Piracy Solutions: Ideas and What Is Being Done Already.

thehairymob

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As suggested By another member (VeinGlory), I thought I should start a conversation looking at solutions to the big P word. So to kick off, what do you think of traffic shaping measures? I mean as proposed by FACT, where they are looking at slowing downloads and connection speeds of those sites known to contain pirate software and other materials. Also to tackle the larger downloaders, yet ignore the odd time downloaders.
 

veinglory

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I don't really think we should mess with net neutrality. It seems to me the options are to make laws that encompass the whole problem, and to enforce laws.

***Edited to add: And social engineering/public messaging against pirating that is less naff than what the FBI does.

The single most helpful immediate thing to do IMHO is to work in groups like: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AuthorsAgainstE-BookTheft/ With enough members at least you can shut down pirates on law abiding sites (e.g. ebay, twitter) fairly quickly.
 
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As suggested By another member (VeinGlory), I thought I should start a conversation looking at solutions to the big P word. So to kick off, what do you think of traffic shaping measures? I mean as proposed by FACT, where they are looking at slowing downloads and connection speeds of those sites known to contain pirate software and other materials. Also to tackle the larger downloaders, yet ignore the odd time downloaders.

The throttle solutions are not very bright; this is the solution used especially by cable ISPs.

The packet sniffing solutions are marginally "better" but are expensive. (Very expensive; you need to buy special hardware, and subscribe to a constantly updated database with information about what specific files look like, even when they are encrypted or compressed).

The site blocking solutions are a problem for me--and I'm in a losing minority here--because they assume that all bittorrent traffic, for example, is bad.

And there are legitimate reasons for bit torrents too.

The technology does actually work; but it stifles conversation/the market. Like DRM, it ultimately punishes the innocent, even if it may be marginally effective.

I'd rather work on the ethical issues. I'd rather convince people who are not pathologically dedicated to crime that there are better alternatives, and that what they are doing is wrong.

I do think that most people do not, for instance, steal at a grocery store less because of fear than because of personal beliefs.

I'd like to get to that kind of society with digital theft as well.
 

thehairymob

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But how will we tackle illegal sites or sites in other countries where the law is not as clear? Some form of traffic shaping is needed in these case I feel. I also like the idea of tackling the worst offenders yet not criminalizing the odd infringer, the one that might get a copy of a song from a friend now and then.
 

Deleted member 42

The single most helpful immediate thing to do IMHO is to work in groups like: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AuthorsAgainstE-BookTheft/ With enough members at least you can shut down pirates on law abiding sites (e.g. ebay, twitter) fairly quickly.

I really have been very successful by releasing sample texts with a link on torrents, and by just requesting that specific authors works not be pirated because there's a legitimate, reasonably priced, and correct version available here.

I'd also really like it--and I'm dreaming here--if I could get readers to not think that the book is the container, the bound object, but that it is the thing inside the container.

It cost the author just as much time and effort to create the words on the printed page as those on the flickering screen.
 

veinglory

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But how will we tackle illegal sites or sites in other countries where the law is not as clear? Some form of traffic shaping is needed in these case I feel. I also like the idea of tackling the worst offenders yet not criminalizing the odd infringer, the one that might get a copy of a song from a friend now and then.

I have no faith that traffic shaping would be an overall constructive approach, anymore than DRM is now.

It seems to me that people in countries without relevant laws are not a big part of the problem. People in countries that have laws need to be detected and gently reminded to abide by them. Followed by being prosecuted.

But at the same time I don't want annoy my readers including low level pirates who give into tempations occassionally, but not habitually.

One thing I think is needed is file marking to detect and cut off people who share either ARCs or bought copies.

One interesting approach was to mark the copy with the recipients name.
 

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One of the companies I've been buying ebooks from since 2000, first as peanut press, and then as ereader.com, a company/site now owned by Barnes and Noble--

They use my name and my credit card as an unlock code.

I'm free to give the book to someone I'm OK with giving my credit card # to.

Which means you can share within a family, for instance.

I can read the books I've bought on Windows, Mac, Palm iPhone, and iPad, as well as other cell phones.

Now, sure, I'd rather no DRM at all, but this has been surprisingly painless. And the books I bought ten years ago still work just fine.
 

benbradley

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I have at best mixed feelings about technological solutions, as it's not a technological problem. Long rant short, technological fixes are band-aids. The problem is the lack of respect for intellectual property, and that's a sociological problem.
 

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I have at best mixed feelings about technological solutions, as it's not a technological problem. Long rant short, technological fixes are band-aids. The problem is the lack of respect for intellectual property, and that's a sociological problem.

This.
 

thehairymob

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Interesting idea Medi but hackers usually find ways around such things. That is why I think DRM is more of problem for the legit users than those that aren't. Though at the same time, I do think that we need to look at the problem on differing levels. Those downloading for profit should face some sort of real punishment but I can't say the same for the casual sharer. And if traffic shaping is aimed at the site carrying illegal downloads, until they can be closed down then I have no problem with it.
 

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I have at best mixed feelings about technological solutions, as it's not a technological problem. Long rant short, technological fixes are band-aids. The problem is the lack of respect for intellectual property, and that's a sociological problem.


Yep.
 

Maxinquaye

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Traffic shaping won't really be used for piracy enformcement. That's probably not why it is considered in say the Verizon and Google deal. Traffic shaping will most likely be used to segment the net in favour of those who pay most for bandwidth on the net.
 

veinglory

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Except that sociological problems are mostly caused by the environment, not the natural virtue of all people. People break laws, when they want something, when it is easy, and when they won't get caught or punished. As for speeding, littering, drinking age etc...also for pirating.

With all of these thing ease of access, and likelihood and intensitiy of punishment, is what controls behavior. Peer pressure is an aggravating but not a controlling factor in most cases.

In any case, making crime harder and less gratifying is easier than making more people rigidly law abiding. You might be able to make more people see piracy as a serious crime they are less likely to commit (as was done with drunk driving, or shaking a baby)... but that is no easy task.
 

Deleted member 42

Traffic shaping won't really be used for piracy enformcement. That's probably not why it is considered in say the Verizon and Google deal. Traffic shaping will most likely be used to segment the net in favour of those who pay most for bandwidth on the net.

Traffic shaping is now and has been used for piracy prevention for more than ten years.

It works.

It's not all that hackable either without engaging in social engineering; you can completely control access, and even just turn off all traffic to a particular node. On a stable network, your users won't even notice.

Internet II has built-in ways of doing this. It's part of the underlying rationale for Internet II, to privilege research data over consumer data.
 

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Interesting idea Medi but hackers usually find ways around such things.

They haven't yet.

Packet sniffing, traffic shaping and throttling are all standard practices, and have been since I first started server side work in 2000, where they'd already been using the technologies for a couple of years.

If you have a cable modem or dsl modem, it's been part of the network from day one.
 

thehairymob

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Changing peoples idea of right and wrong take time. Educating people through ads is one way as well as teaching kids in school. Though it won't work on its own, making it harder to commit the crime and enforcing the law also has to be in the mix.
 

veinglory

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In my experience the educating hasn't been working well either. I have noticed that some romance readers blogs (and comments) reflect an irritation with authors 'going on' about piracy.
 

veinglory

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Traffic shaping is now and has been used for piracy prevention for more than ten years.

It works.

So why is it not used against sites like Astatalk or 4shared? Or if it is used why is it not very effective there?

(This is an area I know nothing about).
 

thehairymob

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They haven't yet.

Packet sniffing, traffic shaping and throttling are all standard practices, and have been since I first started server side work in 2000, where they'd already been using the technologies for a couple of years.

If you have a cable modem or dsl modem, it's been part of the network from day one.

Yes I've noticed it when my son got into streaming Anime to his computer, I found after a bit that when I tried to get online I was a lot slower. In the end I had to restrict how much he could stream and then my daughter got in on the act, so she got the same restrictions.
 

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In my experience the educating hasn't been working well either. I have noticed that some romance readers blogs (and comments) reflect an irritation with authors 'going on' about piracy.

It only works in specific circumstances; as in a particular campus--and only if you can curtail abusive users.

There are still some users who think if it's on the 'net it's free, but that's a dwindling minority.

For the population at large, the adult casual "I'll download it before I buy it" types, education isn't the issue.

I think if we looked at better technological use practices and education at the high school level, we might see an effect in ten years or so.

But I'm honestly scared about net neutrality now. Over and over again, in the testimony, I'm seeing both sides of the issue being frustrated by warez and file trading, and malware.
 

Deleted member 42

So why is it not used against sites like Astatalk or 4shared? Or if it is used why is it not very effective there?

(This is an area I know nothing about).

Because you need to have control of the router in question.

Let's say you run Veinglory U.

You can control data coming in or out of your network. If you've got money, you can fine tune the control in a number of ways, legally, safely and efficiently.

But controlling someone else's network isn't possible.
 

defyalllogic

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is the bigger problem the crackers/up-loaders or the downloaders?

if it is made harder to free then it will be harder and not worth the hassle for downloaders. if you can't find a decent copy of the thing you're looking for, you might go out and buy it.

if you're facing prison time for theft rather then community service or nothing because you're on mars and rules don't apply there, then you might be less likely to brag/share that you're the source and not go viral with your cracking? (long way of saying harsher punishments at the source)

also on a malicious note. would be be awful for companies, authors, who ever to upload viruses under the name of the thing they want to protect from theft...? (thought of it after reading the entrapment vs. undercover thread.)
 

veinglory

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On thing that keeps it under control (somewhat) is that the more unrestricted file-sharing sites are rife with malware.