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View Full Version : Whatever you do, don't fecundate this womb.



Said The Sun
08-20-2010, 02:32 AM
If this is posted in the wrong place, please change it to where it is destined. I am a noob and like one, I can't help it.



Fellow men and women of letters,

Please excuse me while I barge in here and cry: Is there a doctor in the house?
I am stuck in a moment. Up to my knees in it. I need some medical/scientific skills to get me through the final chapter of my work in mother-loving progress.

Is there a drug that you can administer secretly to a woman everyday (or not) that can impede her from getting pregnant? With no outrageous side-effects, (though depression is fine) AND does not show up in regular blood tests?

My poor MC. Mais c'est la vie homegirl.


I don't care if you're not nice. Just be smart, and I will cherish you for all of ever.

Please and Thank You,

Sunny

Sage
08-20-2010, 02:42 AM
If this is posted in the wrong place, please change it to where it is destined. I am a noob and like one, I can't help it.
You got it ;)

sunandshadow
08-20-2010, 03:52 AM
A regular birth-control pill, ground up and added to her food, should prevent her from being fertile, and for some women the pill's effects are not very noticeable. What sort of blood test is it? Most blood tests only test for a specific thing or small array of specific things. A gynecologist would order a test of blood hormone levels, but if the woman is not seeing a gynecologist most other blood tests do not examine hormone levels.

thothguard51
08-20-2010, 03:56 AM
Try here.... http://www.birthcontrolpharm.com/

What Is Yaz?

Yaz (Drospirenone/Ethinyl Estradiol) is an oral contraceptive drug that is consumed to prevent pregnancy made from combination of progesterone and estrogen. It prevent ovulation from happening and prevent pregnancy from occurring.

As with all birth control medications, none are 100% guaranteed. There are also side effects with Yaz. More than likely, it would show up in a blood sample...

quicklime
08-20-2010, 04:16 AM
Try here.... http://www.birthcontrolpharm.com/

What Is Yaz?

Yaz (Drospirenone/Ethinyl Estradiol) is an oral contraceptive drug that is consumed to prevent pregnancy made from combination of progesterone and estrogen. It prevent ovulation from happening and prevent pregnancy from occurring.

As with all birth control medications, none are 100% guaranteed. There are also side effects with Yaz. More than likely, it would show up in a blood sample...




they'd have to be looking pretty specifically for it; estrogen is present already and so they'd have to pick up the drospirenone; routine blood tests would not, this would be something they'd have to do by analytical chemistry and they don't routinely go "cataloging" what's in blood. So it COULD be found, but not in any sort of routine bloodwork; someone would have to be looking for it, specifically

JulieHowe
08-20-2010, 04:46 AM
What about Depro-Provera, given every three months via an injection? The only side effect is most (but not all) patients stop having a menstrual cycle. The beauty of this is the way the drug works - the egg never drops, so the body (in untechnical terms) says 'Okay, we're pregnant, so we don't need to drop the egg this month.'

In a fictional setting, a woman could be duped easily into accepting the shot if the person giving the shot told her it was for something else. The minimal sting is similar to the experience I noticed when I had vitamin shots (I think it was vitamin B12) administered via an injection. As far as I know, there's no way this drug could reliably be put into a woman's food or water and administered orally. If you have any bizarrely intimate questions you'd like to ask about Depo-Provera (from a patient's perspective) I'll answer just about anything via a PM (private message) request. Please note I am not a medical professional, but a patient, and one of the first generation of women to take the drug.

Polenth
08-20-2010, 05:00 AM
Birth control pills taste bad. They're sugar coated, but the moment you grind them up... it's the joy of the not-so-yummy filling. Whatever they were hidden in, it'd need to be strongly flavoured.

LoopyLinde
08-20-2010, 05:46 AM
An implant inserted while she's unconscious? I can't remember what they call it. Maybe on her back under the shoulder blade where she wouldn't see it.

Norplant?

Said The Sun
08-20-2010, 06:31 AM
You guys are incredible. Thanks for your help.

I forgot to mention the novel takes place in the late eighties - early nineties, which would exclude any newer forms/brands of contraception.

All these are really good. My initial instinct was a regular birth control pill slipped daily into her meals, but then my male MC would probably just forget to give it to her everyday, or he could have a hard time keeping track when to cease and when to restart. Hes not going to take these kind of chances. He wants something durable, efficient, with effects lasting longer than 24 hours. And there needs to be some extremely devious way for him to implement it.
So ding ding ding: Depro-Provera takes the cake. It has the perfect side-effects: weight changes, headaches, weakness or fatigue, nervousness, and menstrual irregularities. He slips her the injection. A month goes by, then two, and she thinks shes finally pregnant, when in reality its her eggs that arent lowering. Ode to the wonderful world of tragedy and its one million feasibilities.

This is the first thread I ever started (you can tell by my fancy font) and I thought everyone would just ignore it. Your help was precise. Thanks for saving me from desperation.

Said The Sun
08-20-2010, 06:33 AM
they'd have to be looking pretty specifically for it; estrogen is present already and so they'd have to pick up the drospirenone; routine blood tests would not, this would be something they'd have to do by analytical chemistry and they don't routinely go "cataloging" what's in blood. So it COULD be found, but not in any sort of routine bloodwork; someone would have to be looking for it, specifically


In this case, the doctor is a gene specialist and is looking specifically at her genes (for the reason that they might be related.) So now Im wondering if its plausible that maybe he didnt test her blood for chemicals but merely analyzed its genetic genealogy. Or focused only on the gene pattern (please note, Ive no idea what Im talking about) But I mean, if I open my fridge looking for a beer, chances are I might completely overlook the sliced ham sitting right next to it, right?

OneWriter
08-20-2010, 06:43 AM
In this case, the doctor is a gene specialist and is looking specifically at her genes (for the reason that they might be related.) So now I’m wondering if it’s plausible that maybe he didn’t test her blood for chemicals but merely analyzed its genetic genealogy. Or focused only on the gene pattern (please note, I’ve no idea what I’m talking about) But I mean, if I open my fridge looking for a beer, chances are I might completely overlook the sliced ham sitting right next to it, right?

What would Doc be testing for? If he/she's testing for infertility, of course they would be doing bloodwork. That's the first thing they check: hormonal level. But if the girl has been taking the pill or similar her hormonal level would be off, except neither Doc nor patient would know they're be off because of the drugs...
Mind you, "look at her genes" is a veeeery vague statement...

ETA: also, people don't "look at genes" when testing for infertility. You didn't say why she would be seeing the gene specialist, so I made that assumption, but maybe you should tell us why the girl would go see the gene specialist? Then I can tell you what Doc would be testing.

JulieHowe
08-20-2010, 07:38 AM
You guys are incredible. Thanks for your help.

I forgot to mention the novel takes place in the late eighties - early nineties, which would exclude any newer forms/brands of contraception.

All these are really good. My initial instinct was a regular birth control pill slipped daily into her meals, but then my male MC would probably just forget to give it to her everyday, or he could have a hard time keeping track when to cease and when to restart. Hes not going to take these kind of chances. He wants something durable, efficient, with effects lasting longer than 24 hours. And there needs to be some extremely devious way for him to implement it.
So ding ding ding: Depro-Provera takes the cake. It has the perfect side-effects: weight changes, headaches, weakness or fatigue, nervousness, and menstrual irregularities. He slips her the injection. A month goes by, then two, and she thinks shes finally pregnant, when in reality its her eggs that arent lowering. Ode to the wonderful world of tragedy and its one million feasibilities.

This is the first thread I ever started (you can tell by my fancy font) and I thought everyone would just ignore it. Your help was precise. Thanks for saving me from desperation.

:)

backslashbaby
08-20-2010, 07:40 AM
There is an ulcer medication that pregnant women can't take because it is so abortive. In case you want one that would pass testing for birth control pills. It is common in Latin America as a very effective abortive (on purpose -- within 24 hrs or so the girl will have a miscarriage).

Definitely no outrageous side effects, and you wouldn't have to take it every day

http://danagoldstein.typepad.com/dana_goldstein/2009/01/new-studies-find-use-of-ulcer-drugs-to-induce-abortion.html.

eta: well, the horrible side effects mentioned in that article aren't common, except obviously bleeding. Not something a girl should risk, though (I'm at a loss for how to not sound like I'm promoting this!)

Kenra Daniels
08-20-2010, 03:07 PM
Wouldn't a geneticist be looking at buccal cell samples rather than blood any way?
I don't know this for certain, but would assume so, since it's the type of sample I've read and heard of being taken.

Said The Sun
08-20-2010, 04:15 PM
What would Doc be testing for? If he/she's testing for infertility, of course they would be doing bloodwork. That's the first thing they check: hormonal level. But if the girl has been taking the pill or similar her hormonal level would be off, except neither Doc nor patient would know they're be off because of the drugs...
Mind you, "look at her genes" is a veeeery vague statement...

ETA: also, people don't "look at genes" when testing for infertility. You didn't say why she would be seeing the gene specialist, so I made that assumption, but maybe you should tell us why the girl would go see the gene specialist? Then I can tell you what Doc would be testing.


I know. I'm sorry for being so vague. This wasnt even supposed to happen in the novel, hence my ambiguity. It just struck me as an awesome detail to include in the many tragedies of my MC. So basically, she is having some setbacks with conceiving. She is NOT infertile. However, shes had two miscarriages so far, so shes kind of desperate to find out why. Given that she and her husband are related (second cousins) shes wondering if its because of this that shes having so many issues. Someone close to her, probably not with the best intentions, tells her to see this doctor because hes said to be good with genes; he lectures at the local university about genealogy and its advances in science (the actual DNA breakthrough was set during these years) other than that hes just your regular family doctor with a fancy for genes.

Said The Sun
08-20-2010, 04:16 PM
Wouldn't a geneticist be looking at buccal cell samples rather than blood any way?
I don't know this for certain, but would assume so, since it's the type of sample I've read and heard of being taken.



I was wondering about this too. Again, I possess no medical skills at all and admire whoever does. I just assumed hed be doing blood work on the both of them. So he shouldnt be looking at their blood at all? Because a priori, hes not presuming the problem is genetic, (its just her fear and assumption) so hes just doing what any regular doctor would do.
If Im permitted to ask another question; would he be examining eggs and sperm too?

Said The Sun
08-20-2010, 04:17 PM
There is an ulcer medication that pregnant women can't take because it is so abortive. In case you want one that would pass testing for birth control pills. It is common in Latin America as a very effective abortive (on purpose -- within 24 hrs or so the girl will have a miscarriage).

Definitely no outrageous side effects, and you wouldn't have to take it every day

http://danagoldstein.typepad.com/dana_goldstein/2009/01/new-studies-find-use-of-ulcer-drugs-to-induce-abortion.html.

eta: well, the horrible side effects mentioned in that article aren't common, except obviously bleeding. Not something a girl should risk, though (I'm at a loss for how to not sound like I'm promoting this!)



Oh my Hell. This is pretty awesome. Definitely, something Ill sit and think about for a while. In this case, I was going for something a little less dramatic, something that would impede her from impregnating, versus an actual forced abortion. But thanks, if I can't go with the latter, Ill just have to get bloody and barbarous. hehe

OneWriter
08-20-2010, 05:01 PM
I know. I'm sorry for being so vague. This wasnt even supposed to happen in the novel, hence my ambiguity. It just struck me as an awesome detail to include in the many tragedies of my MC. So basically, she is having some setbacks with conceiving. She is NOT infertile. However, shes had two miscarriages so far, so shes kind of desperate to find out why. Given that she and her husband are related (second cousins) shes wondering if its because of this that shes having so many issues. Someone close to her, probably not with the best intentions, tells her to see this doctor because hes said to be good with genes; he lectures at the local university about genealogy and its advances in science (the actual DNA breakthrough was set during these years) other than that hes just your regular family doctor with a fancy for genes.

Mhm... by regular doctor you mean family doctor? You need something more than that. You need somebody that works at a University and has a lab. You don't "fancy" genes. This kind of research is very expensive! You need grant money and sophisticated lab equipment. If it's genealogy she's concerned about, she can just send a sample to e genetic company and for a few thousand dollars they will type it.
For recurrent miscarriages one goes see a gynecologist who will order a battery of tests (http://www.infertilityspecialist.com/recurrent_pregnancy_%20loss.htm), and even though it is possible there are underlying genetic causes, I doubt they would order genetic tests. As far as I know, a genetic link would have to be found and published and I have never heard that it was. It's too complicated. It could go the other way around though, that she does have an underlying genetic disorder and that causes the miscarriages. But she would have to suspect the genetic disease first and see a genetic specialist because of the disease. If you go to a gynecologist they will NOT order a genetic test. I hope I've been clear, let me know if you have more questions.

SaraP
08-20-2010, 05:07 PM
From all the posts on here, I think you need to clarify first exactly what your male mc wants.

If the woman is going to appointments to test for infertility, the doctor is looking for specific things, not just "regular blood tests". They check for hormone levels, among other things, and how they vary throughout the cycle, which means several trips to the docs and several blood tests. Even if she was on a (hidden) birth control pill, I'm sure the effects would show up. The doctor might assume they're from her own body, instead of a drug, and would have her take meds to counteract the effects. How that would play out might be interesting, but those meds tend to be pretty strong.

As far as other tests go, they tend to look at sperm, because it's easy to do so. Ova, not as much. Remember that there's a lot that can go wrong with sperm, such as quantity and motility, that affect a couple's fertility, while the same is not so true for ova. When it comes to related family members, I think they would look for similarities between the DNA of both prospective parents, instead of looking for particular genes. There are way too many known/unknown genes to look at individually. Unless there's a risk for a particular disease, I don't believe docs check for individual genes.

Regarding abortive drugs, you basically have two, as far as I know. The ulcer drug backlashbaby mentions, misoprostol, is used for abortive purposes (and as an induction drug) in more places that just South America. Portugal is a good example, sanctioned by the OBGYN medical community. I know of people for whom it has no effect though, because the abortive effects were discovered fairly late in the human trials. It is a secondary effect of the drug, and like other secondary effects, it doesn't appear on everyone. Also, when it does work, it's pretty painful. And for some people, you have the pain and no miscarriage/abortion.

The other drug is mifepristone, known as the day-after pill. It is used as an emergency contraceptive and has a fairly limited time frame for when it can be used (something like 24h after unprotected sex?). I also believe it can't be used often, like a few days in a row.

So. I know this isn't helping any. Like I said in the beginning, you need to know exactly why the male mc doesn't want his wife preggers. Did he cause the miscarriages? Is it possible she can't conceive anyway, regardless of what he's doing about it?

Said The Sun
08-20-2010, 06:12 PM
Like I said in the beginning, you need to know exactly why the male mc doesn't want his wife preggers. Did he cause the miscarriages? Is it possible she can't conceive anyway, regardless of what he's doing about it?

Ahh, Sara! From one Portuguesa to another: Obrigadinha!
Se no for muito chato, vou mandar-te uma mensagem privada a respeito dos testes feitos em Portugal, dado que esta histria se passa na nossa querida Lisboa!

Yes, our male MC does NOT want her to on any circumstance impregnate. The prior miscarriages werent directly his fault, (the problem is truly in their genes and the fact they're related.) HE suspects this from the very onset, because he knows more about the family than she does. And because he can't reveal these family secrets, and as a result drive her away, and he also doesnt want her to go through the drama of miscarrying again, he resorts to this drastic approach; keeping her secretly from impregnating through a drug.

OneWriter, I will private message you on the gene situation, if you don't mind.

Thanks everybody for absolutely not fecundating this womb.

Happy Friday

SouthernFriedJulie
08-20-2010, 07:20 PM
I had Norplant in the early 90's, so it could be placed under the skin if your MC was drugged.

At the time they placed it under the skin of your upper arm. You were supposed to not notice it, but I did. Had a lot of scar tissue build up around it- plus back then Norplant was 5 sticks, about 1 1/2 inches long. Flexible, but still stiff. Your MC would probably notice it, unless you had the nerves to this area cut. I can't feel anything where my C-section scars are due to the nerves being cut. Maybe slip the Norplant under an older scar or much deeper than traditional use?

Also, Pennyroyal tea will cause early pregnancy termination. It's a well known herbal choice. It has been used for centuries by women to avoid pregnancy AND by men that wished to secretly keep their mistresses barren. NOT the oil...your MC would die a horrible death and so would any woman reading the book that got an idea to try it. You know, no matter what we writer, someone - somewhere...will try out the idea.


From Medhunters: http://www.medhunters.com/articles/historyOfFemaleContraception.html
M
uch of the information that these "wise women" knew has been lost over time – the information was taboo by most religious standards, and history and medical books were written by men, who were not as interested in "women's problems." But because of this lost information about herbal contraceptives, modern accidents have happened. For instance, pregnant women drinking pennyroyal tea may unwittingly miscarry. In one of Aristophanes' Ancient Greek comedies, Hermes advises the hero to "add a dose of pennyroyal" to keep his mistress out of trouble. Other herbs that have been taken to prevent or abort pregnancy include willow leaves, colocynth, and yarrow.

backslashbaby
08-20-2010, 07:47 PM
I was thinking, with the ulcer-med abortive drug, could he give it to her early on and around her time of the month? So she'd just think she had horrible period cramps. He could do it every month.

I didn't know they used it in Europe. How interesting!

I'm just brainstorming. I'd just heard stories of this drug and it came to mind :)

ladyleeona
08-20-2010, 09:38 PM
Although I'm not sure this was around in the 80's, and I'm not sure it's used on humans (although knowingly preventing an unsuspecting person from becoming preggers is not quite ethical, so I don't know if cross-species medication is out), but there are injections that prevent the sperm from binding to the zona pellucida (place on egg where sperm attaches/is absorbed) and prevent pregnancy.

And it's quite long term, at least in the animals it has been administered to (12-36 months, in some cases) and it wouldn't prevent menstruation, so everything would seem normal to the victi...erm, patient.

I can go into more deets, but it's gets nastily technical. PM if you still want them.

ladylilchubb, suggesting veterinary practices on people. Hello, malpractice suit.

ETA: Not sure how or if it would show up in blood tests, but I could find out really easily. [Cuz now I'm wondering it myself.]
ETA[Again]: Just found a journal of reproduction & fertility research paper from 1988 describing this, so the timeframe could be appropriate. The study was done in the UK and, although I just read the summary, it is talking about using it in people. interesting....

SaraP
08-20-2010, 09:53 PM
Yes, our male MC does NOT want her to on any circumstance impregnate. The prior miscarriages werent directly his fault, (the problem is truly in their genes and the fact they're related.) HE suspects this from the very onset, because he knows more about the family than she does. And because he can't reveal these family secrets, and as a result drive her away, and he also doesnt want her to go through the drama of miscarrying again, he resorts to this drastic approach; keeping her secretly from impregnating through a drug.

If there is a genetic problem and she does miscarriage when she gets pregnant, why is he taking measures to stop her from getting preggers at all?

Said The Sun
08-20-2010, 09:54 PM
Check your PMs, Sara ;)

Tsu Dho Nimh
08-20-2010, 10:16 PM
Is there a drug that you can administer secretly to a woman everyday (or not) that can impede her from getting pregnant?

Crush birth control pills into her food or drink - they have no particular color or flavor she would notice.

Polenth
08-21-2010, 02:11 AM
It's unlikely that she's miscarrying because her partner is her cousin (even if he was her brother, it's still unlikely). Severe inbreeding depression is unusual in humans and would require the family to inbreed for many generations.

It might be you've researched a specific condition that cause issues. It might be they have been secretly inbreeding for generations for some reason. But if you're relying on general inbreeding depression problems, and this is the first generation who've inbreed, someone's going to call you on the science at some point.

Canotila
08-21-2010, 04:23 AM
Although I'm not sure this was around in the 80's, and I'm not sure it's used on humans (although knowingly preventing an unsuspecting person from becoming preggers is not quite ethical, so I don't know if cross-species medication is out), but there are injections that prevent the sperm from binding to the zona pellucida (place on egg where sperm attaches/is absorbed) and prevent pregnancy.

And it's quite long term, at least in the animals it has been administered to (12-36 months, in some cases) and it wouldn't prevent menstruation, so everything would seem normal to the victi...erm, patient.

I can go into more deets, but it's gets nastily technical. PM if you still want them.

ladylilchubb, suggesting veterinary practices on people. Hello, malpractice suit.

ETA: Not sure how or if it would show up in blood tests, but I could find out really easily. [Cuz now I'm wondering it myself.]
ETA[Again]: Just found a journal of reproduction & fertility research paper from 1988 describing this, so the timeframe could be appropriate. The study was done in the UK and, although I just read the summary, it is talking about using it in people. interesting....

If that's the drug that was used for dog birth control, you can't get it in America any more. The side effects were too bad. One of the worst was the bitch would get pyometra during her first heat cycle after ceasing the drug (puss filled uterus) unless she was bred for that cycle. I hate to think what effects it might have on humans.

ladyleeona
08-22-2010, 12:28 AM
If that's the drug that was used for dog birth control, you can't get it in America any more. The side effects were too bad. One of the worst was the bitch would get pyometra during her first heat cycle after ceasing the drug (puss filled uterus) unless she was bred for that cycle. I hate to think what effects it might have on humans.

I don't know what was used for dog BC, but this (PZP) is still used widely in exotic game herds (and some carnivore population management) here in the U.S. It's manufactured in the US too (someplace in Montana, I believe.) In fact, one of the wildlife centers just down the road from me (Fossil Rim) is using it currently on a giraffe that is too small to breed, and it's working quite well.

So I kinda doubt it was what was used on those dogs. And with side effects like what you've described, I have no trouble believing whatever it was ended up banned--yuck. Not good. Not good at all.

JemmaP
08-27-2010, 08:36 AM
This might just sound dumb, but why doesn't he just get a vasectomy? He could say he's going for a business trip, snip snip, problem solved. That'd be the responsible way to do it. Risking the health of a woman he cares about by drugging her is a really awful thing to do - unless he morphs into an antagonist it would be really hard to get over, IMO.

Smiling Ted
08-28-2010, 05:53 AM
A couple of things.

First of all, if you really want to get technical about this - why not ask your doctor, instead of us forum folk? This is one of those direct, technical questions that benefits from first-hand info, not second-hand.

Second, there are compounded hormones that can be absorbed through the skin. If your MC's bad guy injected them into her cosmetics or hand cream...