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View Full Version : Curious - how many rejections did you get before



Roly
08-12-2010, 12:55 AM
1) Signing with an agent

2) Signing with an editor/publisher (for those of you with book deals)

If you're okay with sharing (if not you can always...round? lol)

Calla Lily
08-12-2010, 03:43 AM
1) Approx. 185
2) Approx 8

inkspatters
08-12-2010, 02:47 PM
Easily over a hundred for the agent search -- I'm not rounding, I can't give the exact number because over the course of two books widely queried I kinda just lost track, haha. A lot of the "rejections" were no response means no, though. So I've probably only "received" like sixty rejections.

Editor rejections I don't know yet.

Miss Plum
08-14-2010, 12:29 AM
Within about 20 queries, someone I liked asked to see my materials.

Then they fell into a hole, so I kept querying. Five months passed and I finally got an offer from another agent. I nudged the first agent and THEY offered me rep, and I accepted.

Queries sent during those five excruciating months? ~380. You read that right.

So it's kind of a tossup how many queries I had to send before I was offered rep. The agent I eventually went with happened within 20, but it took another 360 to find someone I could use to nudge him with.

Peggy Blair
08-14-2010, 12:47 AM
Well over 150 before I got my first offer of representation. (I turned it down with some trepidation, as it was a good agent but not the right 'fit.' Now several agents have it, and I've received a couple more.)

Still waiting on a publisher. I have a blog that sets out the various trials and tribulations of all of this - please feel free to check it out. www.peggyblair.wordpress.com (http://www.peggyblair.wordpress.com)

honeysock
08-14-2010, 05:55 PM
Congratulations Miss Plum! Very exciting! Your query number has me inspired. I stopped counting at 100. I've also, due to several revise and resubmits--one of which was an exclusive--had long lapses of not sending queries.

So here's another question (for everyone): how long, from first query sent to signing, was the agent-hunting journey?


ETA: lily, your cover on the cover is lovely, and that picture is the cutest ever.
ETA#2: In response to blacbird: I was querying a not-cozy foodie mystery for 9 months; am not currently querying; have not signed with an agent; am currently on sub to *one* major publisher (yes, through an agent--don't ask).

I'm guessing I'll probably be back in query hell in about two weeks.

Jamesaritchie
08-14-2010, 07:31 PM
1. No rejections.

2. No rejections.

Miss Plum
08-14-2010, 07:54 PM
Congratulations Miss Plum! Very exciting! Your query number has me inspired. I stopped counting at 100. I've also, due to several revise and resubmits--one of which was an exclusive--had long lapses of not sending queries.

So here's another question (for everyone): how long, from first query sent to signing, was the agent-hunting journey?

Thanks, honeysock. I have a quirky project, and I knew (as I often say on the Daily Rejection thread) that I'd have to go to Infinity and beyond to obtain rep.

Total journey = five months.

wyntermoon
08-14-2010, 09:45 PM
1: Six. Two agents asked for proposals within minutes of sending the query. One decided it wasn't for her but was going to pass it along to another agent-mate and the other called me the next day with an offer. We clicked immediately and have been fighting the good fight ever since. :) Total time querying: less than six weeks.

2: Still counting (over 15 so far)

kaitiepaige17
08-14-2010, 09:48 PM
The first book I queried I was asked to see more material after only 2 rejections. Stupid me, though, had no idea how to write/edit a book at the time, so it didn't matter anyway :)

blacbird
08-14-2010, 11:31 PM
This discussion would be more interesting and informative if we knew what sort of books made the grade in what time frame/no. of submissions. Fantasy? SF? Romance? Literary?

Miss Plum
08-14-2010, 11:47 PM
blacbird --
Graphic Novel here. It was hard to find an agent because while I have a complete script, I am not the artist and I have only sample artwork.

shinta
08-15-2010, 12:08 AM
Literary fiction.

Last year. First book. Five months to find an agent. Multiple offers. Ironically enough, picked the wrong agent for me. She submitted the book to a few editors and then disappeared. Terminated that relationship mid-submission.

This year. Second book. Three months to find representation. Accepted offer from dream agent. Currently a week into submission.

stormie
08-15-2010, 12:11 AM
In answer to the OP's questions:

#1--about twenty rejections over the course of eight months, but several requested partials or fulls. The agent I signed with read the partial and the full within a week and offered representation.

#2--zero. The book (MG novel) died a tragic death.

YAwriter72
08-15-2010, 12:39 AM
First book - 17 queries, 7 R's, 5 fulls requests. Accepted first offer. (Took about a month total) Left that agent after 1 1/2 years.

Second/Third book (I queried either depending on the agents taste)- 24 queries, 12 R's, 3 full requests, 3 offers of rep. (Took about 3 weeks total)

Agent has been shopping signed novel for about 5 months.

I write YA.

COchick
08-15-2010, 12:51 AM
Let's see...book #1 is women's fiction.

1. 37 rejections before an offer came. But I sent out 75 queries. The rest? No response. I was querying for about 2 months before the offer came in.

2. My agent has been rejected by 13 or 14 publishers so far...so we're still counting.

Cricket18
08-15-2010, 12:57 AM
YA Paranormal

6 months and approx. 115 queries to get my agent. Although...she asked for the full 4 months in. As I continued to query, she asked for a R/R which I did. She read and signed me 10 days later.

Still on submission: Approx. 2 months. 13 passes so far.

Calla Lily
08-15-2010, 01:00 AM
blacbird:

1) I was querying 3 books at the same time: A PR, a mystery, and a dark fantasy. I had fulls out on all 3, and also many non-responses on all 3, all over the course of about a year.

2) The mystery is what got me the agent and sold in 6 months.

honeysock
08-15-2010, 01:40 AM
1. No rejections.

2. No rejections.

You're not making any friends here, Mr. Ritchie. : )

Jamesaritchie
08-15-2010, 02:33 AM
You're not making any friends here, Mr. Ritchie. : )

If it's any consolation, I have received, oh, three hundred or so rejections on short stories and articles during the last thirty years.

rosiecotton
08-15-2010, 03:49 AM
1. Signed last week with an agent after 12 weeks of querying a YA fantasy. Yay! Collected 34 Rs (including a handful of Rs on partials and fulls). The 12 weeks includes a month of rewrites for my 'now' agent.

(I can't bring myself to add the Rs I've collected over the 13/14 years I've been writing and submitting novels. Far too depressing. But then most of my early novels were beyond crap, so the Rs were more than deserved.)

2. I've got submissions to look forward to. Yikes!

kaitiepaige17
08-15-2010, 04:03 AM
Mine was a YA contemp. romance

inkspatters
08-15-2010, 08:52 AM
Mine turned out to be a YA literary, something I've discovered during the course of querying and the sub process, but I was pitching it as contemporary YA. I was also half-heartedly querying a YA UF.

Also, kinda like Miss Plum in that one of the agents who offered was the second to get requested materials and amongst the first ten I queried (I didn't strictly query her, she read some of my work on my blog and requested), the other who offered was in the first twenty and the third offer came from one of the agents whom I'd queried a bit later :)

I had a lot of requests for fulls and partials -- seventeen requests for fulls, fourteen for partials, and a couple of R&Rs. But only two agents saw the final/revised manuscript, and they both offered.

Peggy Blair
08-16-2010, 03:03 AM
I ran into an agent at Harrogate (Theakston's Old Peculiar Crime Writing Festival: excellent spot, btw, to meet agents, if you happen to be in the U.K.) who said that it's really hard to place things right now.

There's something called Bookscan that allows publishers to track how many books an author has sold previously, and that's shutting down a lot of even previously published authors. Slightly easier to get a debut author's work placed because that track record doesn't exist, but after the first one, if it doesn't do well, he says you're 'pooched.'

I have the feeling that in these markets, finding a publisher is going to be as tortured as finding an agent ...

myrmidon
08-16-2010, 05:09 AM
1. It's either 0 rejections or 8 rejections, depending on how you want to count it. A major revision and more than a year separate the first 8 rejections from offers from two of the three places I sent the new draft to. Place three hadn't gotten to it when I got the offers, but I like to imagine he would have wanted it too. :)

2. Been out on sub for 4 weeks, and have gotten 6 passes, though one made it to the acquisitions board before getting shut down and one made it to I guess the equivalent of the editorial board (?) before getting passed on. One major house still has it, but my agent and I are trying to figure out whether to revise based on feedback or to sub wider.

Oh, it's YA, with a superhero element.

Jamesaritchie
08-16-2010, 05:29 AM
I ran into an agent at Harrogate (Theakston's Old Peculiar Crime Writing Festival: excellent spot, btw, to meet agents, if you happen to be in the U.K.) who said that it's really hard to place things right now.

There's something called Bookscan that allows publishers to track how many books an author has sold previously, and that's shutting down a lot of even previously published authors. Slightly easier to get a debut author's work placed because that track record doesn't exist, but after the first one, if it doesn't do well, he says you're 'pooched.'

I have the feeling that in these markets, finding a publisher is going to be as tortured as finding an agent ...


Nah, you'll get at least three chances, not just one. Bookscan has been around a long time now, and we're all still going.

wyntermoon
08-16-2010, 10:06 PM
This discussion would be more interesting and informative if we knew what sort of books made the grade in what time frame/no. of submissions. Fantasy? SF? Romance? Literary?

Humor proposal. :)

cagedrobin
08-17-2010, 08:16 PM
21 agent queries
12 requests (full or partial)
5 offers for rep--

Book on sub for a whole year.
No sale.

Blah.
Something done gone wrong.

Miss Plum
08-17-2010, 08:25 PM
Wow, cagedrobin. Think it's maybe the agent? Query stats like that suggest that your writing is pretty damn great.

cagedrobin
08-17-2010, 10:18 PM
Awww. Plum. I love you.

I had a good premise, one that seemed to be marketable. Commercial isn't exactly what I am, even though my agent says he adores me.

Jamesaritchie
08-18-2010, 04:29 AM
Wow, cagedrobin. Think it's maybe the agent? Query stats like that suggest that your writing is pretty damn great.

Agents don't reject manuscripts, and they can't buy them. All the best agent can do is show the manuscript to an editor.

Query stats mean you have a good query letter. Rejection stats form publishers mean there's something wrong with the manuscript, even if it's just a marketability issue.

Miss Plum
08-18-2010, 05:06 AM
james, but 5 offers of rep. Off 21 queries. That goes beyond the query letter to the ms itself.

cagedrobin
08-18-2010, 05:18 PM
James is right. I'm sure lots of people have similar stories. My query was good enough to pull in attention. I'm at the "ed board stage" now. That's going beyond the query and into the real meat and bone of the book. Like others, I'm sure this is a very quiet make-or-break moment for the book--at least in this version. I'm pretty realistic about the stage we're at. (That's why I'm visiting the purgatory sections of AW, after all.) It's not an uncommon story hereabouts I think, but I DO love Plum's encouragement. Thanks again, Plum. You really did make my day.

Calla Lily
08-18-2010, 05:25 PM
robin, what do you write? That may have something to do with it. AW's Lisa Brackmann writes litfic, and her Awesome Agent told her it'd take awhile to sell (just over a year, in fact) because of the genre.

Miss Plum
08-18-2010, 09:43 PM
I'm curious what james means by "Agents don't reject manuscripts." Sure they do. They read your query, request your manuscript, and then either accept or reject it. We must be using these terms in different ways.

Surely, 5 agents read your manuscript and thought it was good enough to go out with, out of a mere 21 queries. That's got to indicate some good writing somewhere. But I ramble. In other parts of the Rejection and Dejection forum we envy stats like that!

Mr. Anonymous
08-18-2010, 10:07 PM
I'm curious what james means by "Agents don't reject manuscripts."

He means robin's agent isn't the one rejecting robin's manuscript-the editors are the ones doing the rejecting.

cagedrobin
08-19-2010, 12:20 AM
robin, what do you write? That may have something to do with it. AW's Lisa Brackmann writes litfic, and her Awesome Agent told her it'd take awhile to sell (just over a year, in fact) because of the genre.


I guess you'd call it literary YA.

OL
08-19-2010, 09:25 PM
I heard my name... ;)

James, once again, you oversimplify and make hard and fast rules in a place where they don't exist.

My book was a very tough sell. It is a really tough market out there. I came close at a couple other houses but there was that whole, lack of internal support/marketing wouldn't go for it/second readers squashed it/etc.

So, my wonderful publisher bought the book. The book that got rejected because other editors didn't like it/didn't think it was a good commercial bet/didn't fit their needs/what have you.

How has the book done? I am only saying what I'll say next to offer counter-evidence to James' assertions -- @m@z0n best books of 2010 so far, positive NYT review, plug in Enterta1nment W3ekly, etc.

And this would NOT have happened without my agent. No way, no how.

Agents take on clients and projects that they think they can sell. The best ones believe in their authors and their authors' work because it takes too much time and effort to invest in things to not have some passion for them.

cagedrobin
08-19-2010, 09:40 PM
So, y'all--news. I just want to say Plum may have something here. . .
I think I'm about to sign. Did I really just type that? Yes. I did. I meant to.

I love you even more, Plum.

I'm still--uh--in shock. I'll let you know more when I can--
. . . I already have lots of new questions for you folks.

Calla Lily
08-19-2010, 09:48 PM
Yay, Robin!

*waves at Lisa* :D

Miss Plum
08-19-2010, 11:22 PM
So, y'all--news. I just want to say Plum may have something here. . .
I think I'm about to sign. Did I really just type that? Yes. I did. I meant to.

I love you even more, Plum.

I'm still--uh--in shock. I'll let you know more when I can--
. . . I already have lots of new questions for you folks.

Ha, well hell, your statistics alone were pretty inarguable to me. Now LISSEN UP and have faith, cagedrobin. Your writing is good!

CONGRATULATIONS!!!

cagedrobin
08-20-2010, 03:51 AM
I'm listening, but not believing yet.
Hey, Plum and all--a round of faith for all my friends.

Miss Plum
08-20-2010, 03:56 PM
WELLL? Details, person! What's happening?

Peggy Blair
08-21-2010, 11:45 AM
I have just accepted an offer of representation (Yay!), so it was 14 months from initial queries to find an agent. When it came about, it wasn't from queries, ironically, but from a referral made as a result of a chance meeting with an established author.

No idea how long it will take to find a publisher but the agent did tell me there was no way the book will be out before the spring of 2012, given how long things take in the industry these days.

cate townsend
08-21-2010, 11:59 PM
Congrats to cagedrobin - look forward to hearing the details! And congrats to Peggy, on landing an agent.

Peggy Blair
08-22-2010, 12:39 AM
Thank you, Cate. In retrospect, I kind of feel like I've been 'blind dating,' and up to now, the agents I met just weren't into me. This one clicked instantly; I felt completely at ease talking to him, and have actually accepted his request for more revisions than I thought I'd be willing to make because I trust him. I can look back now on all the 'almosts' and feel very happy with the way things have turned out.

cate townsend
08-22-2010, 11:46 PM
Thank you, Cate. In retrospect, I kind of feel like I've been 'blind dating,' and up to now, the agents I met just weren't into me. This one clicked instantly; I felt completely at ease talking to him, and have actually accepted his request for more revisions than I thought I'd be willing to make because I trust him. I can look back now on all the 'almosts' and feel very happy with the way things have turned out.

A good sign! Best of luck with the next step.

Cricket18
08-23-2010, 12:00 AM
Congrats, cagedrobin!

Congrats, Peggy Blair!

You each deserve your own set of congratulations.

:D

Calla Lily
08-23-2010, 12:03 AM
Congrats, Peggy!

Miss Plum
08-23-2010, 12:08 AM
Thank you, Cate. In retrospect, I kind of feel like I've been 'blind dating,' and up to now, the agents I met just weren't into me. This one clicked instantly; I felt completely at ease talking to him, and have actually accepted his request for more revisions than I thought I'd be willing to make because I trust him. I can look back now on all the 'almosts' and feel very happy with the way things have turned out.
It's amazing how trapped writers feel in this regard. When you start out, you want someone -- anyone -- to rep you, but it's not unlike seeking a life partner in the want ads. The trouble is, the numbers don't favor the agent-seeking writer, so it's tempting to go with the first offer that's even vaguely plausible. I say it takes a brave writer to walk away from an offer of rep that doesn't feel right.

Congrats, Peggy, on your success!

Peggy Blair
08-23-2010, 02:14 AM
Miss Plum, you are so right! I was really nervous when I turned down the offer of representation from the first agent who came through. After all those rejections, I'm sure my friends and family thought I was nuts.

But as you say, it just didn't feel right. After our first meeting, I was pretty sure I would end up writing her book instead of my own. (In fact, the next time I ran into the agent after I had declined the offer of representation, she said "you don't want to write the book I want you to write.")

Which was true. I had my own stories to tell, and I was really uncomfortable being told where my next one should be set, who should be in it and what the plotline should be, which I guess is how that particular agent works with other clients. It works for them -- the agent is very successful and represents some great authors -- but it didn't work for me.

My new agent made it clear that his job is to make suggestions, and leave it to me to figure things out. I feel much more comfortable with that situation.

The one I turned down had not only had developed the plotline of my next three books, but told me what the opening line should be ... !

Miss Plum
08-23-2010, 08:21 AM
The one I turned down had not only had developed the plotline of my next three books, but told me what the opening line should be ... !

Yikes. Fanfic gone wild!

Little1
08-23-2010, 03:49 PM
I have just accepted an offer of representation (Yay!), so it was 14 months from initial queries to find an agent. When it came about, it wasn't from queries, ironically, but from a referral made as a result of a chance meeting with an established author.

No idea how long it will take to find a publisher but the agent did tell me there was no way the book will be out before the spring of 2012, given how long things take in the industry these days.

Congrats!!! :)

Nova Odyssey
08-26-2010, 04:39 PM
The one I turned down had not only had developed the plotline of my next three books, but told me what the opening line should be ... !

Yikes!

Congratulations, Peggy! And thanks to everyone for sharing their experiences. It is helpful for understanding the process and everyone's unique journey in this game.

Peggy Blair
08-27-2010, 01:27 AM
Thanks, everyone. Of course, now that I have an agent, I've discovered it's a bit like speed-dating for a year and then finally meeting 'Mr. Right.'

He loves me. He wants to spend time with me. He can't wait to introduce me to his parents who he's sure will love me too. But first I have to change my hair and get my teeth fixed, and oh, whatever I do, don't talk to them about my hobbies or I'll bore them.

The revisions process is already killing me.

I'm blogging at www.peggyblairwordpress.com (http://www.peggyblairwordpress.com) about all of this - hope to see you there!

Nova Odyssey
08-27-2010, 03:05 AM
I'm blogging at www.peggyblairwordpress.com (http://www.peggyblairwordpress.com) about all of this - hope to see you there!

I think you mean, http://peggyblair.wordpress.com/

Peggy Blair
08-27-2010, 03:25 AM
You are absolutely right, Nova. I didn't realize there was a difference. (Talk about being a Luddite.) Thanks for letting me know! Now I'm wondering how many people I gave the wrong address to....

Nova Odyssey
08-28-2010, 03:33 AM
it was the missing period between blair and word that makes a difference, not the http: part.
:Hammer:

Peggy Blair
08-29-2010, 01:17 AM
Got it - thanks!

Peggy Blair
09-04-2010, 06:44 PM
Miss Plum, I'm still learning how to navigate this system, but what has happened to your offer of representation for your graphic novel? Do you have an agent now?

Mine, by the way, to the poster who asked for genre was crime mystery.

Final stats: 156 rejections; 18 requests for partials; 10 requests for fulls (7 following partials, 3 as a result of referrals from other authors to their agents/publishers), 3 offers of representation (one conditional on major revisions, declined).

Miss Plum
09-06-2010, 03:45 AM
Hi, Peggy

Yes, I got an agent. My story in a nutshell is that in my first burst of queries -- about 20 -- a major agent bit. It was a Hail Mary query, and I was stunned. The agent sent me a few encouraging little notes about when they were going to get back to me, and the days turned into weeks turned into months . . .

Well, according to the wisdom of AWers, you don't stop querying just because someone is considering you, so all this time I kept querying other agents, to the tune of roughly 360 of 'em. I finally got another offer of rep and used that to nudge the major agent. Miraculously, their schedule instantly cleared! They somehow did all the reading and discussing they had needed to do lo these many months! They offered me rep two days after the nudge and I accepted. I've been living happily ever after since then. They sent me their first set of notes, I thought the notes were great, and I sent back my revisions about a week ago (they've been on vacay the past week so no word yet). I'm on a few pins and needles, but I believe based on our communications so far that we're going to work very well together.

Peggy Blair
09-06-2010, 05:18 AM
Hey, well isn't that just the best news ever! Good for you, and congratulations - I'm so, so happy for you!

Know what you mean about notes and revisions: I sent mine back two weeks ago and am on pins and needles myself as to whether they met the mark. But isn't it grand to actually be working with an agent who has the same commitment to you that you have to them?

Really fabulous news!!!!!

cagedrobin
09-16-2010, 10:48 PM
Hey, haven't been here for a while because it looked like I was about to have some excellent news. Instead I have bizarreness. Had THE good news call from my agent, and now the ed. is putting us off. What's going on? Second thoughts? Have you ever hear of such a thing? Even my agent says it's the strangest thing. . .

Cricket18
09-16-2010, 10:58 PM
*hugs* cagedrobin.

I have no clue so I'm going to let others chime in on this one.

juliatheswede
09-21-2010, 02:33 PM
Final stats: 156 rejections; 18 requests for partials; 10 requests for fulls (7 following partials, 3 as a result of referrals from other authors to their agents/publishers), 3 offers of representation (one conditional on major revisions, declined).

Peggy, thanks for posting your stats and good luck with the submissions!

Kandybar
10-14-2010, 04:49 AM
A question for those of you who have found agents - did you revise your work at any point during the submission process?

Miss Plum
10-14-2010, 05:57 AM
Kandybar, I'm an obsessive-compulsive editor, so I did continue tweaking my work but I didn't do any major revisions. I sent it to a dream agent, they sat on it four months while I tweaked, and then they offered me rep -- so I told them I had tweaked it a bit and they said Fine, send us the latest and we'll tweak that.

cagedrobin, I'm sorry I didn't see your question earlier . . . but I have no wisdom to offer. Did it get figured out?

lkp
10-14-2010, 06:10 AM
I went through a couple of rounds of revisions before my agent signed me. It was a great way for both of us to learn each others stye.

inkspatters
10-14-2010, 09:45 AM
I revised based on feedback while I was querying. It was after doing revisions and resending to my agent that I got my offer. I agree with lkp, was a great way for me to learn how she worked.

Peggy Blair
10-14-2010, 05:16 PM
Sorry, guess I haven't updated for a while :-).

As I had mentioned earlier, I got an agent, and he took the book to Frankfurt, where a Dutch publisher and a German publisher offered contracts. Fingers crossed it gets published in a language I can read someday :-).

I revised pretty much each time I got feedback that made sense to me during the querying process. Sometimes that allowed me when an agent rejected my work to ask them if they'd be interested in seeing a revised manuscript and send them one pretty quickly if they said yes.

I revised easily the manuscript 60-70 times over my year and a half of querying. With my new agent, I've revised three times but it's wasn't speculative: he offered representation at the same time as he made the suggestions he thought would improve the book.

C.T. Richmond
10-14-2010, 07:07 PM
A question for those of you who have found agents - did you revise your work at any point during the submission process?

I did a HUGE revision before we went on sub. Probably rewrote a third of my novel since I wasn't too happy with the writing!

We've been on sub now for three weeks and I imagine we will tackle some revisions if we only receive rejections... I really hope it doesn't come to that though!

Peggy Blair
10-15-2010, 01:33 AM
Interesting, C.T.

I've never heard of anyone not having to make revisions even after a book has been accepted for publication -- has anyone in this thread?

blacbird
10-15-2010, 01:50 AM
Interesting, C.T.

I've never heard of anyone not having to make revisions even after a book has been accepted for publication -- has anyone in this thread?

John Kennedy Toole, A Confederacy of Dunces. I garontee he made no revisions.

Peggy Blair
10-15-2010, 02:57 AM
I guess Larsson didn't either. But then again, he was dead.

batgirl
10-18-2010, 12:18 AM
Coming in a bit late.
Novel is fantasy, fairy-tale retelling.
I started by researching agents, concentrating on those who accepted e-queries, and picked 4 at a time, sending queries each Sunday.

Queries submitted to agents: 33
Form rejections: 18
Rejection by no response: 7
Requests for partial: 3
Request for full mss: 1
Offer to represent: 1

Timeline of that offer:
May 10 - e-query sent.
May 12 - partial requested.
May 13 - full requested on 2-week exclusive.
May 27 - phone call scheduled.
Jun 1 - phone call and offer.

Then 3 rounds of agent-directed revision, taking from August 2009 to August 2010, and the book is now on submission to editors. One rejection so far.
-Barbara

Peggy Blair
10-18-2010, 06:54 PM
I should have said, 'But then again, he was dead, too,' Blacbird :-). (I tried to send that to you, btw, and it sent before I was finished typing. Darn Blackberries!)