close-caption?

Chase
06-29-2011, 10:34 PM
Which brings up another question from an ignorant hearie. Are DVD subtitles sufficient for movie comprehension and enjoyment? How do subtitles differ from closed captioning?

As usual, it's complicated (or I'm too anal):

Closed captions (CC) are the original words flashed on TV screens for the deaf, hard-of-hearing, and watchers who process English better when written. In the early '90s, I purchased a caption device about the size of breadbox which sat atop the TV. Spotty as they were (and often still are) CC is a Godsend for those of us who need it. In the US (different, I'm told, in other countries) CC is white dialog and brief sound-action descriptions in a black box. CC requires captioning at the program source and a TV with a caption player. Most TV shows, DVDs, and TVs now sold in the US support CC. There are problems, and some broadcast sources are worse than others (especially with robot word generators), but without CC, programs and movies are extremely difficult to understand, even for excellent speechreaders.

English subtitles (E-subs) are prepared as part of the film, no special player required, usually dialog only--no sounds or actions. The perks to subs are they have proper upper and lower case letters (Many CC presentations are in all caps) and spelling and punctuation are proofed worlds better. All of this improves speed of reading and enhances understanding. There are no boxes to blot out action; you can see around the letters, which seems to improve the visual experience.

Subtitles for Deaf and Hard-of-hearing (SDH) at this time is restricted to the better DVDs. I hope it becomes the communication standard for the news and entertainment industry. SDH has the best features of both CC and E-subs. We get well-proofed, see-through dialog in upper and lower case. If the speaker is off-camera, the speaker is named. If music plays, we're told the title and artist and we get lyrics bracketed by music notation so we don't confuse it with dialog. Background sounds are briefly described.

SDH is so great that I've become a snob and look for it on the DVD before I borrow, rent, or buy. For my sister and I, it's as close to hearing as we'll get in this world.

My girlfriend is a hearie (sharpest ears in the northwest, her kids claim) but always turns on captioning when she watches TV, even when alone, live performances or movies. She says too many people on screen mumble.

However, there are some who find captions a horrible distraction, so it's a good thing you can choose them or not.

SaraP
06-29-2011, 10:39 PM
I like to turn on english subtitles when I'm watching something. Part of it is because I'm so visually used to subtitles, part is helping with the mumbling.

Thanks for the explanations, Chase. I don't think I had ever heard of CC before.

Chase
06-30-2011, 11:57 PM
Enjoyed your interesting take on closed captioned TV in China. CC isn't only for people unable to hear well.


What are your equivalents to rhyme, word play & tongue twisters?

Before it moved to Fremont, my sister attended the upscale school for the deaf at University of California--Berkeley. Sheís the real ASL expert, but awaiting her reply, here are my impressions:


1. Signs donít rhyme, but many look like something else, though they mostly cause confusion. For instance, some hearing people begin pumping multiple thumbs-up signs, maybe indicating theyíre okay with me being deaf, but it comes across as a nervous, "Ten-ten-ten-ten-ten-ten. . . ."

(Thumb up is the number 10). For me, itís even funnier, as my name is one thumb-up fist chasing a second thumb-up fist, so it sometimes looks like the non-ASL signer is flashing my name over and over.

Another look-alike is the sign for hungry in another contexts also means starved for sex.

2. We have lots and lots of word sign play. Hereís just one example: Train-gone.

Instead of the upper two fingers on the sign for train, make an L (for "loser") then have it fly off the bottom "railroad track" fingers into a G-hand.

"Train-gone" is an idiom meaning: you missed it, and we wonít take time out to go through the whole long story to catch you up on what were talking about.

You might see it if you show up in the middle of a conversation and sign, "What are you talking about?"

3. For those born deaf or deafened early, learning to speak is always full of tongue-twisters. Even now, after totally deaf for only ten years, I garble words and say one word for another.

It happens in signing. Recently I signed to my girlfriend "Where-ready-lunch?" trying to say "Where would you like to eat lunch when youíre ready?" It looked to her as if Iíd signed: "Whereís the restroom, loser?"

I'm lucky she has a sense of humor.

Maryn
07-01-2011, 01:33 AM
Anybody's lucky to have a significant other with a sense of humor. Especially when they think you've just signed "Starved for sex" and what you really want is a sandwich.

Maryn, hungry now

Chase
07-01-2011, 02:24 AM
The subtitling I'm talking about isn't closed caption . . . the subtitles I'm talking about are not optional. . . .

The other thing it does not do is bring up each word separately as the person says them.

Got it; thanks for clarifying.

I'm so very glad captioning and subtitles here don't flash one word at a time (or scroll like Oregon Relay for the Deaf phones). I speed-read whole lines while flicking back and forth between words to images.

The closest theater with movies for the deaf is one lone theater on certain midweek days thirty miles away in the capitol, so we wait for the DVD releases. A perk is the pause button for refills of buttered popcorn and bathroom breaks.

Katrina S. Forest
07-16-2011, 03:30 PM
Do you have any suggestions for what to do (or not do) if someone's trying to learn some ASL on their own?

I'm planning to take real classes in the fall once my little guy's off to school, but in the meantime I've mostly been practicing my alphabet so I can fingerspell (though it turns out I was signing J wrong).

I think I'm just nervous because whenever I've taken foreign language classes before, the teacher's begun the class in English. The ASL classes I'm looking at go for total immersion right off the bat. (Also, it's the first time I've taken a foreign language class with basically zero background knowledge going in.) ^_^;;

Chase
07-16-2011, 09:01 PM
Do you have any suggestions for what to do (or not do) if someone's trying to learn some ASL on their own?

Some ASL teachers disagree, but especially for adult learners, I believe practicing the fingerspelled alphabet and numbers -- with both hands -- is the best foundation to learning ASL.

At the very least, it can't hurt, as many, many ASL words and phrases are based on the hand forms of the alphabet and numbers.

On your own, learning from a book or still pictures is difficult, as you discovered with the flip of the little finger to draw a "J" in the air.

Videos with fingerspelling and ASL in motion are better (better: Begin to sign "good" then end with the thumb-up "ten" sign at ear-level beside your head).

However, live practice with a more experienced signer is always best (best: Begin to sign "good" then end with the thumb-up "ten" sign level with the top of your head).

Yep, full immersion ASL classes are intimidating, but hang in there and re-take the class until you master most of it before you move on to the next higher offering.

Don't be too rigid with yourself or others; as do all languages, ASL has different signs for the same word or phrase, and many signs change from locale to local.

Good luck with your ASL journey.

Chase
07-24-2011, 10:38 PM
Interesting. Several deaf friends and one blind friend thought so, too. I always applaud efforts to make people aware of challenges. In this case, the affliction of becoming temporarily blind and deaf.

I realize the comments my friends and I had will smack of sour grapes, but we thought this "project" wasnít much more than entertainment for the sighted and hearing.

Itís been done many, many times before in schools and social settings, but more often without so much amusement. Blind and deaf people I know have terrific senses of humor, but the hilarity in this event seemed to be at the expense of the challenges.

A few ironies struck us:

1. Itís telling that none of the clips were accompanied by descriptions for the blind or subtitles for the deaf.

2. Instead of full sentences, any writing for the deaf was reduced to a couple of terse words, as if for a backward reader.

3. The first lettered sign, greeted with much hilarity, was "STOP SHOUTING." Itís true most deaf speakers often are too soft or too loud. We have no accurate volume control, but the hearing panelist was quick to demand accommodation for his sensitive ears at the expense of the handicapped participant. Many deafies tell everyday stories of similar treatment.

As I said: It was interesting. It's good they had fun, and it's even possible there was some learning.

Chase
09-05-2011, 10:01 PM
Below is my sister Diane, deaf since birth. We're at the thirtieth annual World Deaf Timberfest, a week-long camp in stands of Douglas firs just outside Stayton, Oregon.

Sis lives in San Francisco and has attended every five years since '86.

I've only been deaf ten years, so hundreds signing ASL non-stop, hands a-blur, was a fun week. I picked up so much new ASL that my brain's bursting and my fingers, hands, and arms hurt, ha ha ha.

http://i523.photobucket.com/albums/w355/chasenott/001.jpg

Activities included lumberjack and lumberjill ax throwing contests, log chopping and sawing races, timed pole-climbing.

Everyone was welcome to compete, so I won the over-seventy ax throw (because I was the only thrower over seventy to stick it once out of three tries, ha ha ha). Anyway, it was fun to watch the young deafies compete and play in the Oregon woods.

A wonderful time was had by all.

Zelenka
01-09-2012, 09:41 AM
I realise this is coming very late to the thread, but just found it through another search and wanted to say how fascinating it's been to read. I don't know ASL but I did study British Sign Language for a while, basically so that we could at the very least fingerspell some of the names cropping up on the tour we did of London. I really must take it up again. Worked for a long time in the subtitling department of the local TV broadcaster and was responsible for some of the production aspects of one of the signed news reviews, but I haven't really had to use my BSL for so long, I've probably lost it all.

One thing I've noticed though since I moved to the Czech Republic is the Czech and Slovak TV seems to have a lot more signed content than the UK, which buries its programmes mostly in the wee small hours.

Anyway, as I said, fascinating thread, just wanted to say hi.

Chase
01-15-2012, 05:03 AM
Anyway, as I said, fascinating thread, just wanted to say hi.

Zelenka,

Never too late, and I hope you'll forgive me not checking here in a while. First I had to shoot my old faithful laptop, then housebreak a new one. And I'm so s-l-o-w (drags extended fingers of a hand over the back and up the wrist of the other).

I have several English-thinking deaf friends in other lands, but Brit and Aussie sign is different, so we write.

Even ASL signs change a bit from locale to locale. My sister lives in the richer deaf environment of San Francisco's bay area, and she signs "sister," "brother," "man," "woman," and various other signs differently than we learned as kids. I'm always playing catch-up when we visit the other.

Nice to meet you,

Chase

Katrina S. Forest
01-28-2012, 08:53 AM
Just wanted to jump back into the thread to say that I finally got to take my first ASL class. Though the first class was a bit unique. Our teacher had an interpreter there for the first week only. Next week, she warned us, the interpreter was gone and we were banned from speaking.

We actually got on the topic of how ASL can differ from place to place. She showed up three or four different ways to sign, "birthday." I only remember one, though. ^_^;;

Chase
01-29-2012, 12:29 AM
I finally got to take my first ASL class.

Hey, Kat, kudos to you! In my opinion, full immersion classes are best for any language. Think or thwim, ha ha ha.

Keep "Kat" as your deaf name, if you choose. Itís an old tradition to get your deaf name from a deafie. That would be me, if you like the sign, but feel free to ask a deaf friend.

Cat: paint cat whiskers on your cheek with the clasped thumb and forefinger of the F-hand (for feline). Sign descriptions are sometimes hard, so go here for a visual:

http://www.aslpro.com/cgi-bin/aslpro/aslpro.cgi (http://www.aslpro.com/cgi-bin/aslpro/aslpro.cgi)

For whatever reason and in so many ways, your signing class experience will come in handy. Donít let yourself get bogged down in differences. We deafies relish heating the air with arguments for and against the "purity" of Gallaudetís ASL, accommodating hearies with SEE (signed exact English), other dialects, this precise sign over that general idiom, to cochlear young or not to cochlear at all, the relative values of relay systems. It never ends, just like the squabbles we writers enjoy at AW, ha ha ha.

The sameness of sign will link you to many hearts.

Chase (one ten-hand [:Thumbs:] chasing the other ten-hand)

Katrina S. Forest
01-29-2012, 04:32 PM
I would love to keep Kat as my deaf name. I'll mention it to my teacher this week. (We're learning how to introduce ourselves.) Thanks so much!

I get why people invented SEE, but I'd much rather learn a language that native speakers use on a regular basis. Yes, learning new grammar is tricky, but that's part of the process. I wouldn't walk into a Japanese class and expect the teacher to rearrange sentence structures just to make it easier on me.

Just my two cents.

Chase
01-29-2012, 10:59 PM
Dear Kat (Chase makes two quick cat whisker signs)

Another apropos is your name sign takes place on the bottom (feminine) half of the face. Unfortunately for me, my sister--four years older and deaf from birth--named me with a "C" to the chin when I was a baby. It took years for her to re-bestow my less feminine sign name.

Your two-cents is a good one. I use ASL when conversing silently. From long habit, I sign as a crutch when I speak and read faces of speakers, and it's less confusing all around if I segue into SEE.

I catch proper hell from my sister and other ASL devotees for such blasphemy.

Please drop a note now and then about your classes. Sometimes they're a riot.

Literateparakeet
01-30-2012, 01:34 AM
Hello, can I join in? I'm hearing, but I love ASL. I took a class years ago (Stone Ages), and then moved out of the area. Later I took a class in SEE because that was all that was offered. I prefer ASL.

Then I got married and became a mother of five, so taking a class hasn't been an option. Fortunately though there are many resources these days to further my knowledge of ASL. I realize it would be best to take a class or learn from a Deaf person, but since neither are an option now, I do what I can. I have taught all my children, and we sign for fun. We're not fluent by any means, but it is a lot of fun.

So Chase, I thought SEE sign was to help Deaf children learning to read in English, as opposed to being a crutch for hearing folks. :) Am I mistaken on that?

Kat, enjoy your class, I'm green with envy!

Chase
01-30-2012, 05:16 AM
So Chase, I thought SEE sign was to help Deaf children learning to read in English, as opposed to being a crutch for hearing folks. Am I mistaken on that?

Of course you're welcome here. It's not really my show, and I figure the more the merrier.

First, I’m not even close to an expert at signing in the U.S. I’m going to attempt to respond to your question very carefully, because this discussion at my favorite deaf site never fails to erupt into flame wars with death threats and multiple bannings.

You’re not mistaken about Dr. Gustason intending SEE as a tool to help deaf children learn to read; however, other educators now make use of the system.

An interpreter and teacher of ASL I respect is quite hostile to SEE and protective of ASL. She explains: ASL was a language in use long before the manual code called SEE was developed in the ‘70s. It’s a code, like Morse Code or the police Ten-Code. SEE confiscated ASL signs, switched their proper order, tossed in initializing, and added prefixes and suffixes.

SEE may or may not have evolved into crutch for hearing people. I don’t know. In the past, I’ve seen it used to help both children and adults with cochlear implants speak and understand English words and phrases in the order they’re usually spoken.

However, it is my crutch. I'm deaf. After thirty years of being progressively hard-of-hearing, I’ve been totally deaf eleven years. In the school where I studied speech-reading (formerly lip-reading), many of us late deafened learners found SEE a great teaching/learning tool.

Because I learned ASL growing up, I use it when communicating with those who know it.

Rightly or wrongly, though, many deafies with hearie friends use SEE or PSE (Pidgin Signed English) to facilitate communications. PSE is neither ASL nor SEE; it’s perhaps best described as a colloquial combination of the two.

Katrina S. Forest
01-30-2012, 06:03 AM
I understand what you mean about SEE. There's a *huge* difference between me as an adult learning a language out of personal interest and a child learning out of necessity. What's best for my learning is really no comparison whatsoever.

Maybe the big reason I want to learn ASL rather than SEE is that English grammar is so absurd, I'm just excited about the prospect of tossing it out a window. ^_^

Literateparakeet
01-30-2012, 12:17 PM
Thanks Chase, that was really helpful. I didn't realize SEE was such a hot topic for the Deaf Community. I guess every culture/board has their hot topics though.

Chase
01-31-2012, 12:50 AM
Oh, yeah. They run a heated gamut from "my deaf school is better than your deaf school," no different from lots of loyal students, to being totally for or dead set against cochlear implants. The deaf/Deaf capitalization thing never gets a rest.

In my very limited experience, most of the flames and ballistic missiles are traded, as you said, at on-line sites.

I'm not saying there isn't controversy at face-to-face gatherings--dances, picnics, or the annual week-long Timberfest near here--there just seems to be more give and take, support for different views, and lots more laughter.

I go to see flying fingers painting the air with the latest ASL jokes, as much as for the dancing girls, food, or axe-throwing and log-sawing contests. I see lots more more sameness than differences.

Both you and Kat are like the rest of us, safe with ASL as our main medium.

Literateparakeet
01-31-2012, 03:50 AM
Oh, yeah. They run a heated gamut from "my deaf school is better than your deaf school," no different from lots of loyal students, to being totally for or dead set against cochlear implants. The deaf/Deaf capitalization thing never gets a rest.

In my very limited experience, most of the flames and ballistic missiles are traded, as you said, at on-line sites.

I'm not saying there isn't controversy at face-to-face gatherings--dances, picnics, or the annual week-long Timberfest near here--there just seems to be more give and take, support for different views, and lots more laughter.

I go to see flying fingers painting the air with the latest ASL jokes, as much as for the dancing girls, food, or axe-throwing and log-sawing contests. I see lots more more sameness than differences.

Both you and Kat are like the rest of us, safe with ASL as our main medium.

I can understand the school thing, LOL! I had no idea that deaf/Deaf was an issue though.

Knowing they have these kinds of differences helps me in a unique way. Are you familiar with youtube's Stephen Torrence or Captain Valor? He used to do a lot of videos where he signed the songs in ASL, and my personal favorite, he also posted the gloss he used. I love to watch him and learn. He stopped making videos though because he said he was accused by some Deaf people of trying to bring music to the Deaf community, and that he had no place doing that since his ASL was not good enough.

The funny thing is I never imagined that he was trying to bring music to the Deaf Community, but rather that he loved ASL and was trying to bring it to the hearing community. Anyway, I found it a bit discouraging...why try to learn the language? I told myself that surely there are differences in the Deaf Community and that opinion did not reflect everyone. This conversation has proven to me that that is likely.

I know my ASL isn't perfect, but I like to think if I ever met a Deaf person they would appreciate my efforts. :) Mostly I use it with my kids...it's so fun. I also teach a homeschool ASL class (scandalous since I have no "real" training :). But I am upfront with my students about what my level of ASL is and how I got it.

And I still think Stephen Torrence is awesome! LOL!

Chase
01-31-2012, 05:28 AM
I think you have a good handle on song signers. They really are mostly hearies into a neat thing for other hearies. Because of that, some deafies get territorial and take offense, but theyíre usually the ones who label anything and everything that doesnít spring from deep within the traditional deaf culture as audist" (those who arenít deaf but know whatís best for the deaf) or "surdophobic" (those with a dergree of dread or unconscious tension around deaf people).

Most of us think things like songs and such are positive, drawing attention to diversity. Personally, I think itís fun to watch, especially with a song book in church or subtitles of the lyrics on TV to follow along.

If the performer you like quit, it seems as though a few naysayers got their way. Thatís why I balk at a capitalized deaf community; weíre just as fragmented and have dark sides as any other group.

Kudos to your teaching signs to others. You donít need a PhD from Gallaudet U (Go, Bisons!) to teach some basic signs. As you say, I always appreciate anyone able to sign "please," "thank you," "youíre welcome," "yes," "no," and count to ten. Anything past that is gravy. I speechread, but even in good light and conditions, the best of us get under 80% accuracy and have a comprehension delay long enough to irk speakers. Ha ha ha, sometimes I donít get what was said until hours later.

I give semi-annual classes for my dentist and optometrist. A good illustrated ASL dictionary and a couple of easily accessed on-line visual dictionaries keep us, myself included, from going too far astray.

It's really nice chatting with you. Thanks.

Chase
02-01-2012, 09:11 PM
The sign for "joke" is one x-hand brushing atop the other x-hand.

A deaf woman who speaks and speechreads goes to her ophthalmologist.

"Doctor, my vision has deteriorated so much itís hard to read lips."

"What are the symptoms?"

"A TV show about a little yellow family, but whatís that got to do with my vision problem?"

The sign for "funny" is brushing the fingertips of the h-hand across the tip of the nose. If the joke is a groaner, roll your eyes while making the sign.

SaraP
02-12-2012, 05:06 AM
Because of that, some deafies get territorial and take offense, but theyíre usually the ones who label anything and everything that doesnít spring from deep within the traditional deaf culture as audist" (those who arenít deaf but know whatís best for the deaf) or "surdophobic" (those with a dergree of dread or unconscious tension around deaf people).

I had no idea this word existed. Neat to know. Surdo means deaf in portuguese. :)

Chase
02-14-2012, 01:42 AM
Surdo means deaf in portuguese.

I try to memorize phrases in other languages to go along with the signs: I am deaf.

In French it's Je suis sourd.

In Spanish it's Soy sordo.

Is the phrase in Portuguese close to one of those?

SaraP
02-14-2012, 02:20 AM
It's similar to the Spanish, which is not a surprise due to the similarities between the two languages.

We say Sou surdo. Just like in Spanish, the verb is enough to convey who is talking.

Chase
02-14-2012, 03:05 AM
We say Sou surdo.

Can you give me a rhyming word with sou?

ncochrane3
02-16-2012, 05:34 PM
I don't speak ASL... yet! I am returning to school in September to get my DSW and in my second semester there is a course on ASL. I am not sure yet if my focus will be on autism or cerebral palsy, but I am sure it will come in handy and I am excited to learn!

Nikki
www.onetinystarfish.blogspot.com (http://www.onetinystarfish.blogspot.com)

Chase
02-16-2012, 09:46 PM
Hi, Nikki. Social work is a high calling in my book, and a doctorate in the field can do worlds of good. Studies and practice in ASL will encourage a much better rapport with hard-of-hearing and deaf clients.

I'm always more at home with health care (and other) professionals who sign even a little. Good luck returning to school.

ncochrane3
02-16-2012, 10:52 PM
thanks so much :)

SaraP
02-24-2012, 03:08 AM
Can you give me a rhyming word with sou?

Think of the word soul, but cut it off right before the u sound. Hope that helps. :)

Chase
02-24-2012, 03:18 AM
Thanks so much. I'm totally prepared for my next trip to Brazil, ha ha ha.

SaraP
02-24-2012, 03:25 AM
Oh, no, no! :roll:

The sound I gave you was for European Portuguese. Brazillian Portuguese will still sound close to soul, but cut off at the L. :D

Chase
03-20-2012, 10:32 AM
Did you hear the applause? Probably not, 'cause deaf people usually raise their hands and wiggle them or wave instead of clapping.

The silent excitement is National Deaf History Month from March 13 to April 15.

Okay, why such weird dates? Thought you'd never draw that question mark in the air. The first date (March 13, 1988) was the successful protest by Gallaudet University students for a deaf president at GU.

Paradoxically, we travel back in time for the end date (April 15, 1817) when the first American School for Deaf was established in Hartford, Connecticut.

History session done. The lights just flashed to end this class, so wave your hands.

Literateparakeet
03-20-2012, 11:43 AM
Thanks Chase, I love this kind of stuff.

I will be sure and share this with my ASL class!

I mean about National Deaf History Month and the reason for the dates. (we knew about the applause :)).

Chase
06-23-2012, 07:02 PM
Today, I'm 71 (tap the ring finger on your thumb for seven, then hold up your index finger for one).

"Birthday" used to be a cumbersome word with two signs of birth+day. To put "happy" in front or back was an additional sign.

Nowadays, most of us deafies use a single sign: Place your open five-hand to your lips (as in the beginning of "good" and "thanks") but bend your middle finger to touch your chin. Then transfer the hand (finger still bent) to touch over your heart.

So happy birthday to kindone (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=6331), Chase (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=19626) (71), Abstractrx (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=20317), mdfa (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=1539) (47), bloemmarc (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=2852) (26), ILUVJLD (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=23893) (25), Private_Peterson (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=37709) (21), DoomyMuffins (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=33743), and Metaphor (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/member.php?u=15572) (18).

Katrina S. Forest
10-26-2012, 03:14 PM
Eek, I can't believe I've been away from this thread so long. I feel like I'm turning more and more into an AW lurker. Anyway, a very belated but very happy birthday, Chase!

Not sure where to begin on what I've been up to.

So, my spring class ends and I'm super excited about summer classes. Hooray, I'm thinking. School is closed, so I have all these free hours. It will be so much nicer.

Sadly, not everyone feels that way about summer and we were one student short of the minimum number to hold the class. *tears*

My original intention was to sign up for fall classes. Sure, I've got a baby on the way in a few months, but I can still drive, dang it. Then my other half sat down and had the, "don't be insane" talk with me. (This is the talk I get when the number of activities I try to do exceeds the boundaries of common sense.) It boiled down to, "either you forego the ASL class or you give up trying to finish your novel before the baby is born, aand I know you won't do that second option, even if you say you will."

Yeah, he's right. I won't. So, teary-eyed again (as anything makes me teary-eyed nowadays), I let the deadline for fall classes come and go.

So right now my plan is to just keep up practicing as much as I can and hope next summer has more interested students.

On the bright side, I was happy to see that they are offering some "ASL for Mommy" classes elsewhere, and while it will probably just be baby-related vocab-building, it's a class I can bring the baby along to. I'm also still getting e-mails from my ASL class about local events so I'm going to keep an eye out for things I can bring the baby to there as well. (I do need to master how to sign, "I suck at signing," though. I feel anyone who tries to start a conversation with me deserves that warning. ^_^ )

Chase
03-14-2013, 07:01 PM
Splitting months may seem weird, but it begins a trip back through time:

Revolution. On March 13, 1988, Irving King Jordan was elected Gallaudet Universityís first deaf president. Students revolted at the appointment of yet another hearing GU president, the appointee resigned, and Jordan was elected.

Charter Day. On April 8, 1864, President Abraham Lincoln signed the charter establishing Gallaudet University campus in Washington, D.C.

Principal Founding Father. On April 15, 1817, Dr. Thomas Hopkins Gallaudet opened the American School for the Deaf as its first principal.

So sign "hello" to a deafie this month (and half of next month):

Sort of a British palm-out salute after touching the right temple. :e2salute:

Chase
03-27-2013, 08:37 PM
Hi, it's me again.

As the day approaches when spring is celebrated by filling wicker baskets with colored eggs, marshmallow chicks, and chocolate bunnies, please remember itís the middle of National Deaf Month (yeah, itís two half-months, go figure).

Nobunny should be so cruel as to bite the ears off. ;)

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/8504/easter3x.jpg

Katrina S. Forest
04-24-2013, 09:25 PM
Hi, it's me again.

As the day approaches when spring is celebrated by filling wicker baskets with colored eggs, marshmallow chicks, and chocolate bunnies, please remember it’s the middle of National Deaf Month (yeah, it’s two half-months, go figure).

Nobunny should be so cruel as to bite the ears off. ;)

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/8504/easter3x.jpg

Oh, geez, that reminds me of my toddler this Easter:

"First I eat Bunny's ears! Then I eat Bunny's head! Then I eat Bunny's body!"

(He still drools like a maniac by the way, so this was all said with chocolate drooling down his chin.)

I like the two half-month thing, actually. It's different. I think each month has about a million different things being celebrated, some way more worthy of attention than others. (I Googled "National Bread Month" as a random thing just to see. Yup, it exists. November, actually.)

In other news, I'm going to have to take an ASL test for placement in the level 2 class, since I've been gone a year. I think it's just going to be introducing myself, letters, colors, stuff like that. I'm happy to finally be getting back, but tests always make me nervous.

Chase
04-24-2013, 09:58 PM
Nice to "hear" from you. Okay, I'll quit the deafie jokes which sometimes make hearies uncomfortable and kill the thread.

I'm so glad you're back to your :deaf: studies. Speaking of which, our AW admins were gracious enough to borrow some ASL smileys for us.

You already saw :ily: for "I love/like you" and :deaf: to sign "I'm deaf."

We also have:

:ty:

:applause: (The white waving hands for silent applause are hard to see, so Alleycat may outline them for us)

:yesway::yesway: (When together as you know, this one says "chase" in ASL, my specialty signature.

moth
04-24-2013, 10:58 PM
I did not know AW had ASL smilies! *goes, finds them all, swoons*

Katrina, good luck on your test! I hope they don't videotape you, those were always the bane of my existence. Although I suppose now it wouldn't be tape, lol. But still.

I hear you about being nervous for a test, no matter how prepared you feel. But I think nerves before a test are good, because it shows you care. I've taken a bunch of pro exams over the years, expressive and receptive, state and national, and I was a wreck every time. I've got one coming in October that I'm scared to death of. But I've seen your threads about April, and you know what you're talking about. I think your test results will show you know your stuff. :)



:yesway::yesway: (When together as you know, this one says "chase" in ASL, my specialty signature.

Love it! I saw this at the end of one of your posts the other day and the literal representation honestly didn't occur to me. Hope that doesn't make me a bad terp... ;)

I use that sign "chase" for "chassť" (for obvious reasons :D ) in the ballet class I interpret for a little deaf girl. This is the 6th year I've been doing this class for her, and last year I had reason to write down all the different signs I've had to invent for the class over that time -- it approached 100 :eek: and continues to grow with all the new stuff her teachers present. It's fascinating because of the French history/influence on ASL paired with all the French vocabulary in ballet. (It's also nerve-wracking because I don't get a heads-up on the new lessons, so I usually have to think really fast! Luckily she's a sweet girl and understands if I think of a better sign later.)

It's weird, because I took 14 years of ballet myself (age 4 to 18), and I took French in h.s. and college, so I'm in a good position to make up signs for an English usage (I almost said "gloss," but I don't think that's right) of French words.

Katrina S. Forest
04-24-2013, 11:09 PM
Wow, that's cool! I'm notorious for ignoring the smilies, so

:ty: for pointing them out. ^_^

I'm fine with jokes as long as no one asks me to make any, as I apparently am only funny when I didn't mean to be.


Nice to "hear" from you. Okay, I'll quit the deafie jokes which sometimes make hearies uncomfortable and kill the thread.

I'm so glad you're back to your :deaf: studies. Speaking of which, our AW admins were gracious enough to borrow some ASL smileys for us.

You already saw :ily: for "I love/like you" and :deaf: to sign "I'm deaf."

We also have:

:ty:

:applause: (The white waving hands for silent applause are hard to see, so Alleycat may outline them for us)

:yesway::yesway: (When together as you know, this one says "chase" in ASL, my specialty signature.

Haggis
04-24-2013, 11:24 PM
Chase, you can always post the deafie jokes in the Old Fart's thread. We laugh at anything there.

We drool a lot too.

Katrina S. Forest
04-24-2013, 11:33 PM
I did not know AW had ASL smilies! *goes, finds them all, swoons*

Katrina, good luck on your test! I hope they don't videotape you, those were always the bane of my existence. Although I suppose now it wouldn't be tape, lol. But still.

I hear you about being nervous for a test, no matter how prepared you feel. But I think nerves before a test are good, because it shows you care. I've taken a bunch of pro exams over the years, expressive and receptive, state and national, and I was a wreck every time. I've got one coming in October that I'm scared to death of. But I've seen your threads about April, and you know what you're talking about. I think your test results will show you know your stuff. :)

Aw, thanks for the encouragement. I suppose they could ask me to record a video, but my guess it will just be a simple video chat.

One way I've been getting vocab practice in is when I'm trying to get the new baby to go to sleep, I open up Marlee Signs on my iPhone. I had another app at one point where the creator talked through each sign, which really annoyed me. I know they were just trying to give a helpful mnemonic, but 1) It doesn't seem useful for teaching a non-speaking language and 2) I generally use my iPhone in places where sound isn't really appropriate anyway.

One thing that confuses me on the Marlee Signs app, though, is the grammar. For example, I remember our ASL teacher taught us to sign, "What's your name?" as [YOU][NAME][WHAT]. But in the app, Marlee signs it, [WHAT][YOU][NAME]. I've been practicing the way I learned it.

Chase
04-24-2013, 11:40 PM
:ty: all. Didn't know we had :deaf: interpreters (terps) here at AW.

Just so you know, I've only been totally :deaf: for :yesway: (ten) years, after two decades of worsening HoH, but my big sis couldn't hear from birth, so we grew up on ASL.

I speak and speechread.

:yesway::yesway:

P.S. You got it, Haggis. Love your avatar. Hannibal (with closed captions) was on the AMC channel last night.

Maryn
04-25-2013, 12:49 AM
I thought of this thread really hard last night. Did you all feel a funny vibration or anything, or am I not all that smart?

I was watching "Tosh.0" and host Daniel Tosh was doing his usual comedic riffs based on YouTube videos, including a fight breaking out at what appears to be a Halloween party for deaf people, some of whom have been drinking too much.

While Tosh was insult-comic funny about what they might have been arguing about, I wanted to know what they were signing before that one guy took a swing.

http://tosh.comedycentral.com/video-clips/9eeay3/video-breakdown---deaf-fight---uncensored (Note that's uncensored-- Hm, is swearing and cursing the same in ASL?) Anybody?

Maryn, curious

Chase
04-25-2013, 04:59 AM
I wanted to know what they were signing before that one guy took a swing.

The argument started with the guy in the black turtleneck signing: Wrong. Saw-you. You-wrong . . . or . . . [what-you-sign] wrong.

The guy in the hat at one point signed a quick f--k you. It’s made by slamming the V fingers together where branch from the hand and then pointing at the victim of the curse. When we were little and mad at each other, my sister and I threw that and more insults back and forth like a crazed ping-pong match.

Turtleneck’s forefinger to head where Daniel froze the frame is think.

After the guy in the hat got up, turtleneck signed fine! just before he was pushed.

Then another guy confronted hat, signing me-maybe-push/fight?

Kay said Daniel was going for jokes rather than a good translation. Of course, she got all huffy at making fun of deafies, but I thought it was all good.

:yesway::yesway:

Haggis
04-25-2013, 05:12 AM
:ty: all. Didn't know we had :deaf: interpreters (terps) here at AW.

Just so you know, I've only been totally :deaf: for :yesway: (ten) years, after two decades of worsening HoH, but my big sis couldn't hear from birth, so we grew up on ASL.

I speak and speechread.

:yesway::yesway:

P.S. You got it, Haggis. Love your avatar. Hannibal (with closed captions) was on the AMC channel last night.
:yesway::yesway:,

What's ASL for cray's usual whiny smilie--:e2moon:

Chase
04-25-2013, 05:42 AM
What's ASL for cray's usual whiny smilie--:e2moon:

The sign: look through the 3/4 circle of the C-hand (for the crescent moon), then push it away from the eye slightly skyward.

To see it signed, go to:

http://www.aslpro.com/cgi-bin/aslpro/aslpro.cgi

Click on "M," then scroll down to "moon" and check out the add-on for "full moon."

:yesway::yesway:

P.S. In every ASL class I've ever taught, the first "how do you say" questions are always for smut signs, ha ha ha.

Haggis
04-25-2013, 05:46 AM
I'm not the kind of puppy who likes to disappoint. :D

eta: you described that perfectly. So how do deafies distinguish between "moon" and "moon?" Context?

Haggis
04-25-2013, 05:58 AM
Just a thought here, :yesway::yesway:. Might the crescent moon ASL sign be used to describe someone who might be considered "half-assed?"

Chase
04-25-2013, 06:14 AM
As you said, context and surrounding words. For instance, up is pointing heavenward:

Cray-us-moon-make. (Cray is mooning us.)

Moon-up-sky. (The moon is above [us])

Edit: Such sign-play is possible within groups; deafies also have their cool signs. However, there is no deaf idiom I'm aware of for the term "half-assed."

I could make the signs: the one finger, then dropping the hand below it to sign a two for half (1/2). Then I could sign behind or rear, but few deafies would get it. Sorry.

Maryn
04-25-2013, 06:18 AM
The argument started with the guy in the black turtleneck signing: Wrong. Saw-you. You-wrong . . . or . . . [what-you-sign] wrong.

The guy in the hat at one point signed a quick f--k you. Itís made by slamming the V fingers together where branch from the hand and then pointing at the victim of the curse. When we were little and mad at each other, my sister and I threw that and more insults back and forth like a crazed ping-pong match.

Turtleneckís forefinger to head where Daniel froze the frame is think.

After the guy in the hat got up, turtleneck signed fine! just before he was pushed.

Then another guy confronted hat, signing me-maybe-push/fight?

Kay said Daniel was going for jokes rather than a good translation. Of course, she got all huffy at making fun of deafies, but I thought it was all good.

:yesway::yesway:Thanks, Chase.

I might have taken offense if Tosh hadn't started with "Deaf people want to be treated like anyone else, which means we make fun of them," or words to that effect.

When Mr. Maryn was very ill, I remember laughing really hard at a standup comic who had the courage to mock chemo patients' baldness and puking. Never saw the guy again, though.

Maryn, learning

Haggis
04-25-2013, 06:29 AM
Thanks, Chase.

I might have taken offense if Tosh hadn't started with "Deaf people want to be treated like anyone else, which means we make fun of them," or words to that effect.

When Mr. Maryn was very ill, I remember laughing really hard at a standup comic who had the courage to mock chemo patients' baldness and puking. Never saw the guy again, though.

Maryn, learning

I'm with Maryn.

Haggis, learning

Chase
04-25-2013, 06:39 AM
:ty: Maryn and Haggis. This is all fun for me. However, my signs and translations are far out of date and most likely lacking. Katrina and Moth are trained :deaf:terps and know lots more than I do.

:yesway::yesway:

moth
04-26-2013, 01:09 AM
Chase, you're too kind. I envy you. You grew up using ASL and you're deaf yourself. My sign skills are good, but I have no deaf family or history and I do sometimes fall prey to hearing bias. (Not all the time tho :D)

Me, a trained terp? Yes.

Me, rusty in ASL? Also yes.

I can speak and understand ASL conversationally with my deaf friends, but ask me to interpret to/from ASL in a professional capacity and I'll get very nervous. I use CASE (Conceptually Accurate Signed English) professionally because it's what the park district that employs me mandates. It's serviceable for the ballet class, and happily it's not the horror that is SEE 1 or SEE 2 (Signing Exact English) (shudder). But my professional-confidence-level ASL is a good 8 years past. It'd take a while to get it back.

However. I watched the video Maryn posted, several times, with much backing up and re-watching, and I had a whole reply written up last night. And...I didn't have the nerve to post it. I was afraid that what I'd seen was wrong (it's been a looooong time since I've been to a deaf party. Good times tho) or that I'd missed something completely obvious.

I caught the "wrong" and the "think" in the video. But I missed the F you and, well, everything else Chase pointed out. I'm glad I didn't post what I wrote last night, because it would have been lacking.

Don't get me wrong, I'm good at my job. I'm just also out of practice with deaf grown-ups at a party.

The half moon thing made me laugh...I don't know how I'd sign that either. :D

Chase
04-26-2013, 01:44 AM
I missed the F you

Not hard to do. I had to run the video several times, focusing on the hands of each belligerent. They're both fast and fluid.

The guy in the hat signed the f-bomb at 48-49 about the same time the guy in the black sweater signed think. Clearest is Hat's finger-pointing you at the end in the phrase. He's facing away from us, so some of his sign is lost.

:ty: so much for joining in, Moth. I use Signed Exact English (SEE) to teach word order to deaf writers. I also used it as a crutch when my girlfriend was struggling with signs, but she's all ASL now.

:yesway::yesway:

P.S. I don't know a sign for moth, but the sign for butterfly (linked thumbs with fingers out like wings, as when making a rising shadow figure on the wall) is beautiful. You should use it for your deaf name. As you know, a deafie has to bestow it, or has one of your students already named you?

Katrina S. Forest
04-29-2013, 09:06 PM
:ty: Maryn and Haggis. This is all fun for me. However, my signs and translations are far out of date and most likely lacking. Katrina and Moth are trained :deaf:terps and know lots more than I do.

:yesway::yesway:

I'm still an ASL student, actually. Got a ways to go before I could even think of interpreting. (On that topic, I heard back about my class and I don't have to take a test to enter after all. They said since it's been exactly a year, I'd probably be okay. So... :applause: )

Chase
04-29-2013, 09:27 PM
Great news, Katrina. Good luck on continuing your ASL studies.

Happy birthday, Moth. Chase touches the middle tip of the five hand to his lip and then his heart. (Short form of the good birthday wish.)

:yesway::yesway:

Katrina S. Forest
06-25-2013, 11:49 PM
So, I have to ask, has anyone else seen the Star Trek episode, "Loud as a Whisper":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loud_as_a_Whisper

I've been watching TNG on Netflix when nothing else is on and just saw this episode last night. Funny, just like futuristic/alien spoken languages sound remarkably like English, futuristic/alien signed languages look remarkably like ASL.

There's a scene where Picard grabs Riva's face and shouts, "You! Are! Not! Alone!" that made me burst into laughter. Yes, Picard, grabbing someone who's just seen his friends die and getting right in his face will totally calm him down. /sarcasm

Chase
06-26-2013, 08:26 PM
So, I have to ask, has anyone else seen the Star Trek episode, "Loud as a Whisper"?

:ty: for the reference, Katrina. Looks like a fun episode to watch.

I'm an original Trekkie and have the DVDs with subtitles, but I missed The Next Generation in '89. I'll hunt for volume 2, disc 2. Yeah, talking loud:e2Order: to deafies:deaf: helps a lot. :D

atthebeach
05-06-2014, 03:45 AM
Nice to meet other ASL signers! And Chase, nice to meet you! I was active here for a brief stint in 2007, then left to focus on my Ph.D. degree, and finally came back here end of last year- I missed it!

I grew up using ASL (but I'm not Deaf, I am hearing). I started signing when I was five years old, and my Deaf friends taught me ASL growing up. My parents knew no signs themselves, but allowed me to socialize with my Deaf friends as much as I wanted.

I even remember buying my first TTY- it was so expensive! I think I was about 14 or so, and my parents paid for half of it and I paid for half. It was so cool to finally be able to "talk" with my friends from home over the phone line.

And yes, that was soooo long ago- before the internet and texting. :)

On interpreting, I sort of ended up thrown into it, but it ended up being a good thing. I already had to interpret a lot of short things as they came up casually, but I remember the first time I was "asked" to formally interpret- I was about 13 years old, and the interpreter at our church was pregnant and had to go on bed rest. They asked me to sit and do it. In front of a sanctuary filled with 1,500 people. Or something like that- it seemed like 10,000 to me. It was terrifying! But the ASL signers were all my friends, so I did my best and we worked it out. Poor them- my friends as I froze trying to keep up with the preacher :) there just wasn't the certification standards out there as much back then, and while I was great at ASL, interpreting is a whole other skill than just having a conversation (as the terps here know).

Anyway, I enjoyed growing up around the Deaf community. And later I earned interpreter certification, and after lots of education, became an interpreter trainer.

Then, I started teaching ASL at both high school and university settings, and I also earned my doctorate in linguistics (studying mostly ASL).

Now I have fun teaching, writing, and spending time with my family (husband and 3 kids). And, too much time here on AW. It is a great place!

Thanks for bringing in all the ASL smileys Chase and the Mods :applause:

Tom Johnson
05-06-2014, 05:01 AM
I am not deaf or mute, but I have always been fascinated by signing. I wrote a mystery several years back that involved a young boy who was deaf and mute. At the time I couldn't find anyone to offer suggestions so wrote the story anyway. I am sure I got some things wrong, but I had to go with what worked with the mystery of the plot. The story was published in a short story collection, where it remained for the three year contract. But after the end of the contract I put it on Kindle, where it remains. SILENCE OF DEATH. I believe Kindle Prime readers can borrow it for free. I haven't checked Kindle in some time, but I think that's right. Visit my Blog sometime.

cornflake
05-06-2014, 05:11 AM
I am not deaf or mute, but I have always been fascinated by signing. I wrote a mystery several years back that involved a young boy who was deaf and mute. At the time I couldn't find anyone to offer suggestions so wrote the story anyway. I am sure I got some things wrong, but I had to go with what worked with the mystery of the plot. The story was published in a short story collection, where it remained for the three year contract. But after the end of the contract I put it on Kindle, where it remains. SILENCE OF DEATH. I believe Kindle Prime readers can borrow it for free. I haven't checked Kindle in some time, but I think that's right. Visit my Blog sometime.

Just for information's sake, very, very few people are actually mute. The "deaf and dumb," thing of yore was more the result of a lack of speech therapy than an actual inability to speak on the part of the deaf.

I'm not saying it's not possible, goodness knows, but I've personally never run into a Deaf or deaf person who happened to be unable to speak.

There's also the difference between organic or mechanical mutism, selective or elective mutism, and with simply choosing to sign instead of speak.

Deaf people who choose to communicate primarily in sign aren't considered mute.

Tom Johnson
05-06-2014, 05:27 AM
Just for information's sake, very, very few people are actually mute. The "deaf and dumb," thing of yore was more the result of a lack of speech therapy than an actual inability to speak on the part of the deaf.

I'm not saying it's not possible, goodness knows, but I've personally never run into a Deaf or deaf person who happened to be unable to speak.

There's also the difference between organic or mechanical mutism, selective or elective mutism, and with simply choosing to sign instead of speak.

Deaf people who choose to communicate primarily in sign aren't considered mute.

Yes, that was one reason I wanted to find someone who could explain this to me when I wrote the story. One of my characters could speak plainly, which I'm sure would not be the case since they had never heard spoken language, but it was necessary to my plot. I wanted someone to read it who could guide me on this at the time, but alas I found no one interested. I still think the story turned out okay, but wish I had received some help at the time.

Chase
05-06-2014, 09:23 PM
:hi:, Tom and Dr. Atthebeach. :)

My sister (four years older) was born deaf, so when I came along a hearie, I grew up signing and speaking. Besides "talking" with my big sis, the skill came in handy so many times I've lost count.

My sister doesn't speak (except for a few choice names she called me :D), though she has the ability to make sounds. Her training was very "old-school." After twenty-odd years of deteriorating ears, I went from hard-of-hearing (HOH) to deaf 13 years ago. I speak and sign, often at the same time.

I also write mysteries, Tom, and my amateur sleuth protagonist is a late deafie like me.

Nice (slides a down palm over an up palm) to meet (raised index fingers on bumped fists) you both (points to Tom and Doc). A hard part of writing about ASL is it's so much easier to sign than to describe, innit?

atthebeach
05-07-2014, 02:57 AM
Definitely! But you have a great creative way of describing your signs, Chase. Nice to meet you too! Hands waving - oh yeah, there is a smiley for that :)

Here is the applause: :applause:

And thanks too :ty:

Tom Johnson
05-08-2014, 10:04 PM
Same here, Chase. When I was young, preteen to teen, I bought a book on how to Sign, with the intention of learning, but never did. I was fascinated when I would see someone who could talk and hear conversing in Sign in a store, helping someone find what they were looking for, etc. I wanted to be able to do that, and ashamed that I didn't follow through. I took some Spanish and French later, and to be able to Sign would have been an added language for me to learn.

Chase
09-23-2014, 03:13 AM
Deaf Awareness Week is September 22-26, 2014

Deaf Awareness Week this year is September 22-26, 2014. Deaf Awareness Week, also called International Week of the Deaf (IWD), is celebrated annually and ends with International Day of the Deaf. Deaf Awareness Week is celebrated by national and regional associations of the deaf, local communities, and individuals worldwide.

http://www.signingsavvy.com/

The purpose of Deaf Awareness Week is to increase public awareness of deaf issues, people, and culture. Activities and events throughout Deaf Awareness Week encourage individuals to come together as a community for both educational events and celebrations. Find more information on Deaf Awareness Week. -- Jillian Winn

atthebeach
09-25-2014, 05:14 AM
I love it! My students have completed several items for Deaf Awareness Week, including posters around the school. I love seeing both my Deaf and hearing students get excited about this!

Glad you brought it to AW :)